65 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

WillieStyle wrote...

rumination888 wrote...]

The reason for Geth Shields is for the 10% damage bonus. The extra survivability is just icing on the cake. Its my number one bonus pick for an Infiltrator if I plan on taking Garrus or Jack everywhere with me.

I'm not sure I understand.
So you take Geth Shield Boost for the 10% extra damge.  You then rely on Garrus's Squad Armor Piercing Ammo for 50% weapon damage.

You could instead take Armor Piercing Ammo as your bonus skill for 70% weapon damage with Tunsgten Ammo.

So you lose 20% weapon damage from Tungsten, and  you have to use a cooldown every 60 secs (or whenever your shields get used up) that locks out Tactical Cloak and Incenerate for 12 secs everytime you use it.
Doesn't seem like a good trade to me, but I guess if you feel like you really need the extra defense from Geth Shield Boost you could take it.

Half of the enemies you face are shielded. The majority of armored enemies on Insanity also happen to either die so fast that ammo skills don't matter(husks) or they're mechs where Disrupter Ammo gives the exact same damage against their armor and health as AP ammo. Having 10% more damage against every type of enemy is on par with doing 20% more damage against half of an enemy's health.

[WillieStyle]

Assassin cloak is definitely nice if you want to conserve ammo, but I honestly don't have issues with it, enough drops that I can replace it easily enough for anything I need. Standard enemies are still one shot even with my non-cloak shots, and for scions I use my CD on incinerate instead of cloaks and I feel it makes up the difference. Plus with the geth shield running as previously stated I have slightly higher overall damage output uncloaked...though I do lack Miranda, which leads to next point.

I hope I don't come off as overly argumentative here. Your playstyle is certainly valid. I just disagree with a few things.



My shields rarely break as long as I'm firing from cover. And yes I alternate cloaked an non-cloaked sniper shots. I just try to time my shots for when the enemy fire pauses. Also, slow-mo sniper mode means I can dodge rockets and even bullets while sniping.



Assasin Cloak + Sniper shot is more dps than Incenerate + Sniper Shots.

Assassin Cloak is +70% weapon damage for 1 shot. Heavy incenerate is 210 damage. As long as you do at least 280 damage with the sniper shot, Assassin Cloak is more dps. The starting Mantis Sniper Rifle does ~265 damage without mods or upgrades. The Widow does ~360 damage per shot without mods or upgrades. This isn't even counting headshots.

Assassin Cloak is FAR more dps than Incenerate on tough mobs.



However, Assassin cloak is often overkill on regular mobs. In this case, it's better to use regular sniper shots on one mob, then incerate a second mob.



Finally, Geth Shield boost doesn't give you a 10% damage advantage because you could have taken Tungsten Rounds instead for a 70% damage bonus. Instead you are stuck with at most a 50% damage bonus meaning Geth Shield Boost actually costs you 10% damage.

[Paeyvn]

rumination888 wrote...

Half of the enemies you face are shielded. The majority of armored enemies on Insanity also happen to either die so fast that ammo skills don't matter(husks) or they're mechs where Disrupter Ammo gives the exact same damage against their armor and health as AP ammo. Having 10% more damage against every type of enemy is on par with doing 20% more damage against half of an enemy's health.

And let's not forget that as an infiltrator armor is ALREADY your b*tch due to sheer omg sniper armor rape. I laugh at gunships...

[WillieStyle]

rumination888 wrote...

Half of the enemies you face are shielded. The majority of armored enemies on Insanity also happen to either die so fast that ammo skills don't matter(husks) or they're mechs where Disrupter Ammo gives the exact same damage against their armor and health as AP ammo. Having 10% more damage against every type of enemy is on par with doing 20% more damage against half of an enemy's health.

1) Almost everything has armor on Insanity, not just husks and mechs.

2) Tungsten Ammo is 70% bonus damage to Armor and Health. Heavy disruptor ammo is 60% bonus damage to shields and synthetics.  Meaning, sans shields, Tungsten ammo is more dps even against Mechs and Geth.

3) There are quite a few tough enemies with plenty of armor and little to no shields (I'm looking at you Scions). In fact, I might be wrong, but I find that most enemies have more Armor than Shiels/Barriers.

4) Armor + Health is basically always much more than half of an enemy's health.

That said, I tink Geth Shield boost affects Incenerate whereas Armor Piercing Rounds do not.  So if you have a more Incenerate heavy playstyle, it might be more attractive than Tungsten ammo.

