276 réponses à ce sujet

[NeinoRanatos]

Yo mamma jokes would be sufficient I think..or we could make a MP mod for ME2 and see who is the better.

[matt654321]

Kaorunandrak wrote...
all you've done for the last two pages is try to argue with people who weren't agrueing with you to begin with and construe people posts to fit what you obviously want to hear. Just cause blank1 hurt your feeling with his GPR is only good in your head speech.

Fail again, troll. I've been responding to your points, explaining why your opinion isn't well founded. I made one comment that my explaining the use of the GPR being founded was in response to that one statement. However, I've been talking about YOUR POINTS.

Kaorunandrak wrote...
I have already proved this through out everything I have said to you and you have proved it as well with every single post you have made. No one save one person has tried demeaning you and your build. And you just can't seem to get that or even let this whole thing go so people can move on with other questions/comments or opinions.

You've been constantly trying to poke holes in it. Every time you say this, you also say why it wouldn't work. I'm responding to you. Get over it.

Kaorunandrak wrote...
All i've seen from your posts is a constant need for attention and the need to be right. If it will get you to shut your ignorant, indignant, and self righteous mouth up then here.

Fail again, troll. I'm trying to have a discussion. Apparently you're allergic to that or something. Either way, if you bring up points against it that are wrong, I'm going to respond to them.

Kaorunandrak wrote...
MATT654321 IS THE BESTEST MOST AWESOMENESS SOLDIER AND PLAIN MASS EFFECT 2 PLAYER IN THE WORLD ANYONE WHO HAS THEIR OWN OPINION OR OWN STYLE OF PLAY  OR EVEN THEIR OWN BRAIN IN THEIR HEAD IS STINKY DOO DOO HEADS THAT SPOUT STUPID.

Now can we move on? Or are we gonna have to resort to Yo mamma jokes?

Fail. I've constantly said that the Revenant may work. I also do believe that the GPR + Widow is superior. You want to call me a troll for trying to EXPLAIN MYSELF? Fail.

This is evidence that you can't stay on topic because you've completely lost. You have no more points to make.

[Tryst]

See, the problem here is those bonuses against defense types are not the be all, end all.



Widow: 368.3 damage/round, 1.5 second reload, 1.5 vs armor/1.0 vs shields: vs armor 368.3 dps, vs shields 245.53



Viper: 81.9 damage/round, 0.25 shots/sec, 1.35 vs armor/1.15 vs shields: 442.26 dps vs armor, 376.74 vs shields



Geth Pulse Rifle: 3.7 damage/round, 16.67 shots/sec, 1.35 vs shields/1.15 vs armor: vs shields 83.27 dps, vs armor 70.9 dps



Revenant Machine Gun: 21.3 damage/round, 11.67 shots/sec, 1.2 vs shields/1.4 vs armor: vs shields 298.29 dps, vs armor 347.99 dps



Now, you can say that the Viper being able to fire faster than its refire rate by pressing the button faster is a bug, that would halve Viper dps or so, but currently it does not allowing the Viper to fire at full ROF capacity. The other argument is that the numbers from the .ini are wrong.

[Kaorunandrak]

M-76 Revanant

Fire Rate: 700 RPM

Fire Mode: Automatic

Damage (base): 21.3

Ammo Capacity: 80 / 480



GPR



Fire Rate: 1000 RPM, Variable (alternates between fast and slow)

Fire Mode: Automatic

Damage: 3.7

Ammo Capacity: 40 / 480



m-97 viper

Fire Rate: Low

Fire Mode: Semi-Automatic

Damage: 81.9

Ammo Capacity: 12 / 48



Widow anti-material rifle

Fire Rate: Low

Fire Mode: Single-Shot

Damage: 368.3

Ammo Capacity: 1 / 12



now add in these

M-76 Revenant: x1.4 armor, x1.2 shields, barrier



Geth Pulse Rifle: x1.15 armor, x1.35 shields, barrier



M-97 Viper: x1.35 armor, x1.15 shields, barrier



M-98 Widow: x1.5 armor



factor in the 1.5 second universal reload time



and then do your math

[matt654321]

Trystz wrote...
Now, you can say that the Viper being able to fire faster than its refire rate by pressing the button faster is a bug, that would halve Viper dps or so, but currently it does not allowing the Viper to fire at full ROF capacity. The other argument is that the numbers from the .ini are wrong.

