954 réponses à ce sujet

[Paladin Culebra]

Stanley Woo wrote...

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

I don't think we need nudity in movies either, oh lets remove violence in games and movies too. Lets next censor news media so that they can no longer show war footage on broadcast T.V.

To the original point of this post, I find it sad that in the "land of the free" that we allow such a twisted set of views. We americans have no problem allowing our 13 year old son to play GTA with the cop shooting, prostitute beating, robbing houses and car jacking. But put in a TASTEFUL plot device such as the wonderful gift of love making(MASS EFFECT 1) between two characters who have developed a relationship with each other and parents flip and the media wants to burn the producers alive.

Let's keep the politics out of the discussion, please. Eavh region will have its own laws, cultural bias, and tolerances, and this discussion tends to put people on the defensive. This leads to arguments that we'd rather not have on our forums.

Seriously game Devs need to grow some nads, it the game is rated M then let the rating speak for itself, it is NOT your job to parent the child. If the actual parents lack that ability and decide to use media to parent the child then perhaps they should invest in any number of parents for dummies books out there that might help them!!!

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I haven't read the entire thread, I actually came across this on Kotaku...so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been said yet.


If game developement is not a collaborative effort between devs and players, why do I have the option to share usage data with Bioware? As I understand it, it's so the developers can see how I play the game, what parts seem to be trouble areas for me, etc. This information is then used to sculpt the sequel.

I even remember hearing two of Bioware's brass talking on a podcast (I forget if it was Kotaku's or Major Nelsons'), and they said that the changes to the combat system was in responce to player feedback.


I'm not saying that you should try to appease everyone who whines that something didn't go their way, but effectively giving your customers the finger and saying 'we make it how we like, deal with it' while seeking ways to improve via feedback is a little two faced.



Or maybe I'm wrong and every decision in the game was made with zero feedback from the community.

[allothernamesweretaken]

ME1's contained sideboob and ass.

You people honestly thing that an 80's action movie sex scene is a step above characterization, emotion, and depth?

Get. The. ****. Laid.

The ME2 sex scenes were far and away more mature than the ones in ME1. Thanks for playing into the typical gamer stereotypes, dip****s.


As someone on Kotaku said "I love it. Bioware tries to do interactive romance
in a way that's not like a creepy Japanese Dating Sim, and fans blow a
gasket."

Edit:As for the clothes: Well, gee, maybe they aren't having sex yet. Ever heard of foreplay? Oh wait, no you haven't. You're complaining about a lack of digital breasts, you've obviously never actually had sex.

Modifié par allothernamesweretaken, 06 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Tokuraws]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but that bit about game development? If it's just your game, and you don't care at all what the gamers say.. I suggest you close down your forums, not ask for input, or any of that stuff. Hell I have seen interviews with YOUR OWN people claiming that you "listened" to the players and fans about changes made in ME2 from ME1. Was that a lie? I respect bioware and what you do. I love your games, but you sir are the wrong person to be working in public relations.

[Hizoka003]

is it just me or is it seem kinda weird that its ok to see peoples insides but not peoples outsides?

[BamBam38]

Stanley Woo wrote...

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

I don't think we need nudity in movies either, oh lets remove violence in games and movies too. Lets next censor news media so that they can no longer show war footage on broadcast T.V.

To the original point of this post, I find it sad that in the "land of the free" that we allow such a twisted set of views. We americans have no problem allowing our 13 year old son to play GTA with the cop shooting, prostitute beating, robbing houses and car jacking. But put in a TASTEFUL plot device such as the wonderful gift of love making(MASS EFFECT 1) between two characters who have developed a relationship with each other and parents flip and the media wants to burn the producers alive.

Let's keep the politics out of the discussion, please. Eavh region will have its own laws, cultural bias, and tolerances, and this discussion tends to put people on the defensive. This leads to arguments that we'd rather not have on our forums.

