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Warming to Miranda (Support thread)


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#6851
Arijharn

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WARNING LONG POST (OR IT JUST FEELS IT AS I'M TYPING THIS)

So, I just walked to the local shops to get the paper in extremely humid conditions, and to get my mind off the heat (humidity isn't really heat I guess, but you know what I mean) I thought of how awesome it would be to add a conflict of interest with the Miranda LI for ME3. Bare with me, this is sorta fanfiction rant but I would totally put it in the game if I was somehow magically hired to be a writer.

Anyway, lets assume these things based on what we saw/heard in ME2.
1) Oriana, for a genetic twin, looks nothing like Miranda (possible exception to the lips, but I think their eyeline and even jaw is different but anyway).
2) Miranda's father is stupidly wealthy (as in, I do believe he was called the wealthiest human, meaning he is quite possibly one of the wealthiest people in the galaxy considering the burgeoning weight of the alliance dollar/credit). To paraphrase Sean Bean from Goldeneye; he has more money than God.
3) Miranda's father is quite secretive and is definitely pro-human (even if his financial support with Cerberus has been withdrawn).

So, here's what I'd do (skipping to the more important parts):
Setting the Scene
With little more than token support from the Council (to the point of being rude to nigh hostility, or even Shephard dismissing them with a "Screw You" response) and lack of faith in Alliance command, Shephard is forced to take ever more unorthodox attempts to prepare the galaxy to meet the eventual Reaper invasion. In short, for lack of available options (either Cerberus hasn't had enough time to fully investigate the Collector Base, or Shephard destroyed it) Cerberus and the Illusive Man can not be dependant upon for support and the potential species are illplaced to pre-emptively support any of Shephard's proposals for any number of reasons. Shephard is, even at his success at the Collector Base, at a loss to what he can do... after all that he has done, for the crap he's taken and for all the bad guys he has ended and seeming miracles he has performed, he is still just one man, he does not have intelligence (as in an agency :P to support him, rather than IQ) he is alone and isolated and for all his ability, he realises he can not do it with the forces he has. He is up the creek without a paddle, as an Australian saying goes (basically it means he's out of luck and needs help).

Lo and behold, an olive branch is offered by none other than the Illusive Man. The Illusive Man, despite his feelings on Shephard, prepares to support him by suggesting a meeting to a Mr. X who just happens to be Miranda's daddy. Miranda is obviously absolutely appalled, but she agrees to it when she becomes aware (quite quickly) that despite her personal feelings, they are running out of options, and Mr. X is best positioned to help remedy this. To cut some of the story short, they arrive at Mr. X's luxurious mansion on Earth (considering Yvonne's own Australian heritage, it probably should be in Australia, also considering the burgeoning population of the World and thus Australia, the mansion should probably be in a massive Megatropolis that has expanded to encompasse Melbourne, Sydney and Canberra (for those of you who aren't in the know, Canberra is Australia's national capital) because this is likely where the vast majority of Australian's live).

Mr. X
Unlike what Miranda implies, Mr. X isn't totally a monster. He should be portrayed as someone who is polite, considerate and even courteous (although not excessively polite like the (impossible) Hanar) but also as someone with a slight temper as in a person who is very much used to getting what he wants. Basically the idea is this; Miranda's perceptions of him are biased and maybe even clouded by the fact that she ran away from him when she was a lot younger (at least 18-19 years, since Oriana was a baby) and Mr. X is also quite smart.

Mr. X, despite Miranda's understandable anxiety is perfectly willing to (re)supply the Normandy SR-2 (it turns out he was one of the major sponsors of the SR-1 concept in the first place, and has his own sizeable shipbuilding business, probably operating in a joint monopoly with Cerberus' own front company) if only they'd be willing to tell him where Oriana is. Hence the quandary.

Mr. X is someone who wholly believes in the threat of the Reapers, but he also wholly believes that they (as in, humanity and it's allies) will be successful, and doesn't agree with the concept of selfless sacrifice (since what's the point of saving the galaxy if they don't plan after it). He offers too, with minimal expense to the System's Alliance, his principal client to upgrade the weapon batteries of all Alliance warships currently in production or in retrofit with duplicates/modification of the Thanix weapon systems. This will be at no expense to Shephard or his crew other than the above needed information, and a televised newscast featuring Shephard's endorsement of the idea.

