954 réponses à ce sujet

[Impresario]

As we keep pointing out ad nauseam it's not about nudity per se but using all the available tools to create a mature emotional resonance between the player controlled protagonist and the object of its interest. This is done in film and literature and we're saying it's about time they start doing it well in games (such as this) too..

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

Menalaos1971 wrote...

tryceo wrote...

Yep.. it seems parents are more worried about boobs than alcohol, drugs, profanity, guns, blood, vilence, and Osama bin Laden. Well at least our kids won't have sex.

What do parents have to do with this?  This is a Rated M game.  If you're old enough to play it you don't need anyone's permission.

But that's the real point isn't it?  Its not that Bioware doesn't want to present these relationships realistically.  Its that they don't want to hurt the sales of their Rated M game to children not old enough to play it.  If the only questionable material is shooting space robots then most parents won't care if little Billy plays, but put in adult sexual relationships and then mommy might think twice.

thats part of the hypocracy-

but mommy is ok with little billy watching blood and gore but the moment anyone sees a sideboob or naked body (me1s scene wasn't nudity- it was tastefully done- art) then its time for a lyinching.

- i'm damn sure i would rather have my kids exposd to something they will partake in in real life at some point and is normal and natural as opposed to beheading someone.

granted- bioware might be cow towing for the purposes of sales but i don't buy that it will have the effect some people claim it will-

the M rating- will have some effect more than  the nudity? any parent who actualy cares is probably not going to allow an m rated game regardless- so they already have the m rating- i could totally see if it was the "g rated" love scene from me1 that turned the game from teen to M, but thats not what happened.


EDIT:

the truth of the matter is that i wouldn't even care if they didn't put it in me1- that makes this game a definite downgrade in that respect.

people can argue left and right whether or not the mako or the scanning is better- and thats a matter of opinion, but i don't think anyone will argue that the scenes from me2 are inferior in quality to the way they did it in me1.

Modifié par Bluto Blutarskyx, 05 février 2010 - 10:39 .

[YakoHako]

Impresario wrote...

As we keep pointing out ad nauseam it's not about nudity per se but using all the available tools to create a mature emotional resonance between the player controlled protagonist and the object of its interest. This is done in film and literature and we're saying it's about time they start doing it well in games (such as this) too..

Adding nudity just to add nudity is, well, dumb.  It doesn't make it more "mature" and it doesn't somehow make it better.  I always cringe when I'm watching  a movie and it moves on to the obligatory romance and the main character always ends up having to screw someone.

[Arlaarlaarla]

Wait, I thought Bioware's motto was: 'Sex sells'.

'Hot noodz' isn't really a necessity to the game, it adds some flavour, but.. That's about it, it's nothing but graphic 'action'.

Sure it might help demonstrating/showing Shepard's affection to his/her' partner, but that was more or less shown in the dialogue and the scenes BEFORE. So, it's not like it's demonstrated, and the romance option is a great aspect (and very rare) to the game.



Not like this post is bringing anything 'new' to the debate.

[Blue_dodo]

stanley woo has some good points, why do we need sex in the games ? just because a game is mature doesn't mean it should have sex or nudity and those who are constantly saying that the developers should put it on, well you kinda sounf immiture since someon who is mature would realize the following things:



each country has there own rating standerds, in japan nudity is fine but the depiction of actual sex or organs is prohibited, in germany nudity and sex as well as any sign of decay, are prohibited and in china well...most things are heavily screened no nudity/sex, decay and a whole lot of others.



2. being mature you would realzi that sexual content is not what makes a good game, in fact in many way it degrades it since such issues as how woman are presented, what actions, etc etc, not good for media attention







for know that's all I can think of anything else could come off as me trolling.

