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[ReluctantMind]

I have two separate thoughts that relate to conversations on this thread I was in two days ago. Been thinking about them off and on. Finally got my thoughts straight and will now post them in two separate posts so people can read what they want and ignore what they want more easily.



I was talking about my confusion regarding the hate for Ash, but also expressed my own frustration with her reunion with Shepard. Had a palm to the forehead moment today that made her reactions make sense for me at least. She appears to be at the outer edge of the colony facing outward when she is put in stasis. Lilith takes off running toward the heart of the colony for several seconds before being frozen, so it makes perfect sense that the collector's might take her but not get to Ashley before being interrupted. Since she was facing outward Ash might not have had any idea who was attacking the colony even if they were right behind her. When the collectors leave she unfreezes and heads for the middle of the colony, finding Shepard. She first reacts from the heart, embracing him and praising him, but part way into the reunion realizes he actually is with Cerberus. She is torn at that point in her loyalties, but can't be sure he is still who he says he is. Aria and the Citadel Security both had to scan Shepard to confirm who he was. Miranda stated she would have included a control ship to manage Shepard's behavior. With either of these things possible Ash does a 180 and pulls away from Shepard. She won't listen for fear of trickery by a master manipulator (whether we're talking about Shepard or TIM). Only later does she have a chance to confirm everything he said with surviving colonists and surveillance. This prompts her to send a rather pitiful and embarrassed e-mail allowing us to hope for a real reunion down the road.



This has all probably been hashed through many times, but it not crystallized in this way for me until the other day. This clicks for me and at this point I am cool with how the reunion played out despite my desire for more. I look forward to the payoff I am hoping for in ME3.

[epoch_]

ReluctantMind wrote...

I have two separate thoughts that relate to conversations on this thread I was in two days ago. Been thinking about them off and on. Finally got my thoughts straight and will now post them in two separate posts so people can read what they want and ignore what they want more easily.

I was talking about my confusion regarding the hate for Ash, but also expressed my own frustration with her reunion with Shepard. Had a palm to the forehead moment today that made her reactions make sense for me at least. She appears to be at the outer edge of the colony facing outward when she is put in stasis. Lilith takes off running toward the heart of the colony for several seconds before being frozen, so it makes perfect sense that the collector's might take her but not get to Ashley before being interrupted. Since she was facing outward Ash might not have had any idea who was attacking the colony even if they were right behind her. When the collectors leave she unfreezes and heads for the middle of the colony, finding Shepard. She first reacts from the heart, embracing him and praising him, but part way into the reunion realizes he actually is with Cerberus. She is torn at that point in her loyalties, but can't be sure he is still who he says he is. Aria and the Citadel Security both had to scan Shepard to confirm who he was. Miranda stated she would have included a control ship to manage Shepard's behavior. With either of these things possible Ash does a 180 and pulls away from Shepard. She won't listen for fear of trickery by a master manipulator (whether we're talking about Shepard or TIM). Only later does she have a chance to confirm everything he said with surviving colonists and surveillance. This prompts her to send a rather pitiful and embarrassed e-mail allowing us to hope for a real reunion down the road.

This has all probably been hashed through many times, but it not crystallized in this way for me until the other day. This clicks for me and at this point I am cool with how the reunion played out despite my desire for more. I look forward to the payoff I am hoping for in ME3.

Aye, see what happens when you think about things? lol. The whole situation kind of hit me a while back as well. I was absolutely pissed with the horizon conversation. Go to the first 10 or so pages of this thread and see.

[drunken pyromaniac]

ReluctantMind wrote...

I have two separate thoughts that relate to conversations on this thread I was in two days ago. Been thinking about them off and on. Finally got my thoughts straight and will now post them in two separate posts so people can read what they want and ignore what they want more easily.

I was talking about my confusion regarding the hate for Ash, but also expressed my own frustration with her reunion with Shepard. Had a palm to the forehead moment today that made her reactions make sense for me at least. She appears to be at the outer edge of the colony facing outward when she is put in stasis. Lilith takes off running toward the heart of the colony for several seconds before being frozen, so it makes perfect sense that the collector's might take her but not get to Ashley before being interrupted. Since she was facing outward Ash might not have had any idea who was attacking the colony even if they were right behind her. When the collectors leave she unfreezes and heads for the middle of the colony, finding Shepard. She first reacts from the heart, embracing him and praising him, but part way into the reunion realizes he actually is with Cerberus. She is torn at that point in her loyalties, but can't be sure he is still who he says he is. Aria and the Citadel Security both had to scan Shepard to confirm who he was. Miranda stated she would have included a control ship to manage Shepard's behavior. With either of these things possible Ash does a 180 and pulls away from Shepard. She won't listen for fear of trickery by a master manipulator (whether we're talking about Shepard or TIM). Only later does she have a chance to confirm everything he said with surviving colonists and surveillance. This prompts her to send a rather pitiful and embarrassed e-mail allowing us to hope for a real reunion down the road.

