273 réponses à ce sujet

[Victor Wachter]

Wrapping up our series of dev questions on character classes, we now ask about the Mage. As we continue to plan for the future of the Dragon Age franchise, we're interested in hearing your feedback regarding the different classes.

In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Mage class. You can still comment in previous weeks' Warrior and Rogue topics. We'll continue the dev questions next week with all new topics.

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?



Be sure to answer the poll on Mage specializations as well!

Modifié par Victor Wachter, 06 février 2010 - 12:19 .

[urvashi]

I love the way the history of magic is treated in the story, and the dynamic set up between the Circle and the Chantry. That's really unique, and gives a lot of depth to playing a mage character.
What I dislike about playing mages is the clothes. There are three basic models, the Circle, Tevinter and Chasind styles, and the latter two share the ugly neckbrace collar with fur shawl bits. I'm not in love with the Circle style of mage outfit, but I'd rather that than the furry shoulders all the time. Unfortunately the best mage clothes are in the non-Circle styles. It would be great to have more variety, and at least a better upgrade of outfits in the Circle style, for Wynne if not for a PC mage.

My favorite specialization is Spirit Healer. Group Heal, Revive and Cleansing Aura are very useful.
I love how the Blood Mage specialization works in the story as illegal & taboo magic, but it does mean that for role playing reasons I only use it for mages who would have the personality to flout their society's taboos that way. I've only recently unlocked Blood Mage because until now I hadn't played a mage who would do what needs to be done to unlock it. In that playthrough, I hardly used any of the blood magic spells, though I did make a point of getting each one for completeness.
I don't use the other two at all, because when I play a mage, I really just want to cast spells, not melee combat as a warrior or animal. I keep telling myself I'll give Arcane Warrior a try, but everything I've read here suggests you really need to plan that ahead and pick the right spells, and I just haven't been interested enough to go through with it.
I'm not even remotely interested in shape shifting.

I love the four schools of magic. For my first mage I just went with the spells that seemed best, picking from all four schools. After that I decided to play four mages who would each specialize in one school only. I've done the Spirit school & Entropy school mages and have really enjoyed it. It made me use spells I might have otherwise ignored. I'm planning on doing a Primal school mage next and finally a Creation school.
I'd say the Spirit school is my favorite, then Entropy, Primal and Creation.

Modifié par urvashi, 06 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[Raycer X]

Here's my incredibly long, and whiny *itch fest of a list:

- Likes:

1. Acane Warrior, the concept of the Arcane Warrior, almost everything about the Arcane Warrior.
2. The concept of spell combos
- Dislikes:
1. Only 1 piece of equipment that is restricted to AWs, I mean, where's the others?
2. Arcane Mastery doesn't lead to casting spells while weilding melee weapons... The mage masters the arcane arts and still doesn't know how to cast spells while weilding any weapon? What kind of master is that?
3. Not seeing an ally's corpse light up when highlighted with the revive spell (forgot the name). I play the PS3 version so I don't have the luxory of being able to adjust camera distance like the PC players.
4. Shapeshifting. Nuff said.
5.  The funny looking headgear.
6.  Not enough spell combos (particularly with the fire line of spells).
7.  Earth line of spells are rather weak, Stonefist and Earthquake leave a lot (at least imo) to be desired. Rock armor is ok, and Petrify... I don't even want to say it.
8. Chain Lightning, too long to cast, not enough damage, and too long of a cooldown.
9. There are 3 single target spells from the Lightning, Cold, and Earth lines, but the Fire line has no single target spells... Totally no bueno.

Favorite specializations:
1. Arcane Warrior (Big surprise there , since the first 2 things I dislike are pretty much whining about some things about the AW.)
2. Blood Mage and Spirit Healer are tied

Loathed specialization:
... Do I really have to say it?? (Hint: #4 on dislike list)

Favorite Talent trees:
Telekinetic, Fire, Lightning, Cold, AW, Blood, SH, Glyphs, Debilitation, Hexes, Mana Alteration

Least Favorite trees:
Healing line (I have nothing against the spell "Heal," it's just the other 3 spells), Anti-Magic, Draining, Sleep, Summoning, Enhancements, Earth, and Shapeshifting

The End 

[jfrenchy]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

i like the effects and powers of the spells. i don't like their equipment. robes and hats aren't as neat looking as some armor sets

mage is wholly overpowered with powerful AOE spells that can be cast from very far away

blood magic and spirit healer are my favorites. shapeshifter is least favorite

entropy is my favorite tree, creation least favorite

[Rulian]

What do you like and dislike about the Mage?



