273 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaulen]

This is off topic.....but with how powerful mages get at higher levels in-game, with the ability to single-handedly wipe out entire mobs with a couple of spell casts.....and from a distance no less.



just HOW did Cailin lose at Ostegar???? Where were the mages??? They slung arrows at the horde, threw dogs and men to the grinder, but nowhere in that battle scene was there an indication of sleep/horror/freeze/earthquake etc (or any magic at all) used......



Just wondering if I totally missed magic in the battle, or if they didn't use the mages at all, major tactical blunder if you ask me. A handful of mages at decent levels should have been able to handle the horde easily.

[7th_Phoenix]

Jaulen wrote...

This is off topic.....but with how powerful mages get at higher levels in-game, with the ability to single-handedly wipe out entire mobs with a couple of spell casts.....and from a distance no less.

just HOW did Cailin lose at Ostegar???? Where were the mages??? They slung arrows at the horde, threw dogs and men to the grinder, but nowhere in that battle scene was there an indication of sleep/horror/freeze/earthquake etc (or any magic at all) used......

Just wondering if I totally missed magic in the battle, or if they didn't use the mages at all, major tactical blunder if you ask me. A handful of mages at decent levels should have been able to handle the horde easily.

They had mages at the Battle of Ostagar but only a few because the Chantry doesn't trust them enough to use their abilities outside of the Circle of Magi. Ironic because more mages might have made a difference in the outcome of the battle considering their skill.

[Spekdah]

Likes

* Talent trees, great variation

* Walking bomb series was the best, very inventive DoT!

* Spell combos

Dislike

* Specialisations, not enough of them. Shapeshifter underpowered and is another melee spec like AW. Only non-melee specs were healer or blood magic. I found myself liking none. Maybe a summoner line, summon elementals etc.

* Enemy spell AI, could do with beefing up. Nice if enemy mages used CC to break up your group and focus fire.

[draxynnus]

Zecele wrote...

Overpowered:
Spells need to either be crowd control (CC) or damage not both.  Crushing prison is a main offender.  It's damage is sick enough as it is but it also removes the target from combat AND still allows others to beat on it.  Crushing prison getting cast on a character that is taking any kind of incoming fire is an almost guaranteed death sentence.  On the flip side being able to fling that spell at an enemy mage can take a decently hard fight and turn it into cake.

Wintersgrasp is another good example.  It shouldn't freeze you solid on top of damage done.  At most it should de-buff you with a movement speed penalty or somethign similar.  Force field is a much better example of what I consider a balanced spell.  It works as CC but does no damage and you also can't damage the target.  That being said....

That strikes me as a a little...one-dimensional. No crowd control on a damaging spell? That strikes me as having the potential to make the damaging spells a bit bland if they don't have any secondary effects at all. Winter's Grasp, as I've said before, seems to be in the right space now - the slowdown makes it more interesting than just being "Arcane Missile that does cold damage", but I'd guess 95% of the time I use it it's the damage I'm actually looking for. Cone of Cold, as has already been discussed, is probably too powerful - I'd probably be inclined to reduce the duration down to that of Winter's Grasp.

And...no damage on a crowd control whatsoever? Blizzard is primarily a CC spell - the damage it actually does is fairly tokenistic (and this is probably a good thing), but it'd be crazy for it not to do any damage at all. Regarding Crushing Prison - it's a top-tier spell that only CCs a single target. It needs something to show why it's a top-tier spell when Paralyse and Glyph of Paralysis are not.

nub5 wrote...

Lack of counterspelling combos.  Example would be enemy wizard cast inferno on the party.  In response the mage cast blizzard on the party which cancels inferno and blizzard spells.

    Inability to stack enchantments upon a weapons from the same mage.

You kind of have the first point already - Blizzard grants an extra 50% fire resistance, which will drop the damage you take from Inferno substantially. I suspect what you had in mind is more of a "the two cancel each other out completely" thing, though, right?

The inability to stack enhancements from the same mage seems like it's a balance thing. Now, unless your party is filled with Arcane Warriors, you need to strike a balance between the number of characters sustaining enhancements and those using them - you can have all three going with only one character taking advantage, or you could have three characters taking advantage of one. Having three characters able to take advantage of three enhancements strikes me as a fast way to have a lot of damage add up.

