273 réponses à ce sujet

[blufire burner]

I love almost everything about my mage and i don't feel mages overpowered, i'm playing in "normal" difficulty level and my ass gets kicked every corner(i had to face the desire demon in the circle tower 8 times before success, but hey, i´m just an amateur, i suck as a RPG gamer and as a tactician also lol.



The mage hats are... well, ugly. The robes... where are they? i´m still wearing the same robe i got after the harrowing.



The twisted tree branch staves are ok, but i prefer the beauty metal-looking ones.



I still don't have an specialization, but i'm going for BM ad AW coz i NEED the power boost. But I hate the fact i´ll have to be on the dark side to get the real "offensive mage" specialization.



An for shape shifter, you hate arachnophobic people don't you?lol



I would love more elemental stuff.

[the_red_queen]

I agree that almost everything that can be said has been.

Except ... I like the hats. No, really I do. Though you do see too much of the Libertarian's Cowl if you do more than one mage playthrough and it's not very manly (my mages have all been girls). And whilst more variety would be great, I like the clothes. Though I'm unnerved by the fake breasts on the female Enchanter robe model - I know poor Morrigan is forced to go around with her chest half hanging out too, but at least she doesn't look quite as much as though she's had a shoddy boob job.

And because the weight of opinion here seems to be going the other way I want to join with the posters who think the "balance" of the mage is fine the way it is. I tried to do my first playthrough on normal but had to switch to easy for some battles. A few playthroughs later, when I've about done with playing the original campaign anyway, I'm just starting to find nightmare quite easy. I tend to pick spells and even tactics for roleplay reasons, have just one mage in my party and control my main character with other party members working automatically on tactics for 90% of the time and have absolutely no interest in solo-ing, so I can understand how minmaxers who like to micromanage could find the game too easy and people who like to solo might find rogues and warriors underpowered compared to a mage. It's just that if the game had been balanced to suit them, I'd have got less enjoyment from it. From a lore perspective it makes sense that you make life hard for yourself if you don't have at least one mage in your party and that taking more than one mage starts making life much simpler. And whilst lore can't always trump gameplay, I think DA:O has got the balance pretty much right. (On a side note, I personally find the rogue and warrior fine as they are too and wouldn't want to see them more powerful.)

That said, I largely agree with the comments here about specific overpowered/underpowered spells and would be happy to see, eg, Mana Clash, SotC, Cone of Cold and, though I love it, Blood Wound toned down in some way. And of course Shapeshifter needs work - I like the idea enough that I'd probably play it if the casting time for changes was made instantaneous (with a long cooldown for each shape to balance) even without any further tweaks.

One final point. I'm not sure I agree with the posters who say that there should be more in-game consequences to being a blood mage. Beyond a conversation with a couple of companions likely to have views on this anyway. Given your character is already public enemy #1 and presumably doesn't go round screaming "A blood sacrifice, for power" so outside your circle of companions any rumours of blood magic are probably no worse or more believable than other "slanders" against the Wardens, further reaction on the part of NPCs around the world would seem excessive. If you're playing an evil blood mage, then you get the consequences from being evil. If you're a good blood mage, then I think it's fine to assume you're very discreet about what you are and thus avoid the bad consequences. I know where people are coming from: the lore is so rich that there is the potential for some really great content, I just can't see how it could be done justice without significant additional development that it would be hard to justify given its limited applicability, and it would be awful if it were done in a quick and dirty way.

[Serenade]

Ah, the mage. Probably the most powerful class in the game, yet so fragile. I like to call them glasscannon.

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I dislike that some spells take to long time to use. Like healing. If i want a healer to use healing when the health is on 25%, my character can easily die since the casting time is to slow.

I like most of the spells. Good variety. Except healing.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

The Arcane warrior is overpowered as hell.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

My least favorite must be the healer. Slow casting time for a specialization that needs good casting time. And for the most of the spells you cannot use tacticts on, or its really hard to make a decent one.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I wouldnt actually call the skillsystem a "tree", but ok:
Primal is good.