I can tell you right off the bat that some of those numbers are wrong. GPR doesn't have a constant fire rate. There isn't one number to be used, it can only be expressed as a function of time (and the in-game description says that it's sinusoidal, so that's probably what it is).

Further, the Widow has an advantage in that you only need to line up a headshot once. It's much harder to sustain a constant barrage of headshots with the Viper, especially since the enemy staggers when you get the first one off.

I've never seen anyone argue that the Viper is better than the Widow. Do you have other sources to confirm your numbers?

There might also be other factors to consider - for example, look to the shotgun mod thread.

Modifié par matt654321, 13 février 2010 - 12:53 .

[Kaorunandrak]

Trystz wrote...

See, the problem here is those bonuses against defense types are not the be all, end all.

Widow: 368.3 damage/round, 1.5 second reload, 1.5 vs armor/1.0 vs shields: vs armor 368.3 dps, vs shields 245.53

Viper: 81.9 damage/round, 0.25 shots/sec, 1.35 vs armor/1.15 vs shields: 442.26 dps vs armor, 376.74 vs shields

Geth Pulse Rifle: 3.7 damage/round, 16.67 shots/sec, 1.35 vs shields/1.15 vs armor: vs shields 83.27 dps, vs armor 70.9 dps

Revenant Machine Gun: 21.3 damage/round, 11.67 shots/sec, 1.2 vs shields/1.4 vs armor: vs shields 298.29 dps, vs armor 347.99 dps

Now, you can say that the Viper being able to fire faster than its refire rate by pressing the button faster is a bug, that would halve Viper dps or so, but currently it does not allowing the Viper to fire at full ROF capacity. The other argument is that the numbers from the .ini are wrong.

you beat me to it lol

[Crackseed]

Yo momma so fat when she fell on my datapad Husks popped out!

*coughs* Getting back on topic - that's the one reason I won't use the Inferno grenade in a main playthrough. It's a cooldown that'll burn up my potential need for a HAR/CS. It's definitely a fun skill though.

How's everyone liking that new shotgun? I find it's a great backup weapon for close quarters fighting. Love it - I just hate the 3 shots per thermal clip deal.

Modifié par crackseed, 13 février 2010 - 12:53 .

[Tryst]

Those are the ones I've seen posted multiple times from the .ini file, there's one somewhere on these boards and then one on gamefaqs. I think the big thing for the Viper/Widow confrontation is two part, first it requires the Viper to be exposed for an additional second or so, which we all know on Insanity can be bad for your health. The other big one is for the Infiltrator the Widow comes out ahead because of cloak since it works for the one shot, but for a soldier because AR can be used for multiple shots, that is not a factor to the same degree.

[Kaorunandrak]

I have repleaced all my shotgun minus grunt and his 300 shotgun with the new one. It works wonders and has made jack an extremly viable member of my team with her warp ammo.


and its also up on the wikia as far as damage numbers too and this is a post straight from the devs regarding power numbers/weapon modifiers
http://social.biowar...1143264#1143264

Modifié par Kaorunandrak, 13 février 2010 - 01:02 .

[Crackseed]

Yeah and I don't have to worry about Tali getting herself killed when using the shotgun too!

[rt604]

Hey Kaorunandrak can you go through your soldier build again. I just wanted to see what your ammo allocations went, and whether you went with squad or heavy.