[hardvice]

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

This is off topic.....but with how powerful mages get at higher levels in-game, with the ability to single-handedly wipe out entire mobs with a couple of spell casts.....and from a distance no less.

just HOW did Cailin lose at Ostegar???? Where were the mages??? They slung arrows at the horde, threw dogs and men to the grinder, but nowhere in that battle scene was there an indication of sleep/horror/freeze/earthquake etc (or any magic at all) used......

Just wondering if I totally missed magic in the battle, or if they didn't use the mages at all, major tactical blunder if you ask me. A handful of mages at decent levels should have been able to handle the horde easily.

They had mages at the Battle of Ostagar but only a few because the Chantry doesn't trust them enough to use their abilities outside of the Circle of Magi. Ironic because more mages might have made a difference in the outcome of the battle considering their skill.

Plus, the Darkspawn have mages, too.

[Theinen83]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Theinen83 wrote...

It's a choice to play that way. If the game is so easy, then obviously it's not forcing you to play that way. It's a single player game. So you're not competing for rewards or spots in parties with other players who play that way. Stop choosing to play the game in a cheap way and the game won't be cheap. Some moves won't be so "overpowered". It's nothing more than the players doing it to themselves. Let's use this opportunity to point out problems or issues we have with the game that we would like solved, rather than complaining because we've minmaxed and made the game far too easy. You don't HAVE to cast Storm of the Century at every encounter, y'know.

Bioware put those moves in the game and didn't program the enemy to use them against the player ipso facto they knew these abilities were overpowered.  If you're trying to play the game tactically, you're going to use the best tactics available to you in every battle, doing any less is an anathema to that mind set.  Unfortunately in this game, playing that way completely trivializes the highest difficulty setting which is supposed to be a challenge.  They should either weaken these abilities or make the enemy use them on the higher difficulty levels.     A player not using these abilities would be like the US not using air support when fighting in Afghanistan because their enemy doesn't have air support.   Don't penalize the players who want to play to their best because you're happy to limit yourself.  Not everyone wants to be forced to play like Harrison Bergeron to have a challenge.

Really... I have to ask. Did you just read that ONE part? It seems like you did. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who like to blast everything and compete with your party members for damage or the such. Or maybe just brag to yourself.

I was saying the problem isn't with the mage itself. The problem is with enemy AI. And in no way did I say you have to play at a handicap. It's simple. If you KNOW one particular spell/combo can wipe out every little thing in your path, and that becomes boring to you... then stop doing that combo. Really, I thought that was an obvious thing. I didn't say don't cast spells at all but c'mon on, if you bring out your biggest. baddest guns on every encounter . Big or small, boss or rank and file, what do you expect to happen? You're cheating yourself out of the experience. Not everyone likes to play like that.

There are people who need that advantage. There are some who don't use them at all. Bioware took the different ways people would choose to play the game, or so I thought, and tried to make sure that everyone could enjoy it. Whether you want to play the best for optimal damage at each fight or not, that's up to you. That's your choice. It's your choice to sit there and spam the same spells over and over, again and again. That doesn't make it overpowered. You're using it in a cheap way.

What? Would you rather that Bioware takes away your ability to use it, or cut back on it's effectiveness until it's not worth using at all? How would that be different from you just stop spamming the same exact thing every time? And no... your comparison is not the same for the fact that your party members get up if they get killed. You can reload a game save. You can give someone a potion and they magically recover. If you don't send in an air strike... well those soldiers are just dead. Don't compare real life to a game. This is role play. You may like to throw out nothing but big numbers and not having fun unless you are. But notice most of the people here are talking about looks and personality or a specialization that better fits the type of character they want to be. Like I said in that same post, if I'm a death knight... half of these "overpowered" spells never see the light of day to me.

So once again, if you minmax and cherry pick, then get mad because the game is "easy" you have no one but yourself to blame. Don't demand that everyone else gaming experience is ruined because of it. Storm of the Century is my gripe. Everyone complains about lightning that it's weak and all, but Storm of the Century is always considered overpowered. That means we have players who know of the destructive power of the combo and pick spells in the lightning line just to get Tempest for the combo.