[draxynnus]

Is it really the casting time that's your problem with healing? The casting time for healing spells is actually the fastest in my experience - one second. Requires some anticipation to use at times, but it's reasonable that it won't be instant and there are other things you can do to slow down the rate at which a health bar drops when under heavy attack. The problem I've noticed is that spellcasters left on tactics for healing have a tendency to dither around doing other things despite the healing trigger coming up and being first in the tactics block.

Modifié par draxynnus, 23 février 2010 - 01:11 .

[Dansayshi]

Shapeshifting needs a buff.



Personally id just prefer 3 talent trees for a mage tho, Healing, damage and support / control.

Right now theirs just too much choice, especially when you can just pick up 10 spells and not bother with the rest.



Best specialisation is the arcane warrior, simply for the defensive buff.



Ill have to come back and give more details and ofc, in the proper format.

[sami jo]

With all the emhasis story-wise on how mages attract the attention of demons , it seems odd that the mage class doesn't seem to do so. That could address some of the "balance" issues that people keep harping on. If mages were more prone to extra attacks by demons, particularly after the use of overly powerful spells, it would make sense to use them more carefully and fit with the story better.

On a side note, it seems really odd that the PC, who may not even be a mage, Sten, and Morrigan all realize that the fade in the Circle Tower is not real; but Wynne, the enchantress who is up for senior enchanter, does not.

[savagesparrow]

So first off, I loooved the mage class. I love the lore and the super heavy burdens the mages have to carry, and I love how the NPCs react to you walking around. I played as Spirit Healer for the most part, and then had Morrigan spec'd to be debuffer and damager. I think Crushing Prison is probably my most favorite spell, as it's super awesome to use on enemies that trash talk you (like the dwarves at the Provings), because you literally just stand and laugh as they slowly die. Justice! But I also really like the spell combos--its cool that you get extra rewards for bringing some spells to tier 4. And I actually kinda liked the design for the Tevinter robes--they at least made my character look kinda cute.

Dislikes...well, as everyone else has been saying, it'd be nice if there was more variety for mage armor, specifically with the damn hats. I mean, for the maker's sake how can you respect a leader wearing a hat that looks like a half-dead rooster?. And though this is silly, it'd be nice if my girl mage could wear an outfit that was a little...sexier? I mean, how can she hope to compete for the men in the camp when Morrigan's letting it all hang out? XD

Also shapeshifter...yeah. Had Morrigan try it once, got slaughtered, reloaded my save. It was sad.

And I agree that it'd be interesting if the demons were more likely to get pulled by mage spells. It =is= an overpowered class, especially when compared to the others. Or maybe if there were a few enemies that were resistant to magic? Or buff up Templar spells so when you fight them the mages have something to actually be afraid of?

Also, the healing line, after heal, got kinda lame. Mass Rejuvination was ok, but stopped mattering once you got your Warriors equipped with stamina-regen gear and you had the cash to craft as many lyrium potions as you needed. Spirit healer by comparison is amazing though. Only spell I didn't really use that much was the healing aura, since I tended to need all my MP for other things.

As a side note, though I never got a chance to play blood mage, I've heard other people saying that there's no real outrage when you become a blood mage. In fact, you can apparently even make Wynne specialize in blood magic, which just seems...weird! And while I get that NPCs might not necessarily know you're a blood mage, it'd be cool if your party memebers had something to say about it, since I'd think they'd notice that sort of thing in battle...

I guess I liked the Primal group the best, but I kinda mixed and matched everything, so I can't really say for sure what my favorite other groups were (for instance, like I said above--loved the crushing prison spell, but that was in the group that focused on mana control or whatever, and I never really cared to learn any of those).

Specilizations...Spirit Healer and Arcane Warrior. Healer because its super necessary and arcane warrior because as others have pointed out, their lore is awesome. Haven't played blood mage, and shapeshifter was just... *Sigh* There just aren't really as many bonuses as of yet to make it worthwhile for me to give up my awesome spells.

[Martris]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

-I like the fact that there are a million ways to lvl a mage with the amount of spells and specialisations.

