954 réponses à ce sujet

[NoShtSherlock]

This is a game were talking about not a mild porn movie or a mills & boon novel

[Urazz]

I understand them trying to make the sex scenes less graphic but it is kind of stupid to do that when you have Jack running around basically topless.

I think they should've worked on Jack's costume first instead of worry about the sex scenes instead.

Modifié par Urazz, 18 février 2010 - 12:28 .

[NoShtSherlock]

Urazz, you have a point Jack's outfit or lack of top was a little ridiculous at the start of the game at least after her loyalty mission you could change to a tank top for her. But the lack of clothing on her upper body and the lack of armor was something I would have liked to see changed or least have more options.

[Urazz]

NoShtSherlock wrote...

Urazz, you have a point Jack's outfit or lack of top was a little ridiculous at the start of the game at least after her loyalty mission you could change to a tank top for her. But the lack of clothing on her upper body and the lack of armor was something I would have liked to see changed or least have more options.

Yeah, it's part of the little nitpicking flaws that lower Mass Effect 2's overall personal rating for me.  It's still an excellent game with alot of replayability but it's not a perfect 10 or anything (more like a 7/10 for me).

[durasteel]

Urazz wrote...

I understand them trying to make the sex scenes less graphic but it is kind of stupid to do that when you have Jack running around basically topless.

I think they should've worked on Jack's costume first instead of worry about the sex scenes instead.

I think you missed the point of Jack's costume.  Her loyalty mission uncovers her interior, her soul, and allows covering her exterior body thereafter.  Jack's character is all about the open/closed theme, about reversals and contrasts.  Her strength comes from her victimization, her fear of betrayal makes her untrustworthy, nakedness is armor of a sort, for her psyche.

I guess Jack's character was a little deep for your average gamer.

[NoShtSherlock]

durasteel wrote...

Urazz wrote...

I understand them trying to make the sex scenes less graphic but it is kind of stupid to do that when you have Jack running around basically topless.

I think they should've worked on Jack's costume first instead of worry about the sex scenes instead.

I think you missed the point of Jack's costume.  Her loyalty mission uncovers her interior, her soul, and allows covering her exterior body thereafter.  Jack's character is all about the open/closed theme, about reversals and contrasts.  Her strength comes from her victimization, her fear of betrayal makes her untrustworthy, nakedness is armor of a sort, for her psyche.

I guess Jack's character was a little deep for your average gamer.

Jack's character wasn't deep in my opinion she was a psychotic killer and liked it.  Everything else about her was for the shock value and nothing more.  None of ME 2 character's had particular deep or meaningful personalities or characteristics.  I found Jack boring and predictable in my opinion

[durasteel]

NoShtSherlock wrote...

This is a game were talking about not a mild porn movie or a mills & boon novel

Yeah, this is a game.  The Japanese have made porn games, but that's not what we're discussing in this thread.  Some people - you might be one of them - seem to be incapable of distinguishing between scenes of disrobed intimacy without any kind of graphic sex on the one hand, and porn on the other.  It makes this discussion difficult at best, and absurd all too often.

The Google machine tells me that Mills & Boon provide romance novels to the UK public.  I suppose that's a sort of emotional porn, based on what little I know about romance novels.  I don't see a lot of parallels to Mass Effect or its sequel, but maybe I'm missing something.

These games tell a story, in much the way that a movie (non-porn) or a novel (non-romance) might.  In both movies and novels, romantic encounters and love scenes are used both to portray feelings of one character for another and to engender emotional attachment to one or more characters on the part of the viewer or reader.  This game is no different.

In Mass Effect 2, the threat to the human race (and the galaxy at large) gives Shepard something worth dieing for - hence the "suicide mission" terminology.  The romance options are added to help provide Shepard something to live for.  It is a tried and true storyteller's technique, it is perfectly legitimate, and can create a very real connection between the character and the viewer, reader, or player.  It is honest and resonates with our experience - we see our young men and women in the armed forces willing to die for their country but hoping to live for their loved ones at home, and it moves us.

That connection cannot be made on a purely intellectual level - it is an emotional reaction.  A novel has the luxury of being able to devote a page of expository text to descriptions of intimacy, but a movie or a video game must rely in large part on other means.  Actors must convey emotion in their lines of dialog, and the visual component must also communicate with feeling.

