107 réponses à ce sujet

[Xx RTEK xX]

AGogley wrote...

Zimmy42 wrote...

AGogley wrote...

It wasn't an oversite. Christina Norman said that she questioned the helmet issue before the game shipped. The lead artist said they made the armor this way intentionally because it had to be made that way to achieve the look they wanted. Additionally they gave the helmets talking lights.

The developers/lead artists made an error in judgement, IMHO. They were more concerned about minor detail in how the armor looked over how it looked to have Shephard getting kissed on the helmet of drinking through his visor.

So it was the lead artists call? Makes me wonder how much he played it...

Don't get me wrong, I have much respect for whoever did the art design it was amazing. But this is seriously a case where aesthetics are conflicting with practicality for most people.

I just know that Christina Norman, one of the moderators, said she questioned this very issue before the game shipped.  In conversations with the lead artist, it was explained to her that they wanted a certain cohesive look to the armor that for technical reasons, they could not achieve without making the armor one piece, helmet non-removable..  Ms. Norman went on to say that it's an obvious design element since the helmet lights turn on and off when Shephard talks.

I agree with you.  The armor is awesome.  But I'm not sure how much more awesome it is than if they did it as part of the single piece armor system like the N7.  I would personally prefer some compromise, or in the alternative, some way to make my customizeable armor as powerful as the downloadable armor (so I wouldn't need it).

Maybe I'm not comprehending their explaination, but if the armour is all one piece, and that is why they removed the toggle feature, then what about when you don't have a helmet on............seems like there are 2 seperate pieces. One model of Shepard with armour and no helmet, and one model of Shepard with a helmet with the same armour still on. So how does their explaination make any sense.

Are they talking about armour that is not the N7 standard issue armour that you cannot remove the helmet AT ALL? or are they talking about all the armour in the game that their reason for removing the toggable helmets because they wanted to make it all one piece?

I'm confused. I haven't unlocked any armour but the N7 upgrades so that is the only armour I have.

If what I think you guys are saying is that any armour but the N7 will not allow us to remove the helmet AT ALL, then WOW, and HOLY ****ING **** are the devs at Bioware something else...........

Modifié par Xx RTEK xX, 05 février 2010 - 07:02 .

[cerberus1701]

T1l wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

IMO Bioware messed up on this, and won't even admit it.

To be fair, Christina Norman was fairly open about it on launch day (or just after) when the majority of people expressed how disappointed they were with this decision. She laid it down very clearly that this was the art departments’ decision - the full suits of armour are designed from the ground up to be full sets of armour; helmet included.

They do not see this as an issue. It is intended.

Lets hope they are togglable in ME3.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what the art department gained by creating such a break in the experience for the player.

It's not the art department's game. They have a say, a huge one obviously. But the point is to create a product consumers want?

Do consumers want the product? (DLC armor) Clearly not, since most don't use it. Would there have been pre-order excitement for it at the level there was if they said, "Oh, by the way...." last year?

And on a purely aesthetic note, they simply don't look that much better than the stock pieces.

But, whatever.

Modifié par cerberus1701, 05 février 2010 - 07:10 .

[Bio Addict]

Off topic but I feel compeled to inform everyone that Christina Norman is a guy. A few of you guys seem a little confused about that.

[BramAlam12345]

Yeah, as a DA player, I was stoked about my Blood Dragon Armor in ME2. But I just can't do it. A big part of the allure of ME to me is the conversations and the cinematography and expressions within those conversations. The helmet ruins it. But, oh well. I do like that the standard armor is so customizable. I like it alot, actually.

[T1l]

cerberus1701 wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what the art department gained by creating such a break in the experience for the player.

It's not the art department's game. They have a say, a huge one obviously. But the point is to create a product consumers want?

Do consumer's want the product? (DLC armor) Clearly not, since most don't use it.

And on a purly aesthetic note, they simply don't look that much better than the stock pieces.

But, whatever.

Hey now, don't shoot the messenger, that's just the "official" response we have to this particular topic; and I guess we should be thankful we have that. At least someone from Bioware has spoken directly to the art department and has been kind enough to clarify that this is indeed the way things are meant to be. We're not left in the dark and the answer isn't ambiguous; it's not what we wanted to hear, but at least we know where we stand.

[bjdbwea]

AGogley wrote...

I just know that Christina Norman, one of the moderators, said she questioned this very issue before the game shipped.  In conversations with the lead artist, it was explained to her that they wanted a certain cohesive look to the armor that for technical reasons, they could not achieve without making the armor one piece, helmet non-removable..  Ms. Norman went on to say that it's an obvious design element since the helmet lights turn on and off when Shephard talks.

