954 réponses à ce sujet

[nospacesinmyname]

As a paying customer, we've got EVERY right to say how we feel about any issue we have with a product, because I bought it, further still i bought it blind. now lets give you an analog to examine. say you buy a car, now you've had the previous generation model and know all the features inside and out. your so excited that the manufacture has updated it you go out and buy it. having not even driven it you assume all the optional equipment works just as well as your old car. but couple miles down the road something doesn't work like it used to now its not essential to the cars basic function but still you went in with the expectation that it would be the same. now you go and contact the manufacture of your new car and ask "why the change?" and they reply "we make the car how WE want to don't like it? go pound sand." sure you really like the new car but are you as likely to buy another model they make? I don't think so.

[thompsonaf]

This thread is ****ing pathetic. "we want to see boobies and butts! omg we're so mature so we complain about not seeing nudity in a video game!" ME is not about sex, dating, nudity or homosexual relationships. Everyone complaining about the lack of seeing genitals in a video game is immature and needs to get a life.

Modifié par thompsonaf, 06 février 2010 - 06:12 .

[Abriael_CG]

coffeerox wrote...

Stanley Woo, we are customers, those that supported BioWare's games and I do not feel that it was right for you to come in here and take the position of "it's our game, we do what we want, it's a dictatorship" attitude and I don't think anyone here appreciates that. You see what happened to Julius Caesar? You must have skipped History.

We are customers. As customers we have the right to demand quality in a product we buy. We have not the right to demand a certain element to be included, no more than a certain character or anything else. Yes. You got it. We don't have the right to demand full or partial nudity, sex in the game, flat kaidan as a squad mate, gay shepard, EDI romance, flying donkeys or whatever else crosses your mind because you like it. No matter how much you think it fits the game, it's not your game.
You can ask for it politely (and many people, including the OP, didn't ask politely), but Bioware has the full right to decide that option is not fitting or necessary.

No matter if a vocal portion of the community (an hint for you, you or the forums do not represent the playerbase or "the customers" in any way) wants. This is Bioware's game, and they decide what gets in and what's left out.
The only right you have is to chose if to buy it or not, and given the success of the average Bioware game, and it's quality, if you don't, you're simply damaging yourself.

As for stanley "damaging the company's image", that's between him and Bioware. You're not in any position to judge. I, for one, applaud his frank approach, more developers should tell drooling and demanding spoiled basement dwellers what they deserve to be told.
So for sure, at least with me, he didn't damage the company's image. Quite the contrary, he improved it.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 06 février 2010 - 06:37 .

[daoster]

Areski14 wrote...

I think you may want to actually think a bit about business before you make any more comments like this one. While you may think of Bioware games, perhaps all videogames, as art, they are first and foremost a product to sell to consumers. Your comment reflects the same ideas American auto-makers had for the past few decades. They built cars they wanted, not cars their customers wanted. As a result, other, foreign auto-makers who actually paid attention to what consumers wanted were able to easily dominate the market. If your opinion marks the opinion of Bioware as a whole, it is only a matter of time when what the developers want to make and what consumers want to play will diverge, and your studio goes out of business.

In other words, you should be listening to customers. While it may not be our job to dictate what content you include, it is your job to listen to the customer. Your customers pay your salary. Without them, there is no content for you to develop.

I don't think we as gamers, pay the wages of Bioware at all.  I mean, sure you could say eventually our money goes into the wages of Bioware, but if anything, our money fuels the coffers of Electronic Arts, which eventually trickles down to Bioware in terms of wages.  But hey, you can use this statement for anything!  

Also, you've greatly simplified the problems with the American Auto Industry and comparing them to the game industry (or in this case, Bioware), you're comparing apples and oranges.  One is struggling greatly, the other just released the first blockbuster of 2010 and is already considered by some a contender for GOTY.

It's also fairly obvious that Bioware HAS listened to fan requests for things like Tali, the Mako, the elevator scenes, the inventory system, the battle system, etc.  Not saying that all the changes they've made have been perfect, and in fact, a lot of fans are crying about some of the cut things (you'll never know a good thing till you lose it), but a lot of the changes Bioware made was in response to fan criticisms.

Bioware, more than the average video game developer, has actively listened to the fans, actively engaged with the fanbase, and have made some changes based on fan requests.  At the end of the day though, Mass Effect is THEIR Intellectual Property, and they do what THEY deem necessary.  Just because they've addressed some concerns of the fans doesn't mean the fans now automatically have authority of demanding things from Bioware.  And thank God for that, cause if fans had their way with everything, it'd probably be a crappy game.    