[bschaaf]

one of the early heal spells allows you to use the icons to choose whom to heal. One of the later heal spells requires that you find the downed character on the screen to revive him/her. i would like to use the character icons for all heal spells. on more than one occasion i could not locate my NPC and i may have even tried to cast it on a dead enemy.

[Rolenka]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Wrapping up our series of dev questions on character classes, we now ask about the Mage. As we continue to plan for the future of the Dragon Age franchise, we're interested in hearing your feedback regarding the different classes.

In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Mage class. You can still comment in previous weeks' Warrior and Rogue topics. We'll continue the dev questions next week with all new topics.

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Be sure to answer the poll on Mage specializations as well!

I like their versatility and ability to control the battlefield, reaching into their bag of tricks for exactly the right one in any given situation.

There's very little that I don't like about the mage. The toolbar is a serious problem -- I don't have room for all of my spells.

Walking Bomb is frustrating to use. It either draws the agro to the mage, or if the tank keeps it's attention, it blows up in his face. Like most AOE spells, you kind of need to use Mass Paralyze first. I love the idea of Walking Bomb, I just end up getting it before I get the spells I need to make it work.

My favorite specialization is easily Blood Mage, because it extends your mana pool and Blood Wound is godly.

However, the first one I take is Spirit Healer, because you need those spells -- except for the last one, the healing aura one, that's worthless because of its mana drain. If you can afford the drain, you're in an easy fight and don't need the ability. It's much worse than managing the heals yourself manually. I'd rather it have 10% of the effect and no drain at all, to be honest.

Shapeshifter, as I'm sure others have said, is horribly underpowered. Arcane Warrior makes no sense to me. It needs to be more than "cast spells in armor, weeee." What if it could use magic differently? Channel some spells into weapon strikes, for example. I kind of see it a bit more like the Warlock in D&D.

My favorite tree is easily the Spirit tree. Crowd control, mana drain, mage killers (come on though, Mana Clash is just ridiculously overpowered), a pet summon, and as I mentioned, Walking Bomb. It's just a robust tree.

I also like the glyphs from Creation.

I think the entropy tree has a lot of debuffs, some kind of redundant, that don't land on the monsters you need them to (bosses).

[draxynnus]

Theinen83 wrote...

So once again, if you minmax and cherry pick, then get mad because the game is "easy" you have no one but yourself to blame. Don't demand that everyone else gaming experience is ruined because of it. Storm of the Century is my gripe. Everyone complains about lightning that it's weak and all, but Storm of the Century is always considered overpowered. That means we have players who know of the destructive power of the combo and pick spells in the lightning line just to get Tempest for the combo.

And if Mana Clash gets nerfed (and it should) without a corresponding buff to the rest of the line, getting access to Storm of the Century will start requiring taking six spells from otherwise weak lines to use. At least Lightning and Shock are worth using once you've got them - Mana Drain and Mana Cleanse really aren't.

I was saying the problem isn't with the mage itself. The problem is with enemy AI. And in no way did I say you have to play at a handicap. It's simple. If you KNOW one particular spell/combo can wipe out every little thing in your path, and that becomes boring to you... then stop doing that combo. Really, I thought that was an obvious thing. I didn't say don't cast spells at all but c'mon on, if you bring out your biggest. baddest guns on every encounter . Big or small, boss or rank and file, what do you expect to happen? You're cheating yourself out of the experience. Not everyone likes to play like that.

Personally, I've found that for most boss fights, SotC just isn't all that useful anyway - the battle is in close enough quarters that you'll wipe out your party in the process.

Basically, in my experience, there are a few situations where SotC really owns. One is when the encounter wasn't really intended to be that tough anyway - it's not overpowered when you could simply have charged in on default tactics and probably have cakewalked anyway. The second is when you have some means of chokepointing the enemy, especially when the enemy group's main advantage is numbers. In this case, it's the spell working as intended as a solution to a tactical situation, and if SotC was removed from the game tomorrow, we'd probably be talking about using combinations of the other damage-over-time area-of-effects next week. For a similar investment to Storm of the Century, I note, you can combine Tempest, Inferno and Death Cloud...