Playing as the mage:

The mage is (relatively) more exciting than other classes because of the vast array of options you get to play with. More options in combat means more fun toys to play with. Unfortunately you only get lots of options at high level. It's a change from being spoiled by D&D where we get a lot of spells starting at low level. Roleplaying the character class feels barely skin deep due to taking metaclasses like the forbidden blood mage without hardly any notice by the story/game setting.



Playing against the mage:

Opponent mages add a great tactical element into battle but they all seem very much alike after awhile. It would be nice if we would get a left hook once in awhile to expect the unexpected and force decision making. For example, if I had 2 mages one would cast grease and the other fireball then which one do I target first?



Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?



Playing as the mage:

Strongest class in the game for sure. The addition of the spell status 'sleep' with stuns and knockdowns helps to balance the class. Nothing else to say that won't be said by someone else, especially the metaclasses.



Playing against the mage:

Most NPC boss mages have disgustingly sick HP numbers. Never once in the game do you encounter a group of 12 mages unlike a dozen warriors or rogues. Let's see more metaclass mages other than the forbidden blood mage please, especially the Arcane Warrior.



What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?



The Forbidden Blood mage is my favorite. Shape Shifter is my least favorite.



What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?



The Entrophy line in general is my favorite despite it being the weakest. The key is the versatility making it more fun than the others. After taking the primal/fire line I felt cheated as most enemies have resistance to heat unlike the cold or electrical line. The least favorite is Spirit-Death because almost nothing stacks including the final.

[Lord Phoebus]

Victor Wachter wrote...

• What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I like the power and flexibility that the mage has. With its talents it can really fill any role in a party and a few roles the other classes can't like crowd control and AoE damage. I dislike that mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than any other class in the game.

• Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

I'll start with the underpowered list. Not much is underpowered, the aggro generated by the hex spells is a bit over the top, those hexees can pull a target off a warrior with taunt and threaten. The damage scaling of the single target spells (arcane bolt, winter's grasp, stone fist, drain life, even heal) with spellpower could be a little higher. While most of the other spells scale well given that they have AOE effects, it would be nice to see the single target spells scale as 0.4 or .5 points of damage per point of spellpower instead of 0.3. Chain Lightning is also a little weak for a tier 4 spell. Crushing prison was fine as it was, I have no idea why it was nerfed in the last patch (force field I can understand, but CP was suitably potent for a 4th tier spell).

There are a lot of spells in this game that the enemy AI won't use against the PCs, I assume this is because it would be unfair for them to so. If it's unfair for the enemy to use these spells, they are overpowered. Mana Clash is one that just trivializes any battle with mages or abominations, granted the first two spells in that line are very weak, but this spell is just ridiculous. The spell combos are also a little overpowered, mages are strong enough as it is, but when these spells get cast they simply obliterate the opposition, could you imagine if the enemy mages started casting Storm of the Century or glyph explosion against the PC and his party.

Either mage crowd control is overpowered or the crowd control abilities of the other classes is underpowered. no other class can immobilize an opponent for over 10s with a single spell, either those spells need to be weakened, or Warriors and Rogues need knockout attacks. It would also be nice to see more enemy mages using Sleep, Blood Wound, Mass Paralysis and Petrify.

• What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Favorite would be Arcane Warrior, it's the only specialization in the game that changes the way a class is played as opposed to adding a few new tricks. My least favorite would be shapeshifter it just doesn't work.

• What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Favorite would be hex line, they're very useful spells. My least favorite would be heroic offense, defense, etc. line, there are better ways to spend spells.

[Bartholomeu]

Victor Wachter wrote...

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I like the versatility. You can be a front line character, or a back line character depending upon which spells and specializations you choose. 

I dislike:

The clothing is very limited with three models, though I do like the feathered shoulders on two of the three robe graphics. It adds an interesting primal or shamanistic touch.

The Shapeshifter Specialization is nearly useless. I've never played a Ranger, but it looks like all the shapeshift forms are just mirrors of the Ranger Pets minus a functional character. 

The Arcane Warrior is the real issue I have with mages. They're my favorite type of class, and I don't think DAO does them very well. They feel more like buffbots than anything else due to how poorly the magic and melee systems intertwine.

The inability of the Arcane Warrior to cast spells with a weapon drawn annoys me. I can understand how this might be from balance issues, but perhaps if they are wielding a single 1 handed sword/knife and no shield they should be able to cast freely, due to a free hand. 

I believe Arcane Warriors should have the fatigue cost scale based on the fatigue of the armor worn, as opposed to the majority of the fatigue coming from a static number. (For example wearing massive should have a massive penalty beyond its stock penalty, where leather should not have much more than normal.) It'd give more choices and weight of decisions on what to wear. Also, is combat magic supposed to have the 50 upkeep cost as well as the fatigue penalty? The Tool tip says nothing about upkeep.