[Ratfuzz]

I, for one, am completely fine with the ME2 scenes. They are tastefully done and are mainly focused on the character development.



However, I think we're all backwards here. Why is nudity considered taboo more than violence? Male genitals + female genitals = OH **** STAY AWAY, while chainsaw + torso = Oh, that's a cool effect! Body parts are supposed to stay attached in real life, and beavers are supposed to eat logs. It's a fact of life.



Despite this, I really don't see how any of this takes away from the quality of Mass Effect. It's a nearly flawless game in my opinion, other than some bugs (Xbox Live update?)

[Alchemist02]

Wow so many people misunderstand what they'r asking for here its almost.... Sad.



The good people here are not asking for something out of a porn movie.



It is a game rated M (which +16? or was it 17+?)



ME1 hade a rather good romance scene, Nothing to exposed no full frontal etc and the media blew it out of proportion just for the hell of it (Well thats the USA for you...), however after releasing the game and having people see this supposed ''Porn scene'' we ofcourse found out it was all a lie, And nobody cared.



Then comes Dragon age which was promoted as a ''Dark mature fantasy game'' (Er that may not have been the exact words) with was made for the slightly more mature audience, Then the only part that really required you to be more mature in (any little kid can figure out the basics of the quest without understanding or caring about the story) was a complete joke... so water'd down that i was not worth doing at all.



And now we come down to the bottom of barrel with ME2 where there was ALMOST nothing because of biowares fear of being attacked by the fox fools again.



Snap out of it bioware, Time to stop living in fear of the Fox fools and there crappy little TV shows, They already lost the attention of people when they did the ME1 rapport and it flopped for them, Or atleast do not promote your games as ''mature'' without a good enough reason and i can tell you, Blood and Foul language is not enough reason for you to call it ''mature''

[daoster]

BrotherShepherd wrote...

Snap out of it bioware, Time to stop living in fear of the Fox fools and there crappy little TV shows, They already lost the attention of people when they did the ME1 rapport and it flopped for them, Or atleast do not promote your games as ''mature'' without a good enough reason and i can tell you, Blood and Foul language is not enough reason for you to call it ''mature''

And I'm sure nudity makes it definitely more mature 

Of course blood and foul language is not a reason for people to call the game mature, but its the themes of the story and the basic setting, which compared to ME1, is definitely more mature.  

And why do people think that Bioware (or EA) are afraid of Fox News or making the changes because of Fox News?  Have you folks ever heard the term, "any publicity is good publicity"?  

In fact, EA is practically INVITING controversial publicities with some of the stunts they've pulled off for Dante's Inferno, so stop claiming that Bioware (or EA) are afraid of stirring up controversy again.  

[Vixxen1984]

First let me start by saying I am not the owner of this profile/account... I am her boyfriend and I didn't sign up for an EA Forum account, but she doesn't mind me using it to say this, because we share the same exact view. We live together, and are both 26.

We were both HUGE fans of the first one, not just because of the amazing graphics, RPG elements, storyline, and conversation options, but mostly because it overall legitimately raised the bar for the video games a LOT, in a LOT of ways, and treaded on ground not seen before nor executed so well by past video games. It was a HUGE step forward, in so many ways - and the sex scene WAS, in FACT, one of them.

That being said, we both were EXTREMELY excited about Mass Effect 2. We bought the game because we felt it would continue in that direction and raise the bar even further - or at least meet the bar at the level it was raised by the first one. We had VERY high expectations for this game, and the expectations were absolutely achievable by the developers, and in many cases were even exceeded when it was not even thought that it was needed... here's what we thought about our expectations...

Fluid, natural and overall much more enjoyable gameplay/combat? Even better than ME1! Check.
Tons of content? Check. 
More renegade/paragon options? Even better than ME1! Check.
Legitimate consequences from actions? Even better than ME1! Check.
Moral choices? Even better than ME1! Check.
Great graphics? Even better than ME1! Check.
Character development/history/personality/etc. Even better than ME1! Check.
Character customization? Even better than ME1! Check.
More believable emotions/behaviors from characters? Even better than ME1! Check.
Elimination of tedium involved in inventory, armor, ammo, weapons, etc? Check.
A good twist? Worse than ME1. FAIL.
A solid antagonist? Worse than ME1. FAIL.
A challenging/unpredictable boss? Worse than ME1. FAIL.
Sex scene? Worse than ME1. FAIL. FAIL. EPIC FAIL.