I have a soldier

Hardened Adrenaline Rush (-50% dmg to life)

Concussion Shot 1 point

Disruptor Ammo 6 points going to max this but should I take squad or heavy

Incendiary Ammo 10 points i took heavy

Combat Mastery 10 points took Shock trooper



What should I take for my additional skill. I like using the Revenant but have to practice more without the accuracy upgrade. Doing an insanity run on ng +. Should I retrain and reallocate the points. I skimmed through most of your posts but I didn't get all the specifics. Other peoples input would be great. I had a tough time on certain areas in my first play through on veteran, but I think it was because of my team makeup for a particular mission without knowing what I was taking on.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Well ... this Geth PR+ Widow VS Rev.+Viper is nice argumenting...

I havent got the GPR till maybe later in this day, so i will see for myself how it works on Insane; but besides the nastiness against Shields i dont see a point in the most ridiculous Base Damage.



The Widow seems to be nasty incarnate (+ Headshot extra damage and even +60%), but 13 Rounds arent enough for me. Ok you maybe get 2 Rounds back per Heat-Sink (strange, becasue for the Mantis i always got only 1 Extraround ...), so you get double back, while needing 1 Shot for 1 Kill; BUT you still have to get to the Location of the dropped Sink.



Also there is besides the Mathematics to practical differences. One , that was already called, is the Reloading. How many times has the Widow to reload in comparison to the Viper? 6 times

How many times has the GPR to reload when compared to the REV? 2-3 times?

Every Standard Reload takes apprximately 1,5 Seconds. Add this to your Shooting.



Second: The Weapon Changing: How long does it take to change your Weapon?

How many times does the 2 Weapon-Combos each need to be changed per Battle?

Which Combo looses more from the annyoing "Aim-needs-to-be-readjusted"?



Also Third: Which Combo can handle more "special" Situations on the Battlefield?

Example: The "Husk-Rush" at the End of the first Mission on the Collectors Ship.



I mean: in "Residen Evil 5" even a Sniper Rifle or Magnum could handle such rushing Masses, because the Shots penetrate several Targets. But that does not work in "Mass Effect 2"!

So a Build that relies more on a Weapon with less Aim-Focus and more "Dishing-out!" would be better fitting (ofc you could take the Heavy Collector Beam with you, but this would go against a "pure" Comparison of 2-Weapon Combos).



Finally the main difference between the 2 "Builds" is: Offensive or Defensive.

The REV and Viper are two nasty Slug-spitting Weapos, that rely on overpowering the Enemy with Masses of Bullets! As a Soldier you should better be using the 50% DR -Version of the Adrenaline Rush, so you 1. will take less Damage, while standing longer in Enemy Fire

and 2. while this happens you will hit the Enemys, when they are most vulnerable: While firing themself!



Defesnive: The Widow with its small Ammo Capacity and the GPR with its Shield-Chipping Ability are more of a Scalpel, that needs Timing, Planning, good Accuracy and Aim.

It is better fitting, to have a 70% Slowdown with the Adrenaline Rush, because your Shooting Range will be occasionally farther away and you wont be standing around like "Charlie Sheen as Rambo on Top of a Ammo-Hill XD". So your One Shot- One Kill Metapher becomes even real.



I think thats it... maybe someone could verify the time needed for Killing-Sperees with the extra Factors. After all i will try my Soldier now with the AR-Ammo instead of the Warp and fetch the GPR for trying it out.

At next i try a Infiltrator build, so i can try out this "godly" Widow.

Maybe i wont try this Soldier special build with Widow and GPR, but thats because i dont have the Patience and Nerves for One Shot- Killing and lacking the Extra Ammo on Insane

[PnXMarcin1PL]

my build is (always on insane)
heavy concussive shot 4
hardened adrenaline rush 4
Heavy Disruptor ammo 4
Inferno Ammo 4
Commando 4
Cryo 0
Armor Piercing 1 (and i avoid this power to make the game harder, still its not that hard)

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 13 février 2010 - 11:51 .

