34932 réponses à ce sujet

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...


What would you say if I told you that I didn't even know what the hell
I was talking about ?:lol:

I wouldn't be surprised.

[aprilia1k]

epoch_ wrote...

I don't expect your opinion to change right away, mine sure didn't. Or it might not change at all, I really don't care all that much. This is all just stuff to think about. I praise BioWare for writing a scenario which wasn't as black and white as it initially appears to be. I would like to point out, they did something similar with liara as well.

Anyways, I have a stats exam tomorrow, so I'm going to sleep. Goodnight all.

Did something similar with Liara?  She is the one that gave Shepard to Cerbrus, right?  She knew all about his affiliation with Cerbrus before he ever arrived at Illium, and she HUGS him affectionately when she sees him.  And she basically loves and trusts her very dear old friend.  Umm... how is that similar?  

[aprilia1k]

yfhfrg wrote...

Aprila, looking at it from Ash's perspective, she doesn't know what happened with shep. Her initial impression is that he blew her off and started working for cerberus (which, we know from ME1 just what they're capable of). We know from shep's pov that he had no choice, but she doesn't. In the space of only a few minutes she has to take in that the man she loved is still alive and working for a terrorist group. Yes, he was resurrected only recently and he's still the same person more or less, but it's not hard to see how all of this could be a bit overwhelming. She handles it badly, but Shepard does too. The way BW wrote it, neither character comes across well. I for one liked the Horizon encounter for exactly that reason, and think all the negative reactions it drew means BW hit the notes they were going for pretty well all in all.

Well said -but I don't agree about BW hitting the notes right.  Unless they were going for (in my case, and at least one or two others) "I never want to meet up with that Ashley character"  She is shallow and didn't really love Shepard, so if she shows up in ME3 I will let her die or just ignore her and instead hang with my REAL (lol) friends.     So, again - well said, and I think I see your point but don't agree with the notion that BW did it right because of the negative reactions.  My reaction is that they need to do a much better job with their scripts in the future -- cuz I judge that character, based on their writing of her, to be not a good friend -- not someone the protagonist can count on.. .etc... give me the puppy-dog hero-worship of Tali any day (at least she knows what's what as far as Shepard's real motives -- at least when I am driving     

[drunken pyromaniac]

aprilia1k wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

I don't expect your opinion to change right away, mine sure didn't. Or it might not change at all, I really don't care all that much. This is all just stuff to think about. I praise BioWare for writing a scenario which wasn't as black and white as it initially appears to be. I would like to point out, they did something similar with liara as well.

Anyways, I have a stats exam tomorrow, so I'm going to sleep. Goodnight all.

Did something similar with Liara?  She is the one that gave Shepard to Cerbrus, right?  She knew all about his affiliation with Cerbrus before he ever arrived at Illium, and she HUGS him affectionately when she sees him.  And she basically loves and trusts her very dear old friend.  Umm... how is that similar?  

Liara clearly turns away after the kiss and seems to regret it. Bioware screwed the ME1 LIs.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 16 avril 2010 - 05:07 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...


Well....Aww now that hurt lol:crying:

I'm sorry.

[drunken pyromaniac]

aprilia1k wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...

Aprila, looking at it from Ash's perspective, she doesn't know what happened with shep. Her initial impression is that he blew her off and started working for cerberus (which, we know from ME1 just what they're capable of). We know from shep's pov that he had no choice, but she doesn't. In the space of only a few minutes she has to take in that the man she loved is still alive and working for a terrorist group. Yes, he was resurrected only recently and he's still the same person more or less, but it's not hard to see how all of this could be a bit overwhelming. She handles it badly, but Shepard does too. The way BW wrote it, neither character comes across well. I for one liked the Horizon encounter for exactly that reason, and think all the negative reactions it drew means BW hit the notes they were going for pretty well all in all.

Well said -but I don't agree about BW hitting the notes right.  Unless they were going for (in my case, and at least one or two others) "I never want to meet up with that Ashley character"  She is shallow and didn't really love Shepard, so if she shows up in ME3 I will let her die or just ignore her and instead hang with my REAL (lol) friends.     So, again - well said, and I think I see your point but don't agree with the notion that BW did it right because of the negative reactions.  My reaction is that they need to do a much better job with their scripts in the future -- cuz I judge that character, based on their writing of her, to be not a good friend -- not someone the protagonist can count on.. .etc... give me the puppy-dog hero-worship of Tali any day (at least she knows what's what as far as Shepard's real motives -- at least when I am driving     

In the real world, people don't trust unconditionally. It just doesn't work like that.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...



I'm sorry won't fix it *pouts*<_<

*catches on*
Oh, well.

