954 réponses à ce sujet

[Traumacrazy]

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't really think nudity is needed in the game. If you really want nudity I'm sure you can google some porn video and see all the XXX sex you want.

I don't think we need nudity in movies either, oh lets remove violence in games and movies too. Lets next censor news media so that they can no longer show war footage on broadcast T.V.

To the original point of this post, I find it sad that in the "land of the free" that we allow such a twisted set of views. We americans have no problem allowing our 13 year old son to play GTA with the cop shooting, prostitute beating, robbing houses and car jacking. But put in a TASTEFUL plot device such as the wonderful gift of love making(MASS EFFECT 1) between two characters who have developed a relationship with each other and parents flip and the media wants to burn the producers alive.

Seriously game Devs need to grow some nads, it the game is rated M then let the rating speak for itself, it is NOT your job to parent the child. If the actual parents lack that ability and decide to use media to parent the child then perhaps they should invest in any number of parents for dummies books out there that might help them!!!

mmmmhmm **** straight

[sirandar]

I have to agree with the OP to some extent



ME2 has murder, mass murder, slavery, torture, mind rape, erotic dancers, poisoning, genocide, theft, looting ..... but not a consensual non-casual sex scene. Sad ..... Done properly without the addition of bits we don't really need to see in a game, it would have been a great addition.



BUT ... I for one don't want to see the gaming industry slide down into porn any faster than its going

to.



Two Words ... Target Market

[Darth Drago]

Now I haven’t gotten that far in ME2 to know what the romance leads to but if its been cut down to some lame PG rating then I have to agree that it is a bad move. The bar was set to a mature level in ME1 so why not keep it at the same level of even push the nudity a bit more. As long as its done in an artful way like in ME1 and not some lame thing like God of War did I don’t see an issue with it.



On the same note, sort of at least, now ME2 has quite a bit of swearing as well as smoking and alcohol. So why beef it up on that level of maturity and drop the slight nudity you got a glimpse of from ME1?

[BramAlam12345]

I don't see why it is needed, and I fully support Bioware's decision. Mature does not equal nudity. Anyway, if you want sexy, there is plenty of sexy in the game.

[Stanley Woo]

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

I don't think we need nudity in movies either, oh lets remove violence in games and movies too. Lets next censor news media so that they can no longer show war footage on broadcast T.V.

To the original point of this post, I find it sad that in the "land of the free" that we allow such a twisted set of views. We americans have no problem allowing our 13 year old son to play GTA with the cop shooting, prostitute beating, robbing houses and car jacking. But put in a TASTEFUL plot device such as the wonderful gift of love making(MASS EFFECT 1) between two characters who have developed a relationship with each other and parents flip and the media wants to burn the producers alive.

Let's keep the politics out of the discussion, please. Eavh region will have its own laws, cultural bias, and tolerances, and this discussion tends to put people on the defensive. This leads to arguments that we'd rather not have on our forums.

Seriously game Devs need to grow some nads, it the game is rated M then let the rating speak for itself, it is NOT your job to parent the child. If the actual parents lack that ability and decide to use media to parent the child then perhaps they should invest in any number of parents for dummies books out there that might help them!!!

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

[llFlapjackll]

Let me be honest some people just want a sign of achievement for what they have accomplished and maybe see a quick nip or something more sexual than a unzip of a jacket. In Me1 you said Woah and in me2 you said ehh.. see the difference?

Modifié par llFlapjackll, 05 février 2010 - 06:13 .

[Crackseed]

I actually prefer ME2's romances. I mean yeah the ME1 was very tasteful, but it's not required to enjoy the romantic interactions with your LI of choice. ME2 built it up better as you spend more time talking to them and the climax ties in to how the character is. No issues with Bioware's choice.

[Kolaris8472]

llFlapjackll wrote...

Let me be honest some people just want a sign of achievement for what they have accomplished and maybe see a quick nip or something more sexual than a unzip of a jacket. In Me1 you said Woah and in me2 you said ehh.. see the difference?

No, because my reaction was reversed. I was into it for the characters, not their artfully posed body-shots. 

[Zero9ee]

I'm just happy that there is romance in the series, and the opportunity to develop that. It's part of the emotional investment in the game and the attachment to the characters. It's what makes the experience more real and involving, especially so in ME2, where things are so much more character-driven and your faithfulness is tested (along with everything else, like your leadership and courage, etc!).