I don't buy it. They're artists, professionals, and they can't come up with a solution to a problem such as this? Come on. For me, this is just another point on the list of oversights in ME 2, most of them I'd blame on time constraints. I for one simply can't use either of the DLC armors I have for this reason. If only the game supported mods, most of these problems could be fixed by the community (like with DA).

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 février 2010 - 07:12 .

[Xx RTEK xX]

What I dont understand is how in the world does anyone at Bioware not have the common sense to see that this would be an issue. If you can't remove the helmet on armour, then how the hell did Shepard put the armour on to begin with? It's just a basic simple question that I would ask if I was a developer, but I'm not, I'm just a gamer.

[Merlanni]

Replacing armour Is an essential part of a RPG, like shopping at vendors. This is a disgrace.

A problem is that this stuff never makes it to reviewscores.  It gets overhyped results like 9,6.

[T1l]

This was Christina Normans' actual comment for those of you who missed it.

"This is not a bug, so it can't be "patched" to change the behavior."

And this was the follow up.

Christina Norman wrote...


As I stated in the other thread on helmets, the armors are behaving correctly, and this is not an issue that can be patched.

I totally get why some players would want to remove the helmets, but that's just not how they were designed to work. The armor is a single piece of art, so removing the helmet is not possible. Sorry!

There's nothing left to add.

Modifié par T1l, 05 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[Xx RTEK xX]

Of course it is possible.



If the N7 armour allows you to go with or with out a helmet, then they should have thought about that with the DLC armour and made 2 different models of it. One with a helmet, and one without. It sounds to me like the developers were just lazy and didn't want to have to make 2 different models and have to incorporate those models into all the cut scenes and conversations.



My question is, are they going to be lazy with future DLC, or are they going to do what gamers want and make the helmets removeable?

[T1l]

How on earth is anyone here meant to answer that question, RTEK?

[bjdbwea]

"Not possible".  Of course it'd be. If you care enough to MAKE it so. Sure, you can cut all these little details out and still have a good game, but what happened to going the extra mile for your customers?

[Xx RTEK xX]

It is either they are lazy, or they lack common sense. It's one or the other.

[T1l]

The official word is "Sorry, no". If you want, you can PM Christina Norman and ask her directly.



You can either deal with it, accept it, and move on - or not. Either way. Up to you.

[cerberus1701]

T1l wrote...

This was Christina Normans' actual comment for those of you who missed it.

"This is not a bug, so it can't be "patched" to change the behavior."

And this was the follow up.

Christina Norman wrote...


As I stated in the other thread on helmets, the armors are behaving correctly, and this is not an issue that can be patched.

I totally get why some players would want to remove the helmets, but that's just not how they were designed to work. The armor is a single piece of art, so removing the helmet is not possible. Sorry!

There's nothing left to add.

And this is a dodge of the issue. No one's questioning that they work correctly. Just that they were designed poorly. With no regard whatsoever to the overall gameplay experience. They let the art department play fanboy with no regard to the consumers that they wanted the money for it from.

Modifié par cerberus1701, 05 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[Xx RTEK xX]

T1l wrote...

How on earth is anyone here meant to answer that question, RTEK?

I'm not asking you, I'm asking the developers.

Here........

Dear Bioware Developers,

In the future DLC armour, if you guys/gals plan to create/release, will the helmets on those particular DLC armour sets be removeable?

We gamers want the option to remove our helmets. We wish, and we encourage you guys/gals at Bioware to consider our request and see to it that any future DLC armour that Bioware creates/release, will have the ability to remove the helmet, or we shall make you aware that those of us who know about the current inability to remove the helmets on the current DLC armour, will refuse to purchase any future DLC armour. Not only that, but we will spread the word to every other gamer we know not to waste their money on any DLC for Mass Effect 2 that is of in game armour if we cannot remove the helmets.

Sincerely,
Xx RTEK xX
And any other gamer who feels the same way as I do.

[hard-case]

bjdbwea wrote...

"Not possible".  Of course it'd be. If you care enough to MAKE it so. Sure, you can cut all these little details out and still have a good game, but what happened to going the extra mile for your customers?

I think it needs to be considered within reason. Is it possible to fix? Yes absolutely. But, considering what has been said by the developers, it would require either some heavy modifications to their rendering routines with regards to the armor, or a complete redesign of the DLC armors.

