7875 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Arijharn wrote...

:'(

With regards your question, beyond all shadow of a doubt she would

Edit: Also in case you didn't realise, in my last post I was quoting Captain Jack Sparrow

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 16 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[Rathias0114]

@Ari;



I loved the reference you made to Miranda being a wine glass with a minute crack in it. It was a perfect comparison.

[ComTrav]

Arijharn wrote...

Obviously, I disagree with you and mainly on the 'daddy issue' part. Sure she has issues, but I think it was well told in regards to the standards she puts upon herself (and feels that everyone else does, including Cerberus). To me, I think her character is like a really expensive champagne glass, but with a minute crack running down it's length. She tries to escape her flaws by building walls around her to the extent that not even she can surmount anymore, until at least Shephard comes along and sledgehammers them down.

When i think about it (and I could be totally wrong) she strikes me as a character that is, as Wilson puts it, an 'Ice Queen.' She's told this so much that she accepts it, so when the person she resurrects from the dead turns out to be as good as all the stories about him indicate (lets face it, Shephard is larger than life, he's a genuine hero) and correctly guesses her flaws within lets say weeks of meeting her she is forced to confront her reality and personal flaws. Maybe se finds it lihberating? She also finds that she keeps on looking at Shephard's ass (just like Bastilla Shan no doubt) so she's so confused about what she's feeling, she's attracted to our hero, but really afraid of acting on it because she finds that Shephard is exhilarating.

This is interesting.
I think people get confused about Miranda sometimes, because she's supremely confident in some aspects of her character, but in other places she's not happy with herself. When TiM said, "Hey, could you bring Shepard back from the dead?" I can't imagine Miranda saying anything other then, "Yes. It will take a lot of money and time, but yes." Like some other high-performing individuals I have known, she has conflated her achievements, accomplishments, and abilities with character and personhood. (Which is compounded by the fact she feels that her accomplishments aren't really hers, only her mistakes are.)

And Shepard cuts through all of her surface accomplishments and sees her for who she is; which, in turn, is sort of freeing for her because she can be accepted for who she is, and not just as some impossible standard of perfection. At the same time, she's worried about dropping her guard.

Miranda's ambivalence is true of any relationship--if this person knows what I'm REALLY like, will they still like me? The fact that she's supremely confident and capable, but shares her self-doubt with Shepard, is what really makes the relationship with me.

[Valmy]

ComTrav wrote...
Yeah, to read these boards, BG2 probably was the pinnacle of gaming. Ever. I wonder if when BG2 came out, people on the forums (if they existed) claimed that BG1 was better.

Hehe yes I was on these boards during BG1 developement right up until NWN came out.

Looking at the board then you would think BG2 was the worst thing ever and Bioware was going straight down hill.  It happens every game.

[Valmy]

Morogrem wrote...

after going through her romance arc I can say that she is the most boring romantic arc in the series, even more so than either of the 2 for the original (including ashley). hell the romantic arc in Jade empire was better than hers. she's just another rebellious girl who found a cause that goes against her father's, in short she's just a chick with daddy problems. BORING I have yet to any other ones (other than Tali, who after having her as my romance arc, miranda's was a pretty big dissappointment) so I'll see how it plays out, but it doesnt look good for miranda.

No she isn't, her father was a huge supporter of Cerberus before she joined.  I can see why you think she is just a chick with daddy issues, you clearly didn't pay any attention to what was going on.

This is another thing I see on the boards all the time: having a strongly held opinion and acting superior about it and bringing up blatantly false information, or something that is true and then greatly exagerating it beyond all reasonable proportion.  They reduced the number of skills each character has in ME2 compared to ME1...ergo they removed all the depth, made it shallow, ruined it completely and made a shooter for all the stupid people who I will now mock.

Modifié par Valmy, 16 février 2010 - 03:45 .

[gutty47]

ComTrav wrote...
*snip* At the same time, she's worried about dropping her guard.

Miranda's ambivalence is true of any relationship--if this person knows what I'm REALLY like, will they still like me? The fact that she's supremely confident and capable, but shares her self-doubt with Shepard, is what really makes the relationship with me.

She takes a rather large gamble on Shepard in regards to her sister and when the gamble pays off her loyalty expands to include Shepard. Miranda is fiercely loyal if you earn her trust and this is why the paragon ending of ME2 is awesome.

[gutty47]

Valmy wrote...
Looking at the board then you would think BG2 was the worst thing ever and Bioware was going straight down hill.  It happens every game.

When it comes to internet forums, X is always better than X+1. Its almost a cliche in itself.

[Valmy]

gutty47 wrote...

ComTrav wrote...
*snip* At the same time, she's worried about dropping her guard.

