273 réponses à ce sujet

[Mallissin]

I played a mage on my second play-through, after a rogue archer. I noticed that being a mage, you rely more on your special spells than normal attack to be a help in combat.

So, I'd suggest adjusting the damage of the normal staff attack to be affected by Spellpower (Magic and staff) and changing the timings for special spells to be more reliant on more attributes. For instance, let's say a higher dexterity attribute helps reduce the spell cast time for bigger spells and increased constitution decreases spell recharge time.

Shapeshifting seems underpowered because you can't use magic. Either the shift needs to take less time or the shapes need to get more powerful. I'd suggest instead of replacing a castor's attributes with the form, you add onto the attributes present a set amount each form and then the additional depending on spellpower. For example, Spiders get a set bonus to Dexterity and Willpower, Bears to Strength and Constitution, Swarm to Cunning and Magic; then another bonus to the same stats based off spellpower.

If the casting time for Shapeshifting is reduced to something that takes only a second or two at most, then a lone spellcaster can change when being outnumbered or can pop in for some damage while waiting for bigger spells to recharge.

[Tak of the Archives]

Overall I think mages are ok as is, but I would like to see the Shapeshifter specialty strengthened. That for me is the biggest issue with mages at the moment. I think just fixing the bug which would allow a shifter to use magic instead of strength would be a good start. Maybe some other forms?

[godmageTOL]

What do you like and dislike about the Mage?



Power- It's nice to see the mage as the tide turner, too often mages are nerfed and made to be weak. Mages are power and it should be difficult to be good, but the power should be there. That goes for pros and cons the mage is a little too strong i think, but with the way the game was created it seems to balance nicely. (2-3 direct hits and you die heh) I would like to have seen a more in depth mage system, but i'm an old ultima online player...doesnt get much better then uo mage system.

I also didn't care for how a lot of the mage gear looked. Hats primarily. The mage robes should allow for either customization or should be more mage like. Would be awesome to have a hooded shroud or something.

Blood mage is the greatest thing EVER! (does has room for improvment but finally run out of mana and your not totally useless, you can use your life!)







*Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?*



I saw that most of the higher end creatures resisted the hex's i threw 95% of the time. I'd attempt 3 or 4 differnt hex's and they would be resisted. Not that they shouldn't be but it seemed that when you had a reason to use a hex it wouldn't work. Most notable here is the misdirection hex, i try to use this one a higher end monster and it almost never works. I also think that the cold damage was very low, i had a ton of cold damage increase gear on and my blizzard was hitting low numbers. I think there was a lot of "dabbling" into many various aspects of the mage. I think need to keep it basic and beef up the basic spells for a mage. Either offer various levels or varities of spells or add more to certain slots. Fire for example has no spells for a single target, the nature tree was weak, cold was pretty well done but why frost weapons...so much potential on the primal side. Creation tree needs to go. More offense spells! Drain life is a great one tho i really enjoyed that spell.





* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?



shapeshifter is dumb idea, im not a mage to change forms, perhaps more classes shouldve been added as opposed to a mage/druid. Spirithealer seems stupid as well... although makes sense to me that would balance with blood mage nicely. Once again a mage isnt supposed to be a primary healer/buffer (thus making creation tree useless), it should be a devasting support, similar to a pack of archers.

Blood mage- this is the coolest idea for a mage that ive run into in awhile. The fact that i can dump my mana pool then switch off to use my life as mana is awesome. Mage play at its finest here, 10 out of 10.

Add more blood mage spells, I found overall that the specs were a lil shallow, I'd have liked more depth in the specing. Just dump the creation tree in favor of a few more spells for each spec and a few more useful offense spells.

I didnt get to spec arcane warrior, im planning on starting a new game to try it out soon. However the idea of a warrior mage is a solid one, a favorite spec for any mage who wants something a lil differnt.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?



First off this is where i had the most issues in this game. I felt the selection of spells was sub par. It was nice to see some new and interesting spells come out but they didn't have the sting a mage likes. A lot of control spells but nothing exceptionally potent on offense. The fireball and cone of cold are the best spells i found. Cone of cold is control at its finest and Fireballs knock down effect is great. As for the creation tree...well why? 16 spells to choose from... but you only need one spell out of them...heal. I understand why it was put in, I just think it's a poor choice. I can see the guy playing the warrior who wants a mage as a support healer/buffer. But i'm here to play the MAGE not the healer besides thats what wynne is for. I also didn't care much for the sustained spells. Once again usually buffs for other party members, but they cost so much mana i found they weren't worth the upkeep. Aside from wynne's cleansing aura which is great for healing injured party members i saw no sustained spells that were worth the mana. Oh and frost weapon/fire weapon gets a nice big ROFL. Wasted spell space. Overall i say the spell selection was average. I'd like to have seen a delay effect spell or two and a few more direct offense spells as well as some more debuffs, perhaps a single strong one or some combo of hex's to create various effects. To me there are at least 17 wasted spells.



Overall i found that the mage play was diverse, challenging and in the end a lil boring. Near the end of the game it was gettin to the point that every fight is the same spell selection/set up. With the addition of more spells i could see this lessened and giving the mage more diversity would result in longer and more gratifying play.