This unequivocally worked in Mass Effect.  The love scene before the Mu Relay made the fight against Saren immediate and personal not just for Shepard, but more importantly for the player.  Maybe I'm just sentimental, but after that point I really, really gave a crap about what happened to them, especially on my first couple of plays.

Mass Effect 2 was an excellent game, and I did feel connected to the characters.  The lack of intimacy in some of the love scenes, however, made them less effective that the corresponding scenes in the first game.  I personally would like to see the next game done more like the original.  If you think that constitutes a petition for porn in Mass Effect 3, well... there isn't much point arguing with you any more.

[SkullandBonesmember]

I want a mini game in ME3 where Shepard can bust a load on Ashley's face.

[durasteel]

NoShtSherlock wrote...

Jack's character wasn't deep in my opinion she was a psychotic killer and liked it.  Everything else about her was for the shock value and nothing more.  None of ME 2 character's had particular deep or meaningful personalities or characteristics.  I found Jack boring and predictable in my opinion

That's a real shame.

[Lopake]

More sex less nudity

[DeadInHell]

Durasteel, I would like to shake your hand right now. Emphatically agreed on all points you've made on this page. It's a shame that someone will inevitably read what you've written and reply with the same ridiculous response that's been regurgitated for nearly 30 pages now.



Impresario as well. Good points. And I know, I should be quoting...but it's just such clutter.

[TheTrooper1138]

durasteel wrote...

Fumbleumble wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Fumbleumble, I'm reasonably certain the "agree with me or you're wrong" stance also isn't productive.

Then show me how I'm wrong... give me justification that there are gains to be made in terms of 'character development' when the only addition is naked wireframes.

The difficulty seems to be that you don't want to acknowledge the obvious, and others seem to have difficulty putting something completely obvious into concise statement.  I'll try, therefore, to give you what you ask for.

First, let's dispense with this "graphic sex" nonsense.  No one is asking for it.  No demand for Shepard porn, no cry for Liara smut, no drive for Ashley hardcore.  None.  There is almost universal acclaim for the scenes from the first Mass Effect game, which stops at butt shots and side-boob, as you are doubtless well aware.  This is not graphical sex.

What Mass Effect's scenes of intimacy do have, however, is soft-focus camera shots from careful angles (to avoid graphic naughtiness) that make it clear that the characters are naked together.  That's your justification, right there.  Humans have a visceral reaction to nakedness.  Nothing else can more effectively communicate the lowering of barriers and the vulnerability that is inherent in intimate encounters.  If two people cuddle with clothes on, it is sweet.  Absent clothing, it becomes much more.

This is something that BioWare is clearly aware of, because they used these principles effectively in their depiction of Jack.  She is essentially topless from the moment she's introduced, with her life story etched literally onto her skin.  On the one hand, she has no secrets and nothing to hide, while on the other hand she is inaccessible and withdrawn, hidden in a dark corner in the belly of the Normandy.  It is a great metaphor for her entire character.

This is not an issue of seeing Tali's boobies.  This is about seeing Shepard and Tali (or Shepard and Miranda, Shepard and Garrus, Shepard and... you get the picture) with their defenses down, sharing a moment of complete openness and trust.  That's the difference between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 in this regard: while you know, cognitively, that that moment of intimacy took place before the Omega Relay, you know it viscerally - you feel it - before Ilos.  You feel it because you saw it.  There was no graphic sex, but there was tenderness and passion, and we saw intimacy, trust, and mutual surrender in that moment communicated through the depiction of two people being naked together.

The single greatest thing that sets BioWare games apart from those of other developers is the emotional involvement in the characters and story.  I will remember, as long as I live, the way I felt the first time I saw the Revan reveal, or the first time Bastila said "nothing could make me feel safer than to be loved by you."  BioWare hires the best writers and voice actors to make sure that the emotional connection is made, and in Mass Effect they went even farther, showing intimacy, trust, and vulnerability in the most effective way possible.