Miranda's ambivalence is true of any relationship--if this person knows what I'm REALLY like, will they still like me? The fact that she's supremely confident and capable, but shares her self-doubt with Shepard, is what really makes the relationship with me.

She takes a rather large gamble on Shepard in regards to her sister and when the gamble pays off her loyalty expands to include Shepard. Miranda is fiercely loyal if you earn her trust and this is why the paragon ending of ME2 is awesome.

Yep.  Having her come to trust you and open up to you is a great thrill.  It is why I enjoyed this romance tremendously, it really led to alot of character developement.  You feel like you just gained a great friend, ally, and lover.

Which is why I think we started this really long thread wanting her back for ME3.

[westful]

Valmy wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

ComTrav wrote...
*snip* At the same time, she's worried about dropping her guard.

Miranda's ambivalence is true of any relationship--if this person knows what I'm REALLY like, will they still like me? The fact that she's supremely confident and capable, but shares her self-doubt with Shepard, is what really makes the relationship with me.

She takes a rather large gamble on Shepard in regards to her sister and when the gamble pays off her loyalty expands to include Shepard. Miranda is fiercely loyal if you earn her trust and this is why the paragon ending of ME2 is awesome.

Yep.  Having her come to trust you and open up to you is a great thrill.  It is why I enjoyed this romance tremendously, it really led to alot of character developement.  You feel like you just gained a great friend, ally, and lover.

Which is why I think we started this really long thread wanting her back for ME3.

I admit I have a soft spot for powerful ice queen characters as well... its probably the main reason why I romanced Miranda and I guess the main reason for Morrigan in DA:O

[Valmy]

Arijharn wrote...

Morogrem wrote...

after going through her romance arc I can say that she is the most boring romantic arc in the series, even more so than either of the 2 for the original (including ashley). hell the romantic arc in Jade empire was better than hers. she's just another rebellious girl who found a cause that goes against her father's, in short she's just a chick with daddy problems. BORING I have yet to any other ones (other than Tali, who after having her as my romance arc, miranda's was a pretty big dissappointment) so I'll see how it plays out, but it doesnt look good for miranda.

Obviously, I disagree with you and mainly on the 'daddy issue' part. Sure she has issues, but I think it was well told in regards to the standards she puts upon herself (and feels that everyone else does, including Cerberus). To me, I think her character is like a really expensive champagne glass, but with a minute crack running down it's length. She tries to escape her flaws by building walls around her to the extent that not even she can surmount anymore, until at least Shephard comes along and sledgehammers them down.

When i think about it (and I could be totally wrong) she strikes me as a character that is, as Wilson puts it, an 'Ice Queen.' She's told this so much that she accepts it, so when the person she resurrects from the dead turns out to be as good as all the stories about him indicate (lets face it, Shephard is larger than life, he's a genuine hero) and correctly guesses her flaws within lets say weeks of meeting her she is forced to confront her reality and personal flaws. Maybe she finds it liberating? She also finds that she keeps on looking at Shephard's ass (just like Bastilla Shan no doubt) so she's so confused about what she's feeling, she's attracted to our hero, but really afraid of acting on it because she finds that Shephard is exhilarating.

The area we do not really get to see is how she feels about love and relationships in general.  I mean the woman is 35 and so clearly must have some strong feelings on the matter.  It seems like all the great genius' in history always felt really lonely since they could never meet anybody on their level...I wonder if she felt something similar until Shepard came along.  Perhaps it was that sort of imbalance in the relationship that scared Jacob off....but were there others?  Eh probably most players do not want to hear somebody's life story.  Sharing past experiences from a character translates into "whining" for alot of players.

[Rathias0114]

To be honest, and maybe it is just me, but her being an ice queen never came to my mind.



I saw her as a professional - as a woman who was given a mission and told to "Do it."



I respected that - and over the course of the relationship, as I got to see more and more of the real Miranda, that is when I began to enjoy the character as much as I have.

[ComTrav]

Valmy wrote...

Which is why I think we started this really long thread wanting her back for ME3.

well, yeah...

Too bad ME3 will be a bit of a wait.

[Valmy]

westful wrote...
I admit I have a soft spot for powerful ice queen characters as well... its probably the main reason why I romanced Miranda and I guess the main reason for Morrigan in DA:O

I admit I didn't really get the Morrigan Romance/friendship.  You feel like you have this connection with her but it doesn't seem to matter in the end.  Morrigan either swallows her feelings and goes on to do her own thing.  It left me feeling rather sad about the whole thing...but to be fair she did warn you it couldn't work out in the end.

Or maybe I did get it after all now that I think about it.

Modifié par Valmy, 16 février 2010 - 03:58 .