-I really dont like the lack of uniqe equipment and weapons. every hats the same(ugly as hell) and every robe is the same jsut different colors

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

-I thought everything was pretty well balanced, its just that if you knew how to work a mage and all the spells you could demolish everything in the game

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

-Arcane warrior is by far the greatest. they are to good to mention everything. you can tank, crowd control, and be friggin awsome

-I actually like shapeshifter. Yah thats right. But they could have made it alot better by having sustained spells continued and reducing casting time by ALOT

[kayapo]

I'm sure a lot of what I could say has been said over these many pages.

Maybe even this has been said too, but one of the things I would change about the mage class is staves being an ranged weapon.

It is unbalanced and simply not fun for mages to just sit there and fire unresistable, unmissable shots. Making spells redundant unless they are AOE, making archers reduntant and making just about everything except maybe the tank, redundant.

In D&D mages without spells are weak and fragile. In DOA mages without spells are very capable long range nukers. Not fun and most of all very unbalanced.

[PSRdirector]

Shapeshifter to me, is crap,. they just dont seem very good or useful, and bloodmage is a bit challanging to use I think. Seems i really only like spirit healer (havnt proberly tried arcane warrior). I would like to see a more combat focused specialization that was a ranged sniper like deal.



Also would like to be able to do more with them, like join the mage collective would be fun. Also give them outfits that look more different from each other would be nice.



hmm, A familier would be kinda cool.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I was thinking the other day about why I like playing mages in DA and it hit me. Mages take the most micromanagement. While every class benefits from hands on control the fact is that most of them can have tactics set and be just fine. That’s not true for most mage builds.



I suspect that there are several reasons for this.



1. Mages have few passive spells. They have a huge number of active spells many of which are situational.



2. Many attack spells do friendly fire damage. This means that you have to control placement carefully. The default tactics magnify this since they don’t give you a good way to target clustered foes where NO party member is present.



3. Mana potions … in addition to balance stuff these potions mean that mages have “something special” to do all combat long if needed.



What usually ends up happening to me is that I frequently end up spending more time controlling my party mages than my own main character if the latter is a warrior or rogue.

[Vaylemn]

it is not that mages are overpowered, but compared to other classes they are.

So in other words, the other classes are underpowered IMO, such useless skills they have...literally, I don't even use any active archery skills except for arrow of slaying or scattering shot, unless I am bored and decide to toy with the enemies.



I haven't played a warrior thoroughly to judge if they have anymore of useless skills, but from what I have seen on the talent trees, I don't think it would equal the mages'.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

^ Appearances can be deceptive. Start 3 or so games, 1 with a mage, 1 with a warrior, & 1 with a Rogue. Then play though the areas one at a time trying as much as possible to keep things the same between games (compainions, gear on them, etc.) with the main difference being the player Warden.



Doing that gave me a far greater appriciation of how good DPS is and how good both Warriors and Rogues are at that. Mages do get spiffy control and some flashy stuff but they do have their weaknesses as well. Some areas / fights are actually harder with a mage PC.

[Ralnith]

True, that may be a reason why mage appears overpowered. I think the class is well balanced aside from a few already mentioned spells, but the other classes are often really, I'd say "overboring".



For example, my DW warrior has all DW talents, all warrior talents and both champion and berserker lines full (once I have all DW talents, Death Blow and specialization stuff there is nothing more I need so I just put points into whatever might eventually be useful). So that means I have spent 28 points for different warrior talents.

Of those 28 talents 13 are passive. Out of the remaining 15 active talents 6 are sustainable abilities and only 3 of them (Momentum, Rally, Berserk) I actually use. Since there is no notable drawback to sustainables, that means they are active at all times. That leaves me with a total of 9 activated talents I could use in combat. Of them I use only 5 (Riposte, Punisher, Dual Weapon Sweep, Whirlwind, War Cry).



So, summarized: 28 points spent on warrior talents gave me 5 talents I actively used in combat. With my mage I wished I could have an additional action bar before I even left Lothering.



Of course, mages sometimes have to pick redundant stuff to get the good spells too, but unless you take the 2 useless passives in the Arcane tree or the filler-passives in the AW spec-tree every point you spend gives you something new to play with. So it is very likely that mages seem overpowered because players spend more time micromanaging them instead of playing the other classes because they just lack the depth to be really comparable.