As for spells I feel no particular pull towards a tree as a whole. I loved the Walking Bomb Spells. I hated the huge AoE Spells like Death Cloud. Cone of Cold is stupidly powerful. The hexes were useful. Increasing spell power via spell might did nothing for my attack power on my Arcane Warrior. Spell combinations were interesting. Would like to see more implemented.

I liked all Specializations except Shapeshifter. It just doesn't work.

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

I only have limited experience with this class from Micro managin Morrigan but I will do my best to give the useful feedback

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

Like

- The class seems well balanced. The mage is very powerful but is as fragile as glass

- Tons and tons of spells = win ^,^

Dislike

- A lot of people say the class is too powerful but I propose that it's not the class itself that is overpowered but the fact that there aren't enough dedicated anti-mage enemy units. As a result, it doesn't ever quite show that the Mage is trading durability for great power.If I had to suggest something, I'd suggest that cloaked enemies, like Shrieks, primary targets should be Mages and Archers, at least on higher difficulties anyway

- Like the Rogue, the Mage could use a better wardrobe

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Nothing seems overpowered. But Chain Lightning seems a bit underpowered in comparison to Blizzard or even Tempest that comes before it on the Lightning tree.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Favorite = Arcane Warrior. I just love the whole concept of this pecialization. I can't wait to use it

Least Favorite = Shapeshifter. It doesn't really seem all that useful. Spells are usually more valuable and enemies hardly get close enough to need the shapeshift forms.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Favorite talent trees so far have to be Cold and Lightning. I love having Morrigan cast both Blizzard and Tempest in the same area. I find it gives credibility to her "You will learn to fear me!" voiceover, lol.

Don't really have a least favorite tree.

[Theinen83]

I love the mage class. Some could argue that Arcane Warrior is overpowered, but it only truly comes into its own right around lv14. Before then, you tend to be quite squishy due to lack of dex to connect hits or dodge them. The few rare complaints I have about mage are as follows.



1. As stated above, more Arcane Warrior only gear. It can only be one total set of upgradeable armor if need be. Maybe just body armor? I just really want an Arcane Warrior in robes with armor over it lol.



2. SHAPESHIFTER. I honestly see no hope for this.



Everything else, was good. I don't complain about the lightning line because I know that unlike the other primal magic, lightning's potential damage is split between HP and mana/stamina drain. Though I would like a specialization that allows you to become a controlled abomination or be able to just summon demons. I know both of those are heavily forbidden, but so is blood magic. That's the only thing I truly desired for mage. If I get that, I'll keep putting my Arcane Warrior in massive armor and call it a night lol. I must've replayed the mage originlike 10 times trying to figure out if at a certain part I could become an abomination.

[dkjestrup]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?



The mage armor, is absolutely pathetic. And this is in comparison to the other armor in the game, which is also pathetic. The mage armor is beyond pathetic. It's pathetically pathetic. Cowls are the ugliest piece of ???? I've ever seen.



* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?



Underpowered:



The Spell line, above mana Clash. Why on earth would anyone want to waste their time in this line? Protect yourself from magic, versus the ability to OHKO nearly every mage or demon in the entire game. Mana Clash is also very cheap, and the cooldown isn't very long.



Shapeshifting. This is the worst game design I've seen. It's completely broken compared to the rest of magic. It has a long cast time, (seriously Bioware?!) which makes the whole tactical shifting between forms useless. In the fade, you shift to the Golem to quake + hurl, then you switch to the Spirit form to Crushing Prison, then to Flaming Man to fireball. Surely you have to admit that it says something really bad, when the Shapeshifting in the fade is 3 times more powerful than Shapeshifting in the actual game! The forms are really weak, don't get improve very much with higher spellpower, have a very limited amount of abilities... Shapeshifting is a cool idea, but executed wrong. Shapeshifting should be a school of its own, with a 4 talent branch for each form, adding stats, talents etc to the existing forms. It just isn't viable.



Overpowered:



Pretty much everything else. They have too much crowd control! The problem is the ability to "cherry pick" the best spells of each line. The way to fix it would be if every line was about 10 skills worth, with passive talents required to make the spells usable. For example, Fireball should start of doing mediocre damage. Then you get a passive that adds DoT, another that gives it a knock-down effect, and another that increases the AoE and the base damage. Spell trees should also branch. Also, every spell should have a cast time, (different length for different spells of course).



Also, Arcane Warrior tanks better than a warrior. Are you kidding me!? Someone who's trained their whole life in the use of arms is bested by a Mage who learnt how to channel magic into strength last week?!



* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?



Favourite: Arcane Warrior, Blood Mage and Spirit Healer. They're all really good.



Least Favourite: Shapeshifter, the worst part of the game outside the music.



* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?