[ComTrav]

Valmy wrote...

westful wrote...
I admit I have a soft spot for powerful ice queen characters as well... its probably the main reason why I romanced Miranda and I guess the main reason for Morrigan in DA:O

I admit I didn't really get the Morrigan Romance/friendship.  You feel like you have this connection with her but it doesn't seem to matter in the end.  Morrigan either swallows her feelings and goes on to do her own thing.  It left me feeling rather sad about the whole thing...but to be fair she did warn you it couldn't work out in the end.

Or maybe I did get it after all now that I think about it.

Eh, with everything about Morrigan I was like..."This sounds like a bad idea...but I'm too intrigued to say no!"

But Aggronor Aeducan was a bit of a playa. From the origin story where he had the option to sleep with both 'noble hunters', that dwarf was a big pimp. (Couldn't marry Anora, though, though she clearly wanted the beard.) My (male paragon) Shepard takes these things more seriously.

Miranda is my favorite romance-able character, but the set-up and DAO's arcs is better done. I suspect ME3 will give you the chance to expand and deepend the relationship--it's the last game, there's no reason to go through another talk/talk/talk/sexytime before final fight.

[Valmy]

ComTrav wrote...

Miranda is my favorite romance-able character,

Mine to out of all the romanceables in BG2, KOTOR, DAO, and of course the Mass Effect series.  She just hits all the notes with me.

[Brockololly]

Valmy wrote...

westful wrote...
I admit I have a soft spot for powerful ice queen characters as well... its probably the main reason why I romanced Miranda and I guess the main reason for Morrigan in DA:O

I admit I didn't really get the Morrigan Romance/friendship.  You feel like you have this connection with her but it doesn't seem to matter in the end.  Morrigan either swallows her feelings and goes on to do her own thing.  It left me feeling rather sad about the whole thing...but to be fair she did warn you it couldn't work out in the end.

Or maybe I did get it after all now that I think about it.

Ha- I liked both Morrigan and Miranda- funny thing is that prior to playing both DAO and ME2, based on the trailers and marketing I figured I would hate both of those 2 characters and yet I had my main character in DAO and ME2 end up romancing both of them.

Not to totally sidetrack the Miri thread, but one of the reasons Morrigan's romance was interesting I thought was that unlike in ME and ME2 where the relationship just culminates in sex, with Morrigan, the sex was really just the beginning.  I wish more Bioware games with a romance in it let you explore the character a bit deeper than just equating "sex=prize for paramour achievement."

On the same token, I wish Bioware let you develop friendships in ME2 with characters a bit more- it felt like all of the possible LI's shut down totally if you are not romancing them - evidence being Garrus and his calibrations or Jack telling you to "F*ck off!" when you try to talk with them after a while and not romancing them. I guess this is a point the ME2 devs could take from DAO.

[gutty47]

ComTrav wrote...
Miranda is my favorite romance-able character, but the set-up and DAO's arcs is better done. I suspect ME3 will give you the chance to expand and deepend the relationship--it's the last game, there's no reason to go through another talk/talk/talk/sexytime before final fight.

I agree with this paragraph.

I also went with Morrigan in DAO and my character is still looking for her... Seems to be a trend in this thread: we went for strong LIs.

[ComTrav]

Brockololly wrote...

Not to totally sidetrack the Miri thread, but one of the reasons Morrigan's romance was interesting I thought was that unlike in ME and ME2 where the relationship just culminates in sex, with Morrigan, the sex was really just the beginning.  I wish more Bioware games with a romance in it let you explore the character a bit deeper than just equating "sex=prize for paramour achievement."

On the same token, I wish Bioware let you develop friendships in ME2 with characters a bit more- it felt like all of the possible LI's shut down totally if you are not romancing them - evidence being Garrus and his calibrations or Jack telling you to "F*ck off!" when you try to talk with them after a while and not romancing them. I guess this is a point the ME2 devs could take from DAO.

I see both of these comments a lot, and I'm sure Bioware does too if they pay much attention to these forums.

Thane actually had a lot of dialogue for my male Shepard, which culminated in a touching scene where he said that Shepard was the only friend he'd made in the last ten years. But he's kind of the outlier.

[Valmy]

Brockololly wrote...
On the same token, I wish Bioware let you develop friendships in ME2 with characters a bit more- it felt like all of the possible LI's shut down totally if you are not romancing them - evidence being Garrus and his calibrations or Jack telling you to "F*ck off!" when you try to talk with them after a while and not romancing them. I guess this is a point the ME2 devs could take from DAO.

Bioware really needs to do that from now on.  It was great befriending the LIs in DAO and getting to know most of what you get when you romance them.  You shouldn't need to romance a character just to get to know them...though some deep dark things I suppose can be saved for love interests only.