[Tulaugu]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
LIKE: The crowd control that a mage can bring and the power to deal quite some damage from a distant (that also ignores the armor a mob is wearing).
DISLIKE: Mages got unlimted spells if they use potions. That makes them far too powerful and doesn't force you to find creative solutions.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
Overpowered: The combination Blood Mage/Arcane Warrior. It's a near immortal combination, even on nightmare. Also the bloodspell Blood Wound is far too powerful. It's such a massive crowd control that also deals massive damage. Furthermore, any mage is overpowered on a difficultylevel lower than nightmare. The amount of HP and resistances on nightmare balances the mage out nicely, but on lower difficulties the mage is simply too strong. You can kill Loghain with your mage without him ever hitting you and you ever taking a mana pot unless you play on nightmare.
Underpowered: The Shapeshifter. You don't actually ever want to shapeshift. Shapeshifting costs mana and using that mana on any other spell has more impact on the battle than shifting to a useless for with hardly any abilities or strength. It would already be more interesting if the damage your bear does is linked to your magic and if shapeshifting is instant. Like for instance in WoW (druids).

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
Farvorite: Spirit Healer, you just need one on Nightmare if you play with a group. It's as simple as that. Too bad you are forced to roll one yourself or bring Wynn with you.
Least favorite: Shapeshifter. As stated above... why is it even there? It doesn't work.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Favorite: The row with Cone of Cold and Winter's Grasp. Those spells are just awesome and balanced on nightmare.
Least Favorite: The whole row of heroic defense and so on. The first 3 spells are a waste of mana, having good armor and weapons work a lot better. The last one is laughable. Something that drains mana fast should obliterate rooms with trashmobs. This does not.

Hopefully this helps a bit. For more input... you got my mail. I know I complained a lot on this forum, but I love the concept of the game and would gladly talk about making it as good as it could be sometime.

Regards

/Tulaugu

[Zombie Expert]

What I like most about the mage is that they are the most tactically intensive of the three classes. Being a mage opens up several new strategies for literally every single encounter.

I do not think the mage is overpowered or underpowered, because although they can sometimes dish out more damage than the other classes, you must use them correctly to discover their true potential.

My favorite mage specilization would be blood mage (bet you couldn't have guessed from the end of my last sentence). It grants me another extremely useful CC (especially because it only affects enemies) in addition to giving me an alternative to constantly popping mana poultices when I run out of mana.

My least favorite specilization is definitely shapeshifter. It is pretty much useless, because the only plausible use for the forms would be to quickly have your mage stand in for your tank if he dies. However, this strategy is also rendered void because of how long it takes to change forms.

My favorite talent tree would probably be primal. CC's and AoE's are the mages strong point, and some of the best (cone of cold, petrify) are in primal. I do also like the spirit tree though, because it also has some more AoE's and CC's.

My least favorite tree is definitely entropy, because it is incredibly useless except in very rare cases.

[Jace Surana]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

Mage is my favorite storyline. I've always been one to play the underdog in any story-based game, and mages and elves are the underdogs if nothing else. Therefore, I play an elf mage. cocky, rebellious, and quite dangerous actually. It's so much fun! Down with the chantry! My dislikes are the freakin hats. I don't like headpieces on my mage. It makes him look stupid. I actually play through the game without wearing headpieces because of it. I wish there was an option that allowed you to make it invisible while wearing it. But oh well, it's a minor detail.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Hmmm... As for underpowered, I'd have to say the shapeshifting animal classes. Being able to turn into bears and spiders and whatnot is great. But overall, they are completely weak. They don't really do all that much damage, and they turn your class into melee which is stupid IMO. Of course, if I'm really going to turn into something to kill things, why not demons like I could when I was trapped in the fade? Or maybe a huge awesome dragon like Flemeth? Oh well. As for overpowered, there's no such thing for me as a mage. The more power, the better I say. Makes me feel godly.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

My favorite would have to be blood mage, hands down. There is a health penalty for using it, sure. But watching my enemies freeze and twitch as their blood boils or turn on each other and hack each other to shreds makes it all worth it, Blood mage 4ever, baby. My second fave would be spirit healer. Anything that helps me and my party stay in the fight longer deserves a salute from me. As for least favorite, definately shapeshifter. So very yawntastic, the animals you can turn into. And the lack of real power in the specialization makes it so not worthwhile. As for arcane, meh, it's okay in a pinch I guess.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Entropy is my absolute favorite. You can learn sleep and nighmare, which allows you to make your enemies turn on each other some percent of the time, just like you can when a blood mage. Comes in handy when trapped in the fade by the sloth demon, that's for sure. My least favorite would be arcane. Not too much going on there, though I still get it for the upgrade to shooting bolts from my staff. (That's what she said!)



\\

[Cancermeat]

I thought the mage was the hardest class to play on the console version. I didn't like the gear style either. ie the weird hats and robes look strange on men.

[Magister Lajciak]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I like the mage in general because of the flavor, but I also like the mechanical aspects of just how versatile the or specialized the class can be, depending on spell selection.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

The most overpowered aspect/specialization of the mage is the Arcane Warrior. That it allows the mage to use magic instead of strength to qualify for equipment usage is quite enough, but also allowing him to use the magic ability score in its place mechanically... its just too much.