Favourite: Glyphs, Mana Clash, Cold, Blood Magic



Least Favourite: The Spell Shield line, the Stinging Swarm Line, the Shapeshifting Line, the Heroic Line (just because Haste doesn't stack with Momentum, and the other spells should be either whole party buffs, or sustainables)

[Wicked 702]

A major concern I have is with the mage origin. I intended to roleplay a Dalish Elf Mage but have found that through my travels everyone assumes I am a City Elf. Obviously, I didn't choose either one at character creation (since Mage is different from either) so I am quite annoyed that the game defaults its responses to one side.

[LightPhoenix]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I like the variety of play-styles that the Mage offers.  If you want to be a balls-out blaster mage, you can do that and not sacrifice the controlling aspect of the Mage.  If you want to sneak around and drop glyphs, you can do that too.  Or, you can play a "cleric" and take all party buffs.

I love spell combos.  Shattering an enemy is incredibly satisfying.

It's hard to say if the Mage is over-powered or the other classes are underpowered, but there is a disparity there, and I'm not fond of that.  In fact, the Mage seems to have powers all over the place - some are terrible (Earthquake, Spell Wisp), some are quite overpowered (Crushing Prison, even post-nerf), and some in between.

Also, I really dislike that you're almost forced to take at least one healing spell.  Okay, you don't have to, but realistically most players are not going to be as hardcore as those on the boards here.

Finally, unlike the Warrior and Rogue acheivements, the Mage acheivements for all of the talents in a spell school suck.  That's for two reasons.  First, there's no benefit to mastering a school like there is a weapon style; every line in a school is independent of each other, and often the spells within a line are too.  You gain no benefit to doing so.  Second, the way the schools pan out, it's infinitely more wise to diversify, versus specialize.  There's no real need to max out more than one or two Primal spell lines, for example.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

As I said above, the Mage is all over the place.

In general, I think the Primal/Cold and Spirit/Force lines are somewhat overpowered.  Also, the Arcane Warrior is very overpowered (but more on that below).  Spirit Healer may be a bit as well.  I mentioned Earthquake as underpowered above, and Chain Lightning is as well.  Aside from Heal, the Creation/Heal line kind of sucks, and Creation/Magic isn't too hot either.  Also, Shapeshifter, though I don't think you guys find this any big surprise.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

I'm not a terrible fan of any of the Mage specializations, all for different reasons.

Shapeshifting is just terrible.  If it interacted with other spells, it might be useful.  However, the casting time makes it a liability in combat both melee to casting and vice versa.  The forms aren't overly powerful nor useful either.  If I wanted someone to go into melee, I'll just take a Warrior or Two-Weapon Rogue.  If it were more like the forms in the Fade, that would be a lot cooler.

Arcane Warrior is frankly overpowered, and I think that's why so many people like it.  Just taking the specialization for Combat Magic is overpowered, and there's almost no incentive not to.  Light and Medium armors don't ding your fatigue enough to really make a difference, and even Heavy armors are bearable with Lyrium Potions.

Spirit Healer is practically a necessity, for the same reason as Heal above.  Lifeward is a crummy ability, but Group Heal and Revival are incredibly useful, and come before Lifeward in the line.  Cleansing Aura doesn't have terribly great combat ability (IMO), but out of combat it's great for removing injuries with little cost.

Blood Magic is thematically a poor fit for the game.  There's no real "shades of grey" with blood magic - it is depicted as completely evil and corrupting from square one.  The skills aren't terribly great either, though BM has it's use with AW builds.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

My favorite talent tree is Power of Blood; the abilties are quite useful for the Mage versus the Rogue and Warrior.  Most of the Primal tree I like, and I think Creation/Heroism is a very nice tree that's easy to overlook.  Entropy/Hex is great for a debuffer, though Misdirection Hex is overpowered.

My least favorite would be the rest of the Creation tree, especially the Heal and Magic lines.  Glyphs are okay, but require a lot of positioning.

Modifié par LightPhoenix, 06 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[RangerSG]

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...

Dislike

- A lot of people say the class is too powerful but I propose that it's not the class itself that is overpowered but the fact that there aren't enough dedicated anti-mage enemy units. As a result, it doesn't ever quite show that the Mage is trading durability for great power.If I had to suggest something, I'd suggest that cloaked enemies, like Shrieks, primary targets should be Mages and Archers, at least on higher difficulties anyway

- Like the Rogue, the Mage could use a better wardrobe

I'll quote this because I think it states the situation with mages better than anything. The issue is not the power of the PC mage. The issue is that in a pitched battle, I can have my characters target enemy mages straight away, while my mage is only going to attract aggro once I start blowing things to cinders. Stealthed units being scripted to hunt mages, or archers being scripted to target mages first (just like mine do) would go a long way towards balancing the playing field. It would also make the heroic defense spell far more useful, since not having it might be the difference between survival and being caught by an arrow of slaying.