[Paeyvn]

WillieStyle wrote...

I hope I don't come off as overly argumentative here. Your playstyle is certainly valid. I just disagree with a few things.

My shields rarely break as long as I'm firing from cover. And yes I alternate cloaked an non-cloaked sniper shots. I just try to time my shots for when the enemy fire pauses. Also, slow-mo sniper mode means I can dodge rockets and even bullets while sniping.

Assasin Cloak + Sniper shot is more dps than Incenerate + Sniper Shots.
Assassin Cloak is +70% weapon damage for 1 shot. Heavy incenerate is 210 damage. As long as you do at least 280 damage with the sniper shot, Assassin Cloak is more dps. The starting Mantis Sniper Rifle does ~265 damage without mods or upgrades. The Widow does ~360 damage per shot without mods or upgrades. This isn't even counting headshots.
Assassin Cloak is FAR more dps than Incenerate on tough mobs.

However, Assassin cloak is often overkill on regular mobs. In this case, it's better to use regular sniper shots on one mob, then incerate a second mob.

Finally, Geth Shield boost doesn't give you a 10% damage advantage because you could have taken Tungsten Rounds instead for a 70% damage bonus. Instead you are stuck with at most a 50% damage bonus meaning Geth Shield Boost actually costs you 10% damage.

Rockets are easily dodgeable, bullets with lower numbers of enemies are as well. Get enough Collector Assassins together in a club though and it gets to be a pain...instant beam.

Yeah, assassin cloak will deal more than incinerate, never said it didn't, though I guess I didn't say it as clearly as I meant I suppose, but it's supplementary.

And as for Tungsten rounds, yeah, overall you might lose that tiny bit, but I NEVER have to stop shooting to let my shields come back up if I don't want to. And that combined with the added flexibility for CQC encounters, "Oh ****" instaregen moments, I think it's a fair trade. Infiltrator damage is already ungodly I'm willing to sacrifice it for that little bit.

[WillieStyle]

Paeyvn wrote...

And let's not forget that as an infiltrator armor is ALREADY your b*tch due to sheer omg sniper armor rape. I laugh at gunships...

I don't understand this argument. More damage is more damage. It doesn't matter if I'm already good at damaging armor, a 70% boost to armor damage is still a 70% boost to armor damage.  Unless you are already 1-shotting the mob, Tungsten ammo is a dramatic boost to dps.  So instead of killing gunships in 3 shots, you kill them in 2 for example.

[Ataru13]

Widow Sniper with Heavy Warp ammo is the best weapon in the game. Seriously, you can one shot just about anything with that combo... I basically only ever switch to disruptor ammo to fight YMIRs.

[WillieStyle]

To be clear, I'm not saying you guys are wrong or anything. I'm just stating why I personally would go in a different direction.

[Paeyvn]

WillieStyle wrote...

1) Almost everything has armor on Insanity, not just husks and mechs.

2) Tungsten Ammo is 70% bonus damage to Armor and Health. Heavy disruptor ammo is 60% bonus damage to shields and synthetics.  Meaning, sans shields, Tungsten ammo is more dps even against Mechs and Geth.

3) There are quite a few tough enemies with plenty of armor and little to no shields (I'm looking at you Scions). In fact, I might be wrong, but I find that most enemies have more Armor than Shiels/Barriers.

4) Armor + Health is basically always much more than half of an enemy's health.

That said, I tink Geth Shield boost affects Incenerate whereas Armor Piercing Rounds do not.  So if you have a more Incenerate heavy playstyle, it might be more attractive than Tungsten ammo.

1) Sorta true, but most of them are less threatening in my eyes. Husks are stupid easy with little armor. Scions are so slow I can dance around em. The only one that can make me crap myself is a charging krogan 2 feet from my face. And I have cloak or my geth shield for that, depending on if I need to run or buy a little more time to shoot em with like an SMG or something.

2) Mechs, by 10% yeah. ALL geth have shields. In fact geth are MOSTLY shields which Tungsten doesn't boost. You don't see geth that often though so they're not that valid of an argument really though. Collectors though for the most part have no armor, the only one that does being Harbinger (he's screwed once he's at this point basically anyway though). I may be possibly wrong here though, but I seem to have noticed doing increased damage to barriers with Disruptor even though it's not directly listed. One day I'll have to actually try it I suppose though. Kind of like I've sworn I've seen Incendiary doing decent to shield but it's absolutely abysmal against synthetic health bars.

