7875 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Erm they did go rogue, either in the end of mission report or in an email after (forgot which) TIM states that he had called for the place to be shutdown just before the riots started. All the doctors involved that survived were dismissed from Cerberus and to all intents and purposes Shep and Jack did Cerberus a favour by blasting the place to kingdom come.

If you take Miranda with you on this mission she does make a comment when one of the play logs has the guy talking about TIM not knowing what they are truly doing stating that they obviously went rogue.

That being said, if you want to take the 'anti-cerberus' line of thought, Miranda pretty much is blinded by loyalty due to all the stuff Cerberus has done for her. So it isn't a case of dumb, it is a case of believing they are doing the right thing.

New Page needs Miranda Pic

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 10 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[Sleepy Buddha]

MegWithAMouth wrote...

Anyway, back to Miranda..... I know everyone wants her to get armor in ME3, but I... I liked the outfit. It was like, yeah. She's so badass she doesn't NEED armor. It also looked way better than armor. But that's just me.

Finally, someone who understands. She's the perfect woman, she doesn't need armor.

But some will say, "It bothers me" or "It's not realistic". And to that I say, we're travelling in freaking outer space, fighting gigantic robots hellbent on destroying every living thing in the galaxy, talking to aliens and using telekinetic powers and the thing that bothers you is a character's clothing choices? This is fiction.

I agree with you Meg, I want Bioware to keep the skin-tight catsuits and high-helled boots for Miranda. It looks so much better than armor.

Besides, armor is in my view kind of useless for someone like her. I see her as someone who relies more on agility and speed to survive. She's got shields to protect her and perhaps Bioware could give her barriers. Armor would be more of a hindrance, IMO.

[Sleepy Buddha]

Spiro12 wrote...

I wouldn't have a problem with Miranda is she wasn't so damned useless. Everything she touches turns to crap. She is absolutely no good during the final mission.

Put her in charge of both fireteams, that's where she belongs in the suicide mission, since she's a leader (if you have her loyalty). The comment Jack makes about no one following her is just to mislead you.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Sleepy Buddha wrote...

MegWithAMouth wrote...

Anyway, back to Miranda..... I know everyone wants her to get armor in ME3, but I... I liked the outfit. It was like, yeah. She's so badass she doesn't NEED armor. It also looked way better than armor. But that's just me.

Finally, someone who understands. She's the perfect woman, she doesn't need armor.

But some will say, "It bothers me" or "It's not realistic". And to that I say, we're travelling in freaking outer space, fighting gigantic robots hellbent on destroying every living thing in the galaxy, talking to aliens and using telekinetic powers and the thing that bothers you is a character's clothing choices? This is fiction.

I agree with you Meg, I want Bioware to keep the skin-tight catsuits and high-helled boots for Miranda. It looks so much better than armor.

Besides, armor is in my view kind of useless for someone like her. I see her as someone who relies more on agility and speed to survive. She's got shields to protect her and perhaps Bioware could give her barriers. Armor would be more of a hindrance, IMO.

I agree almost to an extent but for some missions I can understand that she really should've had a helmet on rather than just the nose/mouth breather. Could've given her a helm like Joker has at the start, that way everyone should be happy, as get to see her face and she can still wear her sexy catsuits and high heeled fmbs

[ComTrav]

Sir Ulrich: I wish to appreciate you for finding a good fully-rendered pic. The only one I could find was really tiny.

Modifié par ComTrav, 10 février 2010 - 02:57 .

[Makariel]

When I started ME2 I was sure to hate Miranda. She seemed to be too cliché-ridden to me. But when I started talking to her I realized how well rounded the character was. After her loyalty mission I had all preconceptions thrown overboard.



Besides having an interesting personality she's also pretty useful in combat thanks to overload/warp/slam and as officer. I had not doubt that she can lead the fireteams in the suicide mission and is on par with Garrus for me when it cames to trust in their abilities.



Please bring her back in ME3!

[Senk99]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Erm they did go rogue, either in the end of mission report or in an email after (forgot which) TIM states that he had called for the place to be shutdown just before the riots started. All the doctors involved that survived were dismissed from Cerberus and to all intents and purposes Shep and Jack did Cerberus a favour by blasting the place to kingdom come.

I would call that email and explanation simply a damage-control attempt... and quite a bad one.

TIM basically tries to save face before you and tries to avoid getting you as enemy (or strengthen the negative view of Cerberus from ME1) for something that has happened so long ago.

I would even call out TIM on this email and say it's a big BS.
Black Ops organizations, like Cerberus, conducting extremely illegal researches will include additional reporting structure exactly to avoid cells going rouge.
E.g.: Like a common guard who sees the daily operation and raise the red flag in case something happens. The existence of these additional controls (internal sleeping agents) are treated as a known fact by the cell's leadership and acts as a natural brake before the cell push anything out of the record. If TIM trusts his cell's leadership in such an extent, that's simply stupid... and we know he not that kind of a guy.

