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Sex and Nudity


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#226
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*

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Impresario wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

When the hell hasn't Shep sprouted bad pick up lines? :huh: I want to know the option because M!Shep is cheezy as hell.

I agree, but is it intentional (as in they're trying to be campy) or are they just taking the easy way out?  I don't know enough about the mass effect universe to answer that.  Aren't there companion books or something that this is all based on?


Hm...there are books but I haven't read them.

Maybe the guys at BioWare are just bad at pickups? Could always be that. :P

#227
Kalfear

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Blue_dodo wrote...

stanley woo has some good points, why do we need sex in the games ? just because a game is mature doesn't mean it should have sex or nudity and those who are constantly saying that the developers should put it on, well you kinda sounf immiture since someon who is mature would realize the following things:

each country has there own rating standerds, in japan nudity is fine but the depiction of actual sex or organs is prohibited, in germany nudity and sex as well as any sign of decay, are prohibited and in china well...most things are heavily screened no nudity/sex, decay and a whole lot of others.

2. being mature you would realzi that sexual content is not what makes a good game, in fact in many way it degrades it since such issues as how woman are presented, what actions, etc etc, not good for media attention



for know that's all I can think of anything else could come off as me trolling.


I dont usually say this but it appears to me the spelling mistakes more dood speech then mistakes so how the hell can you talk to anyone about maturity?

Quite doing online dood speech and actually spell out your words kid!

As for the rest of your arguement, its already been proved false and rather simplistic in its approach so perhaps you should read the topic at hand before blessing us with your dood speech.

Modifié par Kalfear, 06 février 2010 - 03:29 .


#228
Veex

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Kalfear wrote...

I dont usually say this but it appears to me the spelling mistakes more dood speech then mistakes so how the hell can you talk to anyone about maturity?

Quite doing online dood speech and actually spell out your words kid!

As for the rest of your arguement, its already been proved false and rather simplistic in its approach so perhaps you should read the topic at hand before blessing us with your dood speech.


Dont should be "don't" - Quite should be "quit" - arguement should be "argument" - proved should be "proven."

Perhaps you should also invest in some spelling lessons before trying to criticize others. If you can understand what he wrote, address his point, don't try and attack a person's spelling if you're quite clearly so inept yourself.

Modifié par Veex, 06 février 2010 - 03:35 .


#229
NKKKK

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I hate the fact that the only dev posting here is being politically neutral about it.

#230
wikkedjoker

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Stanley Woo wrote...

It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called "mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I talked about this a bit when I wrote a post about Mass Effect 2 being the best third person shooter I’ve ever played, with RPG set pieces.

Sexual content in a game, and the appropriateness has to do with the story. Look at Dante’s Inferno. The level of nudity fit’s the story they are trying to tell.

Now what does sex in Mass Effect do for the story? In ME1 it seemed like they used it to sell the game. It was a new IP and sex in games seemed to be a hot button subject. Even though ME1 turned out to be a good game, I believe the sales of the game was effected more positively than negatively by the press the game got, by advertising the sex in the game.

In ME1 as opposed to ME2 the Love scenes in the game seemed just like that, they were well choreographed and you really cared that Shep. finally got some. The music was nice, and the sentimentality was there, and it moved the story along.

In ME2 you have Jack, who yeah has a farley emotional scene one could hardly call it a sex scene, more like the two where there for one another. Her wall finally broke down and she just wanted to be with Shep. but seemed more like a make out scene than sex, but it was acceptable because it in a way moved Jacks personal story along.   And the same thing with Thane.

Miranda and Jacob, seemed almost forced, or like an inevitability, and it seemed pointless, like all they were doing was ****ing, to blow off some steam.

 Tali, was sweet, but seemed like a horny teenage girl, getting ready to be ****ed for the first time, by her hero. It was sweet, but fan service.

Garrus, was amusing, but still was fan service.