3) True fact, but I find they all have some catch that lowers their threat level considerably.

4) This is true...with that ammo you are gauranteed to get at least the health part for half, and armor mobs are normally fairly stacked with it. Disruptor doesn't help with like blue sun's hp bars for example, but the extra bit on shields is enough to kill them anyway...non-disruptor shots have em living with like 1% hp...the little carry over is enough.

[rumination888]

WillieStyle wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Half of the enemies you face are shielded. The majority of armored enemies on Insanity also happen to either die so fast that ammo skills don't matter(husks) or they're mechs where Disrupter Ammo gives the exact same damage against their armor and health as AP ammo. Having 10% more damage against every type of enemy is on par with doing 20% more damage against half of an enemy's health.

1) Almost everything has armor on Insanity, not just husks and mechs.

2) Tungsten Ammo is 70% bonus damage to Armor and Health. Heavy disruptor ammo is 60% bonus damage to shields and synthetics.  Meaning, sans shields, Tungsten ammo is more dps even against Mechs and Geth.

3) There are quite a few tough enemies with plenty of armor and little to no shields (I'm looking at you Scions). In fact, I might be wrong, but I find that most enemies have more Armor than Shiels/Barriers.

4) Armor + Health is basically always much more than half of an enemy's health.

That said, I tink Geth Shield boost affects Incenerate whereas Armor Piercing Rounds do not.  So if you have a more Incenerate heavy playstyle, it might be more attractive than Tungsten ammo.

Geth Shields + Disrupter ammo is the exact same damage as AP ammo. Plus it gives the added benefit of stunning them. Think before you argue, please.

If you're not fighting low health enemies and mechs, you're fighting mercs or collectors. All of whom are shielded/barriered.

And you'll drop scions in the same number of SR shots with Geth Shields + Garrus as you would with Tungsten Rounds. So whats the point of doing 10% more damage against them if it doesn't even affect your killing speed?

[Paeyvn]

WillieStyle wrote...

To be clear, I'm not saying you guys are wrong or anything. I'm just stating why I personally would go in a different direction.

Likewise. Point of this thread though is discussing builds and reasons for them/viability. Argument and discussion on them helps develop the build more thoroughly for the readers to understand the thinking behind it. If someone wants to make things die in a shot they can go route a, for example, if people want control, route b, if people want a second playthrough shotgun wielding infiltrator they go with route c, etc =P

[blbshaw2]

My strongest squad included Grunt for brute force, and added Samara if I wanted a strong biotic, or Miranda for all around strength. I used Incinerate the most with splash, especially when Husks present. Any sniper rifle gives great advantage, and took a Collector Particle Beam if something really tough needed taking out (Death Choir, Geth Colossus, etc.) but did feel a bit like cheating. Did not worry that much about shields, just run and duck instead. All around infiltrator was more versatile than Soldier.

[Paeyvn]

Oh yes, and I was reminded that because of Geth shield it made the collector ship platforms quite easy. Particle beam burn the guardian down first on the first platform, just stand up and tank it like a man, shields go down, pop them back up for instant recharge, and continue burning. He didn't even get to possess someone on the first platform =P

[Lucy Glitter]

I always used Reave as the bonus power. Huh.

[Maestro Vivaldi]

For my bonus power i hesitate between Warp Ammo or Tungsten Ammo. What is the exact damage bonus with Warp ammo when something is under the effects of a biotic power ? I believe it adds a 50% damage bonus ? Is it less ? I think warp ammo under that condition and with a good biotic allie can add a 100 % damage bonus total ? No ? I know that Warp Ammo is also effective vs Barrier...

So for a more tactical approach i may choose Warp Ammo if the bonus is 100% more with a target under Biotic effects.
Tungsten Ammo is good too with its automatic 70 % damage bonus with Armor and Health minus Barrier... But don't forget that Infiltrator use the Sniper Riffle a lot so it's good to shoot one shot through barrier too with his undercover style.

Modifié par Maestro Vivaldi, 06 février 2010 - 10:57 .

[atheelogos]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I've done a Hardcore Infiltrator, so here's my tips:

1. I'd definitely recommend completely skipping cryo ammo and using warp ammo as your bonus perk. Cryo ammo is kind of useless when your trying to 1 shot people.

