181 réponses à ce sujet

[elmephd1]

Lord Atlia wrote...

I think it is because most woman in RPGs are either >30 if they are developed in the West or <18 if they are developed in the East and thus a youthful adult boggles minds. 

Hilarious because it's so damned true, atleast in the last 10 years or so.

[hawat333]

Since there was no actual romance development, yes.

Not suitable for a reproductive relationship anyways, and that's in our (and in Shepard's by extension) genes anyways.

[ranzarok]

Color me stupid in regards to romance or love for that matter, but was there ever any indication that Tali had a thing for Shepard back in ME1, on the old Normandy. I went through all of the dialogue options with her and can't find a single reference or hint that she would be interested in Shepard, in that way.

Did I miss something?

[Garuda One]

If only Shepard and Tali could have a child...

[Cutlass Jack]

ranzarok wrote...

Color me stupid in regards to romance or love for that matter, but was there ever any indication that Tali had a thing for Shepard back in ME1, on the old Normandy. I went through all of the dialogue options with her and can't find a single reference or hint that she would be interested in Shepard, in that way.
Did I miss something?

It was pretty apparent to me in ME1. It was in the sound of her voice and how she loved talking with you at every opportunity. To the point I thought she was a possible LI in that game and was sad it didnt work out that way. I felt a much stronger connection with her in that game than any of the actual LIs.

Also the body language thing Kelly mentioned? That actually started in the first game.

[Turkeysock]

chool77 wrote...

the point im getting at is that it seems like a high school thing...

where she just got taking away in the moment ..

he did not really have to be all that in to it before she went with him..

so maybe she is just a ****[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Dude... don't you know? High school mirrors what the real world is on a smaller scale... As that one song goes, High School never ends man.

[Default137]

tbh, Tali most likely started as a crush, this is obvious if you listen to her talk about how she felt about Shepard in ME1, however, very eary on in ME1 that crush started to develop, and by ME2, its no longer a crush, but she really does care about Shepard deeply, she's just unwilling to move on that, because she's far to scared he'll reject her, and she doesn't want the only good thing in her life to be crushed like that.

Also, there is the whole she is willing to risk death to be with him physically thing.

And yes, Liara has always creeped me out, since she is only 14 in the first game, and only 16 in the second game, and does show a lot of indications she is not very mature as a character, yet everyone just can't wait to introduce her to their happy little space pole because she's blue.

Modifié par Default137, 05 février 2010 - 07:48 .

[deusofnull]

AngryTigerP wrote...

deusofnull wrote...

I think she is a little past the "crush" age. Shes 24, not 16

Remember Quarian age =/= human age, neccessarily.

However, there is no doubt that she was likely adult in all but name pre-Pilgrimage (ME1), and the two years have cemented this.

I listened to a Tali conversation on YouTube from ME1 because I was curious about what she had said about something, and I was blown away how much higher-pitched and immature-sounding (that is, voice sounded undeveloped) she was.

Quarians have changed socially and biologically durring the time since the Geth revolt.  300 years.  This would imply many generations having gone by, but at least 3-4.  Look at it like that and you figure that Quarians would have to live a similar life span to Humans.

[epoch_]

She has a crush on you at first, but then when you tell her you feel the same way, that is no longer just a crush.

[Novacain999]

hawat333 wrote...

Since there was no actual romance development, yes.
Not suitable for a reproductive relationship anyways, and that's in our (and in Shepard's by extension) genes anyways.

...what?

So where exactly do gay people fit on your chain of "non reproductive relationships" then?

[AngryTigerP]

ranzarok wrote...

Color me stupid in regards to romance or love for that matter, but was there ever any indication that Tali had a thing for Shepard back in ME1, on the old Normandy. I went through all of the dialogue options with her and can't find a single reference or hint that she would be interested in Shepard, in that way.
Did I miss something?

Remember that, socially, she was just a child in Quarian terms, IRREGARDLESS of physical stature, since she had yet to complete her Pilgrimage. Couple that with her fairly shy 'dating personality' (which you see as you enter the ME2 romance) and the fact that she probably thought of her love as a crush, as well as her self-assurance that Shepard would never feel for her (the very reason people will enter crushes), and there you have it. She hides her feelings.

If Kelly is to be believed, though, her relatively quick response to your presence indicated SOMETHING.

[AngryTigerP]

deusofnull wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

deusofnull wrote...

I think she is a little past the "crush" age. Shes 24, not 16

Remember Quarian age =/= human age, neccessarily.

However, there is no doubt that she was likely adult in all but name pre-Pilgrimage (ME1), and the two years have cemented this.

I listened to a Tali conversation on YouTube from ME1 because I was curious about what she had said about something, and I was blown away how much higher-pitched and immature-sounding (that is, voice sounded undeveloped) she was.