We probably would have bought it anyways, but the thing  is, we and probably a *significant* portion of those of us who bought the game bought it because we loved all the things about ME1 that made it great, and expected them to be at least be met, or even better - exceeded. I would like to respond to this quote by Stanley Woo:

"It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called "mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice."

No, Stanley - you're completely missing the point. It's mostly that ME1 showed how a game could be mature about handling sex, and it did. It allowed the game to have more  of an emotional impact on us, as gamers. Sure there was some "giggity, giggity" about it from many who played it, but overall - the point still stands. It handled sex in a tasteful, mature way and managed to use it to create an even more emotional impact on the players. After all, sex is a very emotional as well as physical experience.

Yes, you are free to have or not have sex and/or nudity in your games, regardless what anyone says about it (except maybe EA). You have the freedom to make these choices. However, as a company that delivers a good that customers buy, you can also choose to listen to their wants and desires and maximize the effectiveness of your product depending on what those paying customers want. Depending on how you deliver on your product, they either will or will not be happy, and may be a combination of both. It is quite obvious to me that people loved the first game and so many were so excited about the second game, because of all the different bars that were raised by the first and all the new ground it treaded (including sex) and the media and publicity it stirred up... and even though you met or exceeded many of those bars, you also most certainly took some big steps back in other areas of the game - ones that could have been very easy to meet or exceed in regards to the first one. My girlfriend (who is a very mature, and attractive girl btw) was VERY disappointed, even more so than I was, to the point of utter disappointment and annoyance I could see in her face and choice of words, at the LAME sex scenes in the game, particularly relative to the sensual and effective experience from the first game.

As a company that delivers a product, you can either continue to shoot down and **** at your paying customers and fans, the majority of which were particularly disappointed at some aspects of the game, and take more steps back, or you can listen to them and improve on your formula in the third game. If you go down the path of the former, get ready to pay the consequences of more ****ing and probably lower sales than an ultimate potential that you have. Am I saying it won't sell? Absolutely not... you have a winning franchise on your hands and people are going to buy tons of them. But there is a potential to always sell more and make more passionate fans of your IP... and what you are doing is limiting it's potential.

In the end, it makes no sense to me as to why you would take such a step back on the sex aspect of the game, when that was such a major reason why so many did, in fact buy it in the first place - or at least had a major impact on their purchase. This was new ground you were treading on and people wanted to see how you pulled it off. You pulled it off well and it resulted in tons of publicity both negative and positive, which either way in turn generated larger and larger sales numbers. I sincerely believe you guys got scared by someone, either EA, the media, or some retarded irresponsible parents, bent over and self-censored. It really doesn't make any other sense to me as to why.

Later on, answering another forum poster who dragged parenting into the discuss, Woo continues:

"You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unacceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your job to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

Actually, Stanley - you're wrong - absolutely wrong here. Yes, it's not your job to do the parenting, but it is your job to listen to what your paying customers want - and a majority wanted some of this stuff. Yes they bought your product anyways, but they definitely aren't nearly as excited as the potential was for them to be. And yes, we, as paying customers, are YOUR bosses, YOUR dictators, not the other way around - so actually WE dictate what content you should include or not include in your games.

In economics, you understand that markets listen to and react to demand. If you don't cater to the demands of your customers - it will hurt you in some way, whatever way, in the end. You may think it's not a collaborative effort, but in the end, in reality, just indirectly - it is. You, as a business must listen to and cater to the demands of your true bosses, who pay your paycheck - your customers. If you don't you'll suffer the consequences in some way. Right now you have the power of being a monopoly on such a type of game, but now that other game developers see such a demand is here, they'll be more of a supply, and if they do this all better than you (by learning from your successes and mistakes) - you're sales numbers will suffer and you will not be moving towards you're potential. Listen to your customers, and you will be greatly rewarded - don't listen you'll be doing it at your own peril.

And to forum user Gorn Kregore who said...

"Two words: Get laid."

I do. Pretty much every night. Thanks. Despite what you may believe, saying this doesn't make you cool or witty it just makes you ignorant. The majority of my friends who play this game have no trouble getting laid - either as a bachelor or with their girlfriends. So pervading and spreading around the false idea that gamers, or gamers who want nudity or sex or other such things in their games as not getting laid or not being able to get laid, just makes you an ignorant douchebag.

