954 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptilian Rob]

Stanley Woo wrote...

It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called "mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I can't think of a time (it's been awhile) where I've seen a more blatently truthful statement.

Which cements my opinion that Bioware is indeed the greatest developer of all time.

[Manny NL]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Manny NL wrote...

 I find it unbelievable that there really is a discussion about sex and nudity in game, while we (or you) apear to find it  no problem that the game is filled with violence and killing!!!! Apparently it is ok to shoot and kill, but it is wrong to love and have a good f*** (especially after killing some aliens) !!


Sorry if i am wrong, but i bet it is mostly americans who complain about sex in (violent) games, since they are known for their hypocrism. 

It's also hypocrisy, if you're going to insult all Americans.....at least have the decency to spell right

I bet my english is 500 times better than your Dutch. So if you are going to insult my spelling, at least have the decency to admit that.....

[Marcin K]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called "mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.

Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I can't think of a time (it's been awhile) where I've seen a more blatently truthful statement.

Which cements my opinion that Bioware is indeed the greatest developer of all time.

yes but even so they might have done some dialogue scenes better [Liara for example...]
so i would hold with :
Reptilian Rob wrote...

Which cements my opinion that Bioware is indeed the greatest developer of all time. 

Modifié par Marcin R, 20 février 2010 - 01:20 .

[ian528]

Kalfear wrote...

Lopake wrote...

I didnt mean to say there is something wrong with watching a sex scene but I dont understand why people feel its necessary for a game.

If you not looking for immersion of understand what it is, you will never be disappointed.

Persoanlly, I love immersion, be it a greatly written book, a well directed love scene that captures your emotions, or yes, a well produced love scene in a video game!

Love scene just one of many immersive type situations but in effect its EMOTIONS. All people asking is that Bioware (or any developer) play on those emotions and magnify them. Be it the desire to seek revenge on someone thats wronged you, be it the desire to protect someone you feel a connection to (fictional sibling, child, parent, who ever), or be it YOUR CHARACTER involved in a romantic love scene!

Tell me, would you say its ok if Bioware in ME1 had you chase Saren all over the universe, watched him commit genocide, destory innocent people, attack the citidel and when after 45 hours of playing the game with the ONE GOAL IN MIND OF CATCHING AND PUNISHING SAREN

you finally meet him face to face
he draws his weapon
you draw your weapon
the music hits a climax

*fade to black*

next scene is you standing on the destroyed citidel picking the new human advisor 

For may people, the love scene is the emotional pay for a game long romance as the final conflict with your sworn enemy is for a shooter fan.

Would you really be ok if they cut to black, not allowing you to see your final conflict take place?
Or
Woukd you really be ok if giant granny panties chat boxes appeared covering every weapon hit with POW, BAMM, BANG, POOF (eliminating all violence and blood from the final combat scene).

Role players simply want a logical and tasteful completion to their romances like any other player gets in the action side of game. 

Very succinctly put and absolutely agree with this.

[ian528]

Stanley Woo wrote...



It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People
who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game
seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of
self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called
"mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.



Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are
also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what
you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it.
We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we
have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I disagree most strenuously. The whole thread here is devoted to saying that the love scene choices made by Bioware for ME2 are poor.  We would enjoy the mature adult love scene that took place at the end of ME1.  I do not want a dating sim but I do want a mature scene that handles the relationship well.

Also for being a mature developer, the maturity level in ME2 compared to ME1 fell like a stone.  There is way more titillation of the player and an amping up of the sexual content.  It in fact was a little uncomfortable in thebar on Illium.  Fleet and Flotilla porn?  Please feel free to also take out the juvenile references to sex if you want to make a stand saying that you are a mature well thought out developer who can leave out the nudity.  I do not want American Pie in my Mass Effect.

That being said it seems that Fox News and Bunky the Wonder Clown did have an effect.  Bioware did not engage in the same development but played to titillate more while showing less.  Really adult there.  Take away the source of controversy in the first game and put in more graphic content that does not push the exact button that garnered a negative response in the first game.  Bioware is not the first place to do this and the story of Team America: World Police is where I expect to find shenanigans like this and not a well made RPG.  I love ME2 it is a much darker story and the character development is phenomenal.  But be an adult developer in ME3, don’t shy away from controversy just because you were burned once.  I don’t want to be the one with the finger stuck in my eye because of critics that did not even play the game.