[neftones]

Look, it's as simple as this (and I'm sure this is not an earth-shattering post): if you have a game full of graphic violence, hard-R cursing and focus your plot on death and drama, relegating the romance subplot to some innuendo-filled conversations and some hugging on a bed is far more immature and creatively-bankrupt than throwing in nudity for nudity's sake. Sex and relationships are treated with far more maturity and class in prime time television, and you only hold back the entire video game industry by blue-balling the romance subplot in this manner. If you can't portray love and sex in the same fashion as any number of movies and TV shows do, the video game industry is never going to be treated as the fully developed, mature medium it is. It'll always be relegated to being "for kids." Mass Effect is not for kids, stop treating a significant portion of it like it is.

[atheelogos]

Mega64: Mass Effect 2 Censorship

video.ign.com/dor/articles/855949/mega64/videos/mega64_prt_nmasseffect2_20410.html▼►About this video

[Sidney]

Menalaos1971 wrote...
Bioware is great at portraying characters in a realistic manner.  They could easily program different scenes for different characters.  Honestly I think the scene for the Renegade Shepard should be more animalistic than a Paragon Shepard's anyway.

In fairness they migh want to change out the romance writers because that stuff, honestly, has hit like brick for a long time. I think the stuff with Leli might be the best written for them but in general it doesn't work. One reason ME seemed so good on this point is that the mature cinematcis sort of covered up the juvenile dialog in the romance.

[Popcorn Avenger]

I think most of us ME fans agree the romance end-scene was tame & lame.

[Dr.Nighshade]

Miranda and Jacob(both of whom have amazing bodies) take their tops off,Kelly puts on some nice leather,Jack is more or less topless the entire game.Now while I can't say too much on Thane or Garrus I'm sure those scenes are just as heartwarming as the one with Tali.

All of that spells a Epic Win in terms of titillating things imo.

[Prophet of Rage]

I'd say the Mass Effect 2 sex scenes were disappointing because they simply were not as good as the scenes in the original Mass Effect. ME1's Ashley/Liara scenes were, without question, 100% class (even without the alien side-boob).

Modifié par Prophet of Rage, 06 février 2010 - 12:05 .

[Sidac]

I wouldnt mind saving the universe in my birthday suit.

[Bigeyez]

Since when did being mature mean "I want ****** and pootytang in my videogames"?



What would showing ****** and some wang do for the game? Does that progress the story? Does that add anything of relevance to the characters? Does it do anything except detract from the rest of the game, and just make Bioware a target for nutjobs who like to go on Fox News?



No it doesn't.

[neftones]

Bigeyez wrote...

Since when did being mature mean "I want ****** and pootytang in my videogames"?

What would showing ****** and some wang do for the game? Does that progress the story? Does that add anything of relevance to the characters? Does it do anything except detract from the rest of the game, and just make Bioware a target for nutjobs who like to go on Fox News?

No it doesn't.

This is all you take from this debate?  Really? 

[Forest03]

As so many have pointed out (over and over), it's not a matter of simply having nudity or sexual scenes in a game. Any good modder with the time and patience (and with a great enough desire to see that kind of thing in ME) will do it.

A better question is, did Bioware give in to the backlash that the ignorant morons on *Pox*News spewed from their inbred hillbilly pretending-to-be-an-ultra conservative (but ultimately a hypocritical pile of donkey manure) mouths?

Yes, they did. Bioware was cautious this time around. That's not necessarily a bad thing. However, what hurt many gamers' expectations in ME2, as some may have already mentioned, is the lack of tangible reward for the game's hero/heroine. Many players take the time to give their main character some sort of emotional investment throughout the narrative, but in ME2, we are given the short end of the stick. Not only were the tasteful interludes completely removed (again, not a bad thing - and if anything else, Kelly is still there with her erotic dancing), but the romantic dialogue (still) feels terribly uninspired.

Lonely Shepard is lonely.

ps. @ Impresario. Well said.

Modifié par Forest03, 06 février 2010 - 12:34 .

[The Demonologist]

Eh. I'll admit that I find the idea of nudity, tastefully done or no to be required as some form of reward is...



Silly.



