954 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

Name-calling also does not contribute positively to this discussion, Kalfear. You don't have to read all the rules of conduct that you agreed to abide by when you signed up to participate in our community, just one rule, but I suspect that's asking too much from a rulebreaker like you!



See how unproductive that is? Let's get back on-topic, please. And to some of the newbies to the discussion, please read through some of the actual arguments before coming in here with your "you want to see boobs in videogame? lamer n00b!" type comments. This discussion went beyond that point 20 pages ago, and I'm sure folks would prefer not having to spend half of each page reminding people that "I wanna see boobs in a videogame" isn't the argument here. Thank you.

[Manny NL]

 I find it unbelievable that there really is a discussion about sex and nudity in game, while we (or you) apear to find it  no problem that the game is filled with violence and killing!!!! Apparently it is ok to shoot and kill, but it is wrong to love and have a good f*** (especially after killing some aliens) !!


Sorry if i am wrong, but i bet it is mostly americans who complain about sex in (violent) games, since they are known for their hypocrism. 

Modifié par Manny NL, 16 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[Umagaar]

Manny NL wrote...

 I find it unbelievable that there really is a discussion about sex and nudity in game, while we (or you) apear to find it  no problem that the game is filled with violence and killing!!!! Apperently it is ok to shoot and kill people, but it is wrong to love and have a good f*** after killing some aliens !!


Sorry if i am wrong, but i bet it is mostly americans who complain about sex in (violent) games, since they are known for their hypocrism. 

Agreed

[SunglareAK]

Manny NL wrote...

 I find it unbelievable that there really is a discussion about sex and nudity in game, while we (or you) apear to find it  no problem that the game is filled with violence and killing!!!! Apparently it is ok to shoot and kill, but it is wrong to love and have a good f*** (especially after killing some aliens) !!


Sorry if i am wrong, but i bet it is mostly americans who complain about sex in (violent) games, since they are known for their hypocrism. 

Really? Just after Stanley posted about no name calling. You slam Americans? Time to climb off your high-horse.
Every country in the world are just as much of Hypocrites as Americans, but i digress since this isn't related to the topic at hand.

What we do know based off what Stanley said is that it was biowares own decision to change how the love scenes were done. Not some lame reporting that was on FOX, that was more about one man who has issues with games. Nor was is EA's doing. I'm thinking that they are holding the big romance for ME3. ME2 was about being faithful to your original romance or do you start something new. 

There is also the Stanley Woo anti romance office protest theory that i believe holds water,  "but that's just my personal opinion, no need to tell anybody about it."

[Raveos]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't really think nudity is needed in the game. If you really want nudity I'm sure you can google some porn video and see all the XXX sex you want.

EXACTLY!!  Are we that pathetic that we need to see porn in a video game?  The way it was handled in ME1 was perfect imo.  Just enough to get the point across, but  not too over the top to make you feel like you're a perv.

Modifié par Raveos, 16 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[Dragonfable of Dain]

In my opionion the romances in ME2 were tastefully done allthough a bit short in my opionion

[SunglareAK]

Raveos wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't really think nudity is needed in the game. If you really want nudity I'm sure you can google some porn video and see all the XXX sex you want.

EXACTLY!!  Are we that pathetic that we need to see porn in a video game?  The way it was handled in ME1 was perfect imo.  Just enough to get the point across, but  not too over the top to make you feel like you're a perv.   If you want to cry about xxx stuff, go rent a porn movie or get a girlfriend.

Yay we have a winner, somebody else that has failed to read the thread and discuss the issue at hand.

That aside there are those of us who do get laid, watch porn, and still like T&A in our video games, what now?
Guess some of us just like T&A more than the next guy.

[Murmillos]

Raveos wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't really think nudity is needed in the game. If you really want nudity I'm sure you can google some porn video and see all the XXX sex you want.

EXACTLY!!  Are we that pathetic that we need to see porn in a video game?  The way it was handled in ME1 was perfect imo.  Just enough to get the point across, but  not too over the top to make you feel like you're a perv.

If most of you care to read, thats what many wanted: the same as ME1 - and that was tame and tastefully done.  Now, for ME2 - they turned tail and ran away from that.  Hell, they even killed all your ME1 relationships in the process.

We don't need ME2/ME3 to be a digital sex flick - but having your "relationship" scenes look like they were made for a G movie - then yea - ME did shy away (and in a bad way).