True. Unless you have biotics there is no real reason to use cryo.

[CSM31]

I tended to primarily use Warp Ammo as my bonus power as it gave extra damage against everything and was the only ammo (that I know of) that gave extra damage against barriers which is useful against collectors on insanity.



I did occasionally swap it out for Tungsten AP Ammo for specific missions which I knew there were no barriered enemies, making the derelict reaper quite easy when mowing Husks down with the SMG you get on Tali's mission followed by using the Cain on the Reaper Core.

[Mykyko]

Paeyvn wrote...

Personally I used:
Disruptor Ammo 4/4
Cryo Ammo 1/4
Enhanced Cloak 4/4
Heavy Incinerate 4/4
Assassin 4/4
Geth Shield (Damage Evolve) 4/4

While I'd prefer AP or Warp ammo, the geth shield is too useful for me to want to pass up. The massive boost to shields, or the recharge on demand, combined with the passive damage bonus just makes it too overall useful to pass up.

Frankly I don't see the point of the damage cloak too much, though it is there. I prefer enhanced though because, frankly, anything that doesn't die in 1 hit from just an enhanced cloak bonus is still going to be miles from dying with the damage cloak. I have no problems one shotting every trooper, drone, or other common enemy I see. The harder enemies are always 2+. This is the big reason I prefer that extra duration on cloak, I find it more useful more often.

Oh yes, and for teammate selection, I normally prefer 2 other sniping characters (Legion and Thane are probably the most effective pair, though Garrus works fairly well too...and if he has Squad AP ammo, you could use that) or taking Legion and Tali along together for drone mayhem...distracts enemies so much it's just easy to snipe all their domes.

And BTW...I play exclusively on Insanity.

I am very interested in your build and will try it on insanity myself. But I have 1 question.... How do you deal with husks? Especially those acompanied by scions.... Do you maybe use grenade launcher or similar heavy weapon for that specially? Thanks.

[Paeyvn]

Mykyko wrote...

Paeyvn wrote...

Personally I used:
Disruptor Ammo 4/4
Cryo Ammo 1/4
Enhanced Cloak 4/4
Heavy Incinerate 4/4
Assassin 4/4
Geth Shield (Damage Evolve) 4/4

While I'd prefer AP or Warp ammo, the geth shield is too useful for me to want to pass up. The massive boost to shields, or the recharge on demand, combined with the passive damage bonus just makes it too overall useful to pass up.

Frankly I don't see the point of the damage cloak too much, though it is there. I prefer enhanced though because, frankly, anything that doesn't die in 1 hit from just an enhanced cloak bonus is still going to be miles from dying with the damage cloak. I have no problems one shotting every trooper, drone, or other common enemy I see. The harder enemies are always 2+. This is the big reason I prefer that extra duration on cloak, I find it more useful more often.

Oh yes, and for teammate selection, I normally prefer 2 other sniping characters (Legion and Thane are probably the most effective pair, though Garrus works fairly well too...and if he has Squad AP ammo, you could use that) or taking Legion and Tali along together for drone mayhem...distracts enemies so much it's just easy to snipe all their domes.

And BTW...I play exclusively on Insanity.

I am very interested in your build and will try it on insanity myself. But I have 1 question.... How do you deal with husks? Especially those acompanied by scions.... Do you maybe use grenade launcher or similar heavy weapon for that specially? Thanks.

Husks I use Incinerate and SMG with Cryo...or a lot of times will just even negate switching the ammo types. When you're shooting them, aim at their legs/waist and you can kill them by blowing their legs off before they even get to half hp. Can drop them left and right without much issue really. Heavy weapons wouldn't have enough ammo for Husks in my opinion, too many swarming too fast...could blow up a lot with a shot, but there's a lot more coming. If Scions are present, it gets a little trickier and I'll commence pelting the Scion with sniper shots in his face as soon as I see it til all Scions are dead. Just kite the husks alternating sprinting away for a second and shooting the scion until it's dead. If the husks get too close, cloak, move to another spot, and resume. I actually dropped the Scion that comes with the husk pack during the biotic shield on the suicide mission before ever being touched by a husk, just had my teammates deal with them until I'd killed the Scion.

*Edit* I should also note I use the stimulator legs that increase storm speed because that extra bit makes the sprint kiting just a little bit easier.