My chief gripe with mages is the aethetics. There are precious few decent looking robes and no decent looking head-gear. Frankly, I'd prefer it if all head-gear could be toggled "show/no-show" because most of it lacks any aesthetic value. Which is ironic given historically helms were often decorated, painted, or adorned for stylistic purposes. But that said, there are a few decent looking helms, all the cowls looks disastrous. None of them even look like a simple 'hood,' which would at least be tolerable. They all have that horrific doily look. The worst part is that in-game, the mages are said to be the most stylish, but you never see it.

I don't understand why Crushing Prison was nerfed. It is a tier 4 spell. That said, the least valuable tier 4 spell has to be Chain Lightning. If it's going to do it's current damage level, it and Tempest should swap places and it's casting time should be cut in half. There's no reason for CL to be a tier 4 spell with it's current casting and cool-down times, given the low damage output it has.

While I enjoy being able to cherry pick spells, I do think there should be more of a reward for mages who focus in one "school" than just an achievement. A significant bonus to spell-power, for instance. Or spell-resistance to enemy mages who attack via your specialized line.

I think all the specializations for magi are useful and fascinating...except shapeshifter, which is fascinating but ultimately not worth the investment. Making magic factor into your attack/damage when shifted, or maybe making you a more effective caster when shifted for a time in certain schools, would be useful.

[RangerSG]

Wicked 702 wrote...

A major concern I have is with the mage origin. I intended to roleplay a Dalish Elf Mage but have found that through my travels everyone assumes I am a City Elf. Obviously, I didn't choose either one at character creation (since Mage is different from either) so I am quite annoyed that the game defaults its responses to one side.

That's a question of lore. Dalish don't do magic the same way as Circle Mages do. There's been a number of discussions on that in the forum.

[Ahzrei]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

The Mage is by far my favorite class in the game. I love casters, always have. I like how any mage can pick up a heal spell. I don't like the Shapeshifting prestige, it just doesn't do any damage and 2 abilities doesn't make for much fun.



* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Two words. Walking Bomb. I love the spell and it's virulent upgrade to death but it is simply overpowered. There isn't a single-target spell in the game that can match it's raw damage output.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Arcane Warrior is my favorite. The lack of a really big single-target nuke makes the ability to melee respecfully absolutely vital. I always end up taking this.

My least favorite is shapeshifting. I'm not sure if it doesn't work properly, or if I simply don't know how to build one, but it they don't do much damage and have very few abilities.

Blood Magic is okay, but I don't like not being able to use the better abilities without having to pay life, and keeping blood magic up all the time wastes your entire mana bar. I'd be happier if it would just tap into my health when my mana bar is empty.

As for Spirit Healer, they're great to have around but I don't much enjoy controlling them.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Honestly, I like to mix and match. I use Virulent Walking Bomb on all of my mages though.

[WoodsDweller]

The tension between mages and the Chantry is a good literary device, but is too limiting for gameplay. Consider the six standard Origins - I can be a fighter or a rogue from five of them. Two of them are dwarf origins, so mage is precluded (that's a pretty good reason and I can live with that). As a mage I get one origin, period. BTW, I would happily pay to get a DLC with a mage origin for Dalish elves. Perhaps as we explore the world more, there will be additional roles for mages to play outside the Circle. Also, perhaps the grip of the Chantry/Templars will weaken as time goes on.

Blood mage was a nice specialization, but blood wound was the only really nice spell you get. I was disappointed in the lack of plot reaction to my doing blood magic. Nobody seems to notice or care.

Shape shifter was a nice plot thing for Morrigan, but seemed useless for gameplay.

None of the specializations were all that impressive. Maybe they aren't supposed to be. I would like to see several additional specializations and get another at levels 21, 28, 35, since the level cap is supposed to increase in the expansion.

I have to agree that the mage clothing is particularly ugly. The hats are period-appropriate, I suppose, but still ugly. They are fine for NPCs, but I would like the ability to get some better models for PC gear. We could also use some additional staff models (always a challenge to design an interesting rock-tied-to-a-stick).

Minor gripe: item description for a staff should tell me what elemental damage it does.

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

The like would obviously be the ability to do magic and create combo type spells. The dislike is most certainly the lack of decent armor/robes for the mages. I mean come on, those things are just lame, or so over the top, it's just ridiculous. The "Witches Robe". Holy jeeze cause the boobs are just going to fall right out of there. The mass paralyze is probably a little over powered considering you just throw that down and a battle is pretty much over already. I thought the spirit inflicting spells were a little weak. Overall I think the Shapeshifter specialization is completely useless. I have played through with 3 different mages and have yet to use it because I don't even find a use for it with Morrigan. Spirit Healer is good if you plan to not have Wynne, but if you do, it's a wasted specialization on your PC. Arcane Warrior and Blood Mage are where it's at. But my only gripe would be the Arcane "Warrior" has no REAL warrior talent tree. You just get to sub magic power for strength, and really, that's it. I'd much rather prefer to get access to some of the talent trees from the warrior side if I'm having an Arcane WARRIOR. I mean how bad ass would that be, mage running around with the shield tactics on and such. That would be where it's at.