Seriously game Devs need to grow some nads, it the game is rated M then let the rating speak for itself, it is NOT your job to parent the child. If the actual parents lack that ability and decide to use media to parent the child then perhaps they should invest in any number of parents for dummies books out there that might help them!!!

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I totally agree Stanley...

[Drakron]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...
As someone on Kotaku said "I love it. Bioware tries to do interactive romance
in a way that's not like a creepy Japanese Dating Sim, and fans blow a
gasket."

Yes, someone on Kotaku have thinks a speed dial romance can beat ... let me think, Little Busters (Key visual novel with a all ages CERO rating) or Clannad (also Key,  also all ages).

Heck, why not Tokomeki Memorial from Konami that dates back to 1996, that as anyone could guess is also all ages.

Then again, I bet that someone on Kataku is a pimple face virgin that never kissed a girl.

Modifié par Drakron, 06 février 2010 - 10:13 .

[Xpardox91X]

 Well, lets see... ever since BioWare fell under the power of EA's sith lord... have you noticed their games areless... BioWare-ish material?

Take Knights of the Old Republic for example... spectacular!

Mass Effect... the pwnage!

Mass Effect 2... shooter without all the RPG that we EXPECT!!!!!! from BioWare.

EA is a parasite. They find a health host, latch on, and suck what makes the host healthy away, leaving a husk (in this case, just a name of a company)

And of course BioWare's Ray isn't gonna straight out say anything, but you know he is disappointed in what they had to cut and take from the game to fit EA's "standards".

[allothernamesweretaken]

Xpardox91X wrote...

 Well, lets see... ever since BioWare fell under the power of EA's sith lord... have you noticed their games areless... BioWare-ish material?

Take Knights of the Old Republic for example... spectacular!

Mass Effect... the pwnage!

Mass Effect 2... shooter without all the RPG that we EXPECT!!!!!! from BioWare.

EA is a parasite. They find a health host, latch on, and suck what makes the host healthy away, leaving a husk (in this case, just a name of a company)

And of course BioWare's Ray isn't gonna straight out say anything, but you know he is disappointed in what they had to cut and take from the game to fit EA's "standards".

You know, there's more to an RPG than stats. Like, y'know, ****ing ROLE PLAYING, a part of ME2 that was drastically improved along with the writing and combat.

Also, there's a game called Dragon Age. Yuh might want to look at it.

Drakron wrote...

allothernamesweretaken wrote...
As someone on Kotaku said "I love it. Bioware tries to do interactive romance
in a way that's not like a creepy Japanese Dating Sim, and fans blow a
gasket."

Yes,
someone on Kotaku have thinks a speed dial romance can beat ... let me
think, Little Busters (Key visual novel with a all ages CERO rating) or
Clannad (also Key,  also all ages).

Heck, why not Tokomeki Memorial from Konami that dates back to 1996, that as anyone could guess is also all ages.

Then again, I bet that someone on Kataku is a pimple face virgin that never kissed a girl.

Please, show me in that statement where he said every japanese dating sim is creepy, and/or ****. No one said ME2's romances are perfect, no one said their the best around.

Modifié par allothernamesweretaken, 06 février 2010 - 10:20 .

[Xpardox91X]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...
Edit:As for the clothes: Well, gee, maybe they aren't having sex yet. Ever heard of foreplay? Oh wait, no you haven't. You're complaining about a lack of digital breasts, you've obviously never actually had sex.

Oh shut up. Thats not why. Here's a hint: That old stereotype of gamers being scrawny little pale kids wasting away with a controller in their hand is totally false. If a game is aiming to be realistic (despite the whole Sci-Fi thing lol), then by god, if you have a relationship with a character, you might as well show the conclusion to it. I'm not talking a full sex thing, what Mass Effect 1 [Bioware] did was perfect, it showed as much (or less) than your average primetime series.

Seriously, nobody blame BioWare for the absence of what was in the first game, because you see that little EA logo on your Mass Effect 2 case? You do? IT'S THEIR FAULT!