This has all probably been hashed through many times, but it not crystallized in this way for me until the other day. This clicks for me and at this point I am cool with how the reunion played out despite my desire for more. I look forward to the payoff I am hoping for in ME3.

I too at first thought it was an incredibly poorly written scene. As I thought about it though I came to similar conclusions as you. She has just come out of stasis (of which we know nothing of) and runs into a long dead friend/lover. I can't say for certain that I would react any better.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

*Charges through the wall,roaring like Incredble Hulk*
Hey everyone*waves*

AHHHH! KILL IT, KILL IT!!!... Oh, it's just you. *waves*

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

*Charges through the wall,roaring like Incredble Hulk*
Hey everyone*waves*

AHHHH! KILL IT, KILL IT!!!... Oh, it's just you. *waves*

[ReluctantMind]

Okay, the other thing that came up was a discussion of whether or not Shepard was a Christ-like figure. I stayed out of that discussion because religion can bring out strong feelings and I wanted to think about it some more before jumping in. At this point I don't see how it can be argued that Shepard is not "Christ-like". Note I am not saying he is Christ or the second coming, but rather there are aspects of his character and experience that are specifically designed to make him Christ-like. He is generally regarded by many in the game as a larger than life, superhuman figure. He did not rise from the dead on his own, but did come back with the help of the hound that is supposed to prevent people from leaving the underworld(to get non-Christian for a moment). When Ashley Williams, who is herself a person of faith and possibly Christian, first sees Shepard she describes him to the colonist as SAVIOR of the Citadel and a GOD (not the God, but a god). An actual person might have simply produced that hyperbole, but Bioware wrote that and reviewed it. So now, having come back from the dead, Shepard(Shepherd?) gathers his twelve apostles(with the addition of Kasumi) and is flying around the galaxy beating Roman ass(the big collector beast is called a Praetorian, I think). Yeah, this stuff isn't happening in the same order as for Christ, some of this could just be coincidental, etc., and people are always allowed their opinion, but it seems really clear that there are an awful lot of things that reference or suggest a Christ-like character. Feel free to disagree.

Oops, quick edit.  There is plenty of speculation on the forums about who would be Shepard's betrayer in ME3.  Some almost think it is a given that it will occur and would further mesh with that aspect of Christ imagery.

Modifié par ReluctantMind, 11 avril 2010 - 02:21 .

[epoch_]

I make gif







I'm also working on two other more... interesting... ones.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

Haha you double posted *points and laughs*:lol:

*mumbles something profane*

[epoch_]

Its a big one!

[chem light]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Da Shadow Master wrote...

*Charges through the wall,roaring like Incredble Hulk*
Hey everyone*waves*

AHHHH! KILL IT, KILL IT!!!... Oh, it's just you. *waves*

*charges through the wall and screams, "OH YEAH!"*

Wow, there are a lot of holes in the wall in this thread.  What have you guys been doing?

[chem light]

ReluctantMind wrote...

Okay, the other thing that came up was a discussion of whether or not Shepard was a Christ-like figure. I stayed out of that discussion because religion can bring out strong feelings and I wanted to think about it some more before jumping in. At this point I don't see how it can be argued that Shepard is not "Christ-like". Note I am not saying he is Christ or the second coming, but rather there are aspects of his character and experience that are specifically designed to make him Christ-like. He is generally regarded by many in the game as a larger than life, superhuman figure. He did not rise from the dead on his own, but did come back with the help of the hound that is supposed to prevent people from leaving the underworld(to get non-Christian for a moment). When Ashley Williams, who is herself a person of faith and possibly Christian, first sees Shepard she describes him to the colonist as SAVIOR of the Citadel and a GOD (not the God, but a god). An actual person might have simply produced that hyperbole, but Bioware wrote that and reviewed it. So now, having come back from the dead, Shepard(Shepherd?) gathers his twelve apostles(with the addition of Kasumi) and is flying around the galaxy beating Roman ass(the big collector beast is called a Praetorian, I think). Yeah, this stuff isn't happening in the same order as for Christ, some of this could just be coincidental, etc., and people are always allowed their opinion, but it seems really clear that there are an awful lot of things that reference or suggest a Christ-like character. Feel free to disagree.