[drunken pyromaniac]

@aprilia

Sorry, I'm not writing longer replys. I'm just working on something.

[aprilia1k]

epoch_ wrote...

The only reason Tali follows you is because she has some serious hero worship of shepard going on.

I have - HAVE to reply to point out that you may be biased (for whatever reason) --- I find that, on these forums, the Tali-lovers dis' the Miranda and Ashley devotees, the Miranda fans dis' the Tali and Ashl....  etc...

Here's my non-Ashley, non-Tali, non-Miranda (I'm gay... no, actually I like Ashley's looks the most. looks)...  again, my non-biased opinion of what you just said about Tali.

If Tali has serious, over-the-top, hero-worship of Shepard, well --- she's hardly alone, right?  The whole world, at least the pro-good-guys world, worships Shep.  THAT said --

Are you asserting that Tali's opinion of Shepard is clouded by her feelings?  But -- basically, she is RIGHT.  I mean, isn't she?  When I am playing, Shepard the PARAGON is everything that Tali thinks he is pretty much.  So -- regardless of her reasons, Tali is RIGHT about Shepard -- her instincts about his (or her) motives and character are SPOT ON --- he is the ultimate GOOD GUY.  So --- Who is more defensable if you are not an Ashley, or Tali, or Miranda devotee?  Well -- as I am not any of those --- i must say that Tali is right about Shepard ---  she knows him better than Ashley I guess?  Or, well....  more words.. words words words words...    nothing changes.

I would not only be a fan of Ashley's FORM, I would be a fan of her self - her being -- if she proved to be the good friend she was supposed to have been.  THEN, I would be an Ashley-devotee.  Instead -- I stand alone.

;-)

Thanks, I'm here Thursday and Monday till May.   (joke)  (not a good one, no. )

[drunken pyromaniac]

aprilia1k wrote...


I have - HAVE to reply to point out that you may be biased (for whatever reason) --- I find that, on these forums, the Tali-lovers dis' the Miranda and Ashley devotees, the Miranda fans dis' the Tali and Ashl....  etc...

Here's my non-Ashley, non-Tali, non-Miranda (I'm gay... no, actually I like Ashley's looks the most. looks)...  again, my non-biased opinion of what you just said about Tali.

If Tali has serious, over-the-top, hero-worship of Shepard, well --- she's hardly alone, right?  The whole world, at least the pro-good-guys world, worships Shep.  THAT said --

Are you asserting that Tali's opinion of Shepard is clouded by her feelings?  But -- basically, she is RIGHT.  I mean, isn't she?  When I am playing, Shepard the PARAGON is everything that Tali thinks he is pretty much.  So -- regardless of her reasons, Tali is RIGHT about Shepard -- her instincts about his (or her) motives and character are SPOT ON --- he is the ultimate GOOD GUY.  So --- Who is more defensable if you are not an Ashley, or Tali, or Miranda devotee?  Well -- as I am not any of those --- i must say that Tali is right about Shepard ---  she knows him better than Ashley I guess?  Or, well....  more words.. words words words words...    nothing changes.

I would not only be a fan of Ashley's FORM, I would be a fan of her self - her being -- if she proved to be the good friend she was supposed to have been.  THEN, I would be an Ashley-devotee.  Instead -- I stand alone.

;-)

Thanks, I'm here Thursday and Monday till May.   (joke)  (not a good one, no. )

I must point out something, something I've said before. Real people do not trust unconditionally, some may, most don't. I admit I may be biased, I've been burned by people claiming to be my friend a lot. We like Ashley because she has an mind and isn't afraid to speak it. She even sends an e-mail apologizing for her behavior! I understand where you're coming from but with respect, you're wrong.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...


Damnit I almost had him believing me:pinched:

You win some, you lose some.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...


One of life's many lessons I guess^_^

True, true.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...


Hey did you kill Xtreme? I haven't seen him since that argument we had the other day lol.

Nooooooooooo. *nudges body back under floorboards*

[aprilia1k]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

aprilia1k wrote...


I have - HAVE to reply to point out that you may be biased (for whatever reason) --- I find that, on these forums, the Tali-lovers dis' the Miranda and Ashley devotees, the Miranda fans dis' the Tali and Ashl....  etc...

Here's my non-Ashley, non-Tali, non-Miranda (I'm gay... no, actually I like Ashley's looks the most. looks)...  again, my non-biased opinion of what you just said about Tali.