[B10Reaper]

I'm late to the party, but this is hilarious. Bioware claims to not respond to anything people whine about, but anything that anyone complained about is gone from mass effect 2. And then we get dry humping for a certain sex scene that stays fully clothed through the entire act after the original sex scenes caught crap? Yeah good troll claiming it was a personal choice. If 90% of the game wasn't influenced by fan whining, I might be inclined to believe you, but until then, pull the other one, it plays music.

My favorite part was when it was claimed that EA wasn't affecting the quality of the games. I lol'd. Keep up the trolling Bioware, just don't screw up mass effect 3.

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

You know, there's more to
an RPG than stats. Like, y'know, ****ing ROLE PLAYING, a part of ME2
that was drastically improved along with the writing and combat.

No. Neither of those were improved. The writing was worse. We need Drew back. and especially not combat. Don't believe me? Clips and limited ammo. Goodnight.

Modifié par B10Reaper, 06 février 2010 - 10:26 .

[allothernamesweretaken]

Xpardox91X wrote...

allothernamesweretaken wrote...
Edit:As for the clothes: Well, gee, maybe they aren't having sex yet. Ever heard of foreplay? Oh wait, no you haven't. You're complaining about a lack of digital breasts, you've obviously never actually had sex.

Oh shut up. Thats not why. Here's a hint: That old stereotype of gamers being scrawny little pale kids wasting away with a controller in their hand is totally false. If a game is aiming to be realistic (despite the whole Sci-Fi thing lol), then by god, if you have a relationship with a character, you might as well show the conclusion to it. I'm not talking a full sex thing, what Mass Effect 1 [Bioware] did was perfect, it showed as much (or less) than your average primetime series.

Seriously, nobody blame BioWare for the absence of what was in the first game, because you see that little EA logo on your Mass Effect 2 case? You do? IT'S THEIR FAULT!

Gamers have got to be the only group of people that would **** about there being no nudity in the culmination of a romance subplot. Please, show me a film, television or literature buff that would make these same complaints.

[Xpardox91X]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

Xpardox91X wrote...

 
Mass Effect 2... shooter without all the RPG that we EXPECT!!!!!! from BioWare.

And of course BioWare's Ray isn't gonna straight out say anything, but you know he is disappointed in what they had to cut and take from the game to fit EA's "standards".

You know, there's more to an RPG than stats. Like, y'know, ****ing ROLE PLAYING, a part of ME2 that was drastically improved along with the writing and combat.

Also, there's a game called Dragon Age. Yuh might want to look at it.

Well, sure you play a role, as a class and a Character (Shepard). I mean what BioWare has done before like with Knights of the Old Republic, you saw your character evolve from a standard soldier, and become a Jedi (or Dark Lord). The tons of Stats upgrades are also a big part of it.

Mass Effect 2 for instance, is really cut limiting down some of the things. I'm not technically complaining [here], but I will say that Mass Effect 1 had much more of an RPG feel to it.

[Xpardox91X]

This really isn't the place for a flame war, and I won't be sucked further into an argument over a damn forum. Note: *Further*



I'm done. Will not feed into this subject any longer.

[allothernamesweretaken]

Xpardox91X wrote...

This really isn't the place for a flame war, and I won't be sucked further into an argument over a damn forum. Note: *Further*

I'm done. Will not feed into this subject any longer.

You can't imagine a serious buff of an other medium complaining about this juvenile ****, can you?

[Drakron]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

Please, show me in that statement where he said every japanese dating sim is creepy, and/or ****. No one said ME2's romances are perfect, no one said their the best around.

Oh he did, I could point out The Singles that was The Sims with sex but by just saying "japanese dating sims" he put everything in the same bag, just like if I say "Americans are stupid" I am making a broad generalization.

[Xpardox91X]

You'd be amazed. and im 18, and yes you probably *are*older than me, but Gaming as a whole isn't a kids pastime anymore.



I think the main thing that people were complaining about is that, "The first one had it, why not the Second."

[Pfor]

Xpardox91X wrote...