Modifié par ian528, 20 février 2010 - 03:55 .

[Marcin K]

ian528 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...



It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People
who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game
seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of
self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called
"mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.



Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are
also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what
you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it.
We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we
have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I disagree most strenuously. The whole thread here is devoted to saying that the love scene choices made by Bioware for ME2 are poor.  We would enjoy the mature adult love scene that took place at the end of ME1.  I do not want a dating sim but I do want a mature scene that handles the relationship well.

Also for being a mature developer, the maturity level in ME2 compared to ME1 fell like a stone.  There is way more titillation of the player and an amping up of the sexual content.  It in fact was a little uncomfortable in thebar on Illium.  Fleet and Flotilla porn?  Please feel free to also take out the juvenile references to sex if you want to make a stand saying that you are a mature well thought out developer who can leave out the nudity.  I do not want American Pie in my Mass Effect.

That being said it seems that Fox News and Bunky the Wonder Clown did have an effect.  Bioware did not engage in the same development but played to titillate more while showing less.  Really adult there.  Take away the source of controversy in the first game and put in more graphic content that does not push the exact button that garnered a negative response in the first game.  Bioware is not the first place to do this and the story of Team America: World Police is where I expect to find shenanigans like this and not a well made RPG.  I love ME2 it is a much darker story and the character development is phenomenal.  But be an adult developer in ME3, don’t shy away from controversy just because you were burned once.  I don’t want to be the one with the finger stuck in my eye because of critics that did not even play the game.

ian528 wrote...

Lopake wrote:
Role players simply want a logical and tasteful completion to their romances like any other player gets in the action side of game. 

Very succinctly put and absolutely agree with this.

i personally agree with your both statements Ian528, also with Lopake part, as they reflect what i think: Bioware got shy of FOX and cut some good things form ME1 and put "censored" versions of those in ME2 so just 1 critic could say "yea! it's MY point of view that forced Bioware to make game as i like it", and keep quiet
it's not that i attack or accuse Bioware in any way, i just think they may've done romance/sex plot as in ME1 and not get beaten this time or if they did they should say: its our game and we are not scared of one critic or FOX

Modifié par Marcin R, 20 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[kkleven]

We don't need sex and nudity in games, that's correct. *But* there are plots and quests ingame (ME-2 and other Bioware games) that youre suppose to make love with a NPC char. You raise standing and by making friends, you get bonuses. We could at least see cutscenes where you and a npc is sleeping in a bed or kiss eachother. If developers take out everything that prove love between main char and a npc, these love theme in plots and quests should be left out. It has something with chars developement - relationship between eachother and able to get bonuses to weapons and skills.

If Bioware devs do not want to have even kisses in game, please leave out the love relationships, plots and quests in the games. Devs for other games who do not want to have even kisses in games (seen in cutscenes), they do not add love in the game either. Making friends, enemies and love between each chars in games has something to do with roleplaying and me thinks that posters in this thread who miss the "love" got a legal point.  

Cheers,
KK

Modifié par kkleven, 20 février 2010 - 05:03 .

[Monstruo696]

Kalfear wrote...

Lopake wrote...

I didnt mean to say there is something wrong with watching a sex scene but I dont understand why people feel its necessary for a game.

If you not looking for immersion of understand what it is, you will never be disappointed.

Persoanlly, I love immersion, be it a greatly written book, a well directed love scene that captures your emotions, or yes, a well produced love scene in a video game!

Love scene just one of many immersive type situations but in effect its EMOTIONS. All people asking is that Bioware (or any developer) play on those emotions and magnify them. Be it the desire to seek revenge on someone thats wronged you, be it the desire to protect someone you feel a connection to (fictional sibling, child, parent, who ever), or be it YOUR CHARACTER involved in a romantic love scene!

Tell me, would you say its ok if Bioware in ME1 had you chase Saren all over the universe, watched him commit genocide, destory innocent people, attack the citidel and when after 45 hours of playing the game with the ONE GOAL IN MIND OF CATCHING AND PUNISHING SAREN

you finally meet him face to face
he draws his weapon
you draw your weapon
the music hits a climax

*fade to black*

next scene is you standing on the destroyed citidel picking the new human advisor 

For may people, the love scene is the emotional pay for a game long romance as the final conflict with your sworn enemy is for a shooter fan.