Mr. X and the Illusive Man ( THE collusion)
Contrary to Miranda's belief, Mr. X did not withdraw financial support from Cerberus after Miranda's 'defection' (maybe it was simple curiousity to what Miranda's accomplishments for Cerberus could be) and is actually one of Cerberus' primary financial backers throughout its entire existence. Mr. X doesn't 'officially' have operational oversight on Cerberus' activities but he no doubt can make his feelings known to Cerberus' command structure, notably the Illusive Man.

Mr. X's financial backing largely made it possible for Cerberus to even attempt the Lazarus Project (and not bankrupt them) and the Normandy SR-2 production simultaneously, donating another 300% to the coffers to ensure that Cerberus' other projects continue on schedule. If Shephard decided against Illusive Man's agenda and sacrificed the base, then Mr. X makes it clear that he really would pull financial support if the Illusive Man attempts to sabotage Shephard's campaign against the Reapers (Illusive Man would likely argue that he wouldn't anyway, he'd just be more careful around him: 'too many eggs in one basket.')

Oriana/Miranda and Mr. X
First of all, Oriana is not Miranda's genetic twin. She is a partial genetic engineering concept performed in utero. The reason why Miranda thinks this is due to genetic screening information being tampering performed at Mr. X's request (He'd likely argue with Miranda that "You're biggest flaw to your otherwise perfection Miranda my dear, is that you think other people aren't as smart [as you]"). Mr. X's motivations are likely to A) See how far Miranda can be pushed, she was afterall, to be his 'dynasty.' B) He was somewhat suspicious of Miranda's behaviour up to this point anyway.

Oriana was likely conceived under an illicit affair with one of his employee's (who he loved, and this is important as this is a 'conflict of interest'), likely a weapon/ship designer (possibly of the Normandy itself). The idea is however that maybe this woman turned out to be dying and in desperation (and curiousity?) he performed (or more to the point, allowed) medical procedures on her to extend her life. These were partially successful. Oriana was genetically engineered and is healthier and... superior to regular humans as Miranda, but her Y chromosomes were largely taken from the mother herself. This is plausible because Mr. X always was a 'distance' father, and it would be understandable if he was mostly away on business. The mother survived the birth of her baby due to these medical accomplishments.

As we know, Oriana was 'kidnapped' by Miranda at her escape leaving an emotionally shattered Mr. X to pick up the pieces with his now wife (he's super rich, he is likely to believe he can walk over anyone in some way). As Mr. X might say to Miranda: "I used to think that a child was a mere object. Something to be examined and possibly thrown away if it proved ultimately useless. Cold? In hindsight... absolutely, we did not have a child growing inside us, we have no intrinsic nurture capability Miranda. I thought love for a child was based on the love for their mother and the need to be complete with her. I can tell you now Miranda, that as soon as I saw her born, all those preconceptions shattered in in the wail of her tears. Here was someone I could have a fresh start with, to help grow and yes, to be complete with the woman I loved. I thought the old saying that someone could 'die from grief' to be nothing more than an old adage, a pathetic plotpoint from a Hollywood movie entirely too romantic, and completely unrealistic. Oriana's kidnapping broke her mothers heart, I watched helplessly and impotently as the one woman I ever loved wither and die from grief as surely as the cancer in her bowels consumed her." - it should be clear here that in the conversation that Mr. X's usually cool exterior is cracking under his recalled emotion.

Why an illicit affair? To somewhat mirror Shephard and Miranda's own 'forbidden love, in an impossible circumstance.'

The Shephard/Mr. X Broadcast and it's importance:
The political weight of the savior of the Citadel (and his hushed return) combined with the political and military/industrial heavyweight of Mr. X is absolutely staggering (remember, Mr. X is fabulously, even opulently rich).

Can you imagine the political rammifications if such an innocuous quote like this slips into the newsfeeds?
"I'm here with Cmdr. Shephard, flush from his successes from the Reaper... " (turning to his press officer) I'm sorry, the geth... " ('conferring' with his press officer again and barely audibly (but still easily picked up by video recorders:)) "they are still officially calling it a geth invasion right?"

