279 réponses à ce sujet

[AdamNW]

Vanguard w/ Assault Rifles and Warp Ammo make a deadly combo.

Hell, even the Hand Cannon removes armor in one shot with Warp Ammo, let's not even think about the damage being done with the Scimitar.

Modifié par AdamNW, 06 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[mundus66]

Inferno ammo is better vs armor than warp ammo. So either get armor piercing rounds or reave.

[_Dannok1234]

Here's my failed and clumsy attempt to replicate sinosleep's awesome vid.



First part, I had about 16 fps, so had to pause or it simply wasn't doable, then I pretty much gave up making a decent vid, as the frame rate was killing me.But after a go at the final battle, I had to give a go to capturing it on fraps. Had to try it 4 times and kept on lowering the resolution and turning off shadows etc, before I became successful at it.



But learned something useful I think. Which is that framerate is pretty important when playing a vanguard, which I think translates to reflexes and good mouse control being very important.

So anyone without good reflexes and accurate mouse. Pause pause pause and it's all gravy.

[serjwolf]

i agree with OP

thats why im a sentinel on my Insanity run

[mundus66]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Here's my failed and clumsy attempt to replicate sinosleep's awesome vid.

First part, I had about 16 fps, so had to pause or it simply wasn't doable, then I pretty much gave up making a decent vid, as the frame rate was killing me.But after a go at the final battle, I had to give a go to capturing it on fraps. Had to try it 4 times and kept on lowering the resolution and turning off shadows etc, before I became successful at it.

But learned something useful I think. Which is that framerate is pretty important when playing a vanguard, which I think translates to reflexes and good mouse control being very important.
So anyone without good reflexes and accurate mouse. Pause pause pause and it's all gravy.

"ok" you where doing pretty good until you charge that heavy mech why the hell would you wanna do that? Just shoot at it with a submachine gun, im as reckless as they come i even charge scions, but heavy mechs is never a good idea not even on lower difficulites.

[_Dannok1234]

I was charging everything else in that mission, I didn't want the mech to feel left out. Besides, I wanted to see if I could do it

[sinosleep]

Dannok1234 wrote...

I was charging everything else in that mission, I didn't want the mech to feel left out. Besides, I wanted to see if I could do it

God job man. The more of us posting these kinds of vids, the less harping about the class we'll see.

[Peer of the Empire]

edited

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 07 février 2010 - 12:35 .

[thisisme8]

kaff33nd wrote...

I feel there is a point being missed in all this... Nobody can say sinosleep isn't bloody brilliant in playing the vanguard well. But sinosleep is not a very good representation of players' skill. I would wager that he's better than most of us in this regard, and as such, is not a good voice for this argument. If we could all play like him this thread wouldn't exist. Balanced gameplay design shouldn't be (and isn't) based on a single elite player's ability to play it; it is based on how most people play it. Otherwise BioWare could just employ the very best player in the world to play their games, and upon their success or failure deem the game playable. Alas, I am NOT sinosleep and I don't have any illusions of being anywhere near as good as him at playing the vanguard. I find it downright frustrating at harder difficulty levels to play this class the way it was meant to be played. That is, in-your-face combat. Rant over.

It is Insanity level, after all.  If you aren't as good or feel you need work to be able to play like that, then go down to Hardcore.  There is nothing wrong with that.  None of the classes breeze through Insanity level with lesser skilled players.  Sure, some are easier than others, but it will still require some skill.

I just felt like it was worth mentioning that we are talking about a level of play called 'Insanity.'

[Rykimaruh]

Yeah, I feel the same as TC. A vanguard is more like angry viking charging at his enemies.Most of the time I spend it behind walls, Reason is because you have a dozen enemies focus firing at you...which kinda makes it impossible.

[aimlessgun]

Kronner wrote...

Enemies without any kind of defense are very easy to kill, using pull on them is a waste.
btw what do you mean by "teammate nuke"?

Not sure I understand your reasoning. Using pull on anything with defenses is a waste obviously. Things without defenses, would you rather kill them instantly with one ability that curves around cover, or actually have to waste a few shots on them?

Teammate nuke means nukes your teammates have. Warp/conc shot/overload.

