279 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Odd Hermit, what enemy, EXACTLY where you getting rid of barriers/shields on?

[Kurupt87]

odd hermit, it sounds like vanguard just isn't the class for you. you seem to prefer sitting back and picking off targets, to the extent that you picked up the sniper rifle for the close combat specialist -.- just play sentinel/infiltrator/soldier, they'd seem to fit your playstyle better. i enjoy VG and soldier/sentinel most because i can get up close and personal, i dont enjoy infiltrator/adept because i have to hang back. guess which classes i play.

as for VG on insanity, yeah its challenging, but charge/melee/shotgun makes mincemeat out of most things, even with full defences, and thats with the 2nd shotty. the only problem with it i found is the near uselessness of pull/shockwave/cryo ammo, to use them they need to be stripped of defences, and to do that you need to go mental in the face at them up close, and when your doing that you need your cd's for charge. people seem to moan about dying alot with VG, and well yeah its gonna hppen more often that other classes because you get right up close to the enemy alot, so you gotta expect it sometimes, but you should just be more careful with your charges.

and heh, if you want a real challenge play VG on a NG+ with a lvl 30 char, that is hard.

[RamsenC]

I'm sure everything has been said at this point and I don't want to read this entire thread, but heres a tip for playing Vanguard.



When charging the enemy in front of you is too dangerous do the opposite and charge the enemy furthest from your location. Be sure to check the radar to make sure you know how many enemies there are before you do this. You should zoom past the bulk of the enemies and kill the straggler. At this point you can take his cover and start attacking the enemies from behind while they are focused on your squad.



Also do not be afraid to charge. You must remember charge refills your shield, so its essentially defense and offense in one ability. Playing Vanguard is more like Ninja Gaiden while every other class is Gears of War.



I feel like the amount of people that can actually play Vanguard can be counted on one hand D:

[DaySeeker]

I like the idea of the Vanguard, but I too had trouble playing him. I was told I could charge away, but I guess there needs to be an enemy behind me to do this. Yes I can charge enemies in front of me, but sometimes they end up behind me and then it takes too long to shoot them, sometimes I want to charge, but for some reason I cannot and have not been able to figure out when I can and can't make it through a barrier or over a gap, and finally, great I can defeat one enemy (after I have busted down their barrier and shield), but now I am out of cover and three more enemies appear shooting at me.



My suggestions: if we can not break barriers and shields with the charge then we should instead knock those suckers back- like a push and break their protection. Two: we should be able to charge to positions behind cover, this would aid in strategic placement in battle and not just make charge the thing you can do to that one guy at the end of battle who is almost dead anyway.

[sinosleep]

Well, I caved and got fraps, here's a newly done fraps edition of the original charge is fun vid. Now featuring no use of overload whatsoever.

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Looks good.



I'm about to start a Vanguard. What order did you do your talents in?

[Vikotoru]

sinosleep wrote...

Well, I caved and got fraps, here's a newly done fraps edition of the original charge is fun vid. Now featuring no use of overload whatsoever.

www.youtube.com/watch

Good job!, I missed in the video the unreal tournament voice: Unstoppable!! Killing Spree!!

Thank you for showing the power of charge to the non-believers.

Modifié par Vikotoru, 06 février 2010 - 06:03 .

[rumination888]

sinosleep wrote...

Well, I caved and got fraps, here's a newly done fraps edition of the original charge is fun vid. Now featuring no use of overload whatsoever.

www.youtube.com/watch

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn you clear rooms fast with the Vanguard. The fact that you were one shot away from dying at one point made the video even more epic.

[boogu168]

I agree that it's very useless on insanity but I was able to make it work on hardcore. It's easy if you know the correct combos and upgrade enough. But then again, I did have my vanguard fully upgraded by the time I played hardcore, and If you have armor piercing ammo with the shot gun it will do a good amount of damage. Also heres a little secret area charge is almost completely useless. If you use heavy charge it lines up you gun with you enemies head(unless your up against a flying enemy or a scion but, who would be dumb enough to use charge on a scion). Charge is a good ability if used correctly but I do admit sentinel is better. What would make charge a better ability is if it did much more damage. If you want to use the vanguard make sure you keep in mind that it does little damage to barriers but does a lot of damage to health, It does an okay amount of damage to armor.

[boogu168]

sinosleep wrote...

