276 réponses à ce sujet

[Siven80]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/1067808

That link has Bioware confirming that all DOT effects do full dmg to armour,shields and barriers.

[Kaorunandrak]

ok but thats still only 60% damage versus 70% from AP ammo. Inferno rounds do 60% damage over 3 secs, so if it front loaded its still 60% against tungstens 70%. And then the dot comes into effect for health which then slows down hp death.... So how does this prove that inferno is better then Ap for taking out armor or mobs in general?



Inferno still has its organic secondary effect that we have already given it its due credit for, but with AP ammo it takes much less rounds to kill some one with just a health bar making the secondary effect pretty much worthless as the person is dead before the panic would be useful. Again this is for AR and Sniper soldiers.



Would still like to see confermation that every seperate "round" fired from a single shotgun burst reapplys the ammo effects. but even if it does that means it does the same with AP ammo as well once again making AP ammo the much more damageing ammo power.

[WillieStyle]

Kaorunandrak wrote...

ok but thats still only 60% damage versus 70% from AP ammo. Inferno rounds do 60% damage over 3 secs, so if it front loaded its still 60% against tungstens 70%. And then the dot comes into effect for health which then slows down hp death.... So how does this prove that inferno is better then Ap for taking out armor or mobs in general?

Inferno still has its organic secondary effect that we have already given it its due credit for, but with AP ammo it takes much less rounds to kill some one with just a health bar making the secondary effect pretty much worthless as the person is dead before the panic would be useful. Again this is for AR and Sniper soldiers.

Would still like to see confermation that every seperate "round" fired from a single shotgun burst reapplys the ammo effects. but even if it does that means it does the same with AP ammo as well once again making AP ammo the much more damageing ammo power.

I basically agree with you AP > Inferno.
But a counter argument would be that Inferno doesn't take up a bonus skill.

My counter to that counter argument is that active bonus skills aren't worth taking on a Soldier because Adrenaline Rush is too good to be put on cooldwon.

[Kurt M.]

Well, I couldn't wait to have the "Changing talent points" tech, so I "cheated" (coalesced compiled a personal .ini) a bit ^^



New (and final) setup:



Heightened Adrenaline Rush [4]

Concussive Shot [1]

Disruptor Ammo [4]

Incendiary Ammo [2] (0 really, since the extra 3 talent points I got "cheating" came from here).

Cryo Ammo [4]

Commando [4]

Slam [4] (the 3 talent points I needed to reach lvl 4 comes from the Incendiary Ammo ones).



I never use Inc. Ammo, and I don't understand why I need to spend 3 damn Talent points just to unlock Cryo ammo, so I don't consider it a cheat afterall.

[Kaorunandrak]

WillieStyle wrote...

Kaorunandrak wrote...

ok but thats still only 60% damage versus 70% from AP ammo. Inferno rounds do 60% damage over 3 secs, so if it front loaded its still 60% against tungstens 70%. And then the dot comes into effect for health which then slows down hp death.... So how does this prove that inferno is better then Ap for taking out armor or mobs in general?

Inferno still has its organic secondary effect that we have already given it its due credit for, but with AP ammo it takes much less rounds to kill some one with just a health bar making the secondary effect pretty much worthless as the person is dead before the panic would be useful. Again this is for AR and Sniper soldiers.

Would still like to see confermation that every seperate "round" fired from a single shotgun burst reapplys the ammo effects. but even if it does that means it does the same with AP ammo as well once again making AP ammo the much more damageing ammo power.

I basically agree with you AP > Inferno.
But a counter argument would be that Inferno doesn't take up a bonus skill.

My counter to that counter argument is that active bonus skills aren't worth taking on a Soldier because Adrenaline Rush is too good to be put on cooldwon.

personally I would agree with you as well. Thoughon vet and normal I do love me some Slam its just a fun power. But Like I said before on the harder difficulties I find it has a much less awesome zone. Miranda her bonuses and the team upgrade are what make it ok for her on harder dificulties IMO.

I just hope nothing I've said in this forum has come across like I'm trying to say AP Ammo or my build/style of play is the end all be all of anything and if you slot or think different your stupid and gimpy. Cause thats not my intent at all I'm just trying to give input from my own tests and expeirences for my favorite class for this awesome game and trying not to sound all preachy or like a droneing lecture happy teacher. Hopefully I'm not lol

[Kaorunandrak]

I've killed the thread bahz lol

[Shvabic]

I'm going for



Heightened AR [4]

Commando [4]

Tungsten Ammo [4]

Heavy Disruptor Ammo [4]

Heavy Concussive Shot [4]



I just want to maximize Damage. Disruptor is there for Shields. Concussive for Barriers. Heightened to get the most damage out of each bullett, although I haven't entirely made up my mind about this.