Some of the cold spells are also overpowered (but it doesn't stop them being my favorite), such as cone of cold.

As to what is underpowered about the Mage, I would say that the Mage's ability to take down bosses is severely underpowered. Bosses are more or less completely immune to magic even for a Mage with high spellpower. I suppose the mage can still contribute to the party in these situations by healing, improving weapons and so on.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Blood magic is something that I would be more reluctant to take than the others simply because of the flavor - I tend to play the good guys.

I guess you are looking for mechanical likes/dislikes, though, and in that case I would say that the shapeshifting specialization is the mechanically most useless. Meanwhile the Arcane Warrior specialization allows the mage to tread on the toes of the warrior...

I really like the  Spirit Healer specialization. It is strong, but not Arcane Warrior-like (in terms of stepping on somebody else's toes) and provides a useful supporting role for the party.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I like the healing and the cold talent trees and enjoy taking/using them both although I recognize that the cold one is overpowered. My least favorite talent trees are probably the various ones that are supposed to hamper the enemy. I like them in theory, but in practice they are either/or effects and the enemy just tends to resist them with no effect or reduce their duration to negligible (or if not, one is still often better off using cold spells that both damage and hamper the enemy) .

[Marionetten]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

Love the lore, the additional dialogue options and the more gruesome spells. Hate the ridiculous hats.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Crushing Prison is now an absolute joke for a fourth tier spell, Death Magic and Death Syphoon aren't even worth toggling on and hexes are far too potent in general.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

The Blood Mage is my favorite despite some issues. Blood Control and Blood Sacrifice should work together and Blood Magic needs to stay on until we decide to toggle it off.

Shapeshifter is completely useless. I do like the lore and all but the specialization is just bad.

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I absolutely love spirit. Particularly Walking Bomb as it takes some planning to use correctly but when you do the payoff is just tremendous. Primal is a bit boring.

Modifié par Marionetten, 11 février 2010 - 08:24 .

[draxynnus]

godmageTOL wrote...

Creation tree needs to go

{snip}

 Once again a mage isnt supposed to be a primary healer/buffer (thus making creation tree useless), it should be a devasting support, similar to a pack of archers.

They aren't? Considering that the Dragon Age lore means that divine classes are unlikely (none of the gods seem to be answering prayers at the moment) who else is going to be performing that role?

What we have works. If someone wants to go healing/buffing, they can go with Creation, Anti-Magic, and maybe pick up one of the weapon spells (which I think you underestimate, incidentally). If they want to destroy things, they can pick up those spells, or they can have a balance of the two. The healing/buffing role is presumably going to be in the game regardless, so the Mage probably hasn't lost anything by it being rolled into Mage - if it had been split off into a seperate class, the Mage would likely have had less overall as resources are diverted into developing the fourth class.

Obviously you enjoy wielding the spells of mass destruction more than taking the protective role, but don't force your preferences on others.

[DalVel]

In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Mage class. You can still comment in previous weeks' Warrior and Rogue topics. We'll continue the dev questions next week with all new topics.

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

Mage is my favourite class, so I'm biased here. Mages always have been at the top for me. Although there's a few things I believe that could be better with the mage class.
First the spells, while nicely defined into 4 schools, don't really make you focus on one or the other unless you go for achievements. There's that bar over each displaying how much of the school a mage knows, and I think it should have some use. Maybe increase the power of all spells belonging to the school if the bar is full? or 25%/50%/75%/100% levels?
Or perhaps lock out opposite schools, say if you take spells from primal, you can't use spirit spells anymore. If you pick Creation, Enthropy locks out for you, making the choice of spells a little harder than "lets see what's most powerful and take it".
Additionally, Mages lack a little in terms of equipment. Staves are interesting, but if a staff deals elemental damage, and opponent is immune to that element, then the mage is in a really bad position. Perhaps staves should deal arcane damage as a base, and use runes to improve/modify their attacks. I was disappointed seeing that only melee weapons can be improved with runes.
Oh, and silly cowls need to go. I'm sure mages of Ferelden could come up with something more fashionable.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

I believe the ability to pick and match any spells from any school is a little bit overpowered. One of my above suggestions would definitely reduce that part.

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

Blood Mage is definitely my favourite, turning your opponents against their friends is always fun ^^, and its power comes with a downside of being unable to receive heals while in blood magic mode. Shapeshifter is my least favourite due to its obvious weaknesses. Once shapeshifted, your performance starts to depend on stats that no mages ever raise (and there's no such information in Shapeshifter description). Perhaps if it used Magic for attack/defense and kept all sustained spells working while shapeshifted, it would be more fun (Bear form with stone skin, and flaming weapons would definitely be interesting)

* What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I haven't tried all trees fully yet, but Primal leaves you with a big smile on your face as you enemies burn/freeze/get electrocuted and die horrible deaths. I can't say about least favourite yet as I haven't really explored any school other than Primal fully (yep, that's three more playthroughs for three remaining schools)

Modifié par DalVel, 11 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[MatiasJ]

First off, the mage is my favourite origin. Being treated according to your class, not your social status, feels more unique in my opinion, especially considering all the interesting lore behind mages and the dangers of magic.
The versatility with mages and how you can basically fill any role you choose is also a huge plus.