[Tunshar]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
I really like the story and the versatility. Want to be a healer? Be a mage. Want to do damage? Be a mage. Want to control enemies? Be a mage. I have always been a mage in every RPG i've played but it's never been this diverse before. I really, really like that you can dabble in a lot of different schools without being forced - as some have suggested - to take all tier 1 primal spells before being able to take a tier 2 spell. That would severely lessen the fun and replay value for me.

I dislike the lack of gear. Sure, an Arcane Warrior can wear armour and wield a sword but I don't want that even when I use the spec. I want nice robes, staves, hoods and rings. Lots and lots of them. Currently there are just too few mage-specific items. Gief moar l00t.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
Overpowered? Possibly mana clash. Casters die instantly when I cast this and since it's so good I can't help but use it. The Arcane Warrior spec has been mentioned many times as being overpowered but I don't know. Maybe that's beacuse I don't really take advantage of all it's benefits. I have yet to try out cone of cold.

Underpowered: The hex-line. Against elites or lower I don't need to use them and against bosses almost always resist them. I'd much prefer if they were a little weaker but could actually be used when it matters. Also I think the mages need some single target damage. Most of the spells are AoE that can hurt you party and against bosses I'm often reduced to just hexing (which is resisted), healing and throwing Arcane Bolt when it's off CD since I haven't tried Crushing Prison either pre or post nerf. Mages could do with a few more single target damage spells for boss fights - possibly at the expense of AoE or CC but preferrably in addition.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
Blood Mage and Spirit Healer are my most favourite specializations. Both are incredubly versatile and fun to play. Arcane Warrior I took but never got the hang of and I dislike the idea of mages wearing armour and fighting with swords. You're massive, dangerous energy wrapped in a wet tissue. Act accordingly! Shapeshifter I've only tried with Morrigan and it was underwhelming.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Favourites: Almost too many to mention but Spirit, Entropy and Creation are all very fun. Primal I'm not so fond of, especially since Fire, Cold and Electrical seem to be redundant. Apart from spell combos you could easily do away with two of the three lines and replace them with new spells. The default line - Arcane - is meh. Staff Focus for three points? Please.

Modifié par Tunshar, 25 février 2010 - 12:14 .

[draxynnus]

Tunshar wrote...

Underpowered: The hex-line. Against elites or lower I don't need to use them and against bosses almost always resist them. I'd much prefer if they were a little weaker but could actually be used when it matters. Also I think the mages need some single target damage. Most of the spells are AoE that can hurt you party and against bosses I'm often reduced to just hexing (which is resisted), healing and throwing Arcane Bolt when it's off CD since I haven't tried Crushing Prison either pre or post nerf. Mages could do with a few more single target damage spells for boss fights - possibly at the expense of AoE or CC but preferrably in addition.

Lightning, Winter's Grasp, Drain Life.

However, in such situations I've generally found it's best to set the mages on healing and buffing duty (and maybe the odd attempt at getting a potent hex in) - buffing the rest of the party is an effective way of dealing damage to a single target. The single-target damage spells, I find, are often more useful for spiking down a target than for sustained damage.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

I'm on hard difficulty by default, now, and the hexes still usually land on key targets on my entropy mage. true that the single target spells are more for burst damage than sustained, but that's usually how mages are played / designed anyway.



if you know lightning / drain life / winter's grasp / hell, stonefist / etc than you can usually just cycle through 3 or 4 them for sustained single target dps, maybe with a staff bolt in there. works for me, personally. does eat mana...and curse of mortality / crushing prison after a vul. hex sticking can be your single target dps as well.



I disagree with you on primal, though. the cold spells can freeze your enemies, giving you control and a touch of extra time against them. the lightning spells drain mana / stamina ? of whoever they hit, so those mages / ability happy toons don't have as much to work with (this could more pronounced in my opinion). fire seems to do the most damage, and has the most AoE with lightning. imo earth could use a boost, though. it does give you more knockdown / interrupt kinda stuff however.