Quarians have changed socially and biologically durring the time since the Geth revolt.  300 years.  This would imply many generations having gone by, but at least 3-4.  Look at it like that and you figure that Quarians would have to live a similar life span to Humans.

Similar, yes. That's not to say that they reach adolescence or physical adulthood at the same time though.

I'm just saying that to use age as evidence is pointless, because at the fundamental level, these things are not biologically human. Accordingly, I base my reasoning on psychological characteristics, as most species have minds much like humans' (albeit, sometimes at extremes of human archetypes -- see Krogans).

Modifié par AngryTigerP, 05 février 2010 - 07:50 .

[Ulicus]

Default137 wrote...

And yes, Liara has always creeped me out, since she is only 14 in the first game, and only 16 in the second game, and does show a lot of indications she is not very mature as a character, yet everyone just can't wait to introduce her to their happy little space pole because she's blue.

Please stop making things up.

Liara has a doctorate and has been undertaking "dedicated research" on the protheans for fifty years. You can't extrapolate anything of her age in "human years" from the fact she is considered "barely an adult" (or "barely more than a child") by the age of 106 in asari culture.

Modifié par Ulicus, 05 février 2010 - 07:50 .

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryTigerP wrote...

ranzarok wrote...

Color me stupid in regards to romance or love for that matter, but was there ever any indication that Tali had a thing for Shepard back in ME1, on the old Normandy. I went through all of the dialogue options with her and can't find a single reference or hint that she would be interested in Shepard, in that way.
Did I miss something?

Remember that, socially, she was just a child in Quarian terms, IRREGARDLESS of physical stature, since she had yet to complete her Pilgrimage.

Untrue. She wasn't considered a child. You don't send your children off alone into the universe. She was considered adult in age but had to complete her pilgramage to prove her value as an adult. It's completely akin to turning 21 as a human. Not say, turning 16.

[casedawgz]

It seemed pretty legitimate. Generally people's crushes don't save them from exile, console them over the dead bodies of their fathers, and do all of the other things Shepard does for Tali and remain crushes. Considering Shepard's track record in his interactions with Tali, what's not to love?

[Cutlass Jack]

Ulicus wrote...

Please stop making things up.

Liara has a doctorate and has been undertaking "dedicated research" on the protheans for fifty years. You can't extrapolate anything of her age in "human years" from the fact she is considered "barely an adult" (or "barely more than a child") by the age of 106 in asari culture.

Physically she's a 14 year old. Doogie Howser had a doctorate too, but that didn't make him physically an adult.

[AngryTigerP]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

ranzarok wrote...

Color me stupid in regards to romance or love for that matter, but was there ever any indication that Tali had a thing for Shepard back in ME1, on the old Normandy. I went through all of the dialogue options with her and can't find a single reference or hint that she would be interested in Shepard, in that way.
Did I miss something?

Remember that, socially, she was just a child in Quarian terms, IRREGARDLESS of physical stature, since she had yet to complete her Pilgrimage.

Untrue. She wasn't considered a child. You don't send your children off alone into the universe. She was considered adult in age but had to complete her pilgramage to prove her value as an adult. It's completely akin to turning 21 as a human. Not say, turning 16.

You are applying human standards to an alien species, again (or maybe it's your first instance of it, but still), with the bit about "not sending your children alone into the universe". What are Asari Maidens, then?

[rumination888]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

TheTWF wrote...

Only Thane and Suze really come off as real romances. The rest seem like flings sparked by nerves.

I disagree. Tali was the real romance. Built up over two games. Everyone else came off as flings. Even all 3 ME1 romances. Thane was very romantic in dialogue I'd agree. But the whole 'dying' thing made it seem more like a fling he'd perfectly remember for the rest of his short life.

But still, I'd put him as the most romantic option for FemShep.

How was Tali's romance built up over two games?
In the first game, Tali was nothing more than a talking encyclopedia of Quarian and Geth history.

"YOU'RE WRONG! SHES MORE THAN THAT! TALI WAS MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC IN ME1! MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC! MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC! AND IN ME2 THIS MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC GIRL CONFESSES TO ME! /SPLOOGE "

[Lord Atlia]

I think one of the things about all these long lived fake species (Asari, elves, etc) is that old age is revered. Thus a 106 year old Asari might be treated as a 14 year old kid when it comes to how society views their opinions but not necessarily how mature they are.

[challenger18]

rumination888 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

TheTWF wrote...

Only Thane and Suze really come off as real romances. The rest seem like flings sparked by nerves.

I disagree. Tali was the real romance. Built up over two games. Everyone else came off as flings. Even all 3 ME1 romances. Thane was very romantic in dialogue I'd agree. But the whole 'dying' thing made it seem more like a fling he'd perfectly remember for the rest of his short life.

