276 réponses à ce sujet

[Turin_4]

AP and warp ammo, at least when they get to the maximized versions, work very well on Insanity difficulty for soldiers. I can verify that from my own experiences, because I had a really rough time, almost to the point of disliking the game, before I changed my bonus power to first warp and then later armor piercing ammunition. I can't speak to geth shield barrier, but it's my limited experience that on Insanity defensive powers simply don't work very well. Enemies do too much damage too quickly-the only real defense is dropping them quickly and before they get near you, in the case of ranged opponents, or just quickly in the case of melee opponents.

[Chief Savage Man]

AP Ammo is a great complement to Disruptor Ammo. On Insanity, you need your targets to die and quickly. AP Ammo is the best for this. Especially with the Widow rifle, you can use AP ammo to put down damn near any target that's giving you grief.

[Turin_4]

Exactly. This talk of using defensive powers and having seconds and seconds to dispatch single goon-level targets on Insanity is so far outside my own experience with playing a Soldier on that difficulty that I nearly think the people saying it haven't actually played for long on Insanity.

[Lolhaxx]

Turin_4 wrote...

Exactly. This talk of using defensive powers and having seconds and seconds to dispatch single goon-level targets on Insanity is so far outside my own experience with playing a Soldier on that difficulty that I nearly think the people saying it haven't actually played for long on Insanity.

Yeah I totally agree.  I tried a NG+ with my Soldier on Insanity and went full defensive build.  It was so much harder as my teammates damage for crap.  It seems like this game is balanced around the player being the primary dpser and teammates debuffers or being cannon fodder. 

I usually go with 4 Heightened Adrenaline Rush, 4 Heavy Disruptor Ammo, 4 Tungsten Armor Pen ammo, 4 Concussive, 4 Commando.  So far loving it.


Party members depends on what mission I'm doing. 

[Kaorunandrak]

The reason why people suggest the GSB no matter what difficulty is because of its 4th level power the improved version it gives you a 15% weapon damage increase ontop of 75% shields. Its about a second or two of extra fire time before shields eat ****e and also makes sure you do extra damage while your fireing.



Personally I'm in the AP ammo camp as always lol. Just thought I'd add a bit of insight to the other folks's mind set. Theres always two sides to every set up if you want to be more deffense IGSB is good if you want to destroy kill maim then I say AP ammo or possibly warp.



Just remember your best deffense on Insane is taking charge of your team don't let them be stupid and make sure you slot them in a way that going to bring something to the table for you.

[Turin_4]

See, I don't really understand the choice of Heightened over Hardened. Is the 20% greater time-slow effect really that big a sell over 50% health damage reduction? I'll have to check the durations on both-maybe they're different, but I don't think so.

I'll level one slight criticism at the game: pretty much every single mission has exactly one type of enemy, or at least one set of enemies who have only one set of resistances: barrier/armor/health, shields/armor/health. What I ended up doing, especially late in the game dealing with hordes of Collectors, was bringing Thane and Samara along on everything for their maximized Reave and Warp abilities. Collectors having only armor and barriers and never, I think, shields, the suicide mission was almost easy even on Insanity. Then again, I have scoped out a lot of the little niches, heh, so perhas that's not a fair criticism.

The reason why people suggest the GSB no matter what difficulty is
because of its 4th level power the improved version it gives you a 15%
weapon damage increase ontop of 75% shields. Its about a second or two
of extra fire time before shields eat ****e and also makes sure you do
extra damage while your fireing.

I can dig this, but it's a case of an extra second or two at most - because even with fully upgraded shields as a soldier, full shields almost never last that long - and 15% extra damage, versus seventy percent with AP.

Modifié par Turin_4, 11 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[Athenau]

See, I don't really understand the choice of Heightened over Hardened. Is the 20% greater time-slow effect really that big a sell over 50% health damage reduction? I'll have to check the durations on both-maybe they're different, but I don't think so.

The big difference is not the extra time dilation (though that's nice, you've gone from moving twice as fast to more than three times as fast) but the damage boost you get to compensate. At 50% dilation the bonus seems to be +100%. At 70% it goes up to +150%.

Modifié par Athenau, 11 février 2010 - 05:41 .

[IntrepidProdigy]

The thing about improved geth shield is the 10% weapon damage that goes along with it, not its wimpy protection. Couple that with all damage bonuses possible in the game and you can shred through most anything on insanity.



One thing to note though, I just recently found out about power damage bonuses adding to ammo power damage. I'm tempted to find out how this works combined with AP ammo.