[Effay]

Okay, I retract what I said.

I'm currently doing alright as a vanguard on insanity as a New Game+, importing my 'cannon' Vanguard I used with my first play through. I picked armor piercing ammo, and Tungsten ammo as it's fully upgraded form. I seriously have no idea how you could even POSSIBLY play without having charge and assault mastery maxed out, picking the one that decreases cooldown time for assault mastery. Every time I"ve died (besides me just doing something dumb) is because my charge didn't quite recharge in time. The only guys that give me trouble are heavy weapon guys. I always manage to run into their rockets, and they're always as far away as possible.

Though, I seriously have no idea how you'd go about fighting the boss at the end of grunt's recruitment mission...

[Sidney]

Rykimaruh wrote...

Yeah, I feel the same as TC. A vanguard is more like angry viking charging at his enemies.Most of the time I spend it behind walls, Reason is because you have a dozen enemies focus firing at you...which kinda makes it impossible.

Yeah my Vanguard got loads easier once I respeced him to focus on Shockwave and not Charge. My the end of the game Shockwave was devestating, I loved seeing husks, but charge remained very sparsely used.

[thisisme8]

Effay wrote...

Okay, I retract what I said.

I'm currently doing alright as a vanguard on insanity as a New Game+, importing my 'cannon' Vanguard I used with my first play through. I picked armor piercing ammo, and Tungsten ammo as it's fully upgraded form. I seriously have no idea how you could even POSSIBLY play without having charge and assault mastery maxed out, picking the one that decreases cooldown time for assault mastery. Every time I"ve died (besides me just doing something dumb) is because my charge didn't quite recharge in time. The only guys that give me trouble are heavy weapon guys. I always manage to run into their rockets, and they're always as far away as possible.

Though, I seriously have no idea how you'd go about fighting the boss at the end of grunt's recruitment mission...

I had the my squaddies focus fire on the YMIR Mech first while I took out the Krogans.  After that, we all teamed up on the Boss.

A little note about Sinosleep's vid...  I just noticed he (you, if you're reading Sinosleep) uses the 10% headshot damage headgear.  Never would have thought of that even though I always aim for the head after charging.  Nice call.  He's officially my Vanguard hero.

[BlackFox26]

Ya I tried the whole advertised charge, melee, then shotgun the guy and you definitely don't get out of there as easy as i thought. Trying the game in hardcore mode after i beat the game my first time.. i was kinda afraid to use charge even though it was the first thing i maxed out. Because really.. i heavy charge melee and shotgun.. The guy  IS Still alive.. and o sh t vanguard dont got that much armor even with fortification from grunt. So i'm in trouble Ya the ideas great, the ability is good, just hoped get more armor or something to get out of there quicker especially on higher difficulties . on normal its not a problem and on hardcore with upgrades its not that bad either, but insanity is probably where charge is only smart when used against one guy with your 2 squad partners locked with concussion shot or some mega damage just in case you would die. +medigel happy

[Sidney]

BlackFox26 wrote...

Ya I tried the whole advertised charge, melee, then shotgun the guy and you definitely don't get out of there as easy as i thought. Trying the game in hardcore mode after i beat the game my first time.. i was kinda afraid to use charge even though it was the first thing i maxed out. Because really.. i heavy charge melee and shotgun.. The guy  IS Still alive.. and o sh t vanguard dont got that much armor even with fortification from grunt.

Should have given the vanguard barrier or fortifcation ot tech armor or something to keep them alive. If they are supposed to be the up close and personal killers they certainly didn't come equipped for the job.

[Rykimaruh]

My build is:

4/4 inferno ammo aoe

1/4 cryo ammo

4/4 charge aoe

2/4 sw(shockwave)

3/4 Pull

4/4 Destroyer

4/4 HB(Heavy Barrier) Bonus power



I used barrier since it saved me countless times from dying with low hp, plus thought that since I'll charge, my shield will go down easy so I'd need an extra shield boost just in case. Also playing in HC so imagine...