Its not that I don’t see sex as an inevitability to any romance, and it had its place in the story, to a point, you romance someone and just before the big bad suicide mission you shack up. But the way it was done in ME2, it felt almost like bioware said “ Well this is what the fans are expecting.” and half assed something into the plot, there is no scene of  caring that this happened.    

As far as the quality of the sex, I’m the type of guy, if your going to do it, do it. But if your doing it do it tastefully and make me care why your doing it. Sex for sex is not art, but just sex, in ME2 it just seemed like sex and not art, I didn’t care that Shep was ****ing the only girl with bigger than B ****** in the galaxy, because there was no reason to care, sure there was some emotional feel good stuff that he helped her get over, bur any good Captain of friend would do that

All and all was the sex in ME2 tame, yes, but they could have replaced it with the black Fable screen, and noises, and it would have made the same impact on me as it did.  ME1 had that, go Shep, and that feeling of this works, and its not out of place, and that shock value, of ”WOW, they really went there, but it wasn’t trashy.”

All and all I don’t think it was needed, in this plot, because it didn’t work.

On that same note, I think there should have been something for people who stayed with the old romance, like having a conversation in your room over a com link, with your old love, and not just looking at her/his pic, and that to completing the requirements for the romance achievement.

#231
coffeerox

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Stanley Woo, we are customers, those that supported BioWare's games and I do not feel that it was right for you to come in here and take the position of "it's our game, we do what we want, it's a dictatorship" attitude and I don't think anyone here appreciates that. You see what happened to Julius Caesar? You must have skipped History.



We customers fund your paychecks and whether you like it or not, if gamers don't like something, we won't buy it. Sure, people bought this one but people aren't stupid and if it matters enough, they'll completely skip (or pirate) the next game. We have a right to voice whatever concerns or issues we have with the game. It's not your place to say "tough luck dude, go somewhere else with that"



Bottom line is, you can't just say things that damage your company's image like that. I'll have to report you to Corporate and your superiors.

#232
Evil Johnny 666

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coffeerox wrote...

Stanley Woo, we are customers, those that supported BioWare's games and I do not feel that it was right for you to come in here and take the position of "it's our game, we do what we want, it's a dictatorship" attitude and I don't think anyone here appreciates that. You see what happened to Julius Caesar? You must have skipped History.

We customers fund your paychecks and whether you like it or not, if gamers don't like something, we won't buy it. Sure, people bought this one but people aren't stupid and if it matters enough, they'll completely skip (or pirate) the next game. We have a right to voice whatever concerns or issues we have with the game. It's not your place to say "tough luck dude, go somewhere else with that"

Bottom line is, you can't just say things that damage your company's image like that. I'll have to report you to Corporate and your superiors.


They make the game, them you pay for it if you want it. What is in the game is then out of reach for changes, like it or not. Using such argument for the lack of a sex scene is pretty immature.

#233
SethSteiner

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No, it`s not. It`s absolutly understandable. The industry don`t work like you think it would to. It`s essential today, to hear what the consumers want and what they don`t want. And of course, most of the data is stil changeable afterwards or have you never heard of patches, updates and downloadcontent?

#234
coffeerox

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That had nothing to do with the lack of a sex scene. It was about Woo's attitude.

edit: I've blocked you. Don't even bother responding to me. I hate it when people don't read anything and just call out insults, we call that a troll.

Modifié par coffeerox, 06 février 2010 - 05:33 .


#235
The Demonologist

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Coffee, in all honesty I really must just shake my head at that.



Do you see millions of fans foaming at the mouth over this particular issue?



Do you see a few people being -very- vocal about it?



Yes. Those people do NOT equal -THE- customer base. It's pretty darn clear to me that they won't be losing sales over THIS particular issue, and if people were not to buy it for that reason, that would be absolutely immature.

#236
coffeerox

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Then shake your head at it then I don't care what you think. How do you know millions of fans didn't like it. They all tell you? No. So you go by the people you CAN hear and what they didn't like or liked about it.