[Kaorunandrak]

Turin_4 wrote...

The reason why people suggest the GSB no matter what difficulty is
because of its 4th level power the improved version it gives you a 15%
weapon damage increase ontop of 75% shields. Its about a second or two
of extra fire time before shields eat ****e and also makes sure you do
extra damage while your fireing.

I can dig this, but it's a case of an extra second or two at most - because even with fully upgraded shields as a soldier, full shields almost never last that long - and 15% extra damage, versus seventy percent with AP.

Oh I agree with you belive me Ap ammo is a staple of my build its to much awesome sauce. But I was just explaining why people recommend IGSB for those who want a shield as a loyalty power thats all. Also I belive it gets Improved with the Geth Shield bonus upgrades too. Not 100% on that one so dont quote me might be something to wiki and find out for sure about.

Totally was digging the new shotgun on the suicide mission tonight btw was sooooooooo sexy. But at the same time i only got to fire 6 rounds off it cause my CCB was wiping Husk groups in droves. FInding a new found love for the power and Because of my ap ammo spec I have slotting it isnt a problem. just wish i could put that 1 point i have left into something other then inferno as a throw away lol


Posting my build again for a pt from a few peeps so here it is. Also putting my goofy acros next to their name so people wont be "HUH?! WTF IS HE TALKING ABOUT?!"

(HAR) Heightened Adrenaline Rush 4
(CCB) Concussive Blast 4
(HDA) Heavy Disrupter Ammo 4
(SUK) Incendiary ammo 1
(MEH) Cryo Ammo 0
(ST) Shock Trooper 4
(PUREFINGWIN) Tungsten Ammo 4

Modifié par Kaorunandrak, 11 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[GlassRain]

never understood the fascination with GSB. I ran my whole Insanity run with it on my soldier.. turned it on maybe 5 times? Used it as an "Oh ****" button if my shields got bled and i was still in enemy fire. Other than that.. why waste a cooldown on anything BUT Adrenaline rush? 15% damage is cute but it just isnt worth it. I'm just sad you can't pick pull as an advanced power. THAT I'd actually use.

[Kaorunandrak]

honestly I'd use shockwave like a crack baby if it was available.

[WillieStyle]

Turin_4 wrote...

See, I don't really understand the choice of Heightened over Hardened. Is the 20% greater time-slow effect really that big a sell over 50% health damage reduction? I'll have to check the durations on both-maybe they're different, but I don't think so.

Heightened Adrenaline Rush reduces the attack speed of all enemies by 40% relative to Hardened Adrenaline Rush.
This means that while you get 50% less health damage with Hardened, you take 40% less damage of all types with Heightened.  And this is without considering the fact that you can dodge enemy fire more easily with Heightened and get out of range or under cover faster. 

If you just care about damage mitigation, Heightened is probably better than Hardened.

[lazorexplosion]

OK I'm convinced AP ammo is unneeded for a soldier. It's confirmed in the Vanguard thread that the inferno ammo doesn't do damage over time to armor/protections - it simply does the extra damage instantly instead of over time if the enemy is protected. So against armor inferno ammo is basically the same as AP ammo. Against health, inferno ammo is much better because of the incapacitation effect caused by the flames. As soon as they get down to health they get set on fire, don't use cover and don't shoot back because they are trying to put themselves out. It owns.

[Turin_4]

Well, no, not really-you only take '40%' less if you avoid the fire. And truthfully the only fire it's worth the effort to avoid while in adrenaline rush is heavy weapons fire, shotgun fire, and flame thrower fire-anything else is a case of, "Why are you maneuvering to dodge fire as opposed to killing enemies during adrenaline rush?"



Even with the greater time slow effect of Heightened, you're not going to be able to avoid assault rifle fire from an enemy because in order to avoid it you have to be up and looking for it-and if you're up and looking for it, you're taking fire from at least one other place, and you're also not using that time to shoot. Whereas with Hardened, even if that krogan with a shotgun is right on top of you, you can pop the power and still run ten back a good distance, taking spray in the back, and make it out. Can't do that with Heightened.

[Turin_4]

At rank 4, inferno ammo does +60% damage, vs. the +70% damage in tungsten rounds. Granted there is an additional benefit of staggering to unarmored enemies with inferno, but if you're using an assault rifle the truth is it's quite likely you'll stagger them for at least a moment, by which time your next couple of bursts will kill `em.

[WillieStyle]

Turin_4 wrote...

Well, no, not really-you only take '40%' less if you avoid the fire. 

This is false.