I still loved the game very much and is still one of my all time favorites, although I was definitely disappointed in many ways (but only because the first blew me away and I had such high expectations for the second), I and my gf will definitely be buying ME3.

Also, as a side note... I really wish there was some way to hook up with Morinth and live. I thought she was hot and that could especially  make for some interesting dynamic for the third, not only for the drama in your relationship having decided to be with such an evil succubus, but also with how it could take the story. And maybe they could release DLC to make it so if you had enough renegade, you could possibly survive the interaction with Morinth and carry that over the ME3? Maybe the decisions in the first and second games, if they were hardcore renegade enough, could lead Shepard down a path of being legitimately evil as a consequence for ME3 and siding with the reapers or just becoming a power hungry threat to the galaxy him/herself? Could REALLY make for a powerful twist and change to the story and ending for ME3 and another reason for others to play through all the games again.

Okay, I'm done - haha!


(EDIT) PS - Just the fact that someone like my girlfriend (who at first glance would NOT look like your typical 'gamer', and is generally not a scifi fan) got so into this game (it's her favorite videogame by far), shows the potential you guys, as game developers have in reaching new audiences. Playing this game felt like not just playing an awesome, fun videogame, but also like watching a movie unfold, with drama and everything. You're treading on some legitimately new ground here, and you guys have potential to make some serious breakthroughs for the industry, if you haven't already. While playing this game at my friend's house - his MOM sat down and watched the interactions and was genuinely interested... said it was like watching a movie.

Seriously, you guys could be making some SERIOUS breakthroughs with this game... Don't. ****. It up.

Modifié par Vixxen1984, 06 février 2010 - 07:01 .

[Abriael_CG]

BrotherShepherd wrote...

Wow so many people misunderstand what they'r asking for here its almost.... Sad.

There's a big difference between asking and demanding, and whining if one doesn't get what he wants.

The op and most others here are demanding and whining, not asking. They got the response they fully deserved.

The good people here are not asking for something out of a porn movie.

It is a game rated M (which +16? or was it 17+?)

(snip)

Then comes Dragon age which was promoted as a ''Dark mature fantasy game''

(snip)

Blood and Foul language is not enough reason for you to call it ''mature''

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but "mature" implies mature themes. Both dragon age and Mass Effect 2 are bursting full of mature themes. There's no need for pixel nipples to make a game "mature".

If you think sex is a requirement to make something appealing to a mature audience, then you probably aren't part of it. It's that simple.

[durasteel]

I had mo problem with Mass Effect 2. I'll admit that I thought the sex scene in Mass Effect (the first one) added something nice to the game, and that a similar moment in the sequel might have been a plus, but I didn't miss it - there was simply no sex depicted at all in ME2, it was only implied.



Dragon Age, on the other hand, was insulting in that regard. There were unequivocal sex scenes, but the images were censored by the addition of incongruous, ridiculous looking WalMart style undergarments. What made it worse was that you could plainly tell in the case of Morrigan that she did not wear that garbage under her regular clothing.



You can obviously say what you want to, Mr. Stan Woo, and of course BioWare can make whatever games y'all choose to make, with whatever level of graphic carnage, nudity, and sex... or lack thereof. Don't get all high-and-mighty, though, when your fans tell you that they find some of your choices to be silly or incongruous. All feedback is useful in your industry, as you well know, and if you're defensive on this issue it suggests that you know that at least some of the criticism is spot-on.



I think it might be noteworthy that Mass Effect was the last title published by BioWare before the EA assimilation. The BioWare team might be more inclined towards tasteful nudity, but be constrained by EA's insistence that nothing should be done to risk angering prudish parents who might display their indignation by not purchasing EA's sports titles for their halfwit spawn. Just a thought.

[TwitcH90]

ME1 hade a rather good romance scene, Nothing to exposed no full frontal etc and the media blew it out of proportion just for the hell of it (Well thats the USA for you...), however after releasing the game and having people see this supposed ''Porn scene'' we ofcourse found out it was all a lie, And nobody cared.

Then comes Dragon age which was promoted as a ''Dark mature fantasy game'' (Er that may not have been the exact words) with was made for the slightly more mature audience, Then the only part that really required you to be more mature in (any little kid can figure out the basics of the quest without understanding or caring about the story) was a complete joke... so water'd down that i was not worth doing at all.

