954 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

EvilChani wrote...

crackseed wrote...

I actually prefer ME2's romances. I mean yeah the ME1 was very tasteful, but it's not required to enjoy the romantic interactions with your LI of choice. ME2 built it up better as you spend more time talking to them and the climax ties in to how the character is. No issues with Bioware's choice.

I agree. The sweet handholding with a particular character (anyone who did this one knows who I mean!) while your fem Shep and he discuss a long vacation once the mission is done was far more romantic than the wishy washy flirting with Kaidan pulled in ME1. That goes double for the emotionally charged night with above referenced character versus the passionate love scene with Kaidan the night before all hell broke loose. Kaidan is on my sh-- list, by the way...bastard prefers my Shep dead to working with Cerberus, huh? Well, screw him!

I honestly think the best done romances were in Dragon Age. Even without the nice little love scenes with your characters in varying positions, it felt more...realistic. Alistair and his rose...Zevran and his earring...the smooching in front of people just for the hell of it...and the comments from the peanut gallery of companions about how the loud noises from your tent fill the air at night were both endearing and hilarious (really, an earring from a hit? that's too cute and kinda disturbing at the same time!).

I really wish Bioware had put as much into the relationships in ME2 as they did in DA, but I think there may be a payoff in ME3. I just hope there is a cure for Thane (preferably one that requires Shep to do something totally unethical, so it's not an "easy" choice) and that there is a dialogue option for me to tell Kaidan to get stuffed when he whines about me "cheating" on him. If not, I suppose there is always fanfiction...  *starts writing*

Agreed - for Thane my Paragon FemShep is willing to do something unethical...but then it's back to the light side (uh, mostly). :innocent:

[Ibby1kanobi]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

Served!

About time Devs start telling people this, it needs to be resaid in many other threads. This needs to be said in the Gay Shepard threads so they can quiet down in there too...

[CRISIS1717]

Recently when I was playing ME2, Kelly was giving my Shep a show. Is this what Stan meant by mature?

Lets face it, the tasteful scenes in ME1 are more mature.

Modifié par CRISIS1717, 05 février 2010 - 08:37 .

[rehlstadt]

I think we all are looking for different levels of detail, some are seeking complete omission of certain experiences. Whether it's nudity, violence, language, or content my suggestion is to consider these things as menu options (if installed in the game) or as DLC (created by Bioware or made by another source). I agree that in the process of making ME1 and then continuing onto ME2 that it was a "dictatorship" as Stanley Woo has said, but also if ME1 had tanked like the movie Waterworld there would be no ME2. The dollar (euro, peso, etc.) is power.

I am not asking them to force anyone to have content in their game they do not wish to experience, I am merely offering that the option(s) be put in place for it to be there is some of the consumers so wishes to have it.

Modifié par rehlstadt, 05 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[EvilChani]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

crackseed wrote...

I actually prefer ME2's romances. I mean yeah the ME1 was very tasteful, but it's not required to enjoy the romantic interactions with your LI of choice. ME2 built it up better as you spend more time talking to them and the climax ties in to how the character is. No issues with Bioware's choice.

I really wish Bioware had put as much into the relationships in ME2 as they did in DA, but I think there may be a payoff in ME3. I just hope there is a cure for Thane (preferably one that requires Shep to do something totally unethical, so it's not an "easy" choice) and that there is a dialogue option for me to tell Kaidan to get stuffed when he whines about me "cheating" on him. If not, I suppose there is always fanfiction...  *starts writing*

Agreed - for Thane my Paragon FemShep is willing to do something unethical...but then it's back to the light side (uh, mostly). :innocent:

LOL! My paragon FemShep is right there, too (though she already has her, uhh, darker moments...like when interrogating that punk to find out about Thane's son). I think she'd sell the rest of her fighting years to the Illusive Man to save Thane's life (or destroy a planet or two, if it came down to it) and she bloody well hates TIM. I would love to see a choice like that in ME3. Besides, if all else fails, she kept a copy of that incriminating evidence on Cerberus...why not use it to blackmail TIM into using every resource he has to cure Thane's disease? 

[CRISIS1717]

Wishful thinking. Thane is a goner.