[Lakmoots]

LIKE:

I love how the Mage has been handled as a concept. It is a "whole concept" magic user and contains all the elements of traditional wizards, clerics and psykers from other standard rpgs.

The way the Mage is handled in the world mythos is matched by the handling of its spells, which seem to run the gamut of concepts seen in games, movies and books. These are all tightened into very evocative groups.

In short, I would say the spell schools and how they are handeled is my favorite element - although it is lacking in labels on the console version. We have no Conjuror, Thaumaturgist or Elementalist, for instance.

DISLIKE:

There is an utter, utter, *utter* necessity to actually display an ATTACK score for the wizard, even though it is not their primary focus. If this is too much work to alter the display screen, then at least have it in the pop-up box for spellpower - scroll down and find out your attack score.

UNDER/OVER Powered

This is entirely subjective. What can I say? They are powerful at AoE and underpowered in melee combat... this is how it is supposed to be.

I cannot see a place where a mage is underpowered - they function as a concept in a similar way to D&D and other games such as Baldur's Gate.

They are "Glass Cannon" - incredibly strong, but incredibly fragile. Perfect, in my opinion.

SPECIALIZATIONS

Oooh... I have been playing a Fighter-Magic User since I could spell those words. Now, in a system such as D&D, they have had trouble implementing the concept in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition to match some of the literary examples of that concept.

The Arcane Warrior, however, makes a perfect translation that can be built in a number of ways, and is perhaps my favorite implementation of this core fantasy concept to date. Much Love!

The Blood Mage oozes concept and performs as a *very* powerful mage with its spells, but costs to get there. Great Stuff.

The Spirit Healer fits in with my original statement of how I enjoy the Mage class as a "whole concept". It is basically melding the traditional "medic" role of a cleric back into the fold of the wizard, and therefore enriches the concept and also stays on track with the representation of magic in the world.

Shapeshifter. Hmmm. Everything about this is cool, except it doesn't work. Period. Please fix this, it is non-functional as a caster and non-functional as a combat tool. How it was released in its current format is a confusion to all. The concept? Brilliant... the implementation... buh.

TALENT TREES

Easy. The Arcane Warrrior tree is my favorite... EXCEPT this: The Fade Shroud ability essentially ruins everything I like about the concept. Instead of a warrior-wizard concept, it over rules the Combat Magic ability and turns the character into a ghost. You cannot use them separately. This talent really needs to be an extra sustainable instead of something that over rules and then dampens the abilities of Combat Magic. Most players I know wonder around with Combat Magic on permanently, and most I have talked to avoid Fade Shroud because it ruins the look of the character visually. If it were a separate Sustainable, then we would all use it. But because it works to overwrite the original Talent, it becomes a loss.

For normal Mage trees, I would put my vote for both the The Spirit tree and Entropy tree. Rather than use a tired old "necromancy" style, the concepts have been heightened and split into abilities and schools that work in a more sophisticated way. This allows for so-called necromantic abilities in Entropy, and Animate Dead in Spirit. The use of so-called psychic abilities in Spirit also work very well, both as concept and abilities.

However, it also contains one of the worst failures for console players. There is no "Advanced Necromancy" ability because of the stupid decision to disallow console players to control their pets. Without this, there is little point in such a spell. Either elminate the spell combination or fix it. There have been occasional glitches where players have gained control of their pets, and we all know it is possible.

CONCLUSION

Thank You for your time...

FIX FADE SHROUD, and give me an ATTACK SCORE!

Much love

[Among Jaliana]

*** What do you like and dislike about the Mage?



I really dislike the clothes design. That really has to be improved, imho. I would love to see more styles, beside the Circle, Tevinter and Chasind. Same goes for the helmets. And I would like to see *cloth* tier gloves and boots, not leather :-))

I like the versatility of the class, the number of basic choices you get just by picking a couple of spells.



*** Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?



Overpowered: Primal school (based on what

Underpowered: Shapeshifting specialization, and I also find both Creation Enhancement and Entropy Sleep lines weaker than they should be, imho.



* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?



My favorite is the Arcane Warrior, but I highly dislike 2 things about them: lack of AW-only equipment (as already mentioned), and that it is basically for it's own. I already tried combining AW/BM, and it didn't turn out well. And the same thing especially applies to the AW/SS combination.