On the Normandy2, you have Miranda and Jacob as your obvious watchers. Miranda always writes reports on how the mission is progressing and assessing the situation. The crew is monitored by a professional, Kelly, and someone also reads her reports...
Additionally you have all the non-Alliance-past crew members acting as potential sleeper agents and you have all the listening devices around the ship (as Tali & Morinth mentions).

In ME2 you turn both Miranda and Jacob. You save your crew and they are not in the position to do anything when you become a rouge-Cerberus agent. EDI just takes over the ship and uses it as her new shiny body. All three layers of guarantees TIM had built in fail in one critical moment.
For Miranda, saying during Jack's mission, the operation has gone rouge... is like a 'plausible denial'.
Just watch some TV series out there if you need inspiration how this kind of groups work would go.... or join a Black Ops organization. (in one of the MMOs out there, like EVE online).

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

If you take Miranda with you on this mission she does make a comment when one of the play logs has the guy talking about TIM not knowing what they are truly doing stating that they obviously went rogue.

That being said, if you want to take the 'anti-cerberus' line of thought, Miranda pretty much is blinded by loyalty due to all the stuff Cerberus has done for her. So it isn't a case of dumb, it is a case of believing they are doing the right thing.

I agree, Miranda is blinded with her Cerberus loyalty and only starts to have her own moral compass, when you help her with her little problem.

Question:
I don't remember correctly Miranda's loyalty mission's close screen text. What does it say? Does Cerberus know where her sister is moved to?  That can come back and bite in her genetically perfect ass.
If yes and you have decided to blow up the station and showed your middle finger to TIM,  it would mean you have to deal with the situation again in an ME2 DLC or in ME3.
FFFFUUUUU

[Andysilv]

Her sisters location is hidden in the mission log. It also says she will remain loyal to Cerberus and now trusts Shepard. I just this second finished it, lol.

[ComTrav]

Senk99 wrote...

I would even call out TIM on this email and say it's a big BS.
Black Ops organizations, like Cerberus, conducting extremely illegal researches will include additional reporting structure exactly to avoid cells going rouge.
E.g.: Like a common guard who sees the daily operation and raise the red flag in case something happens. The existence of these additional controls (internal sleeping agents) are treated as a known fact by the cell's leadership and acts as a natural brake before the cell push anything out of the record. If TIM trusts his cell's leadership in such an extent, that's simply stupid... and we know he not that kind of a guy.

I'm pretty sure one of the videos in the mission is 'we'll do what we have to do, and get to TIM back on the results." I'm coming up on that mission in my current playthrough, I'll have to check...

But I pulled out this passage because I think you're attributing too much to these 'additional controls'. Organizations where secrecy and compartmentation are key have major problems with information sharing. (http://www.foreignpo...ey_wont_tell_us for a good example. The 9/11 Commission Report is another example, but quite a bit longer.) If you don't know what's going on at the facility, how do you know something's wrong? And if only the top-level people interact with TiM, how's he to know that something's wrong? It's highly unlikely anyone in any other cell knew what that group was doing, so Miranda's shock is appropriate.

(And as long as they deliver results, does TIM really care?)

The idea that the people 'in the field' feel disconnected from the central control and going off and doing their own thing is a problem in any large organization, but the secrecy and pressure invovled in covert organizations makes it a particularly acute problem.

[Delaquarix]

I was following her from "Chuck" before and even in game she is beautiful

[ComTrav]

Delaquarix wrote...

I was following her from "Chuck" before and even in game she is beautiful

Yes, she is.

And she has a poster! (Which is out of stock)

http://biowarestore....loyalist-poster

[Rathias0114]

@Com - a point well made.



Unless TIM was directly involved in that operation (Miranda herself said it was rare for him to even do such) - then I honestly think he had no clear idea what was going on in that facility. I do believe he had an idea, because he's damn good at reading people - but I don't think he got the clear picture until it was too late.



Also, it was mentioned before in this thread - but if you bring Miranda along to Jack's loyalty mission, when she says "They kept -children- here?" the mix of emotions in that sentence is brilliant. Very well done job by Yvonne.



Another thing - I'm not exactly sure if I trust/distrust Cerberus. I'm not exactly pledging my loyalty to TIM after destroying the Collector base.. and I do understand that some of the things they do is wrong.. but what about the STG? Creating and modifying the Genophage? What makes -them- different?



What makes the Spectres different? They operate outside of the law.



The only reason, in my opinion, why I think people hate Cerberus is because they are the only group where we've seen the darker side of. But every top secret organization has it's dark secrets.



I mean, look at Miranda - highest ranking officer in the Lazarus cell - and firmly believes what she is doing was right.



Mordin - ranking officer in the STG - modified the genophage to nearly destroy the krogan - and firmly believed what he was doing -was right-.



But we'll see..



How mad can I be at Cerberus? They gave me Miranda - owe them SOMETHING.

[Andysilv]

Damn, did I buy all of them?

[Titan98RG]

Rathias0114 wrote...

But every top secret organization has it's dark secrets.

and that's why they're "black" ops.