[rt604]

Oh and when you do squad abilities do you use the heavy version or the wider area of effect version, just like to hear what people have to say

[Kaorunandrak]

Rt604 This is my build currently

Hardened Adrenaline rush 4(switched from heightened after I felt I was good enough with the REV to fire mid-long range)
Concusive blast 4(switched after getting pissed at a 3 man vorcha rocket team kept me pinned down during the Mordin reqruitment mish)
Heavy Disrupter rounds 4
inferno rounds 1
cryo round 0
Shock Trooper 4
Tungsten Rounds 4

My weapon load out is as such
Revenant with Tungsten ammo
Viper with Disrupter rounds
Predator with Disrupter rounds (for quick fireing weapon overloading and shield removal when pinned down not for stoping power. And also the increased ammo capacity.)
Eviscerator Shotgun with Tungsten ammo for close encounters ala Hicks

Team load out is usually
Miranda with Overload 4, Warp 4, Cerberus Leader 4,Tempest, Handcannon
Garrus with Heavy Concusive shot 4, Turian renegade 4, Squad AP Ammo 4, Vindicator, Mantis
I switch garrus out for Legion as soon as I get him
Legion with AI hacking 2, Explosive Drone 4, Geth Assasin 4, GSB 3, Geth pulse rifle, Widow

First I position my team mates then have them use there skills ASAP after they have their cover. I always have garrus/legion lay cover fire with their sniper rifles Legions drone helps alot with taking aggro off us and the rare chance he is able to hack a mech is a boon for a few seconds.

I would suggest using the heightened Adrenaline rush at first if you feel you need practice with the REV it helps alot and when you get good enough you can practically snipe with that gun.

Modifié par Kaorunandrak, 13 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

Well i have tested the GPR and tested the different Ammo Types and must say:

-Changing Weapons and Ammo IN-Battle takes too much time!



The GPR with Disruptor Rounds takes out the Shields veeery fast, but it takes another full Magazine (IF all hits!) to take out a normal Blue Sun!

So: Even when you would take a Armor/Health affine Weapon, the 1,5-3 seconds till you "Take back GPR, take out new Weapon and than Aim again" will loose you so much DPS, that you could have spammed the Screen with the Revenant blindfolded and the Target wouldnt be staying anymore.



The other thing is he Ammo: Having different Weapons with different Ammo-Types is ok, but using one Weapon and changing all the time the Ammo is a real Annoyance. It costs time, confuses you about what Ammo you have now loaded ("Oh Damn, what was it now again? Light Blue for Tungsten, or Dark Blue for Tungsten?" XD) and you will start to react on every single Enemy with "oh! This one has Armor, so i need now my Special Rounds, for that i also invested 10 Points!".

You will loose your Focus, and killing with Pure Sniping (dont care if Widow or Viper) or Rambo-Style (aimed wih Vindicator or spammed with Revenant) is a question of personal Style imo.



For my Soldier i stayed with the AR-Rounds (thanks to you Guys and let my Comrades take out Shields with Group-Disruptor or Overload. So i can concentrate on Gatling-Gunning or Pinpointing with Viper+Disruptor.

[rt604]

Kaorunandrak wrote...

Rt604 This is my build currently

Hardened Adrenaline rush 4(switched from heightened after I felt I was good enough with the REV to fire mid-long range)
Concusive blast 4(switched after getting pissed at a 3 man vorcha rocket team kept me pinned down during the Mordin reqruitment mish)
Heavy Disrupter rounds 4
inferno rounds 1
cryo round 0
Shock Trooper 4
Tungsten Rounds 4

My weapon load out is as such
Revenant with Tungsten ammo
Viper with Disrupter rounds
Predator with Disrupter rounds (for quick fireing weapon overloading and shield removal when pinned down not for stoping power. And also the increased ammo capacity.)
Eviscerator Shotgun with Tungsten ammo for close encounters ala Hicks

Team load out is usually
Miranda with Overload 4, Warp 4, Cerberus Leader 4,Tempest, Handcannon
Garrus with Heavy Concusive shot 4, Turian renegade 4, Squad AP Ammo 4, Vindicator, Mantis
I switch garrus out for Legion as soon as I get him
Legion with AI hacking 2, Explosive Drone 4, Geth Assasin 4, GSB 3, Geth pulse rifle, Widow

First I position my team mates then have them use there skills ASAP after they have their cover. I always have garrus/legion lay cover fire with their sniper rifles Legions drone helps alot with taking aggro off us and the rare chance he is able to hack a mech is a boon for a few seconds.