From my ideal playthough, I love that my love scene in ME1 was so passionate compared to anything that ME2 delivers, as that intensity kept my rather flirty Shepard loyal to Kaidan. But, really, in the end, it was the characters and how they developed through the games that made it all happen. For me, looking at the photo on my desk was enough.



Dammit, no one does this sort of thing better than BioWare. It's very well judged.

[Mezinger]

sirandar wrote...

I have to agree with the OP to some extent

ME2 has murder, mass murder, slavery, torture, mind rape, erotic dancers, poisoning, genocide, theft, looting ..... but not a consensual non-casual sex scene. Sad ..... Done properly without the addition of bits we don't really need to see in a game, it would have been a great addition.

BUT ... I for one don't want to see the gaming industry slide down into porn any faster than its going
to.

Two Words ... Target Market

Don't forget smoking among the deadly sins this game has!

[Hatmonster]

I actually agree with the way this was handled in ME2. The emotion was there, and story-wise that's really all that matters. (In my opinion at least.)

[Mezinger]

I haven't made it this far in the game yet... but when I do I won't be surprised if the scene is less immersive / satisfying than the ME1... which has nothing to do with seeing bits like in French cinema... no thanks!

[Mezinger]

I haven't made it this far in the game yet... but when I do I won't be surprised if the scene is less immersive / satisfying than the ME1... which has nothing to do with seeing bits like in French cinema... no thanks!

[Orogenic]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I can understand how it must seem to players who really, really, really want to see HBO- and Showtime-like sex and nudity in our stories, but that's not what makes our games great, and ironically, insisting on sex and nudity tends to make people look immature. Just because you'd like to see somehing--anything--doesn't mean that we will do it or agree with your reasons to include/not include it.

and to both sides of the argument, let's please keep the insults out of the discussion. Thank you.

Granted, focusing on this issue makes people look rather silly.

I will admit that "PG" sequences in an otherwise "R-rated" storyline just seem a bit out of place from an immersion standpoint.

I can certainly understand the decision  to limit these sequences considering the potential problems with worldwide distribution and variability of laws and cultural norms.

As someone who is longtime fan and who as also been a vocal critic of the changes in ME 2, I'd also like to say after two playthroughs that this game is still a masterpiece and head and shoulders above any other game out there.  I really did feel that ME 1 had more depth, but I can certainly see evidence of the drive to innovate and improve the game in many places.

I would have to place the Bioware crowd in the same category as CCP... people that I (hope) will never stop pushing to improve their game, and people for whom the creative process is a labor of love.  If you build it, they will come.  I will anyway : )

[phimseto]

I didn't need nudity in the sex scenes, but it did seem silly to go into a lawless strip club and be confronted by an army fully-clothed strippers. *shrug* Seemed a lost opportunity.



However, my understanding is that Bioware is going to make up for this by having the ME3 collectors edition centerfold be made up entirely of Fornax centerfolds.

[Zimmy42]

Stanley Woo wrote...

It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called "mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I'm a bit loathe to comment since I've only seen the renegade Jack scene so far but I did find it seemed somewhat more PG and almost self censored. The ME1 scenes just had the emotions right (Liara more so than the others) and the scene with jack seemed almost there then cut away...

As for actual nudity, couldn't give a damn to be honest. And with Jack hardly need anymore anyway, but the scenes should be reflect the emotion of the relationship and should make the player feel something. I know Bioware can be very good at this, so I'll reserve an actual judgement on the quality of ME2 romances until I see a few more.

The others could be more rounded than the *rough and tumble* with Jack we'll see.

As for the Dragon Age comments, only saw Leliana's one but I actually thought it was brilliant. Sweet, romantic, passionate it embodied all the aspects I loved about Leliana's character. The fact she was wearing underwear didn't mean anything when the scene was that strong.

More emotion and power yes, but nudity and sex are such blatant ways to do that and are hardly needed.

[AlanC9]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Just because you'd like to see somehing--anything--doesn't mean that we will do it or agree with your reasons to include/not include it..

Absolutely true ... but the reason these threads keep coming up is that Bio's reasons for doing or not doing these things aren't clear. Not that you're under any obligation to explain how you decide things, but if you don't you're going to have to expect a certain amount of speculation.

