279 réponses à ce sujet

[kaff33nd]

@Kronner - oops I was thinking of the other power I use a lot - Shockwave. For that I target an unshielded opponent who is further back from the shielded ones but in the same arc. I didn't know about the "must have a target to charge" thing. I assumed something like that anyway, but the C.Norman vid kind of makes it seem that you can charge anywhere.



@Kompaniet gibb - awesome tips! Thanks.

[Odd Hermit]

I don't care what you people say I will never play a Vanguard through insanity.

A few videos showing that it's possible which are probably highlights of area in which the person did well in(or possibly did multiple times) to make the video look good aren't going to convince me.

Shotgun sucks and pull, shockwave, cryo ammo are near useless. I played my Vanguard mainly using an SMG and later on the Sniper Rifle.

[Lazareve]

Odd Hermit wrote...

I don't care what you people say I will never play a Vanguard through insanity.

A few videos showing that it's possible which are probably highlights of area in which the person did well in(or possibly did multiple times) to make the video look good aren't going to convince me.

Shotgun sucks and pull, shockwave, cryo ammo are near useless. I played my Vanguard mainly using an SMG and later on the Sniper Rifle.

Then stop posting and move on?

[Looy]

sinosleep wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

So I watched this video a few times, and at where you are at in the game, thats a very effective strategy. I'm not gonna make any stupid comments, but just a couple things. I'm not trying to start a war or anything like that but I just feel that the vid needs some context.

    At this point in the game, you are lvl 8, with maxed out charge. That means you basically have one move that does significantly more damage and has more effect, proportionally, than any other move at this point. The reason why you can 2 shot anyone at this point is because your fighting humanoids, who are weak to shotguns, and because your so low level that at point blank, you can always two shot with the shotgun on humanoids. At end game, with that particular shotgun, you won't be able to two shot anymore. And your charge, will never get any stronger. It'll stay at that same, so that 1000 newtons you hit right now at lvl 8 stays the same when you hit 30. I know you get upgrades, but it won't proportion out. Endgame, that charge just won't have the power you're going to need
    Your also fighting all humanoids with shields, and you have miranda with maxed out overload. She's 1 shotting those guys shields. Again, its because she's maxed out at lvl 8. Her overload won't proportionally be that strong when you get a bit further in the game.
    I'd love to be able to play the Vanguard like this the whole game, but the fact is that charge, overload, and the shotgun are really going to start to show their weaknesses in a few levels. I'll also note that because my shepards are imported, I don't think I could even get to that mission any lower than 10.

Actually, all you have to do is upgrade to the claymore and you are right back to one shotting everything, here's proof with my old lvl 25 female vanguard



one shotting Geth late game on Legion's loyalty mission.

This isn't my first rodeo, I just happened to make a low level video to stress the point that others were arguing vanguards were worthless until later levels, which is actually the opposite of what you're saying. Also, in regards to Miranda, if you look at the health bars you'll see that most of the people I charged had FULL shields, I didn't use the overload as often as I could have and NO she never one shotted anyone's shield off. You can clearly see in the one portion where I have to switch to the pistol, it was after an overload, and I still had to shoot off the remainder o the shield.

[edited] that came off more rude than I meant to come off as

Your an exellent player, but "FRAPS MOTHER****ER CAN YOU USE IT!"  ...sorry

[kaff33nd]

LOL I was thinking the same thing. Big assed screen and max def doesn't matter if you film it with a camera! haha. But FRAPS wouldn't show off his face

[sinosleep]

LOL, I've been considering downloading fraps, my only issues are 1.) can't actively talk smack while playing, I'd have to do a voice over 2.) I've heard of many people running into frame rate issues when running fraps 3.) using my macbook makes it an all in one process, I film it, and then simply click publish to youtube and it does all the work for me.

[kaff33nd]

All good points. The framerate drop is not noticeable until you start filming tho, and then it's minimal on a kickas ssystem. You can record sound live if you wish, just need a mic and a solution for playing the sound in-game, but FRAPS will record it no problemo.

[Odd Hermit]

Lazareve wrote...

Odd Hermit wrote...

I don't care what you people say I will never play a Vanguard through insanity.

A few videos showing that it's possible which are probably highlights of area in which the person did well in(or possibly did multiple times) to make the video look good aren't going to convince me.