If delievered well enough, it wouldn't make Mr. X sound like an idiot, but make the Citadel Council/Systems Alliance as organizations with something to hide, remember Commander Shephard is a hero to many (no matter what he did at the end of ME1)

The Quandary:
Simply put, whether to reveal Oriana's last known position of Illium to Mr. X. As to 'why doesn't Illusive Man just reveal it?' perhaps he doesn't know, maybe Miranda managed to sneak one around him? Perhaps he doesn't actually know since it isn't one of his main operations or perhaps Cerberus sorta 'outsourced it' (This might explain Lanteia, who is obviously NOT human yet happily is referred to as someone Miranda can implicitly trust)

In terms of prepardness against the Reapers and his wiping off most of the costs to the alliance armada, it's a staggeringly good deal. If Shephard argues the point: "There are greater things at stake than Oriana's location" I think it could be safe to assume that Mr. X could argue that same point as vehemently in his defense "Exactly, just for Oriana's location! That is cheap as chips in comparison to my expense, love is blinding you just as it blinded me, don't make the same mistake!" Basically, is the safety of Oriana's sanctuary as important than the massive technological upgrade of Thanix type weapon systems (or Cyclonic Barrier Technology). For the sake of emotionally compelling storytelling (as I see it) it should offer potentially fuzzy conditions, although deciding against Miranda's obvious feelings shouldn't totally destroy the LI (but undoubtedly break it's hold somewhat, but with the provision that it could definitely be made stronger)

Subtle rammifications beyond the obvious to consider:
1) 
not passing the information to Mr. X could result in Oriana and her 'family' dying in a Reaper attack... shattering Miranda.
2) Passing the information to Mr. X could result in Oriana and her family dying in a Reaper attack.... shattering Miranda. This isn't a guaranteed response to either decision, but more to muddy the waters. Personally I'd prefer it as a solution to number 1.

Anyway, I think I've typed enough, but that's the general idea, and I'm interested in other peoples takes on it.

#6852
Guest_antilles333_*

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That is totally a long post! But very interesting nonetheless.

#6853
Arijharn

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antilles333 wrote...

That is totally a long post! But very interesting nonetheless.


As long as you read it! ^_^

#6854
firecleaner

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This is very well thought out and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us...

What you have written is very believable and would definitely create a hard choice for the character to deal with. If I understand correctly you have to choose between Miranda wishes and some upgrades that could effect the outcome of the war. Your in a pickle to say the least.

Fan-fic it, I need some good Mass Effect fan-fics to hold me till some real dlc comes out. :):):)

Patiently waits for Ieldra our someone else to break this down...

Modifié par firecleaner, 17 février 2010 - 05:07 .


#6855
Breakdown Boy

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Sorry Arjiharn, you obviously have a very creative mind, if ME3 was going to be adpated into a soap opera instead of a space opera then you would be striking gold right now. A bit too dramatic. On other hand.....Maranda's dad being brought in on a lesser side story could work. Are you involved in writing at all?



I am not that creative, so I leave it to the dev's to do that part.

#6856
Rathias0114

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That... was a very interesting idea, Ari.



Well-written, too - and to be honest, you could be right. Who else is there now to back Shepard in his mission to stop the Reapers? Unless that datapad we saw Shepard holding in the finale was the proof he needed for the Council - then he's still left alone.



Council won't trust him because he worked for Cerberus.

Cerberus won't trust him because he, in the end, betrayed them.



But.. what if we're not giving The Illusive Man the benefit of the doubt? Why are we automatically assuming he's going to plot for revenge?



He spent BILLIONS of credits in trying to bring back Shepard to ensure humanity's survival against the Reaper threat. Yes, he lost what could've possibly been the biggest advantage they would've had, but is he really willing to destroy the man he put so much money into - and firmly believes is the only one who can save them?



You can't make money if you're dead.



Regarding Miranda's father;



I thought Miranda confirmed that Oriana was created the same way she was - therefore, wouldn't the whole deal with another woman be null? It was an interesting concept - well written - and it humanized the mysterious father figure... but I don't think that is what we are looking at.



After Miranda's loyalty mission, I don't think she would ever give up her sister. Even for a woman who understands what is at stake - I don't think she could do it. Oriana herself would have to, that's the only reason I could see Miranda justifying giving him her location.



I think what we are looking at when we see Miranda's father is a man who is now desperate. I think his profits are faltering, to be honest. He must've dropped billions of credits into funding the research to create both Oriana and Miranda - and I think the only way he could finally find himself back in the black is to bring one of them back in.



If he's incredibly rich, why go through so much trouble of hiring mercenaries and risk failure in the mission when he could just breed version 3.0? I think losing both Oriana and Miranda bankrupt'd him - that is why he is so desperate to get one of them back.



Also - I don't think Miranda was wrong about her father. She was given the best education money could buy - and if our calculations are right, ran away from her father in her late-teens/early twenties. Woman mature faster than men - and since she IS genetically-enchanced, she could've reached that maturity level at a much sooner age than when she ran away. I think her decision was fueled by both logic and emotion.



We'll see - and I'm anxious to do such. I'm curious if you're right about her father - or if you're wrong. Those were very valid points that you brought up and I'm curious to see how Miranda's backstory unfolds.