[Valmy]

Brockololly wrote...
Ha- I liked both Morrigan and Miranda- funny thing is that prior to playing both DAO and ME2, based on the trailers and marketing I figured I would hate both of those 2 characters and yet I had my main character in DAO and ME2 end up romancing both of them.

Yeah both Miri and Morrigan were marketed as Ms. Fanservice.  Pity both characters deserved better...though Miranda faired a little better in the marketing.

[Brockololly]

Yeah I liked Thane's dialogue with my maleShep and I guess Jacob had the little bro-hug but I guess I would just go back to DAO and how even though my Grey Warden decided to romance Morrigan and basically dump Leliana, she didn't stop talking to me and viewed my PC as a friend.



But I guess this kind of gets into the more squad banter aspect of things too- You spend all of this time assembling this diverse crew but then they barely interact with each other ( outside of the loyalty arguments). The banter from DAO just added so much to the depth of the characters I thought, and judging by many of the comments on the forum, I would hope Bioware notices that too.

[Kabraxal]

gutty47 wrote...

ComTrav wrote...
Miranda is my favorite romance-able character, but the set-up and DAO's arcs is better done. I suspect ME3 will give you the chance to expand and deepend the relationship--it's the last game, there's no reason to go through another talk/talk/talk/sexytime before final fight.

I agree with this paragraph.

I also went with Morrigan in DAO and my character is still looking for her... Seems to be a trend in this thread: we went for strong LIs.

DA didn't have a weak romance though.  All of them were touching and deep in their own ways.  My favourite is Leliana though, followed by Morrigan.  While Morrigan obviously correlates to Miri in many respects, the fact that there is no resolution puts a hamper on it.  There are other issues (her physicalism is odd in a world with magic and miracles), but I do like her.  However, the fiery spiritualist fit me perfectly... not my character, but me.  She has her beliefs, she allows others their beliefs, and she doesn't give a damn about what other people say about the situation.  Her line about "knowing in her heart" was something I hadn't heard anyone else say period, let alone a game character.  It was refreshing.

As for ME3... I don't see any new romances.  Maybe some hinted ones from ME1 and ME2 opening up, but no brand spanking new ones.  Most of the romance subplots should be tied into the existing romance lines.  Hopefully, since playing after ME2 does hint at things, it seems that relationships should be much like DA.  There will be dialogue and such, but one can invite them up for some smoochie time.  Of course I'd probably never finish the game seeing as how I'd either be cuddling with Ash or Miri all the time...

[Brockololly]

Valmy wrote...

Yeah both Miri and Morrigan were marketed as Ms. Fanservice.  Pity both characters deserved better...though Miranda faired a little better in the marketing.

Thats one thing I've kind of come to expect with some of Bioware's marketing- the marketing can't really do a good job at portraying certain characters beyond stereotypes. With DAO and even ME2, I almost got less interested in the games the more I saw of them.

DAO's marketing wasn't great, especially with Morrigan seeming like a pair of boobs the whole time and the Marilyn Manson metal trailers..... ME2 was far better though- that launch trailer alone was 100 different kinds of epic.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[ComTrav]

Kabraxal wrote...

As for ME3... I don't see any new romances.  Maybe some hinted ones from ME1 and ME2 opening up, but no brand spanking new ones.  Most of the romance subplots should be tied into the existing romance lines.  Hopefully, since playing after ME2 does hint at things, it seems that relationships should be much like DA.  There will be dialogue and such, but one can invite them up for some smoochie time.  Of course I'd probably never finish the game seeing as how I'd either be cuddling with Ash or Miri all the time...

Depends a lot on how many new characters Bioware adds, if any.

But it would make sense if, for example, Liara were around and romance-able for a 'fresh' ME3 Shepard.

(Personally, I don't think they went to all the trouble to face-scan Yvonne to shove Miranda aside for New ME3Girl.)

And there are some people who like to RP their Shepards like Blasto, and have a girl in every port.

[firecleaner]

Brockololly wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Yeah both Miri and Morrigan were marketed as Ms. Fanservice.  Pity both characters deserved better...though Miranda faired a little better in the marketing.

Thats one thing I've kind of come to expect with some of Bioware's marketing- the marketing can't really do a good job at portraying certain characters beyond stereotypes. With DAO and even ME2, I almost got less interested in the games the more I saw of them.

DAO's marketing wasn't great, especially with Morrigan seeming like a pair of boobs the whole time and the Marilyn Manson metal trailers..... ME2 was far better though- that launch trailer alone was 100 different kinds of epic.

The Mass Effect 2 launch trailer is so good! Its one of my favorite trailers of all time...  I love the Mass Effect 1 trailer when Sovrigien goes I am the vanguard of your destruction.