[Homebound]

Shvabic wrote...

I'm going for

Heightened AR [4]
Commando [4]
Tungsten Ammo [4]
Heavy Disruptor Ammo [4]
Heavy Concussive Shot [4]

I just want to maximize Damage. Disruptor is there for Shields. Concussive for Barriers. Heightened to get the most damage out of each bullett, although I haven't entirely made up my mind about this.

Warp Ammo does WAAY more damage than Concussive Shot.  At most, 1 shot takes out half an enemy's barriers I think.  While Warp Ammo, the shields drop within 1-1.6 seconds. In Normal anyways. Just so you know.

[Shvabic]

Yeah, but no Warp Ammo with Tungsten Ammo

[Kaorunandrak]

and tungsten ammo chews warp ammo NOM NOM NOM

[Turin_4]

Warp ammo gives a +50% weapon damage to barriers, armor, and health. Tungsten gives a +70% to health and armor. On Insanity getting those barriers down is important, but if you bring Thane, Miranda, or Samara along with you, or even two of them with you, you'll have handy dandy barrier and armor killers with you.

[Kaorunandrak]

or you can take jack and give her warp ammo or team warp ammo with the new shotty and takke AP ammo for your self and then you got 2 warps and then 1 Ap ammo for ultimate fire power oooooooooooooooooooooooover looooooooooooooad!!!! lol Im just being silly now

[matt654321]

Or you can use the Geth Pulse Rifle. People really don't give that gun enough credit.



I used this build on insanity and had absolutely no problem with any type of defense:



Hardened AR: 10

Disruptor Ammo: 10

Inferno Ammo: 1

Heavy Concussive Shot: 10 (didn't use this much)

Commando: 10

Tungsten Ammo: 10



Between the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Widow, I had absolutely everything covered.

[Turin_4]

Yeah, I was regretting that I couldn't change from Revenant to Widow when I replayed on Insanity, and discovered the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Revenant is better than the GPR, but not by a whole lot, I don't think-and that one-shot kill ability of the Widow would've been handy.

[Kaorunandrak]

yeah but see then id have to give up my REV and there no way I'm gonna do that I'll just stick with mah Garrus/legion and Miranda/jack/samarra team for tearing up the enemies. I dont like the geth rifle for two reasons the low damage and the just plain look of it. Looks like I'm holding a roach caccoon.

[Kaorunandrak]

Turin_4 wrote...

Yeah, I was regretting that I couldn't change from Revenant to Widow when I replayed on Insanity, and discovered the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Revenant is better than the GPR, but not by a whole lot, I don't think-and that one-shot kill ability of the Widow would've been handy.

my problem the widow is the lack of rounds for it. The GPR is a good gun but if you have the Disrupter rounds it kinda seems like a waste to me. But if its working for you then thats a great set up. THough have you tried the Avenger or the Vindicator instead of the GPR with the disrupter rounds?

[Urazz]

WillieStyle wrote...

Kaorunandrak wrote...

ok but thats still only 60% damage versus 70% from AP ammo. Inferno rounds do 60% damage over 3 secs, so if it front loaded its still 60% against tungstens 70%. And then the dot comes into effect for health which then slows down hp death.... So how does this prove that inferno is better then Ap for taking out armor or mobs in general?

Inferno still has its organic secondary effect that we have already given it its due credit for, but with AP ammo it takes much less rounds to kill some one with just a health bar making the secondary effect pretty much worthless as the person is dead before the panic would be useful. Again this is for AR and Sniper soldiers.

Would still like to see confermation that every seperate "round" fired from a single shotgun burst reapplys the ammo effects. but even if it does that means it does the same with AP ammo as well once again making AP ammo the much more damageing ammo power.

I basically agree with you AP > Inferno.
But a counter argument would be that Inferno doesn't take up a bonus skill.

My counter to that counter argument is that active bonus skills aren't worth taking on a Soldier because Adrenaline Rush is too good to be put on cooldwon.