I also like especially the interaction and teamwork you can achieve with other mages by coordinating the use of different spells and spell combos. (one mage freezing an enemy, the other one shattering it, 2 mages casting tempest and blizzard for storm of the century, one mage knocking enemies down/cc:ing them while others use damge spells, etc, etc..). This is far beyond any interaction that rogues or warriors can have. Spell combos are a really great idea.

But like many people, i also dislike the lack of gear and model options for mages. The Tevinter robes look ok, but i was hoping that high-end items like the staff of the magister lord would have more of a unique model.

To make a short comparison between mages and warriors: Mages have a lot more versatility in their spell/talent choices than warriors (who need to pick for example every two-handed talent if they want to be truly effective with it), while warriors have a lot more versatility in their gear choices.

Perhaps my greatest dislike with mages are the specializations. None of them are that interesting to me. I mostly like playing very traditional ranged damage dealer/controller mages and none of the specializations support that very well (except for blood magic a bit, but i'll explain below), which is why i tend to just skip taking any specializations and go for as many normal spells as possible, since the variety you can get with all the basic mage spells feels far more interesting.


Blood magic: while being the best option for "traditional" mages, i'm always such a goody-two-shoes that i hesitate with this school. Blood control can be a really fun spell though.

Spirit Healer: great school for a healer obviously, but i'd feel more like a priest with this than a mage.

Arcane Warrior: Interesting in it's own way (not all mages have to be frail cloth-wearers who aren't effective in melee!), but again, not really for caster mages.

Shapeshifter: I do like the idea of mages with shapeshifting spells, but i was hoping for more exotic shapes than bears or spiders.

When playing with a mage,  I'd love to see something more traditional, like an archmage specialization, without having to resort to evil deeds to get blood magic


With all the above being said, my favourite spell schools, from best to least:
Primal (flashy damage spells ), Spirit (interesting cc and mana control options, spell might), Entropy (mix of nice cc, debuff and damage options), Creation (healing and glyph spells)

I do like all the schools a lot. The above is just more of a representation of what styles i like to go for with mages. I'd take every spell in the game if i could

What i'd like to see is chain lightning emitting more familiar tendrils of electricity instead of ball that lets out some sparks and would be great to see more summoning spells too.

Modifié par MatiasJ, 11 février 2010 - 11:27 .

[draxynnus]

Something suddenly struck me...



People have been commenting on Death Syphon and Death Magic being useless. It's not something I can disagree with - Syphon I've never tried, but Magic requires being in the middle of the enemy (which, depending on build, kinda defeats the point of getting the healing, since you'd be likely to be putting yourself in a vulnerable position) and, when I did try it, didn't really seem to be doing much. Would these be more useful if reworked to give a significant boost to mana or health respectively whenever an enemy dies within a reasonably large radius, rather than slowly pulling mana or health from a corpse within a short-ish range?

[CybAnt1]

As I said elsewhere:



Two of the four schools make sense.



Primal is elemental/kick-ass school. Fine.

Entropy is debilitation/drain (warlock) school. Fine. These two schools make sense.



Spirit? Don't get the school, the spells don't hang together. Why is Animate Dead (the mage's only Summon) in Spirit, coming after Walking Bomb and its upgrade? Crushing Prison is awesome, too, but don't get what it has to do with the two other Anti-Magic spell lines that make up Spirit.



Creation? Seems like the healing/"cleric" school and there is one healing line ... one buffing line ... one glyph line ... and WtH do the other lines have to do with the fourth, which ends in ... Stinging Swarm? Huh? (It's a great spell, just don't get the school it's in.)



Two of the schools don't seem ... "internally consistent".



As for the specializations ...



Blood Magic is cool. But yes I had to mod my game to try it because I refused to make the ingame choice to get it the "proper" way. Same with Reaver spec. It would be cooler if it didn't take from health. I love the spells in the line, I don't like the fact that it makes my low-health mage flirt with death to use. Well, except Sacrifice which ... I won't use.



Arcane Warrior? Awesome, but ... just seems not to fit. And lacks gear. I know my mage CAN walk around in clanking chainmail having gained AW, I just don't want to SEE him in it.



Spirit Healer? Cool enough but to me it just seems like an extension to the existing healing line of the Creation school.



Shapeshifter? Like it. Would prefer to see a wider mix of forms, particularly with the ability to turn into things that have abilities and magic powers, not just beasts. Like turn into a air elemental and throw gusts of wind, or become a dragon and breathe fire. (Yes, I know the modding community is doing this already.)



I would like to see more mage Summon spells, besides just Animate Dead. Requires a dead humanoid corpse. Not all that good a summon unless you combo it with Spell Might. Yes, I've tried the Evocation mod, but it's still a bit beta, and could use some tweaking.

[Enishi]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

Likes:

-the background story is perhaps the best one on my opinion.