If Tali has serious, over-the-top, hero-worship of Shepard, well --- she's hardly alone, right?  The whole world, at least the pro-good-guys world, worships Shep.  THAT said --

Are you asserting that Tali's opinion of Shepard is clouded by her feelings?  But -- basically, she is RIGHT.  I mean, isn't she?  When I am playing, Shepard the PARAGON is everything that Tali thinks he is pretty much.  So -- regardless of her reasons, Tali is RIGHT about Shepard -- her instincts about his (or her) motives and character are SPOT ON --- he is the ultimate GOOD GUY.  So --- Who is more defensable if you are not an Ashley, or Tali, or Miranda devotee?  Well -- as I am not any of those --- i must say that Tali is right about Shepard ---  she knows him better than Ashley I guess?  Or, well....  more words.. words words words words...    nothing changes.

I would not only be a fan of Ashley's FORM, I would be a fan of her self - her being -- if she proved to be the good friend she was supposed to have been.  THEN, I would be an Ashley-devotee.  Instead -- I stand alone.

;-)

Thanks, I'm here Thursday and Monday till May.   (joke)  (not a good one, no. )

I must point out something, something I've said before. Real people do not trust unconditionally, some may, most don't. I admit I may be biased, I've been burned by people claiming to be my friend a lot. We like Ashley because she has an mind and isn't afraid to speak it. She even sends an e-mail apologizing for her behavior! I understand where you're coming from but with respect, you're wrong.

YOU HAD MY RESPECT UNTIL... you closed with ", you're wrong".    

Frankly - It would seem at the very least that these are opinions and therefore there really is no right or wrong.    What are you saying I am wrong about?  Is Tali's opinion of Shepard correct?  In my game, it IS very much -- total PARAGON... would save little kittens before storming off to get the bad guys... Tali knows me -- that is the feeling at least...  totally trusting beyond belief?  How does she treat Jacob when first she boards Normandy?  She basically says "Don't talk to me, Cerbrus... I'm here because of Shepard and in spite of you...".... paraphrase, I must add.  

I am not saying Ashley should trust implicitly without any thought in her mind..  Of course not.  And any QUESTIONING of "what the hell--- Cerbrus?"  is Totally understandable. .   Hell, Tali says it too at first, and that's , well, Tali.   I am definitely not saying that Ashley should drop the Alliance (desert) and go off with Shepard.

I am saying she basically said --- you're with Cerbrus now -- so you have totally lost it...  How could you???   and listens to NO reasoning whatsoever...   even the lame stuff Shepard does have to say ---  he says 'You know me Ash"... he says "I'm not with Cerbrus"   he says " The Alliance has abandoned these colonies (true whether you agree with there reasons or not)"....  and she says -- and I paraphrase folks, but it's the feeling I got anyway - she says "regardless of what you have done in the past, or who I knew you to be, or what is right here in front of my eyes (the SAME SHIP that blasted her and the Normandy to pieces 2 years ago)..."   regardless of what you say ---  you have lost it and I don't respect you anymore --- SEE YA.

That's my opinion.  And I am not wrong.  So nyah nyah nyah

and Ashley does have a very fine ass.  CGI at it's most brilliant.  One hot latina chica.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Da Shadow Master wrote...


Hey did you kill Xtreme? I haven't seen him since that argument we had the other day lol.

Nooooooooooo. *nudges body back under floorboards*

Hmmmmm I don't know if I should approve of this or not.
Oh what the hell am I thinking. I APPROVE!!!

I knew you would.

[drunken pyromaniac]

aprilia1k wrote...


YOU HAD MY RESPECT UNTIL... you closed with ", you're wrong".    

Frankly - It would seem at the very least that these are opinions and therefore there really is no right or wrong.    What are you saying I am wrong about?  Is Tali's opinion of Shepard correct?  In my game, it IS very much -- total PARAGON... would save little kittens before storming off to get the bad guys... Tali knows me -- that is the feeling at least...  totally trusting beyond belief?  How does she treat Jacob when first she boards Normandy?  She basically says "Don't talk to me, Cerbrus... I'm here because of Shepard and in spite of you...".... paraphrase, I must add.  

Fair enough, you must remember Tali is in and Ashley is out for one eason. plot device.

I am not saying Ashley should trust implicitly without any thought in her mind..  Of course not.  And any QUESTIONING of "what the hell--- Cerbrus?"  is Totally understandable. .   Hell, Tali says it too at first, and that's , well, Tali.   I am definitely not saying that Ashley should drop the Alliance (desert) and go off with Shepard.

Good.