No other word. Not weird, stupid, dumb, none of these. Just silly. I would not be bothered by the return of either ME1 or ME2's style, but I always find the reasonings for why such things should be returned or added rather lackluster in threads like this. If it were true Censorship, I'd be iffy. But it doesn't seem to me like anything is really lost.

[Bigeyez]

neftones wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

Since when did being mature mean "I want ****** and pootytang in my videogames"?

What would showing ****** and some wang do for the game? Does that progress the story? Does that add anything of relevance to the characters? Does it do anything except detract from the rest of the game, and just make Bioware a target for nutjobs who like to go on Fox News?

No it doesn't.

This is all you take from this debate?  Really? 

Yup, it is. Nudity, for nuditys sake, does nothing to further story, dialogue, or the characters themselves. It has no point in Mass Effect and Mass Effect wouldn't be any better just because Bioware decided to throw some ****** on the screen.

Can a sex scene work in a videogame? Sure. It can work in them the same way it does for movies or books. In Mass effect though? No. It just doesn't fit the type of story Bioware is telling. In my opinion a graphic sex scene would seem really out of place in either ME. 

[ctcc42]

People are never going to agree on how much sex is or isn’t tasteful in a game. Every one comes at the question from a different perspective and a different level of interest. So why don’t we consider something less debatable.



As the degree of sex in a game increases so dose demand, but only to a point. Somewhere there is a sweet spot between the curiosity of adolescents and the morals of parents which will achieve maximum profit.



Achieving maximum profit doesn’t just mean dividends to shareholders though. It directly affects the amount of resources those shareholders are prepared to provide for Bioware to develop future titles.



So what is more important to us, a longer sex scene that we could simply have imagined for ourselves, or getting the greatest possible resources behind mass effect 3? I vote Bioware keep trying to hit the sweet spot so I can have a better ME3 experience, but maybe I am in a minority.

[neftones]

Bigeyez wrote...

neftones wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

Since when did being mature mean "I want ****** and pootytang in my videogames"?

What would showing ****** and some wang do for the game? Does that progress the story? Does that add anything of relevance to the characters? Does it do anything except detract from the rest of the game, and just make Bioware a target for nutjobs who like to go on Fox News?

No it doesn't.

This is all you take from this debate?  Really? 

Yup, it is. Nudity, for nuditys sake, does nothing to further story, dialogue, or the characters themselves. It has no point in Mass Effect and Mass Effect wouldn't be any better just because Bioware decided to throw some ****** on the screen.

Can a sex scene work in a videogame? Sure. It can work in them the same way it does for movies or books. In Mass effect though? No. It just doesn't fit the type of story Bioware is telling. In my opinion a graphic sex scene would seem really out of place in either ME. 

wow.  Pigeonholing this into whether there should be ****** or not is as bad as anything Fox News would spew out.  Sure, there are a few horny 14 year olds dying to see some sexy pixels, but that is not what this debate is about and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. 

If a sex scene doesn't fit into Mass Effect, a game that spends a significant amount of time on pursuing a sexual relationship with other characters, where the hell does it fit?  What are you even saying?  No one's expecting a money shot.  You, and others, seem to be stuck on this aburd idea that there is a call for pornography in ME.  Think about this for more than 5 seconds and you might see otherwise.  

[Survalli]

like others who responded in this thread...the game was designed with kids in mind. "Sexual Situations" should be rephrased to "Implied Sexual Situations" "Mature" should be rephrased to PG13. The most offensive subject matter in this game was the crude joking from the Normandy's Engineer. Make me a real Adult game please

Modifié par Survalli, 06 février 2010 - 12:51 .

[Axeface]

Agree with OP.

Should be nudity, full stop.

[gneissguy2003]

Bigeyez wrote...

Since when did being mature mean "I want ****** and pootytang in my videogames"?

What would showing ****** and some wang do for the game? Does that progress
the story? Does that add anything of relevance to the characters? Does
it do anything except detract from the rest of the game, and just make
Bioware a target for nutjobs who like to go on Fox News?

No it doesn't.