 Well, lets see... ever since BioWare fell under the power of EA's sith lord... have you noticed their games areless... BioWare-ish material?

Take Knights of the Old Republic for example... spectacular!

Mass Effect... the pwnage!

Mass Effect 2... shooter without all the RPG that we EXPECT!!!!!! from BioWare.

EA is a parasite. They find a health host, latch on, and suck what makes the host healthy away, leaving a husk (in this case, just a name of a company)

And of course BioWare's Ray isn't gonna straight out say anything, but you know he is disappointed in what they had to cut and take from the game to fit EA's "standards".

If you don't like it Bioware have PLENTY of games worth your time from pre-EA takeover. Play those. 

[Xpardox91X]

Pfor wrote...
If you don't like it Bioware -edit- *has* PLENTY of games worth your time from pre-EA takeover. Play those. 

I still do. =P

[LordRussell]

well ok 13 pages of mindless chat about something not needed at all in a game what you should be looking/asking for is epic story or new powers or ablitys or more things to do with your ship maby some dlc but not as something lamb as this id like to see wrex on my team or maby some other characters from ms1 maby a mission that lets us see earth idk but you all will complane about every thing its human nature i gess

[allothernamesweretaken]

No. Neither of those were improved. The writing was worse. We need Drew back. and especially not combat. Don't believe me? Clips and limited ammo. Goodnight.

That's you grand argument? Clips and limited ammo? That's it? Well, I guess System Shock 2, and Deus Ex have worse combat. How about the fact that combat in ME2 feels more immediate, controls better, and isn't bogged down by needless stats. Combat in ME is a shooter. For ****s sake ME1 wasn't complex in the first place. You picked whatever had the biggest numbers, spammed all your powers, and that's about it.
No, ME2's combat isn't perfect. Biotics can be nigh useless, for instance.

As for the writing:I don't know what to say. If you think ME2 has worse writing than 1, you are simply a delusional Angry Internet Man.

Note: I *like* stats, I'm a died in the wool PnP gamer. I also actually do think SS2 has worse combat, but not for that reason.

Xpardox91X wrote...

You'd be amazed. and im 18, and yes you probably *are*older than me, but Gaming as a whole isn't a kids pastime anymore.

I think the main thing that people were complaining about is that, "The first one had it, why not the Second."

What makes you think I think that? I'm angry because people are playing into that stereotype. Contrary to what a lot of the people here seem to believe, sex and nudity is not the end all be all of a relationship. If gaming ever wants to be taken seriously as an artistic medium, we need to move past this idiotic, fratboy mentality. A game where the reward for going after someone is the relationship itself, rather than some digital sex, for instance. There's nothing *wrong* with sex and nudity, mind, but gaming in its current state is nothing more than a series of summer action movies.

Drakron wrote...

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

Please,
show me in that statement where he said every japanese dating sim is
creepy, and/or ****. No one said ME2's romances are perfect, no one
said their the best around.

Oh he did, I could
point out The Singles that was The Sims with sex but by just saying
"japanese dating sims" he put everything in the same bag, just like if
I say "Americans are stupid" I am making a broad generalization.

Well, I'm sorry if that's what you took out of that. Trust me, I would *love* for an RPG with romance subplots that had the depth of a genuinely good dating sim.

Modifié par allothernamesweretaken, 06 février 2010 - 10:46 .

[Slikeer]

At this rate Bioware might just decide no romance at all if you keep complaining about it. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Just let them do their job if you have a problem with it then go play another game.

[Kalfear]

Tokuraws wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but that bit about game development? If it's just your game, and you don't care at all what the gamers say.. I suggest you close down your forums, not ask for input, or any of that stuff. Hell I have seen interviews with YOUR OWN people claiming that you "listened" to the players and fans about changes made in ME2 from ME1. Was that a lie? I respect bioware and what you do. I love your games, but you sir are the wrong person to be working in public relations.

Well said. well said

Stanley I think you should stop while your ahead (or tied at least). Its pretty obvious your not going to answer the mature questions posed to you and pick and choose what to reply to casting the side opposite yours in a false ill light.