#6857
ComTrav

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@ Arijharn (not going to quote your wall of text to turn it into an EVEN bigger wall of text):



(Although I'll note 'up the creek without a paddle' is pretty common saying in the US, too.)



Any visit to earth is awesome. And Miranda is one of the few ME characters IIRC who was born on Earth. (Which is strange, because Earth still has billions of people, and I've never seen reference to a colony with more then a couple millions.)



And I DO like the introduction of a 'business magnate' character/villain. They really hit the 'future megacorporations' angle of the ME universe hard in ME1 with Feros and Noveria, but that's a thread that's not as strong in ME3. Maybe Mr. X is head of one of the named manufacturers? And it makes sense to have someone be 'the money behind Cerberus'. Building a top-of-the-line ship is expensive, which is why it makes sense that he is in the shipbuilding business.



And Miranda confronting her father is inevitably a powerful scene that we'll hopefully get the chance to see. I like the way you've written it here, where it's clear that he is quite sure he's done wrong by Miranda and was hoping to 'get it right' by Oriana (complete with an actual mother.) And the line about Miranda not thinking anyone is as smart as she is is good, too. Of ME characters, Miranda most closely resembles something out of Greek myth, with larger then life abilities and capacities, and in those myths, hubris is a pretty common flaw.



I feel like TiM wouldn't reveal Oriana's position to Mr. X; TiM is playing his own game. He might use Oriana to get to Miranda directly, but he won't use it to get to her father. (And really, for all this talk, what's he going to do? "Kill Shepard or I blow Oriana's brains out" doesn't strike me as TiM's style...)



I do like that you've framed a your-lover-or-the-galaxy dilemma, here, without it being overly clunky. If this were a GAME DESIGN dilemma, I could see a Paragon/Renegade option to convince Miranda that Mr. X has reformed, and protecting Oriana from the threat of the reapers is really the best option. (Or to convince Mr. X that he REALLY IS being petty.)



It's also a little problematic because no one's considering what Oriana might want--at 19, she might have some ideas of her own.



This really has the most emotional weight if Miranda is your LI. It'll be nice to have to force Shepard to make choices between his friends and close relationships vs. preparing for the Reaper threat. (...sort of like in DAO, lol.) It's close to the dilemma in Tali's loyalty mission (if it were OBVIOUS that giving the Geth data to the Quarians would benefit humanity.)

#6858
Arijharn

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firecleaner wrote...

This is very well thought out and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us...

What you have written is very believable and would definitely create a hard choice for the character to deal with. If I understand correctly you have to choose between Miranda wishes and some upgrades that could effect the outcome of the war. Your in a pickle to say the least.

Fan-fic it, I need some good Mass Effect fan-fics to hold me till some real dlc comes out. :):):)

Patiently waits for Ieldra our someone else to break this down...


I'm more of a macro level thinker. I like the idea of huge conspiracies (and can plan them by giving them motivations and such) but I don't think I'm that good at the nitty gritty.

One of the other details I forgot to type in (but I thought about) is a possible connection with Liara and Mr. X. Like Cerberus he doesn't hate alien species, he just doesn't believe their future is necessarily humanity's.

When I think of Mr. X's mansion I think of an opulent but slightly forboding place (think the parliament building of Romania, it was originally a tyrants residence). In it he has a vast Prothean collection that would put museums to shame, but only a very small fraction is ever on display.

He dismisses the concept of museums in a way, he argues that "they are pointless places, somewhere for the teeming masses to mock adore precious artifacts of days gone by. Interesting for them to look at, but little beyond that." And he is the one who financially supported Liara's exploration of Therum? (I just forgot the name of the planet she was discovered on)

#6859
firecleaner

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Arijharn wrote...

firecleaner wrote...

This is very well thought out and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us...

What you have written is very believable and would definitely create a hard choice for the character to deal with. If I understand correctly you have to choose between Miranda wishes and some upgrades that could effect the outcome of the war. Your in a pickle to say the least.

Fan-fic it, I need some good Mass Effect fan-fics to hold me till some real dlc comes out. :):):)

Patiently waits for Ieldra our someone else to break this down...


I'm more of a macro level thinker. I like the idea of huge conspiracies (and can plan them by giving them motivations and such) but I don't think I'm that good at the nitty gritty.

One of the other details I forgot to type in (but I thought about) is a possible connection with Liara and Mr. X. Like Cerberus he doesn't hate alien species, he just doesn't believe their future is necessarily humanity's.