Well, I caved and got fraps, here's a newly done fraps edition of the original charge is fun vid. Now featuring no use of overload whatsoever.

www.youtube.com/watch

great job! That is the true power of vanguard! :ph34r:

[Kompaniet gibb]

sinosleep basically showing how it's done! And you most definately can do that to sections of the game that you see for the first time, with good use of radar and taking a small pause behind cover to think your moves thru. However it is a fact that if you screw up even the slightest you'll be dead.



Of course the difficulty can be turned down a notch by using your squads abilities alot also (which sinosleep doesnt do to prove a point).



Peace! WP sinosleep.

[SonsofNorthWind]

Not taking anything away from a well-played vanguard, but it does look like some of the safety of the character is provided by incendiary rounds causing panic on human foes. Do you find your playstyle equally applicable to non-panicking enemies (IIRC, collectors and all inorganics)?

[elucid07]

Kronner wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

Kronner wrote...

It IS functional. I completed the game on both Hardcore and Insanity without any problems. I am now playing NG+ on Insanity and it is much harder, but still doable. So please do not say BS like Vanguard is useless on Hardcore or Insanity.

This is a debate page. I posted the OP because I wanted a response and a discussion on it. I presented my observations and I'm giving other people a chance to post their views on the subject. I'm not saying "Vanguard blows uGGHHHHH FACE" I'm saying, "Hey vanguard doesn't seem very functional, here are my reasons. Do you agree with me or not? How come? Lets talk."

Yes, and I disagree with you completly. Vanguard is a killing machine when used correctly.
I did also complete the game as a Sentinel on Insanity and yes, it was safer, but on the other hand boring, I had no fear of dying.
Vanguard presents challenge, but it works incredibly well if you get used to it.
Let's look at Vanguard skills:
Inferno ammo - very useful, prevents regeneration, organic targets panic
Cryo ammo - fun to use on lower difficulty levels, but useless on Insanity imho
Heavy Charge is very effective and superior to Area Charge, on Insanity.
Champion is standard passive skill, imho better than Destroyer because of cooldown reduction.
Pull - useless on Insanity
Improved Shockwave - good only against husks after you strip their armor off with SMG
Bonus talent - useful either way

Does not look that bad.

Pull is not useless on insanity - quicker CD than shockwave, and area pull easily knocks out packs of husks after you spray them with an smg.

[sinosleep]

SonsofNorthWind wrote...

Not taking anything away from a well-played vanguard, but it does look like some of the safety of the character is provided by incendiary rounds causing panic on human foes. Do you find your playstyle equally applicable to non-panicking enemies (IIRC, collectors and all inorganics)?

Yeah, later on I switch to tungsten rounds and the claymore which finishes those enemies in one shot, so they don't have the chance to panic.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[Kronner]

elucid07 wrote...

Pull is not useless on insanity - quicker CD than shockwave, and area pull easily knocks out packs of husks after you spray them with an smg.

After you strip off their shields, Shockwave kills them insantly.

[aimlessgun]

Kronner wrote...

elucid07 wrote...

Pull is not useless on insanity - quicker CD than shockwave, and area pull easily knocks out packs of husks after you spray them with an smg.

After you strip off their shields, Shockwave kills them insantly.

Well pull is definitely not useless because it can really 'kill' anything without defenses.

Most of my fights on insanity past early game went: Double teammate nuke as pull is in air, 1 enemy down instantly, snipe+pull, enemy 2 down, redo double nuke pull for the 3rd enemy and then deal with the rest however you want. So 3 enemies down with no real risk in the first 12s of the fight seems fairly good to me, but maybe my standards are off.

[Kronner]

aimlessgun wrote...

Kronner wrote...

elucid07 wrote...

Pull is not useless on insanity - quicker CD than shockwave, and area pull easily knocks out packs of husks after you spray them with an smg.

After you strip off their shields, Shockwave kills them insantly.

Well pull is definitely not useless because it can really 'kill' anything without defenses.

Most of my fights on insanity past early game went: Double teammate nuke as pull is in air, 1 enemy down instantly, snipe+pull, enemy 2 down, redo double nuke pull for the 3rd enemy and then deal with the rest however you want. So 3 enemies down with no real risk in the first 12s of the fight seems fairly good to me, but maybe my standards are off.

Enemies without any kind of defense are very easy to kill, using pull on them is a waste.
btw what do you mean by "teammate nuke"?