If there's a problem with SotC, it's probably the sheer size of the area it effects - encounters tend to either be of the kind that are resolved by SotC or where SotC is virtually useless. Cutting it by, say, 25% may still allow it to be larger than most while making it more likely to be useful in a conventional battle and less powerful as a roomclearer, while still having a larger than normal area.

[Haplose]

Ah, I apologize, I forgot one major thing.

Remove Lyrium potions!

Or at least make them extremly rare and valuable!

It's silly right now that spellcasting has virtually no limitations (and Willpower is a useless stat for casters).


P.S. While I'm at it, it looks very silly that staves are worn on the backs during movement out of combat. Staffs are used for support, you know? Staves hanging on the backs look... ridiculous.

I of course maintain what I wrote before about hats and to a lesser degree about robes.

And remove the weapon holstering animation for other weapons while casting many spells. It's just annoying and doesn't serve any purpose.

P.S. 2. Love the spell combos! Good work, Bioware.

Modifié par Haplose, 09 février 2010 - 08:02 .

[Theinen83]

Thank you draxynnus. You get what I'm saying. On hard and nightmare, SotC isn't nearly overpowered because if you bring it to the table each time, you'll undoubtedly end up killing yourself. At the same time, if you're playing it on normal or lower, where the drawback of the spell is removed, then it's not really fair to call it overpowered. I mean on normal it does what? 100 initial damage to your party if you're in range, and then nothing. But the enemies are dropping like flies. On hard or nightmare though, you won't be casting it like that because in most areas, you'll catch your own party. So you can't really say it's overpowered. So I'd rather people stop griping that it's overpowered when they're playing with it on normal or lower and removing it's drawbacks. I like SotC. It's saved my butt several times. (a certain room in the Fade with multiple mages with fireball comes to mind lol) So I would rather not see it nerfed because people choose to spam it nonstop on normal or below and say it's overpowered.



Mana Clash is a bit strong, but honestly, only any enemies that were worth me using it on, it didn't kill them. That would still be balanced out if the enemy mages could cast it as well. And if the enemy mages could cast more spells like that, and only the PC was immune to charm and such, it would change a lot of people's minds who get a PC mage, Morrigan and Wynne. Force Field tank Alistar or someone, and just drop bombs. Why? The mages would ignore Alistar and smack them with Mana Clash. lol



I'm glad someone sees what I'm saying though.

[Haplose]

Theinen83 wrote...

Thank you draxynnus. You get what I'm saying. On hard and nightmare, SotC isn't nearly overpowered because if you bring it to the table each time, you'll undoubtedly end up killing yourself. At the same time, if you're playing it on normal or lower, where the drawback of the spell is removed, then it's not really fair to call it overpowered. I mean on normal it does what? 100 initial damage to your party if you're in range, and then nothing. But the enemies are dropping like flies. On hard or nightmare though, you won't be casting it like that because in most areas, you'll catch your own party. So you can't really say it's overpowered. So I'd rather people stop griping that it's overpowered when they're playing with it on normal or lower and removing it's drawbacks. I like SotC. It's saved my butt several times. (a certain room in the Fade with multiple mages with fireball comes to mind lol) So I would rather not see it nerfed because people choose to spam it nonstop on normal or below and say it's overpowered.

Mana Clash is a bit strong, but honestly, only any enemies that were worth me using it on, it didn't kill them. That would still be balanced out if the enemy mages could cast it as well. And if the enemy mages could cast more spells like that, and only the PC was immune to charm and such, it would change a lot of people's minds who get a PC mage, Morrigan and Wynne. Force Field tank Alistar or someone, and just drop bombs. Why? The mages would ignore Alistar and smack them with Mana Clash. lol

I'm glad someone sees what I'm saying though.