[RamsenC]

I used to be on board with picking Reave as a bonus power, but because of the global cooldowns I rarely use it. Almost every cooldown is dedicated to charging so going a passive power like AP ammo is probably the best bet. Barrier is the worst because it has the longest cooldown thus slowing the charge train down. Probably not the most efficient choice since you already have inferno ammo and Garrus can give you squad AP ammo, but honestly Vanguard does not need a bonus power.



I also have a video, its only 30 seconds long because I don't own fraps, but no one seems to have AR vanguard videos so here it is. I probably play a little more carefully than sinosleep though so it won't be as exciting. Yes its on insanity.

[Rizzen203]

For me the vangaurd more than functions, he does his job perfect.



Once you master charging, which is a very reload heavy process mind you, you become a dominating force in battle. Shotguns are my cup of tea as well, people may claim others are better, but I do fine with my Claymore, I call mine Burtha.



Shockwave you can move while casting, making melee only mobs laughable.



Pull, alright, when you can use it, it is kinda pointless, but still makes me smile when I pull someone than greeting him with Burtha.

[AlloutAce]

As far as the dying too quickly, i agree completely. By level 20, I had completely stopped using the shotgun in favor of the Vindicator, this Isn't the weapon your supposed too use for the vanguard, but i still did pretty well. When I did use the Charge/Shotgun combo, It was very effective, but as levels progressed i soon found my shotgun was not putting out enough damage quickly, which allowed the enemy to kill me.



If anything they should allow a short damage boost after a charge, would seem like the simplest solution to me. But I'm hardly a expert.

[smudgedhorizon]

I always played a Vanguard Femshep in ME1. I finished the game with all the classes and the Vanguard was my favourite. I really hated what they did to the character build in ME2. To misquote Joker, it's like game cancer, I don't want to talk about it. XD

[stillnotking]

Thanks to those who posted videos, especially sinosleep. Really changed my mind about the viability of the class on Insanity.

I think what I was doing wrong (probably what a lot of people do wrong) was using Charge and then trying to get to cover rather than lining up another Charge right away. The habit of looking for cover constantly dies hard. I may have to try a full Insanity playthrough sometime with a Vanguard. I'm interested to see how it handles certain areas -- may take some creativity.

[jaff00]

Vanguard = fun factor. Even though the playing style is entirely different compared to ME1 (gimping biotics to kill vanguard/adept cc abilities was a good move imo. too ****** easy otherwise), I actually enjoyed playing one in ME2 more.

You can make chargespam work on insanity but tbh I've found it to be very situational (i.e you need to be able to charge one mob without ending up being bent over a barrel for the remaining mobs) which obviously requires some luck with regards to mob- and cover placement - and that you more or less know the environment off the top of your head, or at least took a few moments to 'study' the area. While I won't go so far as to say that charge -doesn't- work in some areas, I personally just forego using it in certain engagements 'cause the scene always ends with my pretty Shep's body-powdered bottom smacking the floor. (that is to say in those areas I only charge after I've picked off most of the plebs)

So in short - totally entertaining and absolutely killer in some areas but over the length of the whole campaign the vanguard can't really hold a candle to the infiltrator with regards to killing speed in my experience. Widow solves.

[Pockymuncher777]

I just beat the game on insanity with vanguard. Played it as a new game+ (which is actually harder than regular insanity because you have no upgrades yet the enemies start at high level). There were one or two frustrating parts but it didn't take that many tries. Charge is useful defensively and sometimes offensively it's useful too.



For example on the collector ship where you get bum rushed on the platforms I used charged and blast their faces in with my krogan shotgun. Was risky but you can do it.



If you can't beat it in hardcore or insanity with vanguard maybe you just suck at the game.

[_Dannok1234]

Here's another vid. Doing the first 1/3rd of the collector base on insanity, only using charge. Included my deaths so you can see I'm not that good a player.

Point of the vid is to show that anyone can do this, and charge works really really well on insanity. I don't think I'll be doing that part as fast when I get there with my sentinel. (if I don't get bored first).



Oh yeah, I can only capture 30 seconds at a time as I haven't bought fraps. I tried using the frame rate as a timer, but I wasn't always successful at it, so it gets a bit choppy in places, and the last fight I basically bypassed by charging an enemy close to the valve and just legging it.

So for whatever it's worth :