And now we come down to the bottom of barrel with ME2 where there was ALMOST nothing because of biowares fear of being attacked by the fox fools again.

Snap out of it bioware, Time to stop living in fear of the Fox fools and there crappy little TV shows, They already lost the attention of people when they did the ME1 rapport and it flopped for them, Or atleast do not promote your games as ''mature'' without a good enough reason and i can tell you, Blood and Foul language is not enough reason for you to call it ''mature''

So what you're suggesting is just basically more nudity? *Sigh* We know what went on during those embraces, kisses, and rhythmic movements in both Mass Effect n Dragon Age, those scenes are done with artful taste and are "mature" for us to handle. If what you're asking for is full on nudity and possibly penetration in an RPG, you're playing the wrong type of game. There are plenty of visual novels that allow choice, romance, and the sex scenes you want, I suggest you should try those.

[Moist Von Lipwig]

Stanley Woo wrote...

It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called "mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice.

Of course if EA have something to say about it its a whole new ballgame.

But seriously, I agree with everyone who has said that they dont want a full on sex scene. its just that while IMO some of the dialogue and emotional side of the ME2 LI have taken a step forward, everything else has seemed to take 2 steps backward. I think overall i prefer the ME2 romances, but they still leave something to be desired.

Modifié par Moist Von Lipwig, 06 février 2010 - 06:54 .

[Alchemist02]

Not really, Its not about the Nudity.



Its about Censorship and how developers shouldnt be forced into censoring there games.



The theme of the story? Tell me what was so ''Mature'' about dragon ages story?



What was ''mature'' about ME2s story?



Well then why would they censor there products? If bioware was not afraid that fox would attempt annother fail news rapport on there sad network?

There was NO reason for bioware to backdown, They hade all the legal rights to keep doing what they were doing, They were doing NOTHING wrong.



Dantes inferno is annother game and EA is not in question, Bioware is.

[gosensgo88]

I just read Stanley Woo's posts and all I can do is shake my head. Although I found the sex scenes in both games to be useless and both games could have done without them, it is quite obvious that they were toned down in ME2 because of the controversy surrounding the first game. The fact that you think ME fans are dumb enough to accept your reason that you guys did it out of your own free will is just insulting. I didn't know you had such a low opinion of your fanbase.



You're right on one thing though, you won't let ME fans dictate the game content, but you sure as hell will let ME haters do it :/

[SethSteiner]

Sexual content is a part of life but a part in life that is mostly ignored by the whole industry. Of course Dragon Age and Mass Effect don`t lack of mature content and nearly no one would say they aren`t done in a good way. The problem lies in the way the sexual content is represented. It`s not whining here, it`s criticism. In the age of the internet, it seems to many people hard to differentiate between the two words. If a whole media lacks of this content, try to avoid or walk around it like if it`s a bear trap, a company must deal with criticism if they introduced such content as one of the few. BioWare took the role as a vanguard in that topic, many gamers (including me) seem to expect that they at least try to hold the position they already brought up but no, they made a step backward. They did it in terms of homosexual content, they did it in terms of sexual content itself. They need to deal with infinit complains because they made a step backward, because sexual content is a part of any universe, it`s a part of dark and dirty places, it`s a part of relationships and of real life. No one demands a porn game but a game that has a self-esteem that is able to be compared to literature and movies. As long as video games are scared about this topic and don`t go forward, people will complain and critize such behaviour.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Vixxen1984 wrote...


"You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unacceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your job to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

Actually, Stanley - you're wrong - absolutely wrong here. Yes, it's not your job to do the parenting, but it is your job to listen to what your paying customers want - and a majority wanted some of this stuff. Yes they bought your product anyways, but they definitely aren't nearly as excited as the potential was for them to be. And yes, we, as paying customers, are YOUR bosses, YOUR dictators, not the other way around - so actually WE dictate what content you should include or not include in your games.

In economics, you understand that markets listen to and react to demand. If you don't cater to the demands of your customers - it will hurt you in some way, whatever way, in the end. You may think it's not a collaborative effort, but in the end, in reality, just indirectly - it is. You, as a business must listen to and cater to the demands of your true bosses, who pay your paycheck - your customers. If you don't you'll suffer the consequences in some way. Right now you have the power of being a monopoly on such a type of game, but now that other game developers see such a demand is here, they'll be more of a supply, and if they do this all better than you (by learning from your successes and mistakes) - you're sales numbers will suffer and you will not be moving towards you're potential. Listen to your customers, and you will be greatly rewarded - don't listen you'll be doing it at your own peril.