But still, I'd put him as the most romantic option for FemShep.

How was Tali's romance built up over two games?
In the first game, Tali was nothing more than a talking encyclopedia of Quarian and Geth history.

"YOU'RE WRONG! SHES MORE THAN THAT! TALI WAS MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC IN ME1! MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC! MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC! AND IN ME2 THIS MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC GIRL CONFESSES TO ME! /SPLOOGE "

...

You might want to get that checked out.

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryTigerP wrote...

You are applying human standards to an alien species, again (or maybe it's your first instance of it, but still), with the bit about "not sending your children alone into the universe". What are Asari Maidens, then?

I'm actually applying what the codex said on it. Liara did run off on her own as a kid, defying her mother, but that was the exception, not the norm. Most of the other maidens seemed to wait til around 200 years to do that. Morinth being a huge exception since she ran away at 40.

[Default137]

Ulicus wrote...

Default137 wrote...

And yes, Liara has always creeped me out, since she is only 14 in the first game, and only 16 in the second game, and does show a lot of indications she is not very mature as a character, yet everyone just can't wait to introduce her to their happy little space pole because she's blue.

Please stop making things up.

Liara has a doctorate and has been undertaking "dedicated research" on the protheans for fifty years. You can't extrapolate anything of her age in "human years" from the fact she is considered "barely an adult" (or "barely more than a child") by the age of 106 in asari culture.

Culture matters quite a bit in age, sorry to have to tell you this.

Humans live 100 years, or thereabouts, so 20 is usually 20, though this is starting to change, and 30s-40 is becoming a much younger age then it was previously.

Asari can live up to 1000 years I think? So 106 is uh, like 15-18ish? Can't really pinpoint a definitive age with that.

So, the only indication we can tell of her age is she's young, alright, but exactly HOW young? Well, lets look at her personality, during the Romance, she seems extremely incapable of making choices for herself, seems very naive, and while brilliant, and she does have a degree, she overall does not seem responsible/mature, and rather seems very immature.

Degrees, and such don't really matter that much, as we don't actually know their culture very well, and they could easily be done with their equivilent of College by 18 or so, in fact, we as humans are thinking of switching our educational methods as well to a very similar system, because most of the development happens when you are younger, even without this however, I believe it is mentioned she was remarkable talented for an Asari, and while I would have to go through ME1 again, its mentioned she was somewhat of a prodigy amongst her own people?

If I had to guess, I'd say Liara was about 16 or so in human terms in ME1, and is 18 in ME2, she's just now taking up responsibilities, and has no idea how to handle it, and is just lashing out at anyone and everyone, she also seems to have a rather idealistic view of what she's going to do to one of the most powerful people in the entire galaxy, which is a not something a responsibile adult would have.

/stops bringing the thread off topic to go check and see what people say about Liara in ME1 again >.>

[Lord Atlia]

rumination888 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

TheTWF wrote...

Only Thane and Suze really come off as real romances. The rest seem like flings sparked by nerves.

I disagree. Tali was the real romance. Built up over two games. Everyone else came off as flings. Even all 3 ME1 romances. Thane was very romantic in dialogue I'd agree. But the whole 'dying' thing made it seem more like a fling he'd perfectly remember for the rest of his short life.

But still, I'd put him as the most romantic option for FemShep.

How was Tali's romance built up over two games?
In the first game, Tali was nothing more than a talking encyclopedia of Quarian and Geth history.

"YOU'RE WRONG! SHES MORE THAN THAT! TALI WAS MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC IN ME1! MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC! MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC! AND IN ME2 THIS MYSTERIOUS AND EXOTIC GIRL CONFESSES TO ME! /SPLOOGE "

Tali states she has been in love with you since the events of ME1 and Kelly Chambers noticed lustful body language as soon as Tali was brought on board the Normandy, she just bottled up her feelings in ME1 (i.e. Bioware is retroactively applying character traits which isn't retconning anything but just telling the PC about part of a character that wasn't fully explored given the resources of ME1)

[crimzontearz]

ranzarok wrote...

Color me stupid in regards to romance or love for that matter, but was there ever any indication that Tali had a thing for Shepard back in ME1, on the old Normandy. I went through all of the dialogue options with her and can't find a single reference or hint that she would be interested in Shepard, in that way.
Did I miss something?

she did have an interest in you

Kelly says she might not express it but it is in her body language.....Shepard can reply "I always thought there was chemistry"

also Tali herself says "I watched your face when alenko died on virmire......I watched you for so long" and about linking envirosuits "I never trusted anyone to do that....well....not a quarian"

oh yes which also means she is a virgin......MMMMMM