Would you really be ok if they cut to black, not allowing you to see your final conflict take place?
Or
Woukd you really be ok if giant granny panties chat boxes appeared covering every weapon hit with POW, BAMM, BANG, POOF (eliminating all violence and blood from the final combat scene).

Role players simply want a logical and tasteful completion to their romances like any other player gets in the action side of game. 

Except that you just cut out 25 minutes of gameplay instead of a 15 second sex scene.

Your argument is invalid.

EDIT:  I think Bioware will keep this level of romance, perhaps emphasizing on the emotional side more than the sensual side.  If you're going to complain or boycott a game because of this, I suggest you take a look at your life and get your priorities straightened out.

I'm sure if you guys search the net long enough, you will find some Mass Effect sexy-time pictures around.

Also, there's nothing you can do about it, live with it.

Modifié par Monstruo696, 20 février 2010 - 05:54 .

[Grizzly46]

kkleven wrote...

We don't need sex and nudity in games, that's correct. *But* there are plots and quests ingame (ME-2 and other Bioware games) that youre suppose to make love with a NPC char. You raise standing and by making friends, you get bonuses. We could at least see cutscenes where you and a npc is sleeping in a bed or kiss eachother. If developers take out everything that prove love between main char and a npc, these love theme in plots and quests should be left out. It has something with chars developement - relationship between eachother and able to get bonuses to weapons and skills.

If Bioware devs do not want to have even kisses in game, please leave out the love relationships, plots and quests in the games. Devs for other games who do not want to have even kisses in games (seen in cutscenes), they do not add love in the game either. Making friends, enemies and love between each chars in games has something to do with roleplaying and me thinks that posters in this thread who miss the "love" got a legal point.  

Cheers,
KK

I fully agree, and I have said this earlier - any element in a game, be it romance or mini-games to beat locks or so must be done varied and well in order to add to the value. If a certain topic or game element is left out altogether, then it wouldn't add to the game. If a topic or game element is added, in order for it to increase the game value it must be done well, or it will actually decrease the game value.

Let's take an example: one thing that was left out was drug or steroid use for the protagonist (one for killing, one for fun so to speak), so that element did not alter the total of Mass Effect's game value. Had drugs been included and there had been only say heroine and amfetamine to choose from and there would be no ill effects from using these drugs, then it would most likely had caused an uproar from people asking "where's the weed?" and from others bashing the developers for the lack of realism considering drug use.

Now turn my example around. The player gets a full range of drugs to use from - weed, crack, LSD and all those exciting things invented in the future, along with some nifty screen effects from using the drug of his choice, an adddicto-meter measuring how long time it was since he took his last dose, how much he will need to stay focused, damage to his overall health etc - all this along with the obvious choice of staying clear of narcotics . in short, a well-worked out system for drug use and abuse. This would be a factor adding to the game value (now, I'm not suggesting adding drugs to ME3 - this is only an example m'kay?).

This is what we experience right now, comparing the love plots and intimate scenes from ME1 with ME2.

[Marcin K]

Grizzly46 wrote...


This is what we experience right now, comparing the love plots and intimate scenes from ME1 with ME2.

so that leaves Bioware witch just 1 option for DLC and/or ME3 make romances BOT LESS THAN EQUAL TO ME1 or even BETTER not  the other way around...

Modifié par Marcin R, 20 février 2010 - 06:42 .

[FrancisKitt]

Eh, it didn't bother me or any of my friends when we played. And were all hormonal teenagers, oif we wanted boobies we could easily get them on the internet.

[Marcin K]

FrancisKitt wrote...

Eh, it didn't bother me or any of my friends when we played. And were all hormonal teenagers, oif we wanted boobies we could easily get them on the internet.

if it din't bothered you, then ... why do you post here?

[Kalfear]

Monstruo696 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Lopake wrote...

I didnt mean to say there is something wrong with watching a sex scene but I dont understand why people feel its necessary for a game.

If you not looking for immersion of understand what it is, you will never be disappointed.

Persoanlly, I love immersion, be it a greatly written book, a well directed love scene that captures your emotions, or yes, a well produced love scene in a video game!

Love scene just one of many immersive type situations but in effect its EMOTIONS. All people asking is that Bioware (or any developer) play on those emotions and magnify them. Be it the desire to seek revenge on someone thats wronged you, be it the desire to protect someone you feel a connection to (fictional sibling, child, parent, who ever), or be it YOUR CHARACTER involved in a romantic love scene!