[Raveos]

I agree, In Mass Effect, it was done right. Perhaps ME2 was a bit tame, but to see so many people mad at Bioware for this is a little annoying.

[Manny NL]

Murmillos wrote...

Raveos wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't really think nudity is needed in the game. If you really want nudity I'm sure you can google some porn video and see all the XXX sex you want.

EXACTLY!!  Are we that pathetic that we need to see porn in a video game?  The way it was handled in ME1 was perfect imo.  Just enough to get the point across, but  not too over the top to make you feel like you're a perv.

If most of you care to read, thats what many wanted: the same as ME1 - and that was tame and tastefully done.  Now, for ME2 - they turned tail and ran away from that.  Hell, they even killed all your ME1 relationships in the process.

We don't need ME2/ME3 to be a digital sex flick - but having your "relationship" scenes look like they were made for a G movie - then yea - ME did shy away (and in a bad way).

Again; isn't it strange that we use terms as " shy away"  and " tastefully done"  referring to explicit or less explicit sex scenes, while we have no shame in shooting heads, arms and leggs off, preferably with as much blood and details as possible. But if we see a ****** or more, we get " shy"  and call it " distastefull" 

really people, there is something wrong with that (us)!

Modifié par Manny NL, 16 février 2010 - 10:22 .

[DeadInHell]

SunglareAK wrote...

Manny NL wrote...

 I find it unbelievable that there really is a discussion about sex and nudity in game, while we (or you) apear to find it  no problem that the game is filled with violence and killing!!!! Apparently it is ok to shoot and kill, but it is wrong to love and have a good f*** (especially after killing some aliens) !!


Sorry if i am wrong, but i bet it is mostly americans who complain about sex in (violent) games, since they are known for their hypocrism. 

Really? Just after Stanley posted about no name calling. You slam Americans? Time to climb off your high-horse.
Every country in the world are just as much of Hypocrites as Americans, but i digress since this isn't related to the topic at hand.

What we do know based off what Stanley said is that it was biowares own decision to change how the love scenes were done. Not some lame reporting that was on FOX, that was more about one man who has issues with games. Nor was is EA's doing. I'm thinking that they are holding the big romance for ME3. ME2 was about being faithful to your original romance or do you start something new. 

There is also the Stanley Woo anti romance office protest theory that i believe holds water,  "but that's just my personal opinion, no need to tell anybody about it."

I understand your point here, but to be fair, America does have a reputation for being quite puritanical with its media, at least in regards to sex. Of course, we are just as violent, foul-mouthed, horny, etc etc as any other people around the world, but for some reason we tend to stray away from sex and nudity in a way that is really not common in other countries. I think our incredibly uneven treatment of violence and sexuality is pretty hypocritical.

But as you said. Thread topic...I do find it strange that so many people who are obviously united in their love of Bioware and gaming on this forum should be at eachothers' throats in this thread just because some of us would have liked something a little more fleshed out (excuse the pun) in terms of the romances in the game. As others have said, I thought the scene in ME was really well done. They managed to avoid the childish and gratuitous nudity present in something like God Of War or what have you, without just fading to black and simply implying that you may or may not have boned an alien. It was a really finely crafted scene, which comes as no surprise from the guys at Bioware. I expected something similar in ME2, and got something much tamer, and yes, it was a bit of a let down. Not because I don't know how to work the internet and I'm just DYING to see some risky polygons. But because, in a game like this where character interaction and development is a major part of what makes the game, that scene is the culmination of an immense journey. You can cry "NERD" all you want, but Mass Effect has created a universe filled with characters that I genuinely like and have become invested in (in a very healthy way I promise. No Avatar.) and the scene was just a little less than I expected. After all, if you went into a battle and after firing a few shots the screen dimmed and cut away, and the game resumed at the next scene...wouldn't you feel a little cheated? I know, the analogy is extreme. But the relationships you build with other characters is one of the major factors that puts Mass Effect, and Bioware in general, at the top of the current gaming scene. You are Shepard, you shape him (or her), and experience this epic tale alongside your companions who you build a report with over the course of the game (or two games, depending). It's just strange to spend 47 hours right there with Shepard through every brutal decision, every scare, every battle, every humorous exhange, and then be pulled out of this particular "action" as if you were a 12 year old child seeing an R-rated movie with your parents.