Oops, quick edit.  There is plenty of speculation on the forums about who would be Shepard's betrayer in ME3.  Some almost think it is a given that it will occur and would further mesh with that aspect of Christ imagery.

If the betrayer is their love interest I will hurt someone...

[Lord Zeuss]

ReluctantMind wrote...

Okay, the other thing that came up was a discussion of whether or not Shepard was a Christ-like figure. I stayed out of that discussion because religion can bring out strong feelings and I wanted to think about it some more before jumping in. At this point I don't see how it can be argued that Shepard is not "Christ-like". Note I am not saying he is Christ or the second coming, but rather there are aspects of his character and experience that are specifically designed to make him Christ-like. He is generally regarded by many in the game as a larger than life, superhuman figure. He did not rise from the dead on his own, but did come back with the help of the hound that is supposed to prevent people from leaving the underworld(to get non-Christian for a moment). When Ashley Williams, who is herself a person of faith and possibly Christian, first sees Shepard she describes him to the colonist as SAVIOR of the Citadel and a GOD (not the God, but a god). An actual person might have simply produced that hyperbole, but Bioware wrote that and reviewed it. So now, having come back from the dead, Shepard(Shepherd?) gathers his twelve apostles(with the addition of Kasumi) and is flying around the galaxy beating Roman ass(the big collector beast is called a Praetorian, I think). Yeah, this stuff isn't happening in the same order as for Christ, some of this could just be coincidental, etc., and people are always allowed their opinion, but it seems really clear that there are an awful lot of things that reference or suggest a Christ-like character. Feel free to disagree.

Oops, quick edit.  There is plenty of speculation on the forums about who would be Shepard's betrayer in ME3.  Some almost think it is a given that it will occur and would further mesh with that aspect of Christ imagery.

I like to see this, it means there was some serious thinking that got done and that is always a good thing. Kudos to you, man!

[Lord Zeuss]

chem light wrote...

ReluctantMind wrote...

Okay, the other thing that came up was a discussion of whether or not Shepard was a Christ-like figure. I stayed out of that discussion because religion can bring out strong feelings and I wanted to think about it some more before jumping in. At this point I don't see how it can be argued that Shepard is not "Christ-like". Note I am not saying he is Christ or the second coming, but rather there are aspects of his character and experience that are specifically designed to make him Christ-like. He is generally regarded by many in the game as a larger than life, superhuman figure. He did not rise from the dead on his own, but did come back with the help of the hound that is supposed to prevent people from leaving the underworld(to get non-Christian for a moment). When Ashley Williams, who is herself a person of faith and possibly Christian, first sees Shepard she describes him to the colonist as SAVIOR of the Citadel and a GOD (not the God, but a god). An actual person might have simply produced that hyperbole, but Bioware wrote that and reviewed it. So now, having come back from the dead, Shepard(Shepherd?) gathers his twelve apostles(with the addition of Kasumi) and is flying around the galaxy beating Roman ass(the big collector beast is called a Praetorian, I think). Yeah, this stuff isn't happening in the same order as for Christ, some of this could just be coincidental, etc., and people are always allowed their opinion, but it seems really clear that there are an awful lot of things that reference or suggest a Christ-like character. Feel free to disagree.

Oops, quick edit.  There is plenty of speculation on the forums about who would be Shepard's betrayer in ME3.  Some almost think it is a given that it will occur and would further mesh with that aspect of Christ imagery.

If the betrayer is their love interest I will hurt someone...

Shepard has already been betrayed.

[chem light]

OH LIARA!

[chem light]

See it was a possible love interest, now I have to hurt someone!

[wulf3n]

chem light wrote...
If the betrayer is their love interest I will hurt someone...

if they are following the hole bible theme, then it wouldn't be your love interest.

[chem light]

Okay now I don't know if I have to hurt someone or not...

[drunken pyromaniac]

chem light wrote...

*charges through the wall and screams, "OH YEAH!"*

Wow, there are a lot of holes in the wall in this thread.  What have you guys been doing?

Shadow is once again throwing a fit and destroying things. Don't mind him, he does that sometimes.

[ReluctantMind]

I think it is debatable whether Liara turning Shepard over to Cerberus was a betrayal. I think there could be a way worse betrayal coming.

[Lord Zeuss]

chem light wrote...

See it was a possible love interest, now I have to hurt someone!

Since when is Ambassador Udina a possible love interest?

[chem light]

Hey Ash, fans....have a question...the guy that remade the pic of Ash on Shepard's desk...did he happen to do a Kai Kai version, someone was planning it over there and wanted to make sure we didn't duplicate efforts.