Storm of the Century is fine as it is, given the cost, effort given to cast it and friendly fire. I actually like it a lot.
You can cheeze it by casting through the wall onto a group of unsuspecting enemies, but if you want to spoil your game that way, the more power to you.
If you cast it as intended, perhaps after some initial stealth Rogue scouting mission or in a choke point, then I think it's a great tool and it's very good that mages have such power at their disposal. Perhaps groups (2+) of higher level enemy mages could start casting it

Mana Clash I dislike very strongly. It's extremly strong, has no downsides, no opportunity cost, no risk involved. It also makes several other spells entirely obsolete (including Mana Drain, Mana Cleanse, entire Anti-Magic line and Glyph of Neutralization). It trivializes 90% of otherwise most difficult encounters in game - including enemy casters. All in 1 spellcast. This is a very bad design.
What can be changed: perhaps limit the range on it and reduce it to single-target only. Make it drain all of the caster's mana (and limit ways to replenish mana! Lyrium potions must go away!) and burn enemy mana in the same amount (or maybe x2).
Or make it an aoe centered around the caster and draining mana of friendly targets as well.

Modifié par Haplose, 09 février 2010 - 08:42 .

[aeonlord92]

What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

Like: They are very versatile, they have a variety of different roles that they can play, their equipment provides a huge range of effects and, finally, their specialisations are generally very good. Plus, they also have the 'combined spells' effect which works niely (although thier could be more and there could be more hints of what they are )

Dislike: In some ways they are a bit too versatile, namely, the mage class comes with 52 skills that they can learn and thats not including specialisations - this means you are often stuck for choice as for what you want to learn and, even if you say to yourself 'I'll learn all the skills in the Creation tree' you end up picking ones from other trees because some of the skills in the tree are plain awful.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Underpowered: A lot of thier spells are just plain rubbish and even somewhat useless, this means that a mage will repeatidly use the same spells over and over again, which can get annyoing and sometimes doesn't result in the mage being very efficent.

Overpowered: They are the only class that can generally inflict whatever form of elemental damage they wish, you can add runes to warrior and rogue weapons but that is only 10 damage at the most whereas mages can completely exploit elemtal weaknesses to the point where it can be stupid.

What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Favourite: Arcane Warrior, Spirit Healer and Blood Mage. Seriously, they are all very good and have thier own purpose which they fulfill very well. The only one which is slightly hindered is the Arcane Warrior due to thier irritating sword sheating habbits. Seriously Bioware, PLEASE MAKE A PATCH SO ARCANE WARRIORS DON'T DO THIS ANYMORE! IT MAKES THEM ALMOST UNUSABLE! (I'm using PS3 version btw, I know there's a user-made solution for the PC version <_<)

Least Favourite: Shapeshifter, quite simply they don't work! I've had Morrigan Shapeshift countless times just to see if I could get them to work well and the most damage she ever did in an attack was 5... 5! Something about the damage formula needs to be sorted or the class just needs to be changed.

What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Favourite: Half of the creation tree is very good, the healing and 'herioc' spells to be specific, the other half seems a bit off. It's the same with the primal tree, half are good, half are bad. Regardless Creation and Primal are the two best talent trees.

Least Favourite: The other two - Spirit and Entropy. Spirit has its odd uses every now and them but most of them seem to be anti-mage spells which are only effective in one part of the game, making it useless afterwards. As for the entropy class - I find it hidious, it's just a huge list of status effects, most of which are pointless because you can kill regular eneies easily without them and then they don't work on bosses where they might actually be useful!

[blade12775]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

The class really lacks clothing and weapons. I went through most of the game with the same staff and robes since the beginning. Shapeshifting really sucks as well. There should be more skills when shapeshifting.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

I really like most of the spells though I think that as powerful as they are some of them should have casting times not just the end elmentals attacks.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

I like them all.



* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I really like the Blood Magic and the Spirit Healer specializations Don't like having a Battlemage class personally, but I like the ideal of it being there for others who use it. Shapeshifting is completly useless. Entropy school needs a little bit more work. The mana drain and health drain needs to be more powerful.



Burningwolf said "Single biggest unbalancing factor in the mage's favor is the pressence of the Lyrium potion."

Please! Saying this is like saying that the biggest unbalancing factor for the warrior is the healing potion.

[draxynnus]

Haplose wrote...