-the mana system

-spell combos

Dislike:

-the lack of number of robes and headgears

-We need mage item sets (or at least a specialization item set)



* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

I feel Mana Clash is an overpowered spell. Although, a lot of people use it and its tier 4. It should be nerfed and make Elemental spells stronger especially the lightning tree. Blood Magic seems so strong in the story yet if you take it, it is weak and won't be of much use later in the game.



* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

My favorite is still the Arcane Warrior by a longshot. To make this specialization complete is to officially add an "Arcane Taunt".



Blood Mage and Spirit Healer are pretty ok. Shapeshifting is pretty bad because of the cast timer

[draxynnus]

CybAnt1 wrote...


Spirit? Don't get the school, the spells don't hang together. Why is Animate Dead (the mage's only Summon) in Spirit, coming after Walking Bomb and its upgrade? Crushing Prison is awesome, too, but don't get what it has to do with the two other Anti-Magic spell lines that make up Spirit.

Creation? Seems like the healing/"cleric" school and there is one healing line ... one buffing line ... one glyph line ... and WtH do the other lines have to do with the fourth, which ends in ... Stinging Swarm? Huh? (It's a great spell, just don't get the school it's in.)

Two of the schools don't seem ... "internally consistent".

This is why I object to proposals to make the schools too much more important than they already are - because a lot of choices do seem a little arbitrary.

On the whole, they basically seem to be working with a similar 4-point magic system that games like Guild Wars and Spellforce have used. Creation is the "life" school, Entropy the "death" school, Primal the "elemental" school, and Spirit is the "pure magic" school. With this in mind, at least three out of four of the lines in each school make sense: The "pure magic" school primarily deals with antimagical effects, but also tends to include things like telekinesis, illusion, and mental domination, so the Mind Blast-Crushing Prison line does mesh with the antimagic lines. The "life" school is associated with nature as well as healing, enhancement and protection, so that meshes Summoning with the healing and aura lines.

The odd ones out are the glyph and necromancy lines. The necromancy line could easily swap into Entropy, possibly trading places with the Disorient-Waking Nightmare line. The glyphs line, containing an antimagic glyph as well as others whose effects might be considered telekinetic if wielded directly by the caster instead of through a glyph, could also easily fold into Spirit. So why are they where they are?

Well, the simplest explanation is that that's what created the symmetry they wanted. Putting everything in its most logical places may have left Creation with only 3 lines and Entropy with 5, so they shifted a couple of lines one step towards Creation so they balanced.

Further explanation, however, may come from delving deeper into the lore and mechanics. In the Necromancy line, we do in fact have two connections with Spirit: First, Death Syphon is, in theory, an energy management spell. Second, in the lore of undead in Thedas, they are created when a spirit or demon in the Fade inhabits a corpse - the Animate Dead line may in fact do exactly that, which gives it a link with a line called "Spirit". Given that, in the setting, magical ability comes from a particularly strong connection to the Fade, it might be that this is actually the fundamental basis of the line - the ability to manipulate energies in the Fade - and their antimagic abilities comes from this direct connection to the source of magic.

When it comes to glyphs - the connection with Creation would appear to be that while the effects may look Spirit-like, they still need to be stored in a glyph in the meantime - and creating that glyph is an act of creation. Ergo, the position of the Glyphs line.

All that said, though, I don't believe the schools to be distinct - in fact, I'd be interested in learning if they have any real basis in the way magic works at all, or whether it's just where some past scholar decided to draw the lines. Instead, I think of Thedas magic as being a continuum, with some lines sitting on the boundaries between different schools.

[Alias Oddvar]

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

I like that mages are very versatile. I dislike the fact that spell resistance is not capped, and that mages grow more powerful the more you have of them in the party. vulnearability hex stacking and mass cc comes to mind.

So i suggest makeing potions have a cooldown of 45 seconds on hard, and 90 seconds on nightmare.
So that chain drinking potions  does not work quite so well, and cap spell/dodge resists.


* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

Spells that are op: Manaclash(instant kill mages in an area of effect!), storm of the century(because enemy mages does not use dispell), fireball is a bit to good in the early game.
Other spells such as hex stacking with multiple mages is op vs though opponents that are not one shot kill)

Spells that are weak: heroic aura, heroic defence, and heroic offence are quite weak. they cost alot of mana and do not do much.

Arcane warriors are a bit too strong because warrior equipment surpasses mage equipment by a large margin.

Shapeshifters are worthless, so here are my bufffing suggestions.
1:make shifted forms undispellable,(they take such a long time to cast so it is needed)
2: make shifted forms refresh cooldown automatically when you have finished chatting with npcs.
3.make attribute bonuses from shifted forms stack with your natural attributes. and make each  point of magic add 1 to strength when you shift.(you cannot use potions or very good spells so your natural attributes has to be higher to compensate for that.)

If you do that shapeshifters will be playble, further patching is needed to fine tune the bonuses you give the forms. 

 What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?

walking bomb, siphon mana, and virulent waling bomb got to be the best spells made for high reward high risk playstyle i have yet to see.

My least favorite got to be: disorient-horror-sleep-walking nightmare.
if it was not for haste, then it would be the heroic line. but haste makes up for it.