Neither of those options are going to be quick, easy, or cheap. In one instance, you're talking about doing some level of internal code modification that's going to be both tricky and require some SERIOUS regression testing and QA. In the other, you're talking about building the designs from scratch again, with it's own level of testing and QA. Futhermore, their resources (not considering ones that have been farmed out to newer projects) are probably rather busy working on both patching and DLC, which both take a considerably higher priority that an issue of making helmets disappear.

The simple fact is, as a business decision, it is neither cost nor resource effective to screw with both the schedule and budget for an issue that would be classified as trivial. It sucks, but at the same time I can't help but agree with Bioware's decision. I just hope that, were Bioware planning to offer additional armor for sale/download via the Cerberus network that they take the issue into consideration, as I'd be willing to bet addition "one piece" armor sets will not be very well received by the community.

[Zlarm]

Somehow I doubt they'll fix it . They still haven't even acknowledged that its a problem yet. Quite disappointing really.

[AGogley]

Here is what Christina Norman told me:

AGogley wrote...

Christina,

Are you saying that Bioware designed the pieces to be like that, including during conversation? I guess we are all confused because that is obviously not how it was during Dragon Age (which is what we based our pregame expectations on).

Norman's response:  "Yes. In fact you can tell there were designed that way because they all have indicator lights that flash while you speak on the helmets. I looked into this before ship because I also wanted a toggle helmet option, but after talking with the lead character artist I understood the armors were implemented as a single piece for a variety of technical and art reasons. So I understand where you guys are coming from, but this is the behavior of our single-piece armors."


So there is the explanation I received.  I'd like to hear the specifics of the technical and art reasons myself, but I have yet to hear anything which satisfies me in this regard.



 

[AGogley]

That said, they could fix the problem for me by simply giving me N7 armor with the same bonuses as the dragon age armor. Then I'd be happy.

[Zackariahas]

Xx RTEK xX wrote...



Dear Bioware Developers,

In the future DLC armour, if you guys/gals plan to create/release, will the helmets on those particular DLC armour sets be removeable?

We gamers want the option to remove our helmets. We wish, and we encourage you guys/gals at Bioware to consider our request and see to it that any future DLC armour that Bioware creates/release, will have the ability to remove the helmet, or we shall make you aware that those of us who know about the current inability to remove the helmets on the current DLC armour, will refuse to purchase any future DLC armour. Not only that, but we will spread the word to every other gamer we know not to waste their money on any DLC for Mass Effect 2 that is of in game armour if we cannot remove the helmets.

Sincerely,
Xx RTEK xX
And any other gamer who feels the same way as I do.

I completely agree with you. If they put out DLC you have to pay for and not "change" this "Design choice", I wouldn't buy it. I would rather have them "Add" (not fix, since its not a bug, but just a bad design oversight) a toggle option then them working on a new set of DLC.

Also saying "it ain't broke, don't fix it" makes as much sense as going to buy a new, top of the line sports car but it just has bare steel frame  seats. Yeah you can still drive it but its going to hurt like hell and wreck the experience

And its not that Im just whining or something, ME2 is my sixth favorite rpg of all time. And changing it so the game includes this feature would make it even better.

Thank you for your time and I hope that Biwoware reads this and sees its important to alot of people.

Modifié par Zackariahas, 06 février 2010 - 03:08 .

[Daveastation]

I doubt you see any further resolution on this "issue" beyond having toggled helmets return to ME3.

[Colonel_Temp]

I'd hope not. They now have a chance to take in criticisms and actually adress them without having to wait for a sequal. It'd be a shame if they didn't use it.

[GrimmjawJin]

I don't even use those DLC armors anymore. I'd like to look at my character atleast during the cutscenes if not during gameplay. If this design was intended then I must say it was a fault on their part.

[EG NeoMorph]

What should have happened...



Liara goes to kiss shep and goes... Errr... and just hugs him.

When you go to drink the glass goes *DINK!* on the helmet and one of your teammates should say something like "Guess you wore the wrong set of armour if you wanted a drink Shepard".



It would have kept the immersion, gave you a laugh, and got around the fact that you cannot remove the helmet. Job done!



The biggest PITA when you want to remove the N7 helmet is that you have to go back aboard the Normandy, leave the planet, exit galaxy view, get in the elevator and go to your room, remove your helmet, get back in the elevator and go to CIC, enter galaxy view, go back to the planet, and finally land... JUST to take you bloody helmet off. And this is nothing to do with the DLC helmet being non-removable.



In ME1 it's... hit start button, toggle helmet, exit. Job done.



They really should have included the toggle for the N7 armour at the very LEAST!