Mana Clash I dislike very strongly. It's extremly strong, has no downsides, no opportunity cost, no risk involved. It also makes several other spells entirely obsolete (including Mana Drain, Mana Cleanse, entire Anti-Magic line and Glyph of Neutralization). It trivializes 90% of otherwise most difficult encounters in game - including enemy casters. All in 1 spellcast. This is a very bad design.
What can be changed: perhaps limit the range on it and reduce it to single-target only. Make it drain all of the caster's mana (and limit ways to replenish mana! Lyrium potions must go away!) and burn enemy mana in the same amount (or maybe x2).
Or make it an aoe centered around the caster and draining mana of friendly targets as well.

It's repeating something I've already said, but my position for a while has been: At least double the effects of Mana Drain and Cleanse, so their effect is actually significant. Then convert Clash into a Cleanse that deals damage for mana drained at a 1-1 ratio. It will still be painful for most spellcasters, but it'd be reduced to a level where having it thrown back at you will only be painful rather than a battle between Clash-equipped spellcasters simply being a matter of who casts first (which, since the party is invariably delayed by drawing weapons when the monsters aren't, would invariably mean the bad guys win if they have Mana Clash unless they decide to cast a different spell).

[Seagloom]

What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I like their variation in spell selection. Out of all three classes, none are as varied as a mage. You can play three mages back to back and still end up with radically different approaches to combat based on spell selection. They are also the most tactically fulfilling class for this reason. As a mage, I always meaningfully contribute to combat and often excel at it. Yes, they are very powerful. This does not bother me, however. I'm used to magic being powerful in these games.

What I dislike most about mages is spell overlap. For instance, Flame Blast and Shock are virtually identical. Shock does more damage and lowers fatigue, but that's it. Then you get Cone of Cold which is again the same, except it freezes and does cold damage. There is also some poor balance between spells and spell combinations. Mass Paralysis has a long casting time and diminishing returns as your enemies level. It's best advantage is dropping it on a group your party is fighting safely. Yet Paralysis Explosion always remains as effective as when you first learn it, has a very brief casting time, and hits a huge area. Its only flaw is possibly stunning your party too. Except I rarely need to paralyze enemies my party is engaging. I do it to drop DoT spells or throw fireballs at them.

This pattern is repeated throughout. Weakness/Disorient, Winter's Grasp/Shock, Inferno/Tempest, Spell Wisp/Spell Might, ect. Too many spells are similar to others. In some cases the differences are so neglible as to make choosing one or the other a matter of what you like more thematically. In others it is so extreme as to make one option obviously inferior to another. Winter's Grasp, for example, is easily better than Lightning or Stonefist.

Some spells are also balanced poorly; such as Mana Clash. What I want to see change most is variation. I want more unique spells that do something genuinely different from the rest. Dispel Magic? That's unique. Force Field? Unique. The entire Hex line? Also unique. It's variation and tactical options that make mages fun. I like having to consider what option works best for a given situation. Not decide between which damage type I feel like using that moment and calling it a day.

My other dislikes are superficial. Lack of variation in mage robes and staves. Robes in particular. And don't get me started on those awful hats. I would much rather see my mage wearing a circlet, tiara, bindi... anything as long as it isn't obstrusive. I suppose hoods can stay an option, but I don't want them to be my only choice in low or high end gear.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Lyrium potions. Lyrium potions are so unfair it is ridiculous. Yes, mage spells are powerful, but I think convenient availability of lyrium is behind much of this imbalance. It's too easy to craft the stuff. A mage has no reason to boost willpower at all unless they want to run a bunch of sustainables constantly. Even then, it's trivial to drink a potion after lobbing two or three spells then lob some more. Once magic is high enough, two or three spells may be enough to finish an encounter.

We are led to believe from lore and dialogue that lyrium is rare and precious, and that mages go through great lengths to acquire the stuff. Some turn to Blood Magic to fuel their spells because lyrium is so difficult to come by. Yet as a player, we never see this scarcity. We are practically swimming in lyrium and able to cast with impunity as a result. Make it so that mages can run out of mana and *stay* out awhile, and maybe they won't be mortal gods.

There is nothing underpowered about the mage. Any class flaws are easily overcome by spells. A mage can only be underpowered if one is brand new to DA and does not read what all the spells in a line do before investing in it.