Also can you script it so enemy mages has a spell that can dispel, and script it so that they use in on characters with more then 3 buffs.
Also can you script mages to use the most damageing spell combinations.
some exsamples are 2x hex followed by virulent walking bomb, and a fireball. fast to cast and very damageing.

Modifié par Alias Oddvar, 12 février 2010 - 12:19 .

[CybAnt1]

This is why I object to proposals to make the schools too much more important than they already are - because a lot of choices do seem a little arbitrary.

Well I would absolutely hate under the current system having a mage being forced to stick to a school having once started choosing spells in it; because under the current smorgasbord way it's designed, there's no earthly way I would ever have either an NPC or PC mage stick to one. 

I agree -- it seems obvious that under the current system Entropy is supposed to be death/necromancy, Primal is nature/elemental, Creation is life/healing, and Spirit is "pure magic"/"pure mind" (telekinesis). But then not everything really seems to fit. 

To me it seems obvious Walking Bomb-Animate Dead belongs in Entropy/death. The Spirit Healer "specialization" IMHO really belongs as the fourth line in Creation/life. Primal seems to be nature/elemental so frankly it seems like wisp-bloom-Stinging Swarm belongs there. Both Blood Magic "specialization" and the Power of Blood "bonus" spells seem like they belong as extensions to Entropy/necromancy. 

Also, aside from school inconsistency, sometimes the lines themselves seem weirdly inconsistent, it sometimes seems odd what kind of spells you have to master in one line to get the fourth one in the line. 

Personally, one of the schools needs at least a line of four spells relating to evocation/summoning ... either elementals in Primal, undead in Entropy, dunno. The only other thing I find missing from Thedas magic is either an Illusion line or school (although Waking Nightmare is sort of an illusion spell). 

Anyway, it seems obvious to me given both her background and her spec when you find her, Morrigan "the witch of the wilds" is supposed to be the entropy/primal mage, and Wynne the creation/spirit mage. AFAICT, stinging swarm and crushing prison are just there to make sure she has some offensive ability besides defensive/support/healing/antimagic. Although Wynne does also seem to start off with the earth line in Primal, too. I guess so that she at least also has stonefist for offense (besides arcane bolt). 

My playstyle, when in my first playthough I used a PC mage, was to have my PC focus in offense/primal, Morrigan in entropy/debilitation, Wynne in Creation/healing, and have everybody divvy up different parts of the Spirit school. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 12 février 2010 - 01:17 .

[Red Frostraven]

My opinions on the mage:

Like: Lots of diversity

Dislike: No reason to specialize what so ever.
One solution to force players into specialization (not specialization
classes, but actually putting 10-12 points in the same tree of spells):

Make the different trees have requirements to qualify for their different spells, in different stats, like:

Primal: Strength

Spirit: Willpower

Creation: Cunning

Entropy: Constitution

(Arcane: Magic)

Currently, mages can pump 50 points in magic and pick any 20 talents they like, with impunity.
Try to do the same with a rogue or warrior.
Impossible: Cunning, dexterity and strength requirements hinder you severely.
I'm having serious trouble balancing strength and dexterity for my dual-wielding sword-dagger rogue.

Long story short about my experience with the mage and non-mage:
I took my mage straight through redcliffe, up to the mage tower, through Denerim and then the forest.
It
was harder than NWN1, but then again, I had to restart once because of
a horrible bad choice of spells and investing too much in strength due
to me wanting to be a classic elven mage with a longsword and spells...
Not a cookie-cutting godlike cleric-mage warrior, but a classic elven mage with a longsword.

...
So THEN I tried to do the same with a rogue-bard, as I didn't want to use the mage's fighter addon due to it putting the "eese" in "cheese". (Bad joke, down boy, down!)
MY GOD!
It
was when I told Morrigan to shove her staff where the sun don't shine,
and seek like-minded people in HELL, that I realized that mages have
ALL the healing, they have ALL the area of effect, they have ALL the
disabling abilities that lasts for more than 2 seconds.
...
...
...

My only complaint about the mage is that ONE mage can EASILY solo nightmare, while a party without a mage struggles in normal.
...
As
little as it matters for the mage, the other classes DESPERATELY need
to be able to do something ELSE than stunning for 2 seconds, knocking
down enemies for 2 seconds, weakening armor and attack for 10 seconds:
A cone of cold already does that, ten times better, thank you!
Crushing prison beats each and EVERY knock-down like warrior and rogue ability.
THEN
comes the switch that allows a mage to do about the same damage with a
two-hander as a warrior of the same level, and actually wield a
two-hander to boot, with higher defense and armor... Not even
COUNTING the weapon enchantments and the fact that the mage can disable
enemies much better than any warrior, WHILE in the heat of combat.

It's like you developers went: Ok! Mage: How can we make this class awesome?
Area of effect damage!
Mass healing and regeneration!
Disable!
Damage over time!
Elemental damage!
Bombs!
Combos!
Weapon enchantments!
Armor enhancements!
Magical barriers!
Magical traps!
Forcefields!
Summoning!
Necromancy!

Then you went on to the rogue: How can we make this class awesome?
Backstabbing! 
Automatical critical hits!
Archery!
Dual weapons!
Hiding in plain sight!
Crippling strikes!
Poison!
Traps!
Disable traps and open locks!