Shotgun sucks and pull, shockwave, cryo ammo are near useless. I played my Vanguard mainly using an SMG and later on the Sniper Rifle.

Then stop posting and move on?

Forums are for discussion?

[sinosleep]

Odd Hermit wrote...

Forums are for discussion?

You're not discussing, you're just dismissing everyone else.

[DarthCaine]

Just because you suck at it, doesn't mean it's bad

I beat ME2 on hardcore with a Vanguard

[Kompaniet gibb]

I'd like to talk skill choices if that's not a hijack of this thread? It seems to be the most evolved VG thread in this new section atleast.

Please give feedback! VG is hard enough on Insanity to warrant some serious thinking about skills in my opinion.

These are my main skill choices and reasons why;

L4 Heavy Charge, I chose to max this before anything else because of the small slowdown of time which allows easier headshots and the 100% shield regen. I did not find Area Charge terribly useful since most groups of enemies I charge into have their protections up and thus are not affected by the pushback.

L4 Passive, I picked the Champion I think, the one that lowers cooldowns. Lowering cooldowns is essential for survival as a VG in my opinion. Being able to repeatedly charge and replenish shields / move around quickly on the battlefield is great. That's also why I see a huge improvement in performance after maxing out the Biotic upgrades.

L4 Reave, I went with Heavy Reave as I find that I mostly use it while softeing up the enemy or dropping it for health regen on a weakened foe, taking cover then proceeding to charge over to another one.. There are plenty of times when Area Reave would hit multiple targets tho, so it might actually be the superior choice DPS-wise. I do not know if healing will multiply with the number of targets, might be so. Remeber; Reave works pretty damn well on Barriers and Armor too. And it does instant damage to them.

Now speccing becomes interesting for me...

I am currently running with max Incinerating ammo up to the Area Effect version. This destroys and incapacitates alot of foes and coupled with the Krogan shotguns absurd damage and long reloadtimes I find it works really well.


I was thinking of going with Pull for usage on already stripped foes, maybe just one level. It has a low CD I think? something like 3 seconds but that's not confirmed. Highly effective vs stripped foes that can hurt you alot... which isnt that many to be honest. Mostly the fire from incinerate and using your cooldown for Charge to replenish shields will keep you alive.

So that's my basic build.


And also the ammo, using squadmates and maxing their ammotype and setting it Squad-wide can be effective and save points. Currently I'm experimenting with Miranda + Jack, squad wide warp ammo and Mirandas skillset is pretty good. Jacks biotics sometimes can be a lifesaver, on the other hand she is very suicidal with her default weapon shotgun and manually reassigning all the time is a small hassle that I dont like.

What are your skill choices and squadmates and the reasons behind them?

Modifié par Kompaniet gibb, 06 février 2010 - 01:03 .

[Odd Hermit]

sinosleep wrote...

Odd Hermit wrote...

Forums are for discussion?

You're not discussing, you're just dismissing everyone else.

I'm not dismissing anyone completely, just saying videos don't prove anything and that overall the Vanguard class still lacks something even if it's possible to complete the game with it. Everyone knows shotguns just don't compare to other weapons which are sort of the unofficial Vanguard weapon despite many people not finding them useful even when playing a Vanguard. The sniper rifle ended up being my best friend once I picked it up on my Vanguard.

Part of the problem could be that each class just does not scale equally @ higher difficulty levels. Adepts are a great example, due to more enemies being largely immune to most Adept abilities on harder difficulties, a problem that the Infilitrator, for example, does not suffer from.

Many enemies also just aren't able to be dealt with using a close range style of play.

[wildamishrose]

sinosleep wrote...

Odd Hermit wrote...

Forums are for discussion?

You're not discussing, you're just dismissing everyone else.

He was just saying he wasn't going to play a vanguard through insanity, which in it's current state, despite cherry picked videos, is a sentiment I totally support.

Playing a vanguard at anything over vetran in this game leads to an incredible number of cheesy deaths, getting stuck on cover, having enemies immediately break stun, or sometimes not even be affected by it only to turn you into mincemeat.

Pretty much the least useful and fun class skill imo.  I expected better, vanguard was always my favorite from mass effect 1.  Most of the time I end up just hiding behind cover pecking at things with an assault rifle, throwing barrier up.