What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

My favorite is Spirit Healer. Everything about it screams handy. Its specialization bonus is great. Its spells are also great. For someone like me that thrives on support characters, it is a lot of fun and makes your mage feel very useful. The only thing Spirit Healer lacks is excitement. It is not a good specialization if one wants to feel powerful and blow things up. I barely consider that a flaw, however, as the class obviously is not meant for that.

My least favorite is Shapeshifter. The idea of shapeshifting is not only cool, but iconic. Unfortunately Shapeshifter as a specialization is both weak and boring. Magic does not seem to add to damage as it should. Shifting takes too long as well. Lastly, the forms are not very varied mechanical and bland in design. Bears are okay. But spiders and insect swarms? Really? I want to turn into a wolf or great cat. The capstone talent is especially boring; as all it does is buff your previous forms into stronger, uglier versions. I would have enjoyed it much more if you could transform into a creature of legend like a certain witch, or into a spirit form. Perhaps a pride demon shape with above average melee and tanking presence, or a desire demon shape that grants minor defensive bonuses and an ability or two, while still allowing full spell access. Something that makes that last talent point feel special.


What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

My favorite talent tree is Creation for its sheer utility and usefulness. Healing, party buffing, and crowd control all in one place. Creation only lacks a powerful offensive presence. That is easily rectified by dipping into Primal, however.

My least favorite is Primal. Not because I dislike blasty spells. That could not be further from the truth. Rather, it is a fairly redundant tree. A few spells overlap, as covered previously. There are also some real turkeys in this tree such as Chain Lightning and Stonefist. (I'm aware Stonefist can shatter and knockdown, but on its own it's no better than Arcane Bolt.)

Actually, I changed my mind. My least favorite favorite is the Mage line. It stops being worthwhile after picking up Arcane Defense. Staff Focus and Arcane Mastery are useful, but their bonuses are minor and not really worth expending talents that can be used to greater effect elsewhere. They are also passive character boosts. Passive boosts bore me.

Modifié par Seagloom, 09 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[Thomas9321]

 The mage is my favorite class hands down, It's just so much fun to play. I think the mage is fairly well balanced, but it does feel much more powerful than the other classes (although not to the extent that they seem underpowered). The best specialisation in my opinion is the Arcane Warrior, I've used it on all but one of my mage playthroughs, I really like being a melee mage. The worst specialisation is the shapshifter. Its completely useless as you  trade all magic ability for mediocre melee skills when you transform. The primal tree is the best, purely on sheer awesome factor of hurling fire at people. The only way to improve it I can think of is to have more mage Origins.

Modifié par Thomas9321, 09 février 2010 - 02:04 .

[LadyGamer2]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage? That there was no Dalish origin story for mages which meant to get all the achievements for mages, you have to play the same origin story 4 times or play the same character 4 different times.  While I really enjoy this game, but I don't know that I will want to play it through 8 times to get all the achievements. (without the re-spec mod to change my talent choices)

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage? Arcane Warrior is overpowered.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite? Like Spirit Healer least favorite is shape shifter, seems like such a waste. (don't really play blood mage)

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite? Favorite is a toss up between Primal and Spirit.  Least favorite is creation.  All the trees have some interesting spells in the them.

On a side note the staff and robe selection are weak.  Much like the complaints I have seen for more rogue light armor options, it would be nice to have better looking mage robes and cooler looking staves. Why the same set of robes has to be cut so drastically differently on male and female characters is unclear to me.

[Kazren]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Wrapping up our series of dev questions on character classes, we now ask about the Mage. As we continue to plan for the future of the Dragon Age franchise, we're interested in hearing your feedback regarding the different classes.

In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Mage class. You can still comment in previous weeks' Warrior and Rogue topics. We'll continue the dev questions next week with all new topics.