[Delaquarix]

Darn! i cant get this stupid signature to work

Well nevermind

Modifié par Delaquarix, 10 février 2010 - 03:50 .

[Sleepy Buddha]

ComTrav wrote...

Delaquarix wrote...

I was following her from "Chuck" before and even in game she is beautiful

Yes, she is.

And she has a poster! (Which is out of stock)

http://biowarestore....loyalist-poster

I got to get me one of those. And the art one with Shepard fighting the collectors has her as well, fighting a praetorian with her back(side) turned to us. Actually, Miranda is the only other character in that one.

I hope this is a favorable sign of good (Miranda related) things to come.

Come on, Bioware. Make that Miranda poster available so I can buy both.

[Senk99]

Rathias0114 wrote...

Unless TIM was directly involved in that operation (Miranda herself said it was rare for him to even do such) - then I honestly think he had no clear idea what was going on in that facility. I do believe he had an idea, because he's damn good at reading people - but I don't think he got the clear picture until it was too late.

Hmmm, EDI says diffrent stuff when you remove the block. TIM (Cerberus) is only running ~12 projects as overseeing more streches his personal resources.
<3Miranda<3
:sick:TIM:sick:
When you are about the destroy/purge the Collector's base. There is a conversation option with TIM about 'Cerberus creating more Human-based Reapers'. TIM avoids the answer in a quite clever way. He doesn't say: No, we won't do that. He says: we will do everything necessary to secure humanity's surviving the Reaper-danger and dominance after that.
I found it quite funny, how many people hasn't seen that... or maybe I'm just a paranoid guy.

Btw, I have finished another play, where I kept the base with my renegade femShap. But I loved when Miranda has cut TIM, with her one-liner, when you are about to destroy the base.

[SnakeHelah]

Heyy i see we're off the front page so PICTURE TIME!

[Valmy]

tonnactus wrote...

Rathias0114 wrote...




During the loyalty mission with Jack - it's painfully obvious THAT specific Cerberus cell had gone rogue and began conducting experiments behind the Illusive Man's back.

Never read the books,right??
Nothing went rogue.The illusive man has the control.He was the one who ordered to slaughter the quarians,not a single cell.What was Mirandas answer to this:"This was nothing personal".
How dumb a person could be??

TIM knows exactly what is going on with most of his projects.  Even if you accept that he lost control of the Subject Zero project, what he decides to replace it with is not that much better if you read ascension.

But TIM doesn't really give a crap about individuals, everybody is just a tool for the greater cause.  Using children as guinea pigs to make powerful human biotics to rival the Asari is just one of his little projects.  Even Miranda knows she is only a resource to him, but is fine with that as she thinks his cause is a good one.

And the only way it gets personal with TIM is if you betray him.  Otherwise yeah, it was nothing personal what he did to Jack.  She as a person was never really a consideration in the first place.

The reason Subject Zero project was a failure is not because it was cruel but because it did not produce the result TIM was looking for.

Modifié par Valmy, 10 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[ComTrav]

Reposting this, since we seem to have more people around atm:

http://social.biowar...435/polls/2013/



(And it's funny, because I totally ninja'd the link from it being reposted in the Tali thread.)

[Valmy]

ComTrav wrote...

Reposting this, since we seem to have more people around atm:
http://social.biowar...435/polls/2013/

(And it's funny, because I totally ninja'd the link from it being reposted in the Tali thread.)

Oh man, we have no chance in that poll.

[ComTrav]

Valmy wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

Reposting this, since we seem to have more people around atm:
http://social.biowar...435/polls/2013/

(And it's funny, because I totally ninja'd the link from it being reposted in the Tali thread.)

Oh man, we have no chance in that poll.

Honestly, I'll be happy if we're competitive. There are probably not a lot of characters who would even get 30 percent against Tali, which is about where Miranda is now. Plus, it's kind of cool that they picked Miranda for the poll....everyone knows Tali's the champion, it's kind of like Miranda's ranked #1 contender.

And on some level I don't like "Character X vs. Y" polls, because I'm sure lots of people are fans of both characters.

Modifié par ComTrav, 10 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[Titan98RG]

Senk99 wrote...

There is a conversation option with TIM about 'Cerberus creating more Human-based Reapers'. TIM avoids the answer in a quite clever way. He doesn't say: No, we won't do that. He says: we will do everything necessary to secure humanity's surviving the Reaper-danger and dominance after that.

i think your paranoia is founded since the next mass effect book is about putting reaper tech into a human.

[Valmy]

Rathias0114 wrote...

The only reason, in my opinion, why I think people hate Cerberus is because they are the only group where we've seen the darker side of. But every top secret organization has it's dark secrets. 

True but Cerberus has no accountability to anybody besides the whims of TIM.  That is what makes it a very dangerous organization, whereas the Council despite all its corruption and inefficiency and political shenanigans is preferable.

That is not to say that Cerberus is all bad.  They certainly have their uses but if TIM were to get his way that would be a very bad thing for the Galaxy.