Then you went on to the warrior: How can we make this class awesome?
...
...
More hitpoints?
Slightly more damage per level?
Sword and shield?
Tanking?
Oh, lets give them archery, too; some warriors like to wear green tights, I hear... And hey, there's warrior elves!
Damn. Give them the rogue's dual weapons too.
Ok. Make poison a skill, and give everyone access to it.
Oh. And make persuasion a skill for all classes as well.
...
...

My
warrior-rogue CRIES when the abominations and revenants, that I merely
found annoying with my lower level mage with a bad spell selection,
rapes them six ways from sunday.

I know that this isn't feedback
for the MAGE, but WHY THE HECK can't the rogue paralyze for say ~5
seconds with one of his better skills-- and why can't the fighter
overpower characters and stand on top of them for a while -- or
alternatively, why cant the warrior knock OUT people for 5 seconds when
a mage can disable 10 enemies for ten second every twentieth second,
using one single spell?
Mages have crushing prison, petrify, cone of
cold and sleep -- and that's just the START of it, darnit, and EACH one
is more powerful than the most powerful disable spell any non-bard has
access to!

[/rant]

Summary: The mage is king, the rogue is the gnome illusionist advisor, and the warrior is the court jester.

Addons:
A melee tree that requires HEAVY investment in other stats to be viable, but that at the least leads to a true magical warrior other than the overpowered powerhouse of a specialization that makes Chuck Norris look average; the arcane warrior.
Many people WANT to wield a sword while casting spells, but do not want to be gods in the process.
One of the problems is that you can dump all your points into magic and STILL pick any mage talent in the game, ESPECIALLY if you want to wield swords!

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 12 février 2010 - 04:48 .

[Kahpya]

What do you like and dislike about the Mage?
Like: the mage class is really costumizeable, you can make a mage that is purely there for support or you can make a mage that can tank as good as a worrior.

Dislike: There are no sets to a mage which i think is boring. 

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?
Underpowered: only the specialization shapshifter IMO is underpowered. all else i think is ókay.

Overpowered: the Storm of the Century is completely overpowered even on Nightmare which i only play on. so its the most boring spell combo and never will i ever make a mage with that again.


What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?
Like: The spirit healer, has great spells, the cleansing aura is a little mana consuming, but it is the final skill in that tree so guess thats all right, group heal is good but its annoying that you cant get the tactic setup to make it activate when 2 allys health is below 50% health.

Dislike: the shapshifting specializations has nothing to offer IMO, it takes to long to shift shape. and non of the shapes you can transform into is of no interesse either.

What are your favorite Mage talent trees? What are your least favorite?'
Like: The Entropy tree because there a most useful spells. like crowd control spells and single taget crontrol spells, also health crotrol spells both for yourself and enemies.

Dislike: Dont realy dislike this but primary tree is the one i least like, because i dont use them that much, only take one of the four primary trees to get some damage, but else i leave it alone.

Modifié par nikihap, 13 février 2010 - 11:21 .

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there!

Sort of related (I already responded to the OP's questions in an earlier post) I was thinking about the lack of WALL style spells in the game and how they would be very interesting.

Wall of Fire (Thick) - burns those passing through it or near it - limited by time
Wall of Ice (Thick) - will freeze enemies caught within it, dealing constant cold damage to them, but you can't attack them before shattering the wall which would have a limited 'Health' total.
Wall of Force (Thin) - blocks all attacks but has a limited 'Health' total itself - double that of the Wall of Ice
Blade Barrier (Thin) - doesn't block missile or spell attacks but just damages those trying to pass through it
 - limited by time
Curtain of Darkness (Thin) - deals spirit damage and causes an injury to those passing through it - limited by time
Portal (Special) - the two ends of this invisible 'wall' act as a gateway between each other allowing characters (and enemies) to bypass certain units/enemies or choke points.

Also I am wondering if you could split the Primal Spells (or others) into Offensive and Defensive spells?

eg. Fire Chain #1: Offensive

Flaming Weapons < Cone of Fire < Fireball < Inferno

Fire Chain #2: Defensive

Fire Shield (gives a Fire Resistance Bonus) < Cloak of Fire (anyone striking you in melee takes fire damage) < Wall of Fire < Fire Aura (Fire Damage to anyone who approaches within a certain distance of you).

[fikl]

First let me say I enjoyed the game immensely and thought that the mages were well done. On to the feedback.

* What do you like and dislike about the Mage?

 I like that the mage plays differently than the other classes and is extremely flexible. I like how your magical abilities scale with level and remain useful throughout the game. I like how spells are generally different from each other and that experimentation is required to figure out how they work.
I dislike the mage clothing. Running around looking like a buffoon while trying to stave off the blight really felt odd.
I dislike all the mage exploits that ruin game balance. You can cast area of effect spells right though doors and walls! Enemies kindly wait in large groups to be attacked! This suggests an obvious tactic. Leave your companions. Wander up to a group. Cast your area of effect spell, watch them die or become extremely weakened. Lead them back to your party if they bother to chase. This makes even the nightmare difficulty a joke. The long cast times for these spells encourage this tactic. The interaction of the AI, line of sight, and AoE spells badly needs fixing.
I dislike the boring and generic spell effects. They feel cookie cutter. Having sustains on during cut scenes often hurts the drama.
I dislike the long cast times for some spells like chain lightning. Given the level of damage chain lightning does, the long cast time is strange.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?