I would suggest using the heightened Adrenaline rush at first if you feel you need practice with the REV it helps alot and when you get good enough you can practically snipe with that gun.

I'm not too bad with the Revenant now, especially with the accuracy upgrade at further distances:D.  But I think there's room for improvement still, but practice makes perfect.  Is your tungsten rounds squad or heavy?  Do you use Grunt at all, I like Miranda with her bonuses, but I like Grunt as well for the 3rd party member.  How come you use the hand cannon?  And Concussive Blast is the larger area of effect right?  Thanks for the tips.

[Crackseed]

I'm running an almost parallel build to Kao's but have Heightened/Heavy CS instead as I like the time dialation and the direct heavy punch of a single CS.

I was using C-Blast but there's just too few opportunities to hit a group and have it CC them versus getting pretty much a direct one-hit knockdown against a focus target.

And yes C-Blast is the AoE one - sadly, if they have anything from armor and up still on, it will not knock them around.

Modifié par crackseed, 14 février 2010 - 04:07 .

[Kaorunandrak]

rt604 wrote...

Kaorunandrak wrote...

Rt604 This is my build currently

Hardened Adrenaline rush 4(switched from heightened after I felt I was good enough with the REV to fire mid-long range)
Concusive blast 4(switched after getting pissed at a 3 man vorcha rocket team kept me pinned down during the Mordin reqruitment mish)
Heavy Disrupter rounds 4
inferno rounds 1
cryo round 0
Shock Trooper 4
Tungsten Rounds 4

My weapon load out is as such
Revenant with Tungsten ammo
Viper with Disrupter rounds
Predator with Disrupter rounds (for quick fireing weapon overloading and shield removal when pinned down not for stoping power. And also the increased ammo capacity.)
Eviscerator Shotgun with Tungsten ammo for close encounters ala Hicks

Team load out is usually
Miranda with Overload 4, Warp 4, Cerberus Leader 4,Tempest, Handcannon
Garrus with Heavy Concusive shot 4, Turian renegade 4, Squad AP Ammo 4, Vindicator, Mantis
I switch garrus out for Legion as soon as I get him
Legion with AI hacking 2, Explosive Drone 4, Geth Assasin 4, GSB 3, Geth pulse rifle, Widow

First I position my team mates then have them use there skills ASAP after they have their cover. I always have garrus/legion lay cover fire with their sniper rifles Legions drone helps alot with taking aggro off us and the rare chance he is able to hack a mech is a boon for a few seconds.

I would suggest using the heightened Adrenaline rush at first if you feel you need practice with the REV it helps alot and when you get good enough you can practically snipe with that gun.

I'm not too bad with the Revenant now, especially with the accuracy upgrade at further distances:D.  But I think there's room for improvement still, but practice makes perfect.  Is your tungsten rounds squad or heavy?  Do you use Grunt at all, I like Miranda with her bonuses, but I like Grunt as well for the 3rd party member.  How come you use the hand cannon?  And Concussive Blast is the larger area of effect right?  Thanks for the tips.

Well tungsten is the "heavy" version of AP ammo. I'm greedy with that.
I used Grunt first game but not really anymore lol Garrus/Legion is too good for my play style.
I actually dont use the Handcannon even though I like it better then the Predator. I use the predator only in extreme situations where I am taking heavy fire. I use it in cunjunction with the Heavy Disrupter rounds to over load enemy weapons and then whip out the viper/rev and kill them off.