[wepeel_]

I find myself mostly agreeing with the OP as well. Charge certainly feels awesome when you use it, but in the difficult situations, when your team is pinned down by 4-5 shielded guys, there's not much you can do to take the heat off. A soldier or infiltrator for instance could AR/TC and pop up to neutralize the biggest threats, but you're basically stuck using convential pistol fire.

Your signature playstyle really only comes into play when facing 2-3 trash opponents at a time and you can find cover after every charge; or when you're just mopping up the last few guys who aren't any kind of threat to you anyway.

In short, it would be nice with signature moves that were useful when the danger was greatest, the enemies at their most powerful and threatening; rather than the ones that shine when you're already winning.

Modifié par wepeel_, 06 février 2010 - 01:44 .

[sinosleep]

Odd Hermit wrote...

I'm not dismissing anyone completely, just saying videos don't prove anything and that overall the Vanguard class still lacks something even if it's possible to complete the game with it. Everyone knows shotguns just don't compare to other weapons which are sort of the unofficial Vanguard weapon despite many people not finding them useful even when playing a Vanguard. The sniper rifle ended up being my best friend once I picked it up on my Vanguard.

Part of the problem could be that each class just does not scale equally @ higher difficulty levels. Adepts are a great example, due to more enemies being largely immune to most Adept abilities on harder difficulties, a problem that the Infilitrator, for example, does not suffer from.

Many enemies also just aren't able to be dealt with using a close range style of play.

I posted a video here proving you can one shot any standard enemy with the claymore shotgun. How on earth can you see that and still say the shotgun can't compare to other weapons? 

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 février 2010 - 02:18 .

[Odd Hermit]

sinosleep wrote...

Odd Hermit wrote...

I'm not dismissing anyone completely, just saying videos don't prove anything and that overall the Vanguard class still lacks something even if it's possible to complete the game with it. Everyone knows shotguns just don't compare to other weapons which are sort of the unofficial Vanguard weapon despite many people not finding them useful even when playing a Vanguard. The sniper rifle ended up being my best friend once I picked it up on my Vanguard.

Part of the problem could be that each class just does not scale equally @ higher difficulty levels. Adepts are a great example, due to more enemies being largely immune to most Adept abilities on harder difficulties, a problem that the Infilitrator, for example, does not suffer from.

Many enemies also just aren't able to be dealt with using a close range style of play.

I posted a video here proving you can one shot any standard enemy with the claymore shotgun. How on earth can you see that and still say the shotgun can't compare to other weapons? 

I can one shot standard enemies with the sniper rifle from complete safety on my Infilitrator before a Vanguard can come close to closing distance, then charging, then firing off a shot in melee range.
Also tactical cloak gives a large damage bonus to shots taken out of it unlike charge.

What matters is how a class can handle the more difficult enemies with shields and/or armor.

[Kronner]

Odd Hermit wrote...

I can one shot standard enemies with the sniper rifle from complete safety on my Infilitrator before a Vanguard can come close to closing distance, then charging, then firing off a shot in melee range.
Also tactical cloak gives a large damage bonus to shots taken out of it unlike charge.

What matters is how a class can handle the more difficult enemies with shields and/or armor.

Congrats. So play an Infiltrator if that's what you enjoy. sinosleep simply proved that Vanguards do not suck on any difficulty level.

[kappukiino]

Not functional?
Are you kidding me?

I played the game through as vanguard on hardcore and i found it REALLY easy to absolutely dominate enemies with my weapons and especially biotics, obviously vanguard aint quite the charging brute tank, considering if u charge into a group of enemies ure most likely to get killed unless theyre all unarmored or shielded...

But in general i found it easy to combine weapons with biotics... but yea, its not really a tank, just hiding behind cover and throwing biotics and charging when ure not gonna get killed by it

[sinosleep]

Odd Hermit wrote...
I can one shot standard enemies with the sniper rifle from complete safety on my Infilitrator before a Vanguard can come close to closing distance, then charging, then firing off a shot in melee range.
Also tactical cloak gives a large damage bonus to shots taken out of it unlike charge.

What matters is how a class can handle the more difficult enemies with shields and/or armor.

Unless you are sniping them from half the map away I call BS. Charge has a surprisingly long range. As for safety, it means squat to me. As I've said in other threads where this has come up, if the charge doesn't get me killed, and I kill the same enemy at close to the same amount of time as a sniper then who cares about safety? 

[Odd Hermit]

Kronner wrote...

Odd Hermit wrote...