You say losing sales over it is immature? How about Return to Ostagar still not being on PS3? Is that immature too to sell the game because we don't feel we get the same support as 360 and PC? I'm not saying I sold the game, but other people have and I don't blame them. It's not in your place to say if it's mature or immature over what people like or dislike. What people buy or don't buy.  People can buy or not buy whatever the hell they want.  Personal preference can get crazy and people choose not to buy things over the most simplest things.  You can't call them immature for that.

Modifié par coffeerox, 06 février 2010 - 05:39 .


#237
nospacesinmyname

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Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

coffeerox wrote...

Stanley Woo, we are customers, those that supported BioWare's games and I do not feel that it was right for you to come in here and take the position of "it's our game, we do what we want, it's a dictatorship" attitude and I don't think anyone here appreciates that. You see what happened to Julius Caesar? You must have skipped History.

We customers fund your paychecks and whether you like it or not, if gamers don't like something, we won't buy it. Sure, people bought this one but people aren't stupid and if it matters enough, they'll completely skip (or pirate) the next game. We have a right to voice whatever concerns or issues we have with the game. It's not your place to say "tough luck dude, go somewhere else with that"

Bottom line is, you can't just say things that damage your company's image like that. I'll have to report you to Corporate and your superiors.


They make the game, them you pay for it if you want it. What is in the game is then out of reach for changes, like it or not. Using such argument for the lack of a sex scene is pretty immature.


How narrow of an interpretation. I have to agree with coffeerox. Its not about a sex scene its about the man from bioware saying "get lost." I don't see why what was done with the first game couldn't be replicated I'm guessing it was some "back room" dealings, hopefully it'll be sorted out for ME3.

#238
Evil Johnny 666

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SethSteiner wrote...

No, it`s not. It`s absolutly understandable. The industry don`t work like you think it would to. It`s essential today, to hear what the consumers want and what they don`t want. And of course, most of the data is stil changeable afterwards or have you never heard of patches, updates and downloadcontent?


Because someone would not buy the game because there is no sex scene? The reason why Bioware listened that much for some changes in ME2 is because they care for what their fans thought. Thing is, MOST devs don't even ask fans for what they think, the games are not made by fans but the devs. All in all a game is a product, something created by the devs, and as a customer you have the right to buy or not a game and the devs may want to do what they want in order to have more people buy it, be it massive promotion or giving what everyone wants. And sex in ME2 is certainly not the biggest concern of most poeple. If Bioware would change anything according to what people want, it would have to do with gameplay first. I mean, sure there are some artists who sold out to get more fans as possible, but they are still the one with the creative power. And anyway, you can't please anyone, so people complaining about no sex scenes really shouldn't bother Bioware at all because you are a minority.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 06 février 2010 - 05:38 .


#239
Evil Johnny 666

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nospacesinmyname wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

coffeerox wrote...

Stanley Woo, we are customers, those that supported BioWare's games and I do not feel that it was right for you to come in here and take the position of "it's our game, we do what we want, it's a dictatorship" attitude and I don't think anyone here appreciates that. You see what happened to Julius Caesar? You must have skipped History.

We customers fund your paychecks and whether you like it or not, if gamers don't like something, we won't buy it. Sure, people bought this one but people aren't stupid and if it matters enough, they'll completely skip (or pirate) the next game. We have a right to voice whatever concerns or issues we have with the game. It's not your place to say "tough luck dude, go somewhere else with that"

Bottom line is, you can't just say things that damage your company's image like that. I'll have to report you to Corporate and your superiors.


They make the game, them you pay for it if you want it. What is in the game is then out of reach for changes, like it or not. Using such argument for the lack of a sex scene is pretty immature.


How narrow of an interpretation. I have to agree with coffeerox. Its not about a sex scene its about the man from bioware saying "get lost." I don't see why what was done with the first game couldn't be replicated I'm guessing it was some "back room" dealings, hopefully it'll be sorted out for ME3.