[SethSteiner]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Recently when I was playing ME2, Kelly was giving my Shep a show. Is this what Stan meant by mature?
Lets face it, the tasteful scenes in ME1 are more mature.

No, Kellys show isn`t mature but not because of the show itself but due the lack of anything else. My FemShep had her on her lap, they lied in the bad together and she danced but there was nothing else, no dialouge before or afterwards and absolutly nothing between. The whole scenario would be mature if Shep would sit somewhere, Kelly comes in (in another outfit than the same from all the other dancers), than a little talk, touches, an professional camera ect. like with the other LIs. But how it is, it is nothing but boring nonsense.

[CRISIS1717]

SethSteiner wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Recently when I was playing ME2, Kelly was giving my Shep a show. Is this what Stan meant by mature?
Lets face it, the tasteful scenes in ME1 are more mature.

No, Kellys show isn`t mature but not because of the show itself but due the lack of anything else. My FemShep had her on her lap, they lied in the bad together and she danced but there was nothing else, no dialouge before or afterwards and absolutly nothing between. The whole scenario would be mature if Shep would sit somewhere, Kelly comes in (in another outfit than the same from all the other dancers), than a little talk, touches, an professional camera ect. like with the other LIs. But how it is, it is nothing but boring nonsense.

Whether its boring is up to each persons personal taste but the purpose of the moment is eyecandy and hardly the mature romantic theme Stan described. Like I said its not about maturity, its about entertainment.

[Blindside002]

Stanley Woo wrote...

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

I don't think we need nudity in movies either, oh lets remove violence in games and movies too. Lets next censor news media so that they can no longer show war footage on broadcast T.V.

To the original point of this post, I find it sad that in the "land of the free" that we allow such a twisted set of views. We americans have no problem allowing our 13 year old son to play GTA with the cop shooting, prostitute beating, robbing houses and car jacking. But put in a TASTEFUL plot device such as the wonderful gift of love making(MASS EFFECT 1) between two characters who have developed a relationship with each other and parents flip and the media wants to burn the producers alive.

Let's keep the politics out of the discussion, please. Eavh region will have its own laws, cultural bias, and tolerances, and this discussion tends to put people on the defensive. This leads to arguments that we'd rather not have on our forums.

Seriously game Devs need to grow some nads, it the game is rated M then let the rating speak for itself, it is NOT your job to parent the child. If the actual parents lack that ability and decide to use media to parent the child then perhaps they should invest in any number of parents for dummies books out there that might help them!!!

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I would like to shake your hand sir. While I may want something in a game, the best I know I can do is show my support for it and hope the Devs take notice (not that I'm supporting this thread, just meant in general). I play your games because I enjoy what you guys do with your creativity, and you guys decide how and what you put into your games. Please continue to do what you guys think is right without taking s**t from critics or others.

[neubourn]

I dont think the problem is "ZOMG WE NEED BEWBS AND NUDITY!!" No, the problem is that BioWare themselves created their own standard with ME1 that showed passionate love scenes with SOME nudity, but all were tastefully done and made the impact that was intended...a passionate love scene before a tough mission.



But now with ME2...they actually scaled it back, which leaves the question "why?" Instead of partial nudity, just about all of the love scenes remained fully clothed, and amounts to nothing more but implied sex due to remarks made after the fade to black. I think this is what is frustrating fans, that the standard was set in ME1, but then completely scaled back in ME2. BioWare can try and defend it however they want, but it still doesnt change the fact that it is a step back from the standard that they themselves set in ME1.

[Detsu]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

Initial reaction: Baaawww, they're criticizing our development choices!

Secondary reaction: Damn, they must be sick of reading the continuous torrent of idiocy their fanbase generates. One of the downsides of having a fanbase and giving them a place to express themselves.

Tertiary reaction: Wait, this a direct denial of the fact that developers are influenced by their fans in game design, isn't it? After all, while Bioware can choose what it puts into its game, the gamers can limit those choices by only buying the games that have what they want in them. And since Bioware is now under EA's loving care, we can expect this "appeal to the gamers" view to become even MORE prominent.

[orbit991]

I much prefer a realistic depiction then something watered down so 13 year old johnny wont get disturbed by an unexpected excitement in he's "special place". You don't actually have to show a nipple(God forbid!), but you can show the naked back, much like in ME1. Also agree with one of the posters regarding sleazy places like Omega looking like a PG Vegas, it blows the immersion and makes you feel like Disney bought out the place.