Now, you might want to compare KotOR and ME2 and suggest that the former should set the standard for the latter, never mind ME1.  That's not appropriate.  In Knights of the Old Republic, no one actually had an intimate encounter.  In Mass Effect 2, however, booty is called.  The way it is handled in the game, however, is not as satisfying, and does not create the visceral, emotional response that Mass Effect offered.

 Many people assert that they liked the love scene in Mass Effect, and that they miss that in Mass Effect 2.  That's what this is about.  This isn't "give us porn."  This is "what you did there, I liked it.  Do it again."

Here's the "TL;DR" version of your justification: humans react emotionally to seeing two adults naked together, even if we don't see the naughty bits ourselves.  Emotional reactions are what BioWare games offer.  We want those moments, and miss them when we don't get them.

Best posting of the entire thread! Respect, couldn't have said that better (or even as well as you did ) myself!

[DarkwanderStorm]

durasteel be my buddy

[SerSpiffy]

I Want the Sex to be like:

BAM. BAM. BAM.

[Prophet of Rage]

Skimmed the thread. What is all this immediate crying about porn? Why are retards learning how to use the internet?

"Mass Effect can be customized to sodomize whatever, whomever, however, the game player wishes..with its ‘over the net’ capabilities virtual orgasmic rape is just the push of a button away." -Kevin McCullough

Plz. Republicans. Gtfo the internet. Plz. Just gtfo.

[DarkwanderStorm]

Prophet of rage be my buddy too and you too SerSpiffy

[SerSpiffy]

i want my virtual penis inside Tali goddamnit!!! D:<

[SerSpiffy]

durasteel wrote...

NoShtSherlock wrote...

Jack's character wasn't deep in my opinion she was a psychotic killer and liked it.  Everything else about her was for the shock value and nothing more.  None of ME 2 character's had particular deep or meaningful personalities or characteristics.  I found Jack boring and predictable in my opinion

That's a real shame.

lol when he finally decides to do her romance one of these days, he's gonna eat those words...  and poop out fire.
cause that was one of the most IRONIC statements i've ever. ever. seen on this board so far.

[Miraaj]

The only thing that bother me truly about the step back from Mass Effect 1, is that Mass Effect 2 became frighteningly straight. I mean, at least, with the Romance option of Liara, who could be considered hermaphroditic, you could pretend that Shepard was queer.



In Mass Effect 2, the only queer options for romance on the game don't fulfill the achievement!



Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, but c'mon! Can we at least pretend that humans evolved past homophobia to some degree in the future?



Oh, and another thing, whoever thought it was a cute idea not to show Tali's face during the "love" scene is a supreme acid douche of the highest degree.

[DarkwanderStorm]

hahah

[SerSpiffy]

Miraaj wrote...

The only thing that bother me truly about the step back from Mass Effect 1, is that Mass Effect 2 became frighteningly straight. I mean, at least, with the Romance option of Liara, who could be considered hermaphroditic, you could pretend that Shepard was queer.

In Mass Effect 2, the only queer options for romance on the game don't fulfill the achievement!

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, but c'mon! Can we at least pretend that humans evolved past homophobia to some degree in the future?

Oh, and another thing, whoever thought it was a cute idea not to show Tali's face during the "love" scene is a supreme acid douche of the highest degree.

YOU FAIL!

Modifié par SerSpiffy, 18 février 2010 - 05:45 .

[DarkwanderStorm]

lol if that actually happen i would probably laugh myself till my lungs bleed

[Karlojey]

Meh. I didn't go through the whole forum, but for me, I think BioWare made the love scenes "tasteful". They weren't trying to show us porn but rather they were trying to tell us that Shepard was very human, capable to love and care; not just some bloodthirsty warlord.



Even without the nudity, the story is still what matters IMO :-)

[OneBadAssMother]

Developers:



I think the fans who made this thread are mostly concerned about you folks, Bioware, pulling punches. I also have to agree that ME1's scene was very touching, romantic and tasteful compared to DA. ME2 does seem to be an improvement however.

[VampireCommando]

i think the scene is ME2 was just fine, wasnt quite as erm... 'touching' as the first game but the second one was just fine. I dont think Bioware are intreasted in making a 'graphic' scene though, as it would just ruin the game, and think about it, it is rather weird, asking for a graphic sex scene.