Tell me, would you say its ok if Bioware in ME1 had you chase Saren all over the universe, watched him commit genocide, destory innocent people, attack the citidel and when after 45 hours of playing the game with the ONE GOAL IN MIND OF CATCHING AND PUNISHING SAREN

you finally meet him face to face
he draws his weapon
you draw your weapon
the music hits a climax

*fade to black*

next scene is you standing on the destroyed citidel picking the new human advisor 

For may people, the love scene is the emotional pay for a game long romance as the final conflict with your sworn enemy is for a shooter fan.

Would you really be ok if they cut to black, not allowing you to see your final conflict take place?
Or
Woukd you really be ok if giant granny panties chat boxes appeared covering every weapon hit with POW, BAMM, BANG, POOF (eliminating all violence and blood from the final combat scene).

Role players simply want a logical and tasteful completion to their romances like any other player gets in the action side of game. 

Except that you just cut out 25 minutes of gameplay instead of a 15 second sex scene.

Your argument is invalid.

EDIT:  I think Bioware will keep this level of romance, perhaps emphasizing on the emotional side more than the sensual side.  If you're going to complain or boycott a game because of this, I suggest you take a look at your life and get your priorities straightened out.

I'm sure if you guys search the net long enough, you will find some Mass Effect sexy-time pictures around.

Also, there's nothing you can do about it, live with it.

amazes me how some kiddish trolls can continue to completely miss the issue at hand with their childish comments that think are smart and intellegent!

Seriously? sexy time? Why do you just scream "IM 13 and never been with a female".

So sick of trolls and kids on these forums

[Sique Foque]

ian528 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...



It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again. People
who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game
seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of
self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called
"mature" without explicit sex and/or nudity.



Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are
also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what
you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it.
We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we
have made and we have every right to make that choice.

I disagree most strenuously. The whole thread here is devoted to saying that the love scene choices made by Bioware for ME2 are poor.  We would enjoy the mature adult love scene that took place at the end of ME1.  I do not want a dating sim but I do want a mature scene that handles the relationship well.

Also for being a mature developer, the maturity level in ME2 compared to ME1 fell like a stone.  There is way more titillation of the player and an amping up of the sexual content.  It in fact was a little uncomfortable in thebar on Illium.  Fleet and Flotilla porn?  Please feel free to also take out the juvenile references to sex if you want to make a stand saying that you are a mature well thought out developer who can leave out the nudity.  I do not want American Pie in my Mass Effect.

That being said it seems that Fox News and Bunky the Wonder Clown did have an effect.  Bioware did not engage in the same development but played to titillate more while showing less.  Really adult there.  Take away the source of controversy in the first game and put in more graphic content that does not push the exact button that garnered a negative response in the first game.  Bioware is not the first place to do this and the story of Team America: World Police is where I expect to find shenanigans like this and not a well made RPG.  I love ME2 it is a much darker story and the character development is phenomenal.  But be an adult developer in ME3, don’t shy away from controversy just because you were burned once.  I don’t want to be the one with the finger stuck in my eye because of critics that did not even play the game.

Good post.

Modifié par Sique Foque, 20 février 2010 - 07:16 .

[Monstruo696]

Kalfear wrote...


amazes me how some kiddish trolls can continue to completely miss the issue at hand with their childish comments that think are smart and intellegent!

Seriously? sexy time? Why do you just scream "IM 13 and never been with a female".

So sick of trolls and kids on these forums

What, exactly, is the issue at hand here?  Not enough ass in the cut-scenes?  Not enough touchy-feely?

Also, I used sexy-time as a derogative to make fun of people like you, and it did its job perfectly.

EDIT:  ME1 was the only Bioware game I've played that had any sort of nudity in their romance/love interests, so why is everyone treating this as if Bioware has been doing this since the beginning and now they're evil and conformist for taking it away?

Modifié par Monstruo696, 20 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[ian528]

Monstruo696 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...


amazes me how some kiddish trolls can continue to completely miss the issue at hand with their childish comments that think are smart and intellegent!

Seriously? sexy time? Why do you just scream "IM 13 and never been with a female".

So sick of trolls and kids on these forums

What, exactly, is the issue at hand here?  Not enough ass in the cut-scenes?  Not enough touchy-feely?

Also, I used sexy-time as a derogative to make fun of people like you, and it did its job perfectly.