Sure the devs can do what they want, but they don't always get it right and watering content down to the lowest denominator is always mediocrity.

[SethSteiner]

Darht Jayder wrote...

I think it is quite immature to
whine about the lack of nudity in a game like this. The point of the
romance is not to see some CG sex scene . It is to more fully immerse
yourself in the world and the story. I see nothing really gained or
necessary to including graphic sex or nudity.

Why not? Variety is a beatiful thing. Sure you don`t need to show nudity everywhere and everytime but no nudity at all? That is immature, because you would ignore a part of romance. I like how it was handled with Miranda and Tali. Miranda showed skin and why not? The same seen reversed with Miranda instead of Tali on the other hand would look bad, sorry but to say you can`t see anything gained by including it, you must be blind and/or ignorant.

Modifié par SethSteiner, 05 février 2010 - 09:00 .

[Sidney]

Darht Jayder wrote...

I think it is quite immature to whine about the lack of nudity in a game like this. The point of the romance is not to see some CG sex scene . It is to more fully immerse yourself in the world and the story. I see nothing really gained or necessary to including graphic sex or nudity.

I think in terms of immersion something like ME1's scenes are a lot more immersive than ME2 or DAO's still partially clothed scenes. The ME scenes have a cinematic quality but can't really be called graphic and barely rate as "nude". Those scenes made the romances seem a lot more real that the underpants on approach of DAO or the we don't even take our clothes off in ME2. I don't want porn but in an M game I want to see scenes that deal with sex presented in away that doesn't make my late 30's self roll my eyes and grimace..

.

[The Demonologist]

I care abot romances, sure. They're a nice addition.

In all honesty though, why does it matter whether Sheppard and friend gets naked or not? It'd be a tad different if the scenes were styled as they were in DA:O, but I do believe what we see in this game implies that you further undress after the fade to black. Use your imagination folks, that, or fanfic.

If it were comical like in DA:O I suppose I'd object, but objecting about how it was handled this time around seems to come from... well, a different place.

Modifié par The Demonologist, 05 février 2010 - 09:00 .

[Orogenic]

This is funny but a bit off-topic....



I bet this thread will remain on page 1 for a month just because of the title lol.

[Orogenic]

Darht Jayder wrote...


I don't see how immersion is lost or even really affected one way or the other.  DA:O's scenes....laughable but didn't break immersion.  As to whether the scenes were more artistically directed in ME1 than ME2.....maybe but so what?  Other than it simply being a quality thing, nudity is unnecessary to convey a sense of romanticism.

Well for one thing, the scenes "cuddling" on the bed fully clothed look just plain silly.  Hell, why not have them cuddling in full body armor while you're at it?

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

While development in the game isn't collaborative between developers and gamers in a strict sense (the developers are free to develop whatever they want), the idea that an intelligent developer should ignore what it's customers want (and I don't think Mr. Woo was advocating this position) is rather silly.



After all, gamers are free to not buy things that don't appeal to them. And the invisible hand will ensure that developers who ignore their customers will cease to be developers soon enough. Of course, that doesn't mean that ignoring the idiosyncrasies of people in this forum will necessarily result in a bad outcome -- I bet most of the profit Bioware reaps come from people who aren't forumites.

[orbit991]

Orogenic wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...


I don't see how immersion is lost or even really affected one way or the other.  DA:O's scenes....laughable but didn't break immersion.  As to whether the scenes were more artistically directed in ME1 than ME2.....maybe but so what?  Other than it simply being a quality thing, nudity is unnecessary to convey a sense of romanticism.

Well for one thing, the scenes "cuddling" on the bed fully clothed look just plain silly.  Hell, why not have them cuddling in full body armor while you're at it?

Thats comming in ME3.

[XMasterchefX]

why u want nudity lol, if u want sex vids just google xD the internet is a massive storage of por, i bught mass effect 2 because its fun game with awesome story not because i wanted to see nudity 

Modifié par XMasterchefX, 05 février 2010 - 09:18 .

[Menalaos1971]

Well I'm glad the conversation turned serious. I stopped trying to talk about this after the first few childish comments.