And I'm actually switching back from concusive blast back to heavy concusive shot due to the same reasons crackseed said. I was just getting pissed at those rocket  vorcha on this play through(usually I grab garrus first but this time I switched it up and Zaeed just wasnt working as my back up sniper on that mish dunno why.).

And honestly I like heightened Adrenaline rush more then hardened. But I wanted to change a few things for this play through I dont think I gave Hardened a long enough try. I'm not noticing a large enough difference between the two for me to say either is better i think they both work very well though. So for me its more of a personal preferance and I'm going to be switching back to heightened after this play through for sure. so me and Crackseed normally have the same exact set up of this

heightened adrenaline rush 4
heavy concusive shot 4
heavy disrupter round 4
inferno rounds 1
cryo rounds 0
shocktrooper 4
Tungsten rounds 4

thats been my normal build for my last 5 playthroughs and will be switching back to that as soon as i get back to the normandy lol

[rt604]

crackseed wrote...

I'm running an almost parallel build to Kao's but have Heightened/Heavy CS instead as I like the time dialation and the direct heavy punch of a single CS.

I was using C-Blast but there's just too few opportunities to hit a group and have it CC them versus getting pretty much a direct one-hit knockdown against a focus target.

And yes C-Blast is the AoE one - sadly, if they have anything from armor and up still on, it will not knock them around.

Crackseed what does CC mean?

[Warskullx]

The key skills are heightened adrenaline surge and commando/shocktrooper (it really doesn't matter which you pick.) Concussion shot isn't worth putting any points into. You should be adren surging instead.



The widowmaker is unnecessary for soldier. Against a vast majority of targets the mantis will do the same job. The mantis does around 260, the widowmaker does around 360, but under heightened adrenaline surge you gain a 140% damage bonus. Then with the headshot bonuses most things will die from a single headshot from the mantis. That extra damage from the widowmaker ends up overkill in many situations.



The widowmaker is a much bigger deal for infiltrators who don't get the massive damage boost soldiers get from adrenaline surge.



The eviscerator is the shotgun to use on soldier. Its greater effective range and high damage make it incredibly potent under adrenaline surge. Its great for somewhat close quarters, particularly for taking out something that is approaching your cover.



I'm still trying to figure out what the best option for the bonus skill is. As soldier you should be using adren surge extremely frequently. Thus any active skill will be rarely used. GSB is a good choice for the 15% damage bonus, you would activate it before the fight and just ride the damage bonus as long as it lasts. Tungsten or Warp ammo are very powerful and free up points to pick up squad cryo ammo. Reave is ok, but very niche.

[Kaorunandrak]

rt604 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

I'm running an almost parallel build to Kao's but have Heightened/Heavy CS instead as I like the time dialation and the direct heavy punch of a single CS.

I was using C-Blast but there's just too few opportunities to hit a group and have it CC them versus getting pretty much a direct one-hit knockdown against a focus target.

And yes C-Blast is the AoE one - sadly, if they have anything from armor and up still on, it will not knock them around.

Crackseed what does CC mean?

crowd control

[Crackseed]

rt604 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

I'm running an almost parallel build to Kao's but have Heightened/Heavy CS instead as I like the time dialation and the direct heavy punch of a single CS.

I was using C-Blast but there's just too few opportunities to hit a group and have it CC them versus getting pretty much a direct one-hit knockdown against a focus target.

And yes C-Blast is the AoE one - sadly, if they have anything from armor and up still on, it will not knock them around.

Crackseed what does CC mean?

Sorry RT, so much MMO jargon there  CC = Crowd Control. Basically I tend to use my Concussive Shot as either a method to knock someone out of cover or to put down a potentially dangerous threat as I'm moving up on it for Rev optimal range. Occasionally if I know my Heightened AR won't let me put down a threat before I get pincered I'll use the Concussive to knock one down while I finish one, get in cover and then go for the HAR.

Modifié par crackseed, 14 février 2010 - 11:08 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

I think i will try again the Vindicator, after all the Revenant-Spamming ^^

Wanna see if all Upgrades make a Difference for it...