:innocent: Sure! That's why it never worked that way! That's why they always made the game they wanted and will continue! Basically, he says "We do what we want" and you answer "No you don't". Wow. Like he said, developping a game is not a collaborative effort between developpers and gamers, same for movies, same for music, same for book, same for anything entertainment. Sure they may decide to make things that would make more people to buy the game, but no one ever told a developper how to make his game and it's not going to change, particularly not that there is NO real way to know what the majority of players want and forums is certainly not a good place to do so as only 10 or 20% of games actually attend forum discussion and are not representative of what gamers in general want. So no, even if they wanted to do a collaborative effort, it would be impossible unless they give that privilege to the few of us discussing on their forums which would absolutely wrong.

[TwitcH90]

BrotherShepherd wrote...

Not really, Its not about the Nudity.

Its about Censorship and how developers shouldnt be forced into censoring there games.

The theme of the story? Tell me what was so ''Mature'' about dragon ages story?

What was ''mature'' about ME2s story?

Well then why would they censor there products? If bioware was not afraid that fox would attempt annother fail news rapport on there sad network?
There was NO reason for bioware to backdown, They hade all the legal rights to keep doing what they were doing, They were doing NOTHING wrong.

Are you taking account of the true definition of "mature", because that is not the argument here.

According to the ESRB, Mass Effect to is rated M for Blood, Drug Reference, Sexual Content, Strong Language, Violence. I can say, after playing the game, that there were a lot more mature references when it came to the drug references (red sand dealings) and the strong language (see Jack). Sexual content was there and we know what happens when start to get it on.

Again, to those with the sex vs violence for kids. Let me ask you guys, would you let your kids see Arnold's Commando or 2 girls and one cup?

[daoster]

BrotherShepherd wrote...

What was ''mature'' about ME2s story?

Well then why would they censor there products? If bioware was not afraid that fox would attempt annother fail news rapport on there sad network?
There was NO reason for bioware to backdown, They hade all the legal rights to keep doing what they were doing, They were doing NOTHING wrong.

Dantes inferno is annother game and EA is not in question, Bioware is.

So please tell me what you think mature should have been?  Did you think ME1 was suppose to be more mature than ME2?  (And while I know DA:O was widely touted to be a dark fantasy, I think ME2 was referred to as the DARKER story in the trilogy). 

And why would they "censor" (and that's probably not the right word here) their sex scenes?  Well, I dunno, Stanley came in and explained it to us already, and me, believing in the best of people, accepted Stanley's explanation (silly me, they're really covering it up for some conspiracy plot!). 

Game companies don't always make changes to their games because they're afraid of "legal rights" or doing anything right or wrong...

And the reason why I bring up EA is because other people (not you necessarily) have speculated that because Bioware is now EA's property, they have to suddenly conform to some "decency" standard.  

Modifié par daoster, 06 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[Vixxen1984]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Vixxen1984 wrote...


"You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unacceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your job to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

Actually, Stanley - you're wrong - absolutely wrong here. Yes, it's not your job to do the parenting, but it is your job to listen to what your paying customers want - and a majority wanted some of this stuff. Yes they bought your product anyways, but they definitely aren't nearly as excited as the potential was for them to be. And yes, we, as paying customers, are YOUR bosses, YOUR dictators, not the other way around - so actually WE dictate what content you should include or not include in your games.

In economics, you understand that markets listen to and react to demand. If you don't cater to the demands of your customers - it will hurt you in some way, whatever way, in the end. You may think it's not a collaborative effort, but in the end, in reality, just indirectly - it is. You, as a business must listen to and cater to the demands of your true bosses, who pay your paycheck - your customers. If you don't you'll suffer the consequences in some way. Right now you have the power of being a monopoly on such a type of game, but now that other game developers see such a demand is here, they'll be more of a supply, and if they do this all better than you (by learning from your successes and mistakes) - you're sales numbers will suffer and you will not be moving towards you're potential. Listen to your customers, and you will be greatly rewarded - don't listen you'll be doing it at your own peril.