Man, it,s his ****ing game. When you pay for a game, you pay for that game. You have no more right from someone who doesn't have it over what you want in the game and you have no right over ME3 a game that you haven't even bought yet. You pay to play, that's it, yeah they may listen to some whining, but otherwise, a game is the work of a developper and they surely have the right to do as they please. Just stop buying their games if you're not happy. Stop thinking you are entitled to something when you buy a game. It never worked that way in movies as well as music, videogames is no different.

#240
Darth_Ultima

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Every time the topic of nudity in games is discussed I am reminded of the childish and immature strippers in Duke Nukem 3D. The scenes in Bioware's games are tastefully done and they do not need to change.

Modifié par Darth_Ultima, 06 février 2010 - 05:43 .


#241
coffeerox

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Johnny - How many times we have to tell you that we aren't talking about that stupid scene?

You pay to play, that's it, yeah they may listen to some whining, but
otherwise, a game is the work of a developper and they surely have the
right to do as they please.


Yes they do have a right to do as they please with their game but it's in bad taste to come in here and tell us to get lost.  Do you realize that you're nothing but a money grab to them? We ARE entitled to say whatever we want about anything.  Doesn't matter what you think. People are going to talk regardless.

Yes, this is Bioware boards, they may choose to dictate if the thread exists if they want but if they keep it open, I will talk about it to my hearts content.  I don't need people like you telling me I can't.  If I can't then make me.

Modifié par coffeerox, 06 février 2010 - 05:47 .


#242
massive_effect

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I was afraid that the sex scene would be worse, but I'm glad that Bioware made it more tame. It would have been far better if they would at least suggest that you should wait until your married.

#243
Evil Johnny 666

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coffeerox wrote...

Johnny - How many times we have to tell you that we aren't talking about that stupid scene?

You pay to play, that's it, yeah they may listen to some whining, but
otherwise, a game is the work of a developper and they surely have the
right to do as they please.


Yes they do have a right to do as they please with their game but it's in bad taste to come in here and tell us to get lost.  Do you realize that you're nothing but a money grab to them? We ARE entitled to say whatever we want about anything.  Doesn't matter what you think. People are going to talk regardless.

Yes, this is Bioware boards, they may choose to dictate if the thread exists if they want but if they keep it open, I will talk about it to my hearts content.  I don't need people like you telling me I can't.  If I can't then make me.


Well because that's something stupid! I was talking about the sex scene yeah, but that was good for anything stupid like that.

You do realize we're a money grab for everyone? Every companies out there are here to make money. I hate it, I ****ing hate it and the whole capitalist pig system where they make 500 percent of profit over food for example, charging us 2 bucks for juice that is worth 2 cents, but we can't change it. That is why I buy what I want and besides video games and some movies, I barely buy anything from those money thirsty companies. Well Bioware or any developper may not be particularly money thirsty, but their big bosses sure do. It's like that, we can't change that and instead of complaining about it, I accept that I can't change anything about that.

#244
The Demonologist

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massive_effect wrote...

I was afraid that the sex scene would be worse, but I'm glad that Bioware made it more tame. It would have been far better if they would at least suggest that you should wait until your married.


Oh jesus.

Pandora's Box, ye' have been opened.

#245
coffeerox

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Ok, NOW I'm talking about the scenes. Let me just make a point. Soap Operas were made for teens to mature adults, and it's shown on daytime TV where anybody can see them. Soap Opera sex scenes have MORE in them AND were made for a under 18 audience. If they can do what they do for an under 18 audience, then why can't a GAME that's made for 18+ audience at least match that??



I understand that they didn't want explicit nudity or explicit sex but they don't have to have that to make a good romance scene. The fact is they screwed up on the romance scene. I guess the fact that nerds made it had something to do with that huh? Maybe they should take a page out of soap operas and learn how it's really done.