Read the posts and you will see the issue being brought up.  If you just want to insult, then please go elsewhere.  If you have an opinion, then pleas express it.  And your insult did do its job perfectly it showed you to be an ass.

[Monstruo696]

ian528 wrote...


Read the posts and you will see the issue being brought up.  If you just want to insult, then please go elsewhere.  If you have an opinion, then pleas express it.  And your insult did do its job perfectly it showed you to be an ass.

I did read the posts, and all I see is a handful of beatnicks calling Bioware conformists.

Get over yourselves, seriously.

[ian528]

Monstruo696 wrote...

EDIT:  ME1 was the only Bioware game I've played that had any sort of nudity in their romance/love interests, so why is everyone treating this as if Bioware has been doing this since the beginning and now they're evil and conformist for taking it away?

The romance options have been around since BG2 I believe and it has helped to create a fuller sense of role-playing for those of us who like it.  They have continually move to push the boundaries of what was done with the romance option.  The reason for this thread is that many people find ME2 to be retreating from those boundaries.  I like Bioware story telling and I want them to continue to push those boundaries. 

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

I wasn't around at the time, but i'm guessing the first movies to show a woman's ankle were in a similar point to how we are now.



And lets look at movies now, nobody even blinks an eye at a couple in bed.



To me this all goes back to the 'Games are for kids' aspect, even though some games deal with wars, death, nukes, dismemberment etc and so on. The media still thinks its little johnny playing games in his bedroom, and they can't seem to change the stereotype unfortunately.

[King Of Assassins]

come on guys ...This is stupid....Nudity g sex in a game.....Then better just go to a pornsite

[Stanley Woo]

Let's take the name-calling and insults out of the discussion, please. Since my original comments are coming around again (even after I explained and clarified my meaning in a separate thread a couple weeks ago), methinks people are just arguing in circles and it may soon be time to reboot the discussion. We'll see...

[aries1001]

As I've said before, the love scenes for ME2 are fine, at least to me. They leave something to the imagination, which is a great way to go as our minds generally fill in the blanks. And what our minds can imagine are far better than anything else, I find.

If you haven't played the game, you can check them out at place that's just turned 5 (five). Yes, there are no nudity, except maybe for a little partial nuidity. On the other hand, the lead-up to the romances are now way better than in ME1, each NPC (that can be romanced) now has an individual scene, based on the relations-ship between the NPC and Shepard. The Tali romance scene, I find especially moving. And I do not care, if I don't see Tali's face. Shepard sees it - and this really do add to the mystery of Tali, I find.

Edit:

As I've said in one of my posts in this thread, I do think that the romance scenes in ME2 works well within the game, as it focuses more on the emotional relations-hip with the NPC (that can be romanced) rather than just focus on getting to the sex part (which is how ME1's romances could be seen). 

I just hope there is way to get rid of the horrible music - other than turning down the volume..

Modifié par aries1001, 20 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[addiction21]

I think some need to be refreshed on what actually happened with the whole fox news interview thing.



Notice how quickly they cut away from the interview when it is not going the way they wanted and instead finish it up with their panel of yes men/women.

Oh and here is the author they broght on apologizing for being a fool http://www.1up.com/d...ory?cId=3165633

And did anything change or happen because of this? Clearly not I could point to a couple very recent video game releases from EA and BW that have nudity and sex in there. Anyone remember the outcry of the sex and violence in GTA3? Which did nothing but pump the games sales up during that controversy.

It is rather clear that EA (I keep bringing EA up because like it or not they are a very real part of what BW is doing now a days) and BioWare have no problem including sex and nudity in their games.

I cannot make anyone accept BioWares statement that they decided to go a different route with ME2's romances but I can show you the proof that they still have no problem having bumping and grinding in their games.



The whole "what if they cut out the Saren boss fight and ending in ME" analogy is a joke in my opinion. That was the purpose of the entire game. To track him down, confront him, and stop him. Not to see some flesh.



I would also ask some to elaborate on why the ME1's recycled love making scenes with some nudity in there is better then the unique tailored made scenes of ME2's that lack nudity.

Do not bring up the plot or progression of the romances because they are the same in each game. Go talk to your LI after a mission or two, pick the flirty opption, rinse repeat, if you have happened to be flirting with someone else you now need to tell one to buzz off, go on the final mission and you get the "Love scene"



Just my two cents. I think its nap time anyway

[Bron Avery]

I have no problems either way. I like sex, but I care more about the romance plot when it comes to games.