But I digress. Though I have my opinion, it is in no way something that I feel the need to be SUPER DUPER angry about, or start some infantile boycott or anything. ME2 is one of the finest gaming experiences I have ever had, but it's inevitable that with a game of this magnitude you will come across some things you don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with the devs on. We all have our own little list of things we might have tweaked in Mass Effect one way or the other. This is one area where I just would have liked a little more. As it is, I'll live. It's still a fantastic game. And one which I apparently like to talk about way too much...

Modifié par BeLikeHan, 16 février 2010 - 11:02 .

[Daskworx]

BeLikeHan wrote...

But as you said. Thread topic...I do find it strange that so many people who are obviously united in their love of Bioware and gaming on this forum should be at eachothers' throats in this thread just because some of us would have liked something a little more fleshed out (excuse the pun) in terms of the romances in the game. As others have said, I thought the scene in ME was really well done. They managed to avoid the childish and gratuitous nudity present in something like God Of War or what have you, without just fading to black and simply implying that you may or may not have boned an alien. It was a really finely crafted scene, which comes as no surprise from the guys at Bioware. I expected something similar in ME2, and got something much tamer, and yes, it was a bit of a let down. Not because I don't know how to work the internet and I'm just DYING to see some risky polygons. But because, in a game like this where character interaction and development is a major part of what makes the game, that scene is the culmination of an immense journey. You can cry "NERD" all you want, but Mass Effect has created a universe filled with characters that I genuinely like and have become invested in (in a very healthy way I promise. No Avatar.) and the scene was just a little less than I expected. After all, if you went into a battle and after firing a few shots the screen dimmed and cut away, and the game resumed at the next scene...wouldn't you feel a little cheated? I know, the analogy is extreme. But the relationships you build with other characters is one of the major factors that puts Mass Effect, and Bioware in general, at the top of the current gaming scene. You are Shepard, you shape him (or her), and experience this epic tale alongside your companions who you build a report with over the course of the game (or two games, depending). It's just strange to spend 47 hours right there with Shepard through every brutal decision, every scare, every battle, every humorous exhange, and then be pulled out of this particular "action" as if you were a 12 year old child seeing an R-rated movie with your parents.

But I digress. Though I have my opinion, it is in no way something that I feel the need to be SUPER DUPER angry about, or start some infantile boycott or anything. ME2 is one of the finest gaming experiences I have ever had, but it's inevitable that with a game of this magnitude you will come across some things you don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with the devs on. We all have our own little list of things we might have tweaked in Mass Effect one way or the other. This is one area where I just would have liked a little more. As it is, I'll live. It's still a fantastic game. And one which I apparently like to talk about way too much...

Totally Agree!

[LZIM]

BeLikeHan wrote...

 that scene is the culmination of an immense journey.

The rest is really good but I pick this part out because just like these scenes feel cut short, so too does the rest of the game.

It feels smaller than it should have been. Even at 2 disks, where the game could have shipped on bluray or in several DLC packs, it lacks for galaxy spanning scale. Even if you put 40 hours going back and forth there was no way the team could have put us back into a virgin mode and showed us their galaxy again as only they can.

but going out of their way to say community be damned with begging for just these scenes to be done fan service is still a slap in the face. With all the work that is left to be done (and not in this game) for the conclusion of the series.. fine, leave this game the way it is and we'll hope to see more in the sequel.

It's just with this game being on that smaller scale, though polished and gorgeous compared to the first.. what are with looking forward to? even more trimming down of mission to FFXIII shoe string linearity? since asking for sex/nudity is apparently too much asking for epic scale in the grand conclusion must also be too much.

We'll once more get what they give us and we will be happy with it, though replay value might suffer as the adventure hardly feels as epic and inspiring anymore and sex/nudity isn't going to change anything.

Where if you look at the length of time that Bioware are taking the time to tell their story.. other developers are making great technological strides with their visuals and game play. note the almost casual use of physics during combat in this trailer:

http://www.cinemable...2011-22902.html

I'm looking at the trailer and expecting it to be a PC game not possible on consoles. But it only reinforces how similar ME2 is to the first game, but just easier on the eyes, and unfortunately easier to play.

Modifié par LZIM, 17 février 2010 - 12:28 .

[Policyofnoreturn]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Name-calling also does not contribute positively to this discussion, Kalfear. You don't have to read all the rules of conduct that you agreed to abide by when you signed up to participate in our community, just one rule, but I suspect that's asking too much from a rulebreaker like you!