If I get warp ammo, then I pretty much only use adrenaline rush.  But i only take warp ammo for when I'm doing insanity playthroughs.  Otherwise, I prefer AP ammo on the lower difficulty playthroughs.

If I have AP ammo instead, then I'll have maxed out Concussive shot for taking down biotic barriers/knocking down melee at range (husks, varren, etc.).  Otherwise, I use adrenaline rush most of the time.

[matt654321]

Kaorunandrak wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Yeah, I was regretting that I couldn't change from Revenant to Widow when I replayed on Insanity, and discovered the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Revenant is better than the GPR, but not by a whole lot, I don't think-and that one-shot kill ability of the Widow would've been handy.

my problem the widow is the lack of rounds for it. The GPR is a good gun but if you have the Disrupter rounds it kinda seems like a waste to me. But if its working for you then thats a great set up. THough have you tried the Avenger or the Vindicator instead of the GPR with the disrupter rounds?

Yes. Neither of them hold a candle to the Geth Pulse Rifle IMO (especially not the Avenger). Geth Pulse Rifle + Tungsten Ammo shreds any defense in seconds, making it much better all around than the Revenant.

In the build I posted, Disruptor Ammo is mostly filler (and you should max it last - do it in this order: AR, AP Ammo, Commando, Concussive Shot, Disruptor Ammo). It's great for all geth levels, but otherwise it's not necessary when you have GPR + Tungsten Ammo.

[blank1]

matt654321 wrote...

Kaorunandrak wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Yeah, I was regretting that I couldn't change from Revenant to Widow when I replayed on Insanity, and discovered the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Revenant is better than the GPR, but not by a whole lot, I don't think-and that one-shot kill ability of the Widow would've been handy.

my problem the widow is the lack of rounds for it. The GPR is a good gun but if you have the Disrupter rounds it kinda seems like a waste to me. But if its working for you then thats a great set up. THough have you tried the Avenger or the Vindicator instead of the GPR with the disrupter rounds?

Yes. Neither of them hold a candle to the Geth Pulse Rifle IMO (especially not the Avenger). Geth Pulse Rifle + Tungsten Ammo shreds any defense in seconds, making it much better all around than the Revenant.

In the build I posted, Disruptor Ammo is mostly filler (and you should max it last - do it in this order: AR, AP Ammo, Commando, Concussive Shot, Disruptor Ammo). It's great for all geth levels, but otherwise it's not necessary when you have GPR + Tungsten Ammo.

The Geth Pulse Rifle does the least amount of damage per shot of any of the assault rifles, by far.

the GPR being good is all in your head bro

[Kaorunandrak]

Lol thats not nice if it works for him it works for him lol. But yeah we basicly have the same Build just I use Tungsten on my REV and disrupter on my sniper. I use my squad mostly to handle the shields/barriers.



Though like I have said before now that I'm working my 4th insane play through now I still have not run into any problems versus barriers with my REV and Tung ammo. Shields are only a semi issue and get cut down fast between team mates and Disrupter rounds.



THough I have started to make use of my heavy pistol more now on this play through for some of the more hectic mishes. If you load it with DIsrupter rounds and fire quickly when your pinned you can overload almost every single persons weapon and mow them down with your REV or line up a few head shots with sniper rifle.



Just another friendly tip of getting the most use out of my build and similiar builds for those who have sent me messages or are interested. Because of this though I have given up the hand cannon for the first pistol since it holds more rounds. Not using it for stopping power just for weapon overloading remember that.

[Crackseed]

Carnifex is very under-used. That pistol is a friggin BEAST. I just wish it had a bit more ammo. But yeah, I make alot of use of the Carnifex when I want to pop heavy shots while moving between cover before I get to optimal Rev range.

After finishing my first Insanity playthrough [wee - I love the difficulty overall] with AP ammo and my beloved Revenant, I do think I'm going to swap to Heavy Concussive Shot. It's not feasible to rip down multiple barriers on the insanity mobs to have Concussive Blast CC them effectively versus the ridiculous punch of a Heavy Concussive is a sure-fire barrier smasher/CC knockout. Gotta love pumping CS into a half dead Abomination and watching the fireworks xD

Edit: Does anyone notice that "spare ammo" seems to bug? I'm wearing the spare ammo gloves and half the time I still only sit at 480 rounds on the Rev instead of 527. It's so weird and random.