Okay, this is just getting frustrating now. I don't typically like getting into discussions like this, especially on an internet forum where it all seems so pointless, but I feel compelled.

No offense, but when did the wholesale exclusion of intimacy and sexuality denote maturity either?  And let's be honest here, the ONLY people talking about nudity and explicit sex are people like you who obviously don't want it at all in the game. Meanwhile, the majority of the people complaining about the romantic scenes in ME2 do NOT want to see some messed up, raunchy, hardcore sex scene! They want exactly what they got with ME1: a tasteful, well thought out, artistic, and emotionally fulfilling romantic scene between your character and the object of their affections that in no way showed anything explicit or gratuitously sexual. Why and how is that so hard to understand? Why do people think that the only options are either gentle petting or going buckwild with private parts being thrown across their screen?

I understand Mr. Woo's comment of it being Bioware's call on what is inevitably put into the game because it is their game, and I think that's fine.  However, I feel somewhat incensed whenever I read some of these comments and people says things such as "why would adding sex to a game make it more mature? it seems childish and immature".  I feel incensed because any honest, well-adjusted, mature adult has an understanding of sexuality and shouldn't be bothered by having to deal with it.  The scenes in ME1 more or less set the bar for what they can and should strive for in their games (at least in my opinion), and anything less is Bioware not creating to their full and God-given potential. And while I have not as of yet gotten to any of the romantic scenes in ME2, if they are going to be what some people in this thread are saying they will be then I, for one, am probably going to be disappointed.

I understand that each person has their own opinion on what is or is not acceptable. However, in a game where the player is assumed to be mature enough to deal with issues such as actively choosing to have their character
interrupt a conversation by blowing a defenseless person's brains out, it seems rather ridiculous to then sit there and say that it would be immature to include anything, even a bit of bare skin, that could imply sexuality or sensualness. To be honest, in my opinion it is those people who are requesting a return to the ME1-type romance scenes that have been the most mature and reasonable people in this entire discussion, especially the OP.

Perhaps the best thing for Bioware to do, as someone suggested, is to just create an option where such things would be censored if the player didn't want to see them. In the end, though, it's their choice and we the players will have very little say in the end-product.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 06 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[neftones]

well said, gneissguy2003.

[Sidney]

neftones wrote...

wow.  Pigeonholing this into whether there should be ****** or not is as bad as anything Fox News would spew out.  Sure, there are a few horny 14 year olds dying to see some sexy pixels, but that is not what this debate is about and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. 

If a sex scene doesn't fit into Mass Effect, a game that spends a significant amount of time on pursuing a sexual relationship with other characters, where the hell does it fit?  What are you even saying?  No one's expecting a money shot.  You, and others, seem to be stuck on this aburd idea that there is a call for pornography in ME.  Think about this for more than 5 seconds and you might see otherwise.  

I thnk the whole issue is this: I don't need sex in my game but if the developers want to add a mature element like that into the game then they should be expected to handle it in a mature way. I'm not sure that their two most recent games handled the issue, visually, as maturely as ME did.

What we've got in ME2 and DAO doesn't feel like growth from ME but a retreat from it.

[neftones]

Sidney wrote...

neftones wrote...

wow.  Pigeonholing this into whether there should be ****** or not is as bad as anything Fox News would spew out.  Sure, there are a few horny 14 year olds dying to see some sexy pixels, but that is not what this debate is about and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. 

If a sex scene doesn't fit into Mass Effect, a game that spends a significant amount of time on pursuing a sexual relationship with other characters, where the hell does it fit?  What are you even saying?  No one's expecting a money shot.  You, and others, seem to be stuck on this aburd idea that there is a call for pornography in ME.  Think about this for more than 5 seconds and you might see otherwise.  

I thnk the whole issue is this: I don't need sex in my game but if the developers want to add a mature element like that into the game then they should be expected to handle it in a mature way. I'm not sure that their two most recent games handled the issue, visually, as maturely as ME did.

What we've got in ME2 and DAO doesn't feel like growth from ME but a retreat from it.

agreed.