See how unproductive that is? Let's get back on-topic, please. And to some of the newbies to the discussion, please read through some of the actual arguments before coming in here with your "you want to see boobs in videogame? lamer n00b!" type comments. This discussion went beyond that point 20 pages ago, and I'm sure folks would prefer not having to spend half of each page reminding people that "I wanna see boobs in a videogame" isn't the argument here. Thank you.

Kudos for providing a level-headed thread perspective.

[EGGO39]

kab wrote...

Mmmm.... cheetos.

it aint easy being cheezy:O

[Lopake]

more sex less combat!

[LZIM]

Lopake wrote...

more sex less combat!

How would that work?

Decided to start watching Spartacus, where over the top violence and nudity seem to fit in context. Sex remains subporno and so also fits.

I watched it and wondered if the values of all the council races are such that as societies they just don't condone such behavior... and I still find it silly. Ancient Rome, and many other cultures, then as now, have no qualms about simple nudity.. few abide by sex in public.. but most don't need it in their public entertainment. For the sake of entertainment. Only the really decadent ones appreciate it.

--

I wonder about something...

Why can't you board a merc ship and capture them, then space them? It has to be better than ripping them to shreds with bullets biotics and explosives?

Where's the argument that the game isn't violent? or sadistic? have we finally moved past that argument? or is there room for Grunt to rip mercs to pieces? or dismember or decapitate them? Wouldn't you be more pressed to take them out if they were torturing captives?

Which is more repugnant? the lack of sex/nudity to the degree where the games can sell on the shelf at wall mart and pass federal censors... or that the game isn't actually that violent at all? and kinda uniformly pits you against human shaped aliens with human-like intelligence. Where are the aliens? the ones that make you need new pants? the ones that need to be taken out with extreme prejudice? (big aliens in Spore) the ones that aren't to scale, because they are much bigger than the player.

So besides the Rakni there aren't really any wild aliens (more than just varren) on those worlds you need to explore. Wouldn't it be more fun if there was a bit of a challenge in having to fight wild alien animal(s), of varying scale, and very low intelligence native cultures instead of husks and abominations (suicide bombers)? 

Part of the fun of Spore was being able to get down there and massacre them and take their planets over. Sell them as slaves or whatever. It all kinda makes no sex/nudity a lukewarm argument at best when there's potential in other areas of the game that need attention. 

Modifié par LZIM, 17 février 2010 - 05:19 .

[-Edgie_]

I think the "if you want sex go to google" statement is more redundant than the name calling.

The thing is, Miranda wears what seems to be a skintight white suit, and there's numerous camera angles where her ****** and arse are accentuated, and of course there's the back and forth sexual chemistry. And she's not the only character, Bioware really sexed up the game, god knows why, but when it comes to crunch time they failed to deliver. It's an uneven experience.

I really think if sex was implied, and the screen faded to black, without the PG "sex" scenes, they just walked into a room, or started kissing, it would have more integrity then the midday movie (actually no, I've seen more explicit midday movies) farce which they gave us. For this reason, the Tali scene is probably the best, when compared to the Miranda & Jack ones.

It' kinda like how Call of Duty: World at War turned the gore up to 11 then with Modern Warfare 2, it's back to about 3. Although they where different developers, so it's a good reason.

Modifié par -Edgie , 17 février 2010 - 03:46 .

[Lopake]

-Edgie wrote...

I think the "if you want sex go to google" statement is more redundant than the name calling.

The thing is, Miranda wears what seems to be a skintight white suit, and there's numerous camera angles where her ****** and arse are accentuated, and of course there's the back and forth sexual chemistry. And she's not the only character, Bioware really sexed up the game, god knows why, but when it comes to crunch time they failed to deliver. It's an uneven experience.

I really think if sex was implied, and the screen faded to black, without the PG "sex" scenes, they just walked into a room, or started kissing, it would have more integrity then the midday movie (actually no, I've seen more explicit midday movies) farce which they gave us. For this reason, the Tali scene is probably the best, when compared to the Miranda & Jack ones.

It' kinda like how Call of Duty: World at War turned the gore up to 11 then with Modern Warfare 2, it's back to about 3. Although they where different developers, so it's a good reason.

Less chemistry more nudity

[Marcin K]

Lopake wrote...


Less chemistry more nudity

don't you get the topic? it's about ruining romance climate in game not showing some porn....
but maybe i didn't get your point... 