And I *really* dislike Shapeshifter specialization, because it takes a bit too long to jump from one shape to the other and the shapes aren't all that useful on the higher levels and/or later stages of the game.

Also, I think that each specialization (for all classes) should have 2 spell/skill lines, so, you know, they are more useful :-)



* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?



I always played as an Entropy specialist (it is the most similar to the Necromancy school from D&D), and I find some of the lower tree spells better use than the higher ones. For example, i more often use Paralyze, Vulnerability Hex and Drain Life, than the Mass Paralysis and Death Cloud.

[1varangian]

I like the lore on mages, templars and apostates. The overall magic system is well designed. The thing I find myself wondering is why spells have individual cooldowns. It's odd that after casting a spell you can't recast that particular spell but you can cast something more powerful. There could have been a universal casting cooldown depending on the tier of the spell cast. So that it would be possible to cast weaker spells in rapid succession but after casting something more powerful the mage would have to wait a bit longer to regain concentration to cast anything.

I'm not so sure about the staffs either, casting unlimited magic. I'd like to see mages fight with weapons too, in spirit of Morrigan from the Sacred Ashes trailer.

Underpowered:

-Durations on most spells are surprisingly short. I would like protective glyphs to last an entire battle for example, even if it means they would cost slightly more.
- Shapeshifter, tried it once on Morrigan and never bothered with it again. Losing spellcasting ability is a serious drawback thus shapeshifting should provide more powerful melee forms than Arcane warrior (see overpowered)

Overpowered:

- Amount of mana potions available in the OC, they make Willpower next to useless.
- Fast mana regeneration outside combat makes all combat feel very rinse and repeat, casting your most powerful spells in every fight without any considerations for saving power. Maybe more of a design decision than actually overpowered but nevertheless I would like to be forced to manage my resources more intelligently than spamming Storm of Century in every encounter. It just gets boring and the spells become less awesome with each casting.
- Arcane Warrior, they should have to invest in the physical stats to qualify for equipment instead of just needing magic like any other mage. They are overpowered. The ability to fight and cast at the same time should come at the cost of some spell power so that you would have to find the right balance between casting and fighting. Shapeshifters on the other hand should be the ones turning from one extreme to the other, from fragile mages into brutal melee monsters. The logic of battle mages and shapeshifters seems reversed and their power seems poorly balanced because of this.

Specializations:

I ended up picking no specialization for my mage. I like the concept of the Arcane Warrior the most but I would have enjoyed it more as a hybrid instead of just a normal Mage on steroids. I don't think they should be able to wear heavy armor and use the heaviest weapons with 10 Str. Future specialization wishlist: Illusionist, Summoner.

Talent trees:

Least favourite - Creation save for Glyphs. Altough Glyph of Neutralization would be a lot more useful if it offered AOE spell resistance instead of being used offensively. We have spirit spells for neutralizing enemy casters themselves far more efficiently.
Favourite - Spirit.
That said, there are useless spells in the first two lines of the Spirit spells. Mana Cleanse and Mana Clash should be combined into a single spell. The same with Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic Burst. The more powerful versions of these two spells could be achieved by combining them with Spell Might, leaving slots for new spells that would actually be useful. Again same with Walking bomb and Virulent walking bomb being too similar. One of those could have been something different and interesting.

Weakness and Disorient from the Entropy school seem to be pretty worthless. They should be more powerful or stackable by multiple castings with longer durations or something.

The lack of clothing options, simpler robes and proper hoods especially, is painfully evident.

Modifié par 1varangian, 06 février 2010 - 04:34 .

[Mirander]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
What do I like?  The ability to destroy enemies in various spectacular ways (to quote the Emperor in Episode III: "POWER!! UUNNLIMIITED... POWER!!!" ).  It's also great having a mana-based system, rather than DnD's memorization system; I find it more enjoyable.

As for dislikes, two things.  First of all, is the equipment appearances, as so many have already said.  Conehead helmets are the worst offenders.  On the robes front, it would've been nice if they had also used the Chantry robe model (with new skins, of course) for some items; it would've increased diversity, with minimal extra effort; and those robes don't look half-bad.  As for staves, the ones you get later in the game are nice, but the early ones are unappealing.  Between Dragon Age and Oblivion, I feel the need to ask what the deal is with developers feeling the need to make mage staves look like someone just picked a random tree branch off the forest floor?  On a lesser note, it'd be nice if gauntlets and boots would appear on your character when he's wearing a robe.

Second, I would've liked to see some non-combat utility spells.  Invisibility, scrying, teleportation (I know that one's refuted in the lore, I'm just using it as an example), stuff like that would've been nice to see.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
Underpowered: chain lightning comes to mind, and Shapeshifter of course.  Spirit Healers are fine on the surface, but one problem with them is that the Tactics System doesn't accommodate them as well as it should, with no real way to set them up to use mass heal or revive through tactics.