When I think of Mr. X's mansion I think of an opulent but slightly forboding place (think the parliament building of Romania, it was originally a tyrants residence). In it he has a vast Prothean collection that would put museums to shame, but only a very small fraction is ever on display.

He dismisses the concept of museums in a way, he argues that "they are pointless places, somewhere for the teeming masses to mock adore precious artifacts of days gone by. Interesting for them to look at, but little beyond that." And he is the one who financially supported Liara's exploration of Therum? (I just forgot the name of the planet she was discovered on)


Have you've ever seen the movie where people cant have children any more. If you have the main character goes to this mansion where his friend is saving all this art work. Thats the first thing that comes to mind when I read your post.

EDIT: Children of Men is the name of the movie

Modifié par firecleaner, 17 février 2010 - 05:38 .


#6860
ComTrav

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Children of Men, with Clive Owen, Firecleaner, iirc.

#6861
firecleaner

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ComTrav wrote...

Children of Men, with Clive Owen, Firecleaner, iirc.


Yep, thats the movie, have you seen it?

EDIT: the Tali thread is over 1000....

Modifié par firecleaner, 17 février 2010 - 05:43 .


#6862
ComTrav

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Yeah. (Probably wouldn't have been able to guess what you were talking about if I hadn't.)

#6863
ComTrav

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Yup, Tali Thread > 1000 pages. That's ****ing epic. I did manage to ninja in on page 1000.

#6864
Titan98RG

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firecleaner wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

firecleaner wrote...

This is very well thought out and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us...

What you have written is very believable and would definitely create a hard choice for the character to deal with. If I understand correctly you have to choose between Miranda wishes and some upgrades that could effect the outcome of the war. Your in a pickle to say the least.

Fan-fic it, I need some good Mass Effect fan-fics to hold me till some real dlc comes out. :):):)

Patiently waits for Ieldra our someone else to break this down...


I'm more of a macro level thinker. I like the idea of huge conspiracies (and can plan them by giving them motivations and such) but I don't think I'm that good at the nitty gritty.

One of the other details I forgot to type in (but I thought about) is a possible connection with Liara and Mr. X. Like Cerberus he doesn't hate alien species, he just doesn't believe their future is necessarily humanity's.

When I think of Mr. X's mansion I think of an opulent but slightly forboding place (think the parliament building of Romania, it was originally a tyrants residence). In it he has a vast Prothean collection that would put museums to shame, but only a very small fraction is ever on display.

He dismisses the concept of museums in a way, he argues that "they are pointless places, somewhere for the teeming masses to mock adore precious artifacts of days gone by. Interesting for them to look at, but little beyond that." And he is the one who financially supported Liara's exploration of Therum? (I just forgot the name of the planet she was discovered on)


Have you've ever seen the movie where people cant have children any more. If you have the main character goes to this mansion where his friend is saving all this art work. Thats the first thing that comes to mind when I read your post.

EDIT: Children of Men is the name of the movie


And that movie freakin' rocks.

#6865
firecleaner

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ComTrav wrote...

Yup, Tali Thread > 1000 pages. That's ****ing epic. I did manage to ninja in on page 1000.


Com, your a master ninja... do you know why its growing so fast it seems every other thread has slowed down.

#6866
Breakdown Boy

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I believe their will be two main story paths that will influence the game in different ways. These paths are based on 2 key decisions in both ME1&2.



1. A: Save the council - Result - Unity in council space (humans included in council) at cost of weakining the 5th fleet but keep the biggest ship the dreadnaught Destiny Accension in tact, as well as keep the Asari involved in council space security.



B: Do not save the council - Result - Disunity in council space as humans seen as selfish usurpers who use any chance to progess. Destiny Ascention destroid but 5th fleet not as weakened as option A.



2. A: Destroy Collector station - Result - Stop possible miss use by Cerberus of Reaper tech - Loose possible opportunity to use Reaper Tech.



B: Keep Collector station - Result - Who knows?



I believe that these two choices will effect the main plot of the story, with smaller choices making the end result different to smaller degrees. E.g. Saving Rachni (allies), keeping cure for Krogan genophage, Legion loyalty (converting ot destroying Heritics), possible allies in Aria, Clan Urgnot (Wrex alive)......



So basically making the right paragon decisions (some will have no influence on future events) will result in more allies in the end battle!

#6867
ComTrav

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firecleaner wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

Yup, Tali Thread > 1000 pages. That's ****ing epic. I did manage to ninja in on page 1000.


Com, your a master ninja... do you know why its growing so fast it seems every other thread has slowed down.