:innocent: Sure! That's why it never worked that way! That's why they always made the game they wanted and will continue! Basically, he says "We do what we want" and you answer "No you don't". Wow. Like he said, developping a game is not a collaborative effort between developpers and gamers, same for movies, same for music, same for book, same for anything entertainment. Sure they may decide to make things that would make more people to buy the game, but no one ever told a developper how to make his game and it's not going to change, particularly not that there is NO real way to know what the majority of players want and forums is certainly not a good place to do so as only 10 or 20% of games actually attend forum discussion and are not representative of what gamers in general want. So no, even if they wanted to do a collaborative effort, it would be impossible unless they give that privilege to the few of us discussing on their forums which would absolutely wrong.

:innocent: You obviously completely missed my point, but whatever.

[Abriael_CG]

BrotherShepherd wrote...

Not really, Its not about the Nudity.

Its about Censorship and how developers shouldnt be forced into censoring there games.

Who told you they censored their game? Who told you they simply didn't find more tasteful and didn't like more the option to portray just the starting of the sex (because the scenes don't portray "fully clothed sex, they somply start the initial moments of it, people generally don't snap a finger and have their clothes disappear, even in the future)?
You implying censorship is based just on your own assumptions.

The theme of the story? Tell me what was so ''Mature'' about dragon ages story?

What was ''mature'' about ME2s story?

The violence of the world is very well dcisplayed or hinted at, there's plenty death, misery, betrayal, romance, sex (clothes or not, it's still sex) even dismembering, perversion, rape and simply a whole ton of elements that could be defined mature or  (at the end of the list) not suitable for a teen audience.
They don't need to be always graphically portrayed to be in the game. The fact you think that fully or partially graphical sex is "needed" to make a game mature or "not censored" is laughable at best.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 06 février 2010 - 07:15 .

[daoster]

Vixxen1984 wrote...


"You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unacceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your job to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

Actually, Stanley - you're wrong - absolutely wrong here. Yes, it's not your job to do the parenting, but it is your job to listen to what your paying customers want - and a majority wanted some of this stuff. Yes they bought your product anyways, but they definitely aren't nearly as excited as the potential was for them to be. And yes, we, as paying customers, are YOUR bosses, YOUR dictators, not the other way around - so actually WE dictate what content you should include or not include in your games.

In economics, you understand that markets listen to and react to demand. If you don't cater to the demands of your customers - it will hurt you in some way, whatever way, in the end. You may think it's not a collaborative effort, but in the end, in reality, just indirectly - it is. You, as a business must listen to and cater to the demands of your true bosses, who pay your paycheck - your customers. If you don't you'll suffer the consequences in some way. Right now you have the power of being a monopoly on such a type of game, but now that other game developers see such a demand is here, they'll be more of a supply, and if they do this all better than you (by learning from your successes and mistakes) - you're sales numbers will suffer and you will not be moving towards you're potential. Listen to your customers, and you will be greatly rewarded - don't listen you'll be doing it at your own peril.

I've addressed this before.  Using the logic that since "we as customers pay your wages, we the consumers are your bosses" is stretching it to the max.  Using this logic, all products by all producers should be built specifically to the wants of the fans.  But it simply doesn't work like that.  The demand generated by consumers isn't the nitpicky individual requests of consumers, or even overall consensus of consumers, but rather with how much is actually sold (compared to how much is produced).  

2 Million sold already, consumers are reacting to the market, free market for all!  

Bioware's bosses are now EA (not the customers, as widely believed!).  EA's bosses are the board, the board answer to the shareholders.  And shareholders care about the profit, they don't care whether or not there's nudity in the game, or whether or not its a good game.  They care whether or not a particular product will be profitable, and I'd be surprised if Mass Effect won't generate a profit for EA.  

[Dionkey]

In all honesty people need to chill out. This started with people complaining because of the game not having enough nudity and that Bioware backed down due to Fox News. Mass Effect was never about sex scenes to further the story it was about the conversations between the characters to form the scene, whether it be side boob in ME1 or Tali's helmet in ME2 it doesn't matter.

Many people are taking offense to Woo's argument because of the dictatorship thing and that wanting nudity is immature. I believe the dictatorship thing is total bull**** but asking for of nudity argument is correct. He may have worded his argument wrong (wrong meaning in a more offensive manner) but telling him that Bioware needs to put full frontal nudity scenes in is complete and utter garbage. It would do nothing to help the game but instead get tonnes of media heat and for what? 30 second cutscene so 12 year old's can ****** to it?

Get over yourselves people.

Modifié par Dionkey, 06 février 2010 - 07:31 .

[Ashton808]

Cheetos are tasty.