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
I ran the Mage last, and they truly are the most powerful of the groups.  Once that cone of cold hits the monster (or Loghain) watch out.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
I think even the first level mage should have a dagger or something and, please get them a new stylist!  The few clothes they can choose from are not very atractive, and Morrigan's original outfit is awful.  I like the plusses you can get with some (like the Reaper's Vestments), but they certainly are not as cool looking as medium weight dragon armor.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
Some are useless.  I went to a lot of trouble to get blood magic, then felt it did not deliver.  I end up with Arcane warrior and Spirit Healer most of the time.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Farvorite are the elements, cold first, then fire, then stone, then last of all electricity.
I've really never chosen some of the other ones, though I do like paralyze and mind blast (which is a must for lower level characters)



Be sure to answer the poll on Mage specializations as well!

[Nerdage]

I have a suggestion for the shapeshifting tree, since I like the idea. Why not have a 'shape' for each of the magic types? So there's a shape that boosts creation spells and weakens the other trees (probably the other specialization trees too), and probably an extra shape for melee/tank-ing. Like the shapes in the sloth demon's dream, I guess, but the spells wouldn't come with the shape, you'd still have to learn them normally. This would also give a reason to pick spells of the same school, rather than picking ones from all over the place.



Maybe it's a bad idea, maybe it's already been suggested, but it's the best I could do.



As for the mage class in general, I think this game does it better than any other. I'm not sure why other games consider mages damage only, but it makes sense to me that any spellcaster be called a mage regardless of the type of spells they use. Also nice to see NPCs react differently to mages than other classes, it makes sense.

[Pubknight]

Likes:
- Variety of mages.  You can be a damage dealer / buffer-debuffer / crowd control / healer... basically you can do a few run throughs of the game all as a mage but play a different type of mage each time

Dislike:
- The elemental line is a bit repetitive
- Some tactics criteria would help for things like dispel magic... for example there is a criteria for an enemy with a buff spell, but there is nothing for an npc with a debuff spell / damage over time

Underpowered:
- Not really... pretty powerful class overall, but some way to drop aggro... perhaps a blink spell or a small distance teleport spell

Overpowered:
- Arcane Warrior is overpowered
- Some mutual exclusivity in spells would be nice too... for example, taking the ice elemental line excludes you from taking the fire elemental line
- Mana Clash is overpowered.  Should perhaps be single target instead of AoE, and perhaps with a shorter range.

Specializations:
- Spirit Healer is my favourite as it enhances a particular mage type.  No other specialization really does that... making them not really specializations but almost separate classes unto themselves
- Shapeshifter is my least favourite... it just doesn't seem to work in gameplay.

Talent Trees:
- Cold line is my favourite... high utility / multi use
- Summoning and Anti Magic are my least favourite.  Summoning just seems to have less value to other lines and the last 3 Anti-Magic spells are all kind of the same

[Sylvius the Mad]

I still want to know what you plan to do with this information. Soliciting opinions like this scares the hell out of me.

You guys are the experts. You know how to design a good game. Don't trust us; we're just laymen.

To answer your questions, I like the variety available to mages. The Glyph line in particular is really inspired. The tactical options available to the mage are many and varied. They are the class best able to use terrain, and not always in a way I think the level designers anticipated. They can gain very powerful spell combinations at low levels, but at the risk of becoming one-dimensional.

One strength of DAO's system overall is that it's possible to design a character badly. Why this is a strength is that it allows builds that suit almost anyone's playstyle, allowing anyone who gives the class some thought to have a effective character they enjoy playing, rather than forcing everyone to play the same way.

That's always been the strength of the mage class, and DAO does it well.

[WhiteVeils]

OK...my suggestions. I'll totally go along with everyone's 'hate the mage robes/hats', love to play mages, etc, etc.



I do think mages may be a little overpowered.



Suggest to fix:

1) Make taking a lyrium potion have a cost. IE: for each one you take in a battle, your spellpower is cut dramatically for a period of time afterwards. This works well with the, um, mental problems lyrium addicts have.

OR 2) Remove Lyrium potions from the game completely. Add to the mage line (in place of staff mastery, but maybe achievable at earlier levels) or on a new line a talent with a zero mana cost and long recharge time that will instantly replenish some portion of your mana pool. If in its own talent line, you could have the different ranks fill different amounts of lyrium.

OR 3) Make Lyrium dust very hard to procure, and have the drops decrease in number.



Yeah, that'll kill a money-making scheme, but it would fix a lot of the overpoweredness that seems to hit mages.