Well, obviously around page 1000 there was a big spike of ZOMG 1000 PAGES posts. 

Overall, though, I think they just have a ton of people posting.

#6868
ComTrav

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Breakdown Boy wrote...

I believe their will be two main story paths that will influence the game in different ways. These paths are based on 2 key decisions in both ME1&2.

1. A: Save the council - Result - Unity in council space (humans included in council) at cost of weakining the 5th fleet but keep the biggest ship the dreadnaught Destiny Accension in tact, as well as keep the Asari involved in council space security.

B: Do not save the council - Result - Disunity in council space as humans seen as selfish usurpers who use any chance to progess. Destiny Ascention destroid but 5th fleet not as weakened as option A.

2. A: Destroy Collector station - Result - Stop possible miss use by Cerberus of Reaper tech - Loose possible opportunity to use Reaper Tech.

B: Keep Collector station - Result - Who knows?

I believe that these two choices will effect the main plot of the story, with smaller choices making the end result different to smaller degrees. E.g. Saving Rachni (allies), keeping cure for Krogan genophage, Legion loyalty (converting ot destroying Heritics), possible allies in Aria, Clan Urgnot (Wrex alive)......


So basically making the right paragon decisions (some will have no influence on future events) will result in more allies in the end battle!


Wondering if anyone is doing a mostly-Paragon game where they end up saving the base, that would seem to maximize your possible allies.

And there seems to be a 'struggle for Omega' sub-plot set-up in ME2. (Aria/Matriarch/Ish.)

#6869
Ajspeed

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Miranda can save me with biotics and a tight outfit anyday

#6870
Arijharn

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I'll quote your post ComTrav because it contains the bulk of the responses to my brainstorm, as it were.

ComTrav wrote...

@ Arijharn (not going to quote your wall of text to turn it into an EVEN bigger wall of text):

(Although I'll note 'up the creek without a paddle' is pretty common saying in the US, too.)

Any visit to earth is awesome. And Miranda is one of the few ME characters IIRC who was born on Earth. (Which is strange, because Earth still has billions of people, and I've never seen reference to a colony with more then a couple millions.)

Exactly, I'm not sure if this was mentioned in game but I seem to recall that Miranda was Earth born as well, and the reason why there is such a population disparity between Earth and it's colonies is because moving people/supplies en masse is still apparently prohibitively expensive. (Mass Effect writer Chris L'etoille mentioned this, but as of this moment I'm unable to find the source, so you'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt atm)

EDIT: Here's the post: http://stormwaltz.ga...-upon-the-stars


ComTrav wrote...
And I DO like the introduction of a 'business magnate' character/villain. They really hit the 'future megacorporations' angle of the ME universe hard in ME1 with Feros and Noveria, but that's a thread that's not as strong in ME3. Maybe Mr. X is head of one of the named manufacturers? And it makes sense to have someone be 'the money behind Cerberus'. Building a top-of-the-line ship is expensive, which is why it makes sense that he is in the shipbuilding business.

I like to think that the shipbuilding business is only one aspect of his fortune. Cerberus in itself has a front company in the shipbuilding business that is Cord-Hislop Aerospace. I struck upon the idea of a 'joint monopoly' because in commercialism states like ours I think it's a real fear of a company that is so large as to be called a monopoly in the first place, let alone one that is actually one in secretly one as well. It gives me the 'chills' in the event that Cord Hislop and Mr.X's might be involved in such shady schemes as price fixing for example.

ComTrav wrote...
And Miranda confronting her father is inevitably a powerful scene that we'll hopefully get the chance to see. I like the way you've written it here, where it's clear that he is quite sure he's done wrong by Miranda and was hoping to 'get it right' by Oriana (complete with an actual mother.) And the line about Miranda not thinking anyone is as smart as she is is good, too. Of ME characters, Miranda most closely resembles something out of Greek myth, with larger then life abilities and capacities, and in those myths, hubris is a pretty common flaw.

Worse, I think Mr. X just plain doesn't care about Miranda in the way she still desperately wants his approval (she claims to be free, but she's constantly talking about him). I think Oriana is more like the one that made Mr. X wake up however.
Oriana and Miranda are still sisters, they are both genetically engineered, but Oriana is more 'natural' in that she wasn't so much custom designed like Miranda, but tweaked.

ComTrav wrote...
I feel like TiM wouldn't reveal Oriana's position to Mr. X; TiM is playing his own game. He might use Oriana to get to Miranda directly, but he won't use it to get to her father. (And really, for all this talk, what's he going to do? "Kill Shepard or I blow Oriana's brains out" doesn't strike me as TiM's style...)