[fortunesque]

I think the way the ME1 scenes were done was extremely tasteful. You could tell that they were naked, but you didn't see anything. It wasn't meant to be pornographic in any stretch of the imagination.

For ME3, I'd like to see a return to what ME1 did. Have the couple cuddling naked underneath the sheets afterward or something. That way, it is tastefully implied that sex happened and it isn't like in ME2 where they're still wearing almost full clothing. That's the issue I have with the ME2 scenes and especially the DAO scenes. I don't want to see a bunch of naked people, I just want the scene to make a little more sense as far as clothing is concerned.

Modifié par fortunesque, 05 février 2010 - 06:24 .

[SethSteiner]

@Stanley Woo

If you introduce "dirty" places like Omega or Choras Nest, a lack of nudity just make it less believable. Of course you can do what you want as a developer but you shouldn`t think that gamers really think everything is done because you wanted it in that way. Every gamer knew about the prudity in america. "Oh a nipple, end is nigh!" For me as a german player everytime I get to a "dark corner of the universe" or a brothel it`s like a joke. All the dancers wear the same clothes, no variety at all and no one reallly shows anything. Omega is good and much more believable than Chroas Nest was but still it`s not as dirty and believable as it could be. You didn`t even need to show blank breasts (even if it would be a step forward), it would be enough if the dancers would wear different clothes. Even Kelly wears that outfit!



Someone here came with "than watch porn!" but the people who complain about that topic don`t want porn, they want improvement and a mature handling. The gaming industry is to shy to show something but at the same time we have tv series and movies where it comes to the point. So if you as developers say "ah we don`t want to" it`s much more like "ah we are afraid!" because the industry in a whole does nothing! If you would say that, when at the same time many games would show sexual content everyone could understand it. Now we are in a time were games still need to grow up and sexual content is a part of it. If you want to show a dirty place with drugs, dancers or and violence, you should show sexual content to or it`s just not as believable as it should be. I would expect more sexuality in those corners of the universe but no I get the same dancers from the first one which is just 0 improvement. I have a problem to take it serious and that also applies to love scenes if the camera stops before nipples.

[wolfwarp]

I enjoy the love scene in ME 1.



Not sure if I could call that romance in ME 2.



Hence, I agree with the OP.

[umlkj4556]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice.

the question is, why having nudity in me 1 but not having in me 2. there simply must be a reason for that little step back. why was it ok in me 1 but not in me 2?

[Nyjahl]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I can understand how it must seem to players who really, really, really want to see HBO- and Showtime-like sex and nudity in our stories, but that's not what makes our games great, and ironically, insisting on sex and nudity tends to make people look immature. Just because you'd like to see somehing--anything--doesn't mean that we will do it or agree with your reasons to include/not include it.

and to both sides of the argument, let's please keep the insults out of the discussion. Thank you.

I rarely post on forums, and often remain the silent minority, so I will start by saying that I don't think I have seen a more tastfully done love scene in a game to date before or since after ME1. I also admit, there really is no need for them, unless they serve a purpose in the game.  But, from what I understand, I don't think most are really looking for raunchy HBO/Showtime sex (for me, a passionate hug and kiss, fade to black, then a snuggle scene after is all that's needed), nor is anyone (well, me at least) being "immature" about it.

I think that most felt there was a step back taken with the whole thing. I guess that sometimes, the smallest things cause the biggest damage...

[Avissel]

My only issue when it comes to the whole sex and nudity issue is that if the scene is in there, at least have it make sense. My issue with with DAO sex scenes was that the characters were clearly in the act..but still in their underpants. My issue is not "Hey I want to see the nekkids" or "Cover that up, my poor eyes!" it's more along the lines of "You know that just seems awkward."



That being said I didn't have any issue with the stuff in ME2, it was tasteful and well done.



Though I will have to ask Woo not to make light of Bunky the Wonder Clown, lest he bring his terrible wraith and vengeance down upon us all.

[banshee768]

What is the big deal, really? It's like the folks wanting multiplayer for Mass Effect. Not going to happen. And no matter how many threads you make about this very subject, nothing is going to change. Buy Morrowind or Oblivion and download one of the countless nude mods for those games.