Overpowered: In a word (or two): crowd control.  It might be appropriate to do an across-the-board reduction of durations on those spells.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
To be honest, none of the specializations exactly blow my skirt up.  Don't get me wrong, they're fine mechanically (except Shapeshifter, but that's been covered), it's just that none of them really fit with the 'blaster mage' style I prefer (with the possible exception of Blood Mage, but I don't have a great deal of interest in the morally questionable specializations).  Hopefully this'll be something that's remedied in Awakening.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Favorite: Primal magic.  I loves me some make-go-boom sorcery.

Least Favorite: eh... probably Entropy.  Nothing mechanically wrong with it, it just isn't my cup of tea.

Modifié par Mirander, 06 février 2010 - 04:51 .

[Morroian]

Likes:
Most variety of any class and favourite class.
I reckon the power of mages relative to the world is about right.
The glyph line was a stroke of genius.

Dislikes:
As everybody is saying the robes and hats absolutely suck ass.
I dislike the look of the metal staves I prefer something like the look of Morrigan's original staff, that twisted rough looking staff.
Arcane Warrior is fantastic on paper and the rationale for it in the game is just right but the implementation was boring with no access to warrior talents.
Shapeshifter was poor it would have been fantastic if we could have kept the shapeshifting talents from the Fade. Those were the forms that would have made it interesting.
The lack of a real summoning spell line.
I would have liked a Dalish mage origina as well rather than just one from the circle.

Underpowered:
Shapeshifting
Crushing Prison was nerfed too much with the patch.
Chain lightning

Overpowered
Nothing really struck me as overpowered cause I like the uber spells.

Favourite specializations
Blood mage, spiritual healer, Arcane Warrio when used as a spellcaster

Least favourite specializations
Shapeshifter

Favourite talent trees
Glyph
Spiritual healing
Cold
Telekineses
Sleep
Hexes
I like some of death and mana alteration and blood mage but not all. In particular I like the walking bomb spells, Mana Clash and Blood Wound

Least favourite talent trees
Summoning
Anti magic
Dislike Chain lightnng due to it being underpowered.

Modifié par Morroian, 06 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[Burningwolf]

 Mages,How we love them.The Glass cannons.The Tank mages.All of them.
Across the board Mages are overpowered.Thier sheer ability to rely on *magic* stat alone.Once you know how to play a mage and manipulate magic,the game becomes several orders of magnatude easier.Lyrium potions serve to further the gap between a mage and the melee class's.

 
 Onto the specialties.
  Arcane warrior.An interesting twist adding even more overpoweredness.You get to use  Magic for str req's on armor and weapons.*tisk*

 Sprit healer.This one I really like.It seems balanced and fair for what it is.

 Shapeshifter.Um how exactly is this meant to be used? or rather why does this even exist.You turn your mage into a melee creature who may have one or two abilities.I could see for rp flavor.But this subclass borders on pointless.Its cool once for all of 30 seconds untill you see ...the animal forms really dont do much except nullify your casting ability.About as useless as Lyrium potions are useful.

 Blood mage. Haven't unlocked it so I wont comment.

 Single biggest unbalancing factor in the mage's favor is the pressence of the Lyrium potion.

[hexaligned]

I know I know, you have most likely heard it 11bajillinty times. Mana.... there needs to be a cap put on how many spells you can cast in any given battle. Not only does it trivialize combat, it trivializes the implemented stat system. It also makes one of the specilizatons (shape shifter) completely worthless from any thing other than a RP perspective. To me at least, it dosen't matter what ELSE you do to mages, this is the number one concern for not only them but the game in general.

As far as specs go.
shapeshifter : The cast time needs to be removed. I actually like the fact it scales off of STR, it forces you to build a more melee centered mage even when he's in caster form. Variety = good.

AW : Pretty fun all around, if anything their casting ability needs to be cut back a bit more. I think everyone agrees it's the most powerfull spec in the game, to the point of being unbalanced, maybe only allow them to cast buff/heal spells, with one or two offensive magic options.

SH and BM : I have the same issue with both, they don't feel like anything other than a normal mage really. You get some usefull spells, but BM in particular dosen't FEEL like a blood mage, making the first tier spell (I forget off the top of my head, is it blood magic? lol) the normal casting mode for the spec might help. As in, you always use life to fuel your spells, It's mostly because you have to wait untill a good 2/3 of the way through the game to really get anything that makes them stand apart from regular mages, and even then..it's only one or two spells, it's not like tactically or game mechanic wise anything really changes.

Edit :  And yes...mage hats....

Modifié par relhart, 08 février 2010 - 06:08 .