I agree, TIM is playing his own game, Mr. X is largely playing his own game too. I doubt TIM would seriously consider killing Shephard even if Shephard blew up the base in your playthrough simply because Shephard is still startingly effective against the Reapers.

I do however, believe in '******-for-tat' at least where Mr. X and the Illusive Man are concerned anyway.

ComTrav wrote...
I do like that you've framed a your-lover-or-the-galaxy dilemma, here, without it being overly clunky. If this were a GAME DESIGN dilemma, I could see a Paragon/Renegade option to convince Miranda that Mr. X has reformed, and protecting Oriana from the threat of the reapers is really the best option. (Or to convince Mr. X that he REALLY IS being petty.)


I don't believe the answer is cut-n-dried either. I don't want it to be like: Choose the galaxy and totally loose miranda or vice versa. I also don't want it to be plain sailing with your LI upon your ME2 import either. I want consequences, but I don't want insurmountable consequences!

ComTrav wrote...
It's also a little problematic because no one's considering what Oriana might want--at 19, she might have some ideas of her own.

You noticed that did you? Good! I was hoping someone wouldn't miss the fact that I've totally ignored Oriana's own opinions, but this is exactly what both Miranda and Mr.X have done in ME2 anyway. I'd like this to play out too (good confrontation scene!) but I admit I know so little about her really I wouldn't know what would be realistic of her or not.

ComTrav wrote...
This really has the most emotional weight if Miranda is your LI. It'll be nice to have to force Shepard to make choices between his friends and close relationships vs. preparing for the Reaper threat. (...sort of like in DAO, lol.) It's close to the dilemma in Tali's loyalty mission (if it were OBVIOUS that giving the Geth data to the Quarians would benefit humanity.)

The point is, it's not an impossible plot point if Miranda was just your party member either. I've written it as a LI though because we all love Miranda specifically in this thread (so it was safe).

As for the comments about it being a space opera as opposed to a soap opera (or words to that extent) I somewhat agree, but I think this has potentially to actually be an intelligent and morally ambiguous decision someone would face with the stakes being as what they are, as opposed to the classic 'does he love me? Does he not?'

Modifié par Arijharn, 17 février 2010 - 06:20 .


#6871
Arijharn

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ComTrav wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

I believe their will be two main story paths that will influence the game in different ways. These paths are based on 2 key decisions in both ME1&2.

1. A: Save the council - Result - Unity in council space (humans included in council) at cost of weakining the 5th fleet but keep the biggest ship the dreadnaught Destiny Accension in tact, as well as keep the Asari involved in council space security.

B: Do not save the council - Result - Disunity in council space as humans seen as selfish usurpers who use any chance to progess. Destiny Ascention destroid but 5th fleet not as weakened as option A.

2. A: Destroy Collector station - Result - Stop possible miss use by Cerberus of Reaper tech - Loose possible opportunity to use Reaper Tech.

B: Keep Collector station - Result - Who knows?

I believe that these two choices will effect the main plot of the story, with smaller choices making the end result different to smaller degrees. E.g. Saving Rachni (allies), keeping cure for Krogan genophage, Legion loyalty (converting ot destroying Heritics), possible allies in Aria, Clan Urgnot (Wrex alive)......


So basically making the right paragon decisions (some will have no influence on future events) will result in more allies in the end battle!


Wondering if anyone is doing a mostly-Paragon game where they end up saving the base, that would seem to maximize your possible allies.

And there seems to be a 'struggle for Omega' sub-plot set-up in ME2. (Aria/Matriarch/Ish.)


I actually did this on my last Infiltrator play through, paragon as I could realistically be (without being lawfully stupid I think) but I saved the base at the end.

In a nutshell I think the two macro decisions would be
Paragon - united species standing against the Reaper incursion, likely with high losses inflicted
Renegade - humanity standing alone (or with limited support) but with highly advanced weaponry, likely with low losses inflicted.

EDIT: When I say inflicted, I actually mean 'suffered'...

EDIT2: I have seen Children of Men, but I didn't think about it when I wrote my idea down heh.

Modifié par Arijharn, 17 février 2010 - 06:12 .


#6872
ComTrav

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Miranda's earthly origins are mentioned here:

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Miranda



I think it's strange we don't run into more people from Earth. (But then again, if you're traveling in space and among the colonies, won't most people be spacers and colonists?)