[draxynnus]

Stonefist! I knew I'd forgotten one!

[Sir Caradoc]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I like the mythology surrounding mages and magic. I love the mage storyline where you are put in a test right from the begining..whether you can survive against demons. The whole religion vs magic theme is very Intruiging. You really feel opressed when nearly the whole world thinks you as a cursed because of your birth gift. The fact that most mages are hunted down as apostates if they fail to submit to the chantry laws truly creates a great roleplaying setting because you can easily justify going against blood magic or turn against circle&chantry. 

I dislike that using blood magic doesn't seem cause many consequences. I think it should be a burden as much as it increases your potential. Wynne, leliana and other good hearted companions should really despise you for that chose constantly..I know that wynne can confront you about the issue, but it can be easily avoided. I feel that you should make blood magic even more powerfull school but at the same cause more negative consequences incase you strike deals with demons. Chantry should send templars to hunt you down because of your dark ways . Generally speaking I was looking forward more special encounters with demons since mages are supposed to atract them with their sole presence. Finally I really dislike the mages clothing. Basic robe design is so dull and hats are plain horrible.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Underpowered: the staff combat seems kinda dull. I feel that mages staff should serve a bigger function to him. It should be more personal thing and really influence on what sort of mage he is. How about adding a whole talent tree governing staff?

Overpowered. Well some spell combinations obviously, but also few spell effects that don't seem to get resisted at all (mana clash, ice lance etc).

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Blood magic for it's roleplaying quality and Arcane warrior for the fun gameplay, although I hated how you had to put away your weapon while casting certain spells. Spirit healer was kinda nice too and I liked how it was supposed to be like the opposite for blood magic. The lore behind shape shifting was  inspiring but gameplay sucked.

Modifié par Sir Caradoc, 10 mars 2010 - 01:56 .

[asaiasai]

I have 11 characters and 4 of them are mages, first i would like to say that the mage class is easily my favorite class to play, from the origin story to the combat the mage rules. I would have to agree with quite a few folks on the rather limited clothing styles and clothing buff options for the mage.



I have found the mage class to be probably the most flexible class in the game, dps or heals in one package is probably IMHO what makes the mage class so strong. Alot of folks have said that the AoE spells are OP and i do not totally agree, while they are strong spells sure thier limitation is that they require preparation and planning to use effectivly. I really like how they can be stacked like a tempest over a blizzard, or inferno on a quake, used in this fashion they work like i envision this type of mage build to work, as a long range artillery piece. They can also be used as an area denial spell where you have the luxury of forcing the enemy to march through the stacked spells in an attempt to attack the party. I do agree that the mage needs some sort of single target fire spell but i would not like to give up inferno or fireball to get it. If that would be the case i would rather keep the spells i currently have. Maybe something like an immolation spell where you light a single target on fire to produce a damage over time effect, instead of the cone of flame spell which is pretty much useless.



I never really found an enjoyable way to use the shapeshifter tree and from what i have read most of the responders here did not either. That is not saying it is completely with out merit, but it does need considerable tweaking, to make it enjoyable. I think it would require a few more special attack options while in animal form but as they kind of have to fall into the melee attack mode i really have nothing to offer. It definatly looks cooler in the trailer video than in actual use, trying to catch that coolness while in actual game play is probably the hardest task to do. good luck .



All in all though i think the mage is the most fun class to play from a perspective of kick ass and chew bubble gum point of view. Death has an atrocious wardrobe and the attitude to match it, make fun of my bath robe and stick and ill roast you alive with a thought. What is not to like about that.



Asai

[Dash Dylan]

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?[quote]

I liked the wide variety of powers. I hated the the problems with the power tree to get the useful powers.

N/A

My favorite and least favorite was the Arcane Warrior I loved the abilty to were armor without attribute points to strength I disliked that I really had no way to fight with the the wepons that was really effective and I had put away the weapons to cast my spells.

My favorite talent trees were entropy and spirit. I didn't like creation really at all.

[Silas7]

I'm going to Necro this thread and say, WTH no bloodmage or arcane warrior in DA II?!