[ForceXev]

I'd consider myself in the crowd that likes the grittier, more mature content of ME2. For example, I love that Jack uses the F word a lot. I think it's so effective for that character, and if she had to say "oh fudge" instead to avoid an M rating it would have totally gutted the character. So I would not mind a bit of nudity in the love scenes. Having said that, I don't think the nudity is necessary. I haven't seen all of the love scenes yet, but the point can be made just fine with a more subtle scene and then fade to black. We all know what happens next.



I think it's more of an issue in Afterlife than in the love scenes - the dancers in Afterlife should have been topless or nude IMO. I mean, this club is essentially being run by criminals in this dark and dirty space station. It would have been more realistic if the dancers there were less modest than the ones in Chora's Den on the prim and proper Citadel station.

[KAT4N4]

Bioware did a fantastic job mixing compelling character development, exciting action (I enjoyed every spray of blood from my sniper headshots) and complex moral issues (games never make me question or think about my moral decisions/beliefs or what is truly for the "Greater Good"). However, I think the lack of nudity is kind of unimmersive for an RPG (people rarely have sex with clothes on in intimate/private encounters).



I think Bioware didn't include the nudity because of backlash, not for artistic integrity. Its like a movie that goes for a PG-13 rating to get more viewers. While this is economically intelligent (and I won't argue against it), you don't strengthen your integrity by doing it. Jack would have no qualms about showing of her goods and Miranda wouldn't be wearing a bra under something that skin tight (hopefully the future simply has no need for bras).



Again, it takes away from the realism and immersion. Just like when I watch a movie and the girl in the sex scene has a blanket wrapped around her waist and a bra on or someone is shot in a PG/PG-13 movie and there is no blood, it reminds me that I am watching a movie.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Manny NL wrote...

 I find it unbelievable that there really is a discussion about sex and nudity in game, while we (or you) apear to find it  no problem that the game is filled with violence and killing!!!! Apparently it is ok to shoot and kill, but it is wrong to love and have a good f*** (especially after killing some aliens) !!


Sorry if i am wrong, but i bet it is mostly americans who complain about sex in (violent) games, since they are known for their hypocrism.

I'm American and I'm on your side so stuff it.

[Fumbleumble]

Stanley Woo wrote...
"I wanna see boobs in a videogame" isn't the argument here. Thank you.

No, the arguement here is that some so called mature adults seem to equate sex scenes in a video game, whether 'sensual' or full on hardcore as some kind of 'character development'.. and that's laughable.

The only thing being developed in those cases is either the wrist, or the optic muscle....

Since when did nudity of any type add anything worthwhile to anything? (and remember were talking fiction here).. all it is, is salacious pandering to a base mentality. Sex sells.. and not only is that the whole of the arguement, but even more horrifyingly, these immature, underdeveloped adults seem to be in the majority and are having a massive impact on developers with their constant pressure to fill their vicarious sex lifes.

I'd actually like to see some REAL character development.. you know, morality (and I would even accept some depravity under this heading), motivation, some subtlety... maybe even throw in some psychological bent for those of us who don't think with our genitalia 24/7.. which is exactly what is going on with the people screaming for more pr0n, regardless of how they try to justify their particular needs. Most people here seem to be trying to elevate their base wants to the level of some kind of high brow fight for their rights as adults and in the end they just end up like looking like children to those of us who see clear through advertising pressures and lowest common denominator society.

I've read all the pages in this thread, and there isn't ONE single excuse that has been made in favour of increased sexual (and you may call it sensual if you really wish to continue deluding yourselves) content that's worth a gnat's fart.. infact the constant stream of excuses just bolsters the point of view that all they want IS to see more boobies.

There is no excuse possible for a more graphic representation of sex.. and especially not in a video game. There are no gains to be made whatsoever over a simple inferrance that it happens. If it's made clear that sex is the ultimate outcome of a particular relationship there are no further revelations to be made by showing unadorned wireframes getting their end away.

Bioware.... if you REALLY want to deal with sex in a real and actual, mature manner... then write this scene..

"you know I've always wanted more between us"
"Oh.. (insert character name)" *kiss" (if you REALLY must.)

FADE OUT.

...then have your writers expand on how their newly evolved sexlife is going to change the nature of their relationship and it's consequences.

To those screaming for a more graphical representation... if you REALLY DO only wish fuller character development, then you can't argue with me... if you do continue to argue for MOAR BOOBIES then that all you want, stop deluding yourselves... and BTW your flimsy justifications just aren't cutting it.

[Stanley Woo]

Fumbleumble, I'm reasonably certain the "agree with me or you're wrong" stance also isn't productive.