[ralx22]

I haven't read every post in this thread but i think the main reason why the vanguard isn't as capable on the higher difficulties is mainly due to the way biotics functions in ME 2 compared to ME 1. The fact that your bitoics are completely ineffective against enemies while their defenses are up is just a big drawback to the appeal of the class.

Its understandable that defenses were implemented to make the game more challenging and tatical but if biotics had at least a chance to effect enemies while their defenses are up would go a long ways to improve the vanguard class.

Imagine seeing a group of baddies bunched up together, instead of charging into that group and possibly dieing, you could use shockwave or pull field to spread them out and then charge and take them out one by one before they have a chance to stand up. With the way powers are implemented now, you have to first break down defenses beforehand but by the time you do so you it becomes somewhat pointless to use your biotics because they'll die in 2 to 3 shots anyway.
Basically, the devs should make it so that the defenses of the enemies cause biotics to be less effective or have a smaller chance of working on them, but complete immunity is just ridiculous they way it is now.

Modifié par ralx22, 06 février 2010 - 07:42 .

[Average Gatsby]

sinosleep wrote...

Well, I caved and got fraps, here's a newly done fraps edition of the original charge is fun vid. Now featuring no use of overload whatsoever.

www.youtube.com/watch

I'm Adding this to the OP.

Also I need to add a note on a common concern/complaint/charge mentioned here:

kaff33nd wrote...

Oh, and sinosleep, what you do doesn't
apply to us normal people. Jeez, I watched that vid you posted with my
jaw hangin' as there's no way in hell I can play like that!

Please note, I'm not picking on kaff33nd, I'm just bringing up the argument of "I don't think normal/most/I could play on Insanity that well with the VG"

That statement isn't really a reason why the Vanguard doesn't work as intended. Sinosleep's vids show that it is definitely possible to act as the way the Vanguard was intended. Also, I've found that one can actually pause and make this work as well, so you don't have to be a beast with reflexes. Anyway, just wanted to point that out.

[sinosleep]

SonsofNorthWind wrote...

Not taking anything away from a well-played vanguard, but it does look like some of the safety of the character is provided by incendiary rounds causing panic on human foes. Do you find your playstyle equally applicable to non-panicking enemies (IIRC, collectors and all inorganics)?

I know I already replied to you, but I decided to add another vid since its relevant here. Even before upgrading to the claymore and tungsten ammo (which I will have very soon) collector's ain't got nothing against charge.

www.youtube.com/watch

[jmark22]

sinosleep wrote...

I decided to add another vid since its relevant here. Even before upgrading to the claymore and tungsten ammo (which I will have very soon) collector's ain't got nothing against charge.

www.youtube.com/watch

Nice job.  I thought it was hilarious that at the beginning Harbinger says, "We are superior, I know you feel this...", and then you just freaking own all of them in about 60 seconds.  I think after something like that Shepard should say, "Who's superior now, b****?"

[SirValeq]

sinosleep wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Epic!

[_Dannok1234]

Really fun vid's. Inspired by Sinosleep I had to go back and try to do it as smooth. Almost working, but have to admit my aching bones need a bit of pausing now and then.



Also funny, I redid levels with this vanguard that I just played through as a sentinel. (insanity obviously). Not only did I do 'em much much faster, they were easier.

Hopefully more people will see the vid's Sinosleep has posted and we won't have endless amounts of threads whining about the most fun class

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I didn't have this problem while playing as a vanguard. There were a few battles that were intense where I thought I would died but I managed to come out alive. Its a rush of a way to play.

[mundus66]

Charge is fine as it is imo, the only things which suck with vanguards are Cyro Ammo (it sucks for everybody) and biotics, pull and shockwave.



Hopefully Bioware will boost biotics which should change that issue, anyway charge is fine it works great in fact, you just have to learn how to use it. If there was one thing i would like to see change though it would be the claymore. Seriously make it have 2 bullets instead of one.



I've played through the game with every class but the engineer so far (working on it) and vanguard is most definitely the most fun and the fastest class. I play almost exclusively on Insanity, but i started of the game on hardcore with my first character, which was a vanguard (switched to insanity a bit after horizon and never changed back). Anyway, i was basically only using charge shotgun and squad powers when i was playing so i really don't see what peoples problem with vanguards is.



They have a harder time getting through the game than some classes but the character design isn't flawed, just biotics and cyro ammo, problems which other classes also have. So learn to play and stop ****ing vanguard = awesome but risky as they where intended.