[Kaorunandrak]

Also Based on usage of the powers I can confirm Inferno rounds does NOT have the same bite as Tungsten rounds. AP ammo tears enemies down way faster then inferno I would suggest you try this for your self for a few mishes rather then just take my word for it.



But as I've said before to each their own its all about personal preference baby!

[Kaorunandrak]

oh um one more thing how exactly did the peeps on the vanguard board confirm that Infernos description was completely false as its damage is apparently BURST rather then DOT.



Hope that didn't come off dickish not my intent just curious and slightly doubtful of player based tests that contradict an official source. Unless ofcourse the tests that were done were done by unbiased parts and were semi professional.



Was this also confirmed by bioware?



HAR vs HARD is pretty much the same to me I use HAR over HARD just cause it gives me slightly better pin point accuracy when fireing the REV at long ranges or gives me a few extra seconds of avoidance when switching cover during a heavy mech fight.

[themaxzero]

For my Soldier I wanted something that could hit people hiding in cover. The new information on Inc. Ammo basically makes AP a waste. The Shield boosts are unneeded plus take up need cooldowns that could be used on Adr. Rush.



About the only thing that fits this description is Inferno Grenade. Can throw it over cover, sets things on fire and is a big AoE. It does not conflict with Adr. Rush because you would only use for enemies who won't get out of cover (which you can't shoot anyway). Dominate can also be useful.

[Turin_4]

This is false.

Yeah, I get that technically it's false. But the difference is that with Hardened you don't have to worry about getting hit, or watch your health gauge at all. With Heightened you're slightly less likely to be hit, but you still need to keep an eye on it. *shrug* I've played both extensively, and in my experience Hardened is better. The advantage in time dilation is slim, while the health damage reduction puts you further from death no matter what happens.

[apk117]

What's everyone's opinion on Warp Ammo vs. Armor Piercing? I'm thinking Warp because of the added versatility vs. Collectors, but the raw damage against health and armor of Armor Piercing is very nice.

[WillieStyle]

The advantage in time dilation is slim, while the health damage reduction puts you further from death no matter what happens.

The difference in time dilation is 40% less damage of all types from enemies, while the bonus from hardened is 50% less health damage from enemies. Non of this involves "watching health gauges."

Use whichever you want but both provide about the same level of protection though I personally prefer Heightened.

[Kaorunandrak]

Ok just got done reading the Vanguard thread and honestly not impressed by their findings.



First of all they are testing the ammos with shotguns which each point of the spread applys the ammo damage according to them. Most soldier dont use shotgun they use Assualt and Sniper rifles so this might contribute to the differences that most soldiers who have posted here have seen regarding the ammos.



Also I didnt see anything conclusive about their findings that Inferno ammo front loaded all the damage versus armor and then went pure DoT versus health. I have not seen this at all in any of my play throughs with my soldier.



I have in every situation found Ap ammo to be superior to inferno ammo in every way it has taken armor out in much fewer shots and killed enemies faster as well. the differance between a 10 round burst and 20 round burst that kills some one might not be that big of a deal to some people but for me it does. I'm spending less time on targets, spending less time out of cover, and spending less time in one place because im killing the enemies faster and moving on.



Though I will say that the "findings" in the vanguard forum have inspired me to do more indepth testing with the ammo types so I can prove or disprove them or even showcase weapon diffrences/shot location having an impact on theyre findings.



But until then I still stick by Tungsten ammo as being the better if not flat out the best ammo type in the game.



Oh and themaxzero Concusive Blast can be fired around cover and 9 time out of 10 even if it misses the target and hits the top of the cover they are using it will still knock them out of cover to be killed. and it does a fair bit of damage to barriers.

[Kaorunandrak]

apk117 wrote...

What's everyone's opinion on Warp Ammo vs. Armor Piercing? I'm thinking Warp because of the added versatility vs. Collectors, but the raw damage against health and armor of Armor Piercing is very nice.

Most on this thread have already said Ap ammo rather then warp ammo. using a Ar with AP ammo versus colector even in their barriers they die way faster. Dont know how but barriers dont really pose a problem while using AP ammo. shields and armor are the only issues ive found and soldier get Disrupter ammo for shields.

[Kurt M.]

Heightened Adrenaline Rush [4]
Concussive Shot [1]
Disruptor Ammo [4]
Incendiary Ammo [2]
Cryo Ammo [4]
Commando [4]
Slam [3]

This is in beta, though. I plan to drop Conc/Cryo in favor of Incendiary ammo and lvl 4 Slam (which I use a lot).