I am saying she basically said --- you're with Cerbrus now -- so you have totally lost it...  How could you???   and listens to NO reasoning whatsoever...   even the lame stuff Shepard does have to say ---  he says 'You know me Ash"... he says "I'm not with Cerbrus"   he says " The Alliance has abandoned these colonies (true whether you agree with there reasons or not)"....  and she says -- and I paraphrase folks, but it's the feeling I got anyway - she says "regardless of what you have done in the past, or who I knew you to be, or what is right here in front of my eyes (the SAME SHIP that blasted her and the Normandy to pieces 2 years ago)..."   regardless of what you say ---  you have lost it and I don't respect you anymore --- SEE YA.

That's my opinion.  And I am not wrong.  So nyah nyah nyah

and Ashley does have a very fine ass.  CGI at it's most brilliant.  One hot latina chica.

She doesn't join due to plot device when it comes down to it. But imagine, you are almost killed or abducted by horrific aliens, see half your charges whisked off to God knows where, and finally encounter your dead lover. Can you honestly say you would react better? There is only so much a person can take. I view the Horizon enconter as her lashing out after a particulary bad day.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 16 avril 2010 - 05:54 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

This is fun...I can't stop laughing.

Well, I'm glad your having fun. Feel free to help anytime, you cretin! He writes a ton everytime!

[aprilia1k]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

aprilia1k wrote...


YOU HAD MY RESPECT UNTIL... you closed with ", you're wrong".    

Frankly - It would seem at the very least that these are opinions and therefore there really is no right or wrong.    What are you saying I am wrong about?  Is Tali's opinion of Shepard correct?  In my game, it IS very much -- total PARAGON... would save little kittens before storming off to get the bad guys... Tali knows me -- that is the feeling at least...  totally trusting beyond belief?  How does she treat Jacob when first she boards Normandy?  She basically says "Don't talk to me, Cerbrus... I'm here because of Shepard and in spite of you...".... paraphrase, I must add.  

Fair enough, you must remember Tali is in and Ashley is out for one eason. plot device.

I am not saying Ashley should trust implicitly without any thought in her mind..  Of course not.  And any QUESTIONING of "what the hell--- Cerbrus?"  is Totally understandable. .   Hell, Tali says it too at first, and that's , well, Tali.   I am definitely not saying that Ashley should drop the Alliance (desert) and go off with Shepard.

Good.

I am saying she basically said --- you're with Cerbrus now -- so you have totally lost it...  How could you???   and listens to NO reasoning whatsoever...   even the lame stuff Shepard does have to say ---  he says 'You know me Ash"... he says "I'm not with Cerbrus"   he says " The Alliance has abandoned these colonies (true whether you agree with there reasons or not)"....  and she says -- and I paraphrase folks, but it's the feeling I got anyway - she says "regardless of what you have done in the past, or who I knew you to be, or what is right here in front of my eyes (the SAME SHIP that blasted her and the Normandy to pieces 2 years ago)..."   regardless of what you say ---  you have lost it and I don't respect you anymore --- SEE YA.

That's my opinion.  And I am not wrong.  So nyah nyah nyah

and Ashley does have a very fine ass.  CGI at it's most brilliant.  One hot latina chica.

She doesn't join due to plot device when it comes down to it. But imagine, you are almost killed or abducted by horrific aliens, see half your charges whisked off to God knows where, and finally encounter your dead lover. Can you honestly say you would react better? There is only so much a person can take. I view the Horizon enconter as her lashing out after a particulary bad day.

You may be right.  If it is just a lashing out after a bad day -- then it's sad, because it's their last encounter (at least so far) and their first after his death 2 years ago....   I'm Shepard -- I am HAPPY to see the closest, most devoted friend I ever had (I was led to believe anyway - through plot devices   --- and she tells me she doesn't trust me (hey, it's not like they just met, btw.  She should trust him, I say, based upon her experience with him --- with Shepard.  ) the fact that she sends an email apology, imho, supports my case...  she felt she had something to apologize for.  It is unfortunate that I, for whatever reason -- NEVER got that email, and never saw it or heard of it until today--- a further explanation I would hope, for my disappointment in the plot and it's devices ....    

I really felt that, after the Liara encounter on Illium, that she loved and trusted her old friend ---  perhaps you disagree -- but it seems to me that Liara is a friend for life and I (Shepard) feel damn lucky to have a friend like her.  I felt like... man....  not much of a friend... after my encounter with Ash on Horizon.  I still feel that way. Yeah - she had a bad day.  The writing/plot device/etc...  basically did not inject intrigue for me --- it simply subtracted or detracted or sucked... a good reunion moment.  Even after her tirade.... when she walked away -- as if to say "Have a good look at this butt... it is the last time you are going to see it".... and hell...... my heart just 'bout broke.  

:-)

Thanks for the exchanges

Why would I not get the Ashley letter btw... is there some action that must be taken?  When does it happen?