Modifié par crackseed, 12 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[GlassRain]

hardened Adrenaline 4

Disrupt ammo 4

Inc ammo 4

Shock Trooper 4

Slam 4



See alot of people using AP ammo or a shield boost as their extra skill which makes really no sense to me. With hardened adrenaline your HP is your defense and with the boosts you can get it into the 600 range.



Barrier/GSB/Fortification: If you find yourself in a situation where your shield is popped and you are out in the open these might save you from death. However, if you are in this situation (and not on cooldown) why would you use a squishy shield boost instead of putting up adrenaline rush which could give you time to storm into cover, kill attacker or just makes you harder to kill (50% dmg reduction). Yeah, I played insanity with GSB and can count on one hand how many times I used it. Locking out my abilities for 12 seconds was more likely to get me killed than using adrenaline rush.



AP Ammo: This I just can't understand. 70% and a wasted power slot or 60% and the ability to make unarmored enemies panic? Lets review. 10% extra damage and a power slot vs halting regen and stunning unprotected enemies. Hrmm.. oh but GR, we are fighting bots! Right.. disruption ammo since we have a ton of free points anyway.



Slam: It might not be amazing or single shot enemies but being able to bring a crowd control ability to a class with zero is way more valuable than a few % more damage or the empty promise of extra protection. I'd even vote for energy drain or reave but I believe they have 6-9 second cooldowns. A 3 second cooldown for slam doesn't keep you from spamming adrenaline rush but still allows you to stop that charging krogan or husk.

[Turin_4]

Can Slam be used on enemies with barriers, shields, or armor still up? Or does it have to be down to health?



If the former, you might have a case. If the latter, you've simply got no case at all-you haven't really brought 'crowd control' to a class with none if you can only use it on enemies whose armor and shields/barrier are gone-they'll simply be dying so quickly anyway it doesn't make a point.



10% is hardly a 'few', either. I can see an argument for picking something other than Warp/AP ammo, but picking a power that can only be used on enemies with only Health? Every argument you made against picking GSB works even more against picking Slam. If your enemy is down to just health, you can either kill `em really quickly with an assault rifle, or use adrenaline rush to escape to safety if they're right on top of you?



As for having a 'ton of free points', that's a silly statement because pretty much everyone has points enough for maximized Disruptor ammo-it's just worth it, and it fills a gap nothing else does-shields.

[WillieStyle]

I've found that people are prone to "rounding" fallacies.
They treat 10% like it's 0%, and 90% like it's 100%.

10% more damage to armor and health isn't "just a bit more damage."
And a 3 sec cooldown on slam does keep you from spamming Adrenaline Rush (for 3 secs to be exact).
Crowd Controlling 1 defenseless enemy isn't worth it. Especially when you consider that AR crowd-controls AN ENTIRE ROOM by reducing their dps and movement speed by 50-70%.
Alternating Slam and Adrenaline rush will cut your adrenaline rush uptime by 33-50%. That's very significant. Slam isn't worth the cooldown. The only skill that might be worth it is Area Reave because it works against armor/barriers and is AoE.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 12 février 2010 - 01:49 .

[matt654321]

blank1 wrote...

matt654321 wrote...

Kaorunandrak wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Yeah, I was regretting that I couldn't change from Revenant to Widow when I replayed on Insanity, and discovered the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Revenant is better than the GPR, but not by a whole lot, I don't think-and that one-shot kill ability of the Widow would've been handy.

my problem the widow is the lack of rounds for it. The GPR is a good gun but if you have the Disrupter rounds it kinda seems like a waste to me. But if its working for you then thats a great set up. THough have you tried the Avenger or the Vindicator instead of the GPR with the disrupter rounds?

Yes. Neither of them hold a candle to the Geth Pulse Rifle IMO (especially not the Avenger). Geth Pulse Rifle + Tungsten Ammo shreds any defense in seconds, making it much better all around than the Revenant.

In the build I posted, Disruptor Ammo is mostly filler (and you should max it last - do it in this order: AR, AP Ammo, Commando, Concussive Shot, Disruptor Ammo). It's great for all geth levels, but otherwise it's not necessary when you have GPR + Tungsten Ammo.

The Geth Pulse Rifle does the least amount of damage per shot of any of the assault rifles, by far.

the GPR being good is all in your head bro

It also has the highest rate of fire (DPS = Damage per bullet * rate of fire). And I guess me beating insanity with it was also all in my head?

GPR is slightly worse than revenant, but not enough so as to justify not taking the widow. The combination of the two guns is absolutely devastating.