The mage class feels hugely overpowered compared to the other two. For example, magic is the only stat a mage needs to worry about. Lyrium potions are so plentiful that you never have to worry about mana recharge even on the hardest difficulty. (Restricting the lyrium potion supply at higher difficulty levels would help a great deal.)

* What are your favorite Mage specializations? What are your least favorite?

I can't say that I have any favorites. None of them appeal to me. 
(In general, the specializations in the game lacked imagination and were not well integrated into their classes or the story. Also, the fact that a player can have two specializations doesn't make them seem special.)
I dislike the arcane warrior specialization the most. It is overpowered and integrates melee and magic in an awkward fashion. It seems like an afterthought.

Modifié par fikl, 12 février 2010 - 08:24 .

[MikosNZ]

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Mage?



The mage class has many abilities that are overpowered. Way too much CC that trivializes alot of the content in the game. On my first play through I am playing on nightmare difficulty and I had to intentionally drop morrigan from the party and restrict wynne to healing lines and avoid cc otherwise the game was too easy. If nightmare is relatively easy with mages I hate to think how easy normal would be. The higher difficulty levels should scale back the duration of CC or increase the resist rates then the difficulty level would be more inline with the other party makeups.

[expiredrascals]

I in general am fine with the mage, but here is my two cents:
Ongoing powers should remain active when shapeshifted, the lack of this severely nerfs the specialization
Shapeshifting should be instantaneous. It downright stupid that every conversation yanks you out of your form and then in the ensuing battle you have to be very vulnerable while reshifting
I like the ongoing abilities, and I wish there were more of them, but mana seems to increase a tad too little per skill point spent, my arcane warrior hit 25 with nearly every point into mana and her buffs still made it not last more than the first 30s of the fight.
I hate most of the mage cowls that make you look like a parrot
the warden's keep blood magic ability (health gives mana) seems to have too long of a cast time (when you rise into the air spouting blood)
earthquake seems to have low damage
I don't see why the stun locks were removed

EDIT: I also wish that staffs/staves would explicitly state their damage type

Modifié par expiredrascals, 12 février 2010 - 11:50 .

[draxynnus]

CybAnt1 wrote...

To me it seems obvious Walking Bomb-Animate Dead belongs in Entropy/death. The Spirit Healer "specialization" IMHO really belongs as the fourth line in Creation/life. Primal seems to be nature/elemental so frankly it seems like wisp-bloom-Stinging Swarm belongs there. Both Blood Magic "specialization" and the Power of Blood "bonus" spells seem like they belong as extensions to Entropy/necromancy. 

On the wisp-bloom-Stinging Swarm thing:

Codex Entry 85:


The School of Creation, sometimes called the School of Nature, is the second of the Schools of Matter, the balancing force and complement of Entropy. Creation magic manipulates natural forces, transforming what exists and bringing new things into being.


Creation requires considerable finesse, more than any other school, and is therefore rarely mastered. Those mages who have made a serious study of creation are the highest in demand, useful in times of peace as well as war.

Now, Primal also has a natural side to it, but is pretty much restricted to the "raw power of the elements" side of nature - spells that influence and manipulate the living side of nature do properly belong in Creation.

I'd also agree that Spirit Healer is the specialisation that's most overtly just an extension of an existing school, but I can also kinda see why they made it one - while opinions on their mechanical effectiveness may vary, they are thematically a big step up from regular healing (you have spells that can revive someone from near-death, that can prevent that in the first place, can heal injuries that regular healing magic can't touch...), and thus it needs an extra investment than simply learning a new line - which is what the specialisation represents.

Blood magic certainly appears to be closely related to entropy, but again, it's an added level of investment. I tend to think that Arcane Warrior also sits around the creation/spirit border and Shapeshifter is also loosely associated with Creation as well.

Red Frostraven wrote...

My
warrior-rogue CRIES when the abominations and revenants, that I merely
found annoying with my lower level mage with a bad spell selection,
rapes them six ways from sunday.

Did you play the "warrior-rogue" first?

I found the opposite - my mage who I played the first time around with, as it turns out, a decent spell selection had to be played very carefully aroud Revenents to avoid getting creamed. In fact, the first Revenant I faced in that playthrough, I had to place my PC behind terrain where he basically only provided healing support to avoid being pulled in and summarily executed, while Morrigan was in spiderform to prevent the same. When I faced a revenant at an appropriate level with my warrior, my PC and Shale basically got together and squished it.

The same regarding boss-level abominations. And the first encounter with an ogre, although obviously Shale wasn't around for that one. But neither is any source of non-poultice healing if you're not a mage yourself.

The game definitely feels easier on later playthroughs, even if you aren't consciously doing anything different to make it so, and this is especially noticeable between the first and second. That's not to say that mages aren't more powerful than other classes, but I really do think people who play mages second or third are getting an exaggerated view of how big the gap actually is. Especially if the mage isn't an Arcane Warrior.