I can one shot standard enemies with the sniper rifle from complete safety on my Infilitrator before a Vanguard can come close to closing distance, then charging, then firing off a shot in melee range.
Also tactical cloak gives a large damage bonus to shots taken out of it unlike charge.

What matters is how a class can handle the more difficult enemies with shields and/or armor.

Congrats. So play an Infiltrator if that's what you enjoy. sinosleep simply proved that Vanguards do not suck on any difficulty level.

I disagree, he just proved that they're not impossible to play in insanity with. Which is true for every class really, the way the shielding + health regen + cover system works if you're careful you could go through most of the game with just the starting pistol if you wanted. As many adepts have pointed out simply spamming warp also works.

Most people seem to agree that Vanguards/Adepts are significantly less fun to play on insanity as the higher difficulty level limits your options with the class a lot more than it does others like Soldiers and Infilitrators.

[Kompaniet gibb]

Infiltrator is great if you love sniping, being methodical and safe, having a get-out-of-jail freecard in stealth and so on. Sentinel is great if you want a ton of raw power and something versatile to throw at all enemies in all situations. Etc.



I love the type of gameplay displayed in sinosleep's vids and you absolutely can do sick stuff vs the more difficult enemies. In fact, I find handling many tough encounters on Insanity to be almost impossible if I don't play super aggressive. Well, atleast hellishly boring.



To me VG is the most fun class, if you just want to argue that the class sucks and not contribute anything maybe you could do so in one of the whine/"balance" threads that already have a few hundred posts. Or compose some well written critisism more directly aimed at the devs.





Personally I just want to have fun and VG on Insanity is definately the most fun for me in this game. If you enjoy something else, play something else. And there are plenty of whinethreads already, don't need more really.

[Kompaniet gibb]

That sounded way more harsh than intended. I apologize for that.



The gist of it is; you can beat almost every encounter by playing extremely aggressive and smart using almost exclusively the shotgun and charge. It is not easy however and one mistake almost always equals death, which does not suit everyone.





Could the Vanguard be better designed to fit more ppl? Yes probably (I don't really know how tho). Do I find it rediculously satisfying to play in this version on Insanity? Yes I do, and a few other guys in this thread do too.

[sinosleep]

Odd Hermit wrote...
I disagree, he just proved that they're not impossible to play in insanity with. Which is true for every class really, the way the shielding + health regen + cover system works if you're careful you could go through most of the game with just the starting pistol if you wanted. As many adepts have pointed out simply spamming warp also works.

Most people seem to agree that Vanguards/Adepts are significantly less fun to play on insanity as the higher difficulty level limits your options with the class a lot more than it does others like Soldiers and Infilitrators.

Here we go again, what on earth do I have to post to make you guys happy? First I get told shotguns suck, so I kill everything with a shotgun and it's not enough. Then I get to told charge sucks, so I kill everything with charge and it's not enough. Don't sit here and act like I changed my playstyle just to squeak by insanity. I played the way that everyone and their mother said was IMPOSSIBLE. I charged, charged, and then charged some more, used a shotgun, and used a steady helping of melee. All things people said vanguards couldn't do at all on insanity. And yet when I do them, people are come in here and try to pass it off as nothing? It's friggen ridiculous. For some people here I could use nothing but charge, kill 40 enemies in 2 minutes and it still wouldn't be enough.

[kaff33nd]

wepeel_ wrote...

Your signature playstyle really only comes into play when facing 2-3 trash opponents at a time and you can find cover after every charge; or when you're just mopping up the last few guys who aren't any kind of threat to you anyway.

In short, it would be nice with signature moves that were useful when the danger was greatest, the enemies at their most powerful and threatening; rather than the ones that shine when you're already winning.

This ^

In the official 'fight for the lost' vids, or even in cutscenes, we see squad members doing things that are awesome and inspiring. For example, when we first saw Jack in her intro vid she was absolutely owning everything with her biotics. Even pulling a heavy mech into the air, and in-game the cutscene shows her smashing her way through anything in her way, but this is rubbish.  Max out slam and try doing anything to a heavy mech. Impossible. Yes it makes it glow blue, but it doesn't lift off the ground, let alone slam back down again.
Signature moves should be utterly devastating to the strongest boss, but have a longer c/d IMO. lol we could even have a power bar for biotics so you could charge it up to get varying effects. That would be sweet. Hmmm... that's actually a good idea. <_<