And it is a good point that both Miranda and her father ignore Oriana's wishes in ME2, though Oriana's email seems to suggest she agrees with Miranda's choice. (But if Liara can become an info broker who threatens people with death commandos between two games, Oriana can certainly change her mind.)



And I fundamentally agree with your assessment about TiM. He's not coming after Shepard. He's maybe a little alarmed he can't control Shepard, and he's certainly worried he's absconded with a hugely expensive ship and some of his top operatives. But he brought back Shepard to fight the reapers, and even if you leave Cerberus, that's what Shepard will be doing.



It's also easy to see a monopoly (in Alliance space anyway) emerging in something like ship construction. (Commercial aircraft construction IRL is, after all, dominated by only two companies.)



If Miranda is not your LI, it really hinges on what you think Mr. X will do with Oriana. If you're convinced it's 'not so bad', you'll probably fork her over. If you're convinced it'll be pretty terrible, this is one of those how-much-is-one-life worth dilemmas.

#6873
Breakdown Boy

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I realy don't see a long term success story if you play renegade on key plot points, as they lead to distrust and xenaphobia because of the pro-human angle of many of the renegade choices. So even if you defeat the reapers, at what cost?



I can't picture Sheapard in any other way than as a Paragon. Shepard must be the hero, the ultimate hero not some @ss that get's the job done in an underhanded way.



I beleive a Paragon path will lead to victory over the reapers and council space more united than ever before! Renegade will also do beat the reapers but will most likely leave a great cost and aftermath to deal with.



Don't get me wrong, people will die and this time I think it will be hard wired into the script like Kaiden/Ashly!

#6874
gutty47

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I like the cut of your jib Arijharn. Your post has got me thinking about Miranda's father or Mr. X as more than just a possible side mission for ME3. Probably easiest if I just write a list of what I'm thinking...

Mr X's Mansion
The Romanian parliament building doesn't seem to fit the style of what his mission should be. It gives off too much Soviet utilitarian than style that I would associate with richest human. Unless you are drawing attention to its stature as one of the largest buildings. As a side note, I would think that the Australian eastern coast megalopolis would also likely include Brisbane.

Mr. X for ME3
Your idea of Mr. X being integral to ME3 has hit a chord with me because he is one of the few characters that we know that could support Shepard and his merry gang of squaddies. What really has me thinking that its a possibility is the fact that the story could work without Miranda. Mr. X could be a real pain in the ass if you let Miranda die in ME2 but overall the plot wouldn't have to drastically change. You could still get a side mission involving Orianna.

I was going to write more but the ninjas between when I started writing and when I hit post have already pointed out the other things that needed pointing out.

#6875
ComTrav

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Breakdown Boy wrote...

I realy don't see a long term success story if you play renegade on key plot points, as they lead to distrust and xenaphobia because of the pro-human angle of many of the renegade choices. So even if you defeat the reapers, at what cost?

I can't picture Sheapard in any other way than as a Paragon. Shepard must be the hero, the ultimate hero not some @ss that get's the job done in an underhanded way.

I beleive a Paragon path will lead to victory over the reapers and council space more united than ever before! Renegade will also do beat the reapers but will most likely leave a great cost and aftermath to deal with.

Don't get me wrong, people will die and this time I think it will be hard wired into the script like Kaiden/Ashly!


See, for me the Paragon/Renegade actions of Shepard change the tone of the story a lot.

If you're a Paragon, there's Always A Way, and the fact you don't compromise your principles for success makes the ultimate victory all the sweeter. I tend towards this as my 'canon' Shepard, because like you and Conrad Verner, Shepard should be a HERO.

If you're a Renegade, the universe is a rough place. You're fighting some pretty terrible and mean people, and the only way to beat them is to be an even tougher **** (or son-of-a-****.) Really the only way I can get into the Renegade mindset is with my Sole Survivor/Colonist; you gotta feel like having your whole world wiped out by slavers, and then your whole unit wiped out by thresher maws, would put you in the mindset that when it comes to survival, you don't mess around.

And actually, I was thinking earlier how lucky I was to get through the suicide mission, and I was surprised there was no "Virmire choice". Now, if you had to choose between saving Character X and Miranda (say in the final mission), is there any character that would make you at least THINK about it?

I had Miranda and Grunt in the final team, and was worried that they'd spring a "only save one" on me after I beat the last boss. And I would feel bad about losing Grunt, especially after the Shaman sent me his whole "he's the future of the Krogan" email. I also would feel bad if I had to sacrifice Mordin for Miranda, because I really want him to cure the genophage. (Even though he's quite old for a Salarian, and probably dead in a few years anyway...)