I really wonder whats gone on at Bioware in this last year causeyou all use to be, well better then what your protraying yourselves as now.

As Tokuraws said, I have read many interveiws and seen many videos where different Bioware personalities say customer feedback is important to them and Bioware listens but because you cant/dont agree with this topic its suddenly immature and useless and we the customer base need to shut up and accept what were given? Is that really the message you want to send your customers?

Again, how arrogent and rather childish of you to say such a thing. I mean one scan of the types agreeing with you in this thread would send a normal thinking person running to the other side outta fear of being associated to "those types" normally but you insist on embracing this short sighted and ill mannered position. I dont get it, I really dont.

As Tokuraws asked, I guess my only question at this point in time is "was Bioware lieing all those times they said customers and feedback mattered to them?" Is the new company policy to insult and talk down to anyone you personally dont agree with? Seems to me your taking this whole "Shooter attitude" to far but obviously thats a lesson you need to learn on your own.

[allothernamesweretaken]

Kalfear wrote...

Tokuraws wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but that bit about game development? If it's just your game, and you don't care at all what the gamers say.. I suggest you close down your forums, not ask for input, or any of that stuff. Hell I have seen interviews with YOUR OWN people claiming that you "listened" to the players and fans about changes made in ME2 from ME1. Was that a lie? I respect bioware and what you do. I love your games, but you sir are the wrong person to be working in public relations.

Well said. well said

Stanley I think you should stop while your ahead (or tied at least). Its pretty obvious your not going to answer the mature questions posed to you and pick and choose what to reply to casting the side opposite yours in a false ill light.

I really wonder whats gone on at Bioware in this last year causeyou all use to be, well better then what your protraying yourselves as now.

As Tokuraws said, I have read many interveiws and seen many videos where different Bioware personalities say customer feedback is important to them and Bioware listens but because you cant/dont agree with this topic its suddenly immature and useless and we the customer base need to shut up and accept what were given? Is that really the message you want to send your customers?

Again, how arrogent and rather childish of you to say such a thing. I mean one scan of the types agreeing with you in this thread would send a normal thinking person running to the other side outta fear of being associated to "those types" normally but you insist on embracing this short sighted and ill mannered position. I dont get it, I really dont.

As Tokuraws asked, I guess my only question at this point in time is "was Bioware lieing all those times they said customers and feedback mattered to them?" Is the new company policy to insult and talk down to anyone you personally dont agree with? Seems to me your taking this whole "Shooter attitude" to far but obviously thats a lesson you need to learn on your own.

I agree with Stanley, for the post part. ""Fans are clingy, complaining dip****s who will never ever be
grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their
shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you will be for it." Blah blah blah, buy a Bioware teeshirt

Modifié par allothernamesweretaken, 06 février 2010 - 10:49 .

[cmbreault]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

As someone on Kotaku said "I love it. Bioware tries to do interactive romance
in a way that's not like a creepy Japanese Dating Sim, and fans blow a
gasket."

"I'm a mature adult from Kotaku, where the most visited posts of the week are always about boobs in games, boob mousepads, or new and pervy Japanese games"

Kotaku is one of my favorite games sites (I came here from that link also), but you know it's true...

[allothernamesweretaken]

cmbreault wrote...

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

As someone on Kotaku said "I love it. Bioware tries to do interactive romance
in a way that's not like a creepy Japanese Dating Sim, and fans blow a
gasket."

"I'm a mature adult from Kotaku, where the most visited posts of the week are always about boobs in games, boob mousepads, or new and pervy Japanese games"

Kotaku is one of my favorite games sites (I came here from that link also), but you know it's true...

I just go to Kotaku, because my main source of game news is PC only, and I trust Kotaku more than, say, Gamespot or IGN; so, yeah you're pretty damn right. The boob mousepads were funny, though

Modifié par allothernamesweretaken, 06 février 2010 - 11:10 .