#246
Shadow_Phoenix

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Okay I agree and disagree on this matter. It does seem like Bioware's more mature games have gone out of the way to avoid nudity and/or sexual situations since Fox News, but I doubt it's about wanting to deal with another bunch of uneducated puppets spouting whatever they have heard from a friend. If you've played Bringing Down the Sky on the PC version, they've left their message on the matter.



Personally I found the romance moments in ME2 to be very tasteful and artistic, even better than in the first game. This time each romance was tailored to the characters personality. So there is no nudity, big deal.



As long as Bioware continues to make scenes tasteful and they aren't being pressured by the media (and I don't think they have been or care if they were), I'll be here enjoying the movie quality romance they put in. If you want nudity, play Dragon Age with some of the XXX mods

#247
knight5923

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.........am I the only one who noticed that Jack was pretty much topless throughout the entire game? I'd say thats a fair bit more skin than anyone was ever shown in ME1. You can't get yer naked jollies off of that?

#248
Evil Johnny 666

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coffeerox wrote...

Ok, NOW I'm talking about the scenes. Let me just make a point. Soap Operas were made for teens to mature adults, and it's shown on daytime TV where anybody can see them. Soap Opera sex scenes have MORE in them AND were made for a under 18 audience. If they can do what they do for an under 18 audience, then why can't a GAME that's made for 18+ audience at least match that??

I understand that they didn't want explicit nudity or explicit sex but they don't have to have that to make a good romance scene. The fact is they screwed up on the romance scene. I guess the fact that nerds made it had something to do with that huh? Maybe they should take a page out of soap operas and learn how it's really done.


They may have screwed up the romance scene, but I think that while entertaining, even the romance subplot of ME1 was more or less weak, not really belivable. But since it's a video-game, it may be harder than a movie for obvious reasons.

#249
TwitcH90

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If you want a full on sex scene, go play a Japanese visual novel. People shouldn't be disappointed, the romance is still there and done tastefully and not tacked with nudity *cough*DantesInferno*cough*.

Speaking of Dante's Inferno, that "EA game" seems to make your assumption of the EA partnership pretty false.

For M rated games, I fully support games that do show some skin but I'm not one to bash on a company/developer that chooses to limit the nudity. To ask for more nudity is rather immature in my opinion.

To those who believe kids should view sex rather than violence, while I do a agree to some extent, kids are commonly taught that killing is wrong and the ultimate sin/crime while sex is something more seen as a neutral unless they're fully religious. I know my parents started letting me play M rated games when I turned 13 because they know I was smart enough to distinguish reality and fiction. Porn and sex I couldn't obtain till obviously I became 18 and did it at my own time. I would believe that kids who see sex/porn at an early age might undergo underage sex due to curiosity and developing puperty. Though for my reasons, I'm just basing from what I experienced growing up.

If anyone here/or has a friend watch sex/porn at an early age (say staring 10 - 13 years old) consistently as video games, did you/he/she control the urges and held off from boning anyone till a responsible age to do so?

Modifié par TwitcH90, 06 février 2010 - 06:10 .


#250
Areski14

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Stanley Woo wrote...

But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.


I think you may want to actually think a bit about business before you make any more comments like this one. While you may think of Bioware games, perhaps all videogames, as art, they are first and foremost a product to sell to consumers. Your comment reflects the same ideas American auto-makers had for the past few decades. They built cars they wanted, not cars their customers wanted. As a result, other, foreign auto-makers who actually paid attention to what consumers wanted were able to easily dominate the market. If your opinion marks the opinion of Bioware as a whole, it is only a matter of time when what the developers want to make and what consumers want to play will diverge, and your studio goes out of business.

In other words, you should be listening to customers. While it may not be our job to dictate what content you include, it is your job to listen to the customer. Your customers pay your salary. Without them, there is no content for you to develop.