Modifié par Paeyvn, 06 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[Paeyvn]

KorPhaeron11 wrote...

Im sorry but I got to ask, where are you guys pulling these Widow shot numbers from, 2-3 head shot for the terminator, ya right maybe on casual

You can one-shot the normal mobs and the collector general, but you need 2 shots for the scions. Also heard you can one-shot the heavy mech which is bull****, you need 2 shots for this too.

LOL had some guy saying that he 1-shot the maw in another tread. The point is the Widow holds only 14 rounds and if you have more then 1 heavy you end up fast without bullets.

Thats why I prefer the Viper, lots of ammo, and get the vindicator which is also great at long range, with use of the cloak.

And with the viper I can do the same damage as with the Widow, since you can fire so fast, by the time you reloaded the widow iv head-shot with the viper 5 times, btw if you want to go with this setup the passive should be Agent. 

I don't have the exact number of shots it takes me to drop the Harbinger with Widow on hand, 3 headshots does feel right. I seem to remember first one gets him to 1/3ish barrier, second 2/3ish armor, 3rd dead. This is with max upgrades mind you, if you're earlier on it won't happen quite that fast.

And I too like the Viper somewhat, but I found I burned through ammo with it just as fast as the widow...it was better than mantis for sure, but took so many shots to drop someone it didn't seem to balance out. Preference though.

[WillieStyle]

KorPhaeron11 wrote...

And with the viper I can do the same damage as with the Widow, since you can fire so fast, by the time you reloaded the widow iv head-shot with the viper 5 times, btw if you want to go with this setup the passive should be Agent. 

No you can't.
The Viper fires 3.5 times faster than the Widow, but the Widow does 4.5 times more damage per shot.
Ah but you have to reload the Widow you say.  Sure, but on Insanity, you have to duck down after about 3 shots from the Viper anyway.  While you're undercover, you might as well reload.  Also, it's hard to chain headshots with the Viper because each time you hit a mob in the head, they do that annoying stagger animation where their head wiggles around.  And non of this even considers Tactical Cloak.

With Tactical Cloak, the Widow will do FAR more dps than the Viper in practice. 
P.S.
With max Assassin Cloak, Max Assassin, Full Sniper Rifle Mods, The +10% head damage visor, Miranda's Damage Bonus, and Tungsten Rounds, I can 2 shot the Harbinger with the Widow, On Insanity. 

Modifié par WillieStyle, 06 février 2010 - 08:39 .

[WillieStyle]

Also, the Ammo argument is a bit of a red Herring. The Viper holds about 4.5 times more ammo than the Widow but does 4.5 times less damage per shot.

Unless you're wasting Widow shots on half dead regular mobs (which you could just finish off with Incenerate) you shouldn't run out of ammo any faster with the Widow.

[apocalyp_sys]

Just tested infiltrator build with geth shield versus husks, insanity, Horizon. Lvl 12, but already maxed passive skill and assasination cloak. Not very helpful skills against husks, though. After an hour it seems that running around cloaked, using powers, shield and killing them one-by-one with melee attack (zombie-shooter style) is much more fun and still as effective as using smg.
I admit that the situation is probably better with maxed incinerate and at lvl 30.
Or maybe i'm just too lame at shooting fast-moving targets with smg. Smg is still ok if husks are running in a straight line towards you though.
I like to have a shielding power like barrier, etc, as it reduces time you must sit in cover and serves as panic "health potion", but imo there is no efficent enough tactic against husks when using such build.
Good thing you can switch bonus power between missions.

Modifié par apocalyp_sys, 06 février 2010 - 09:52 .

[AoiSakuraba]

I've beat ME2 on hardcore with an infiltrator and am currently working on insanity.



Squad-Mates:

- grunt

- Morinth



Gear:

- Visor (10% headshot damage)

- Shield Harness Chest (+5% shields)

- Amplifier Plates Shoulder (+5% power damage)

- Off Hand Ammo Pack Arms (+10% ammo capacity)

- Ordinance Pack Legs (+10% heavy ammo)

- Advanced Combat Training Shotgun



Skills:

- Enhanced Cloak (maxed stealth duration option)

- Heavy Incinerate (maxed incinerate damage option)

- Improved AI Hacking (maxed AI single target longer duration better shields)

- Agent class (-15% power cooldown +20% Health 50% sniper slowdown)

- Enhanced Dominate (maxed dominate duration option)