279 réponses à ce sujet

[Kompaniet gibb]

That was a nice vid Dannok, shows that you can pause and think on the fly which is useful in facing hard encounters. Krogan SG really makes a world of difference for me tho using that playstyle, just slays all.

[Sapienti]

When I first played ME1 I was a straight soldier for my 4 original playthroughs (Though I was interested, the other classes never sparked my interest I guess) then before ME2 came out I saw the Vangaurd video and was like "I really want to use charge!". So I played through ME1 on vanguard to get ready for this game and when it came out I was playing as reckless as I could just for the thrill of it. Though I was only on Veteran I admit. I'm halfway through on my second playthrough on Hardcore and I guess my "playstyle" is similar to Sino's though I wasn't as ballsy on the Horizon mission.

First playthrough I picked up the Claymore with the rationale "Well my class is supposed to be good with these so why not" second playthrough someone had told me I should have gotten the widow because its so much better and the other guns aren't that much better than their predecessors and stuff. At first I was convinced they were right then last night I busted that thing out on the Collector ship against Harbinger. The end.

You pretty much have to go into the Vanguard class with that kind of mentality. High risk high reward. First playthrough I ran through ignorant and relied on skill (and logic when deciding what skills to level up) to get me through it. It sort of helped me break/avoid this mental barrier that stops a lot of would be vanguards from reaching their potential.

My build revolved around heavy charge. Its enough to get the 1-3 guys hiding behind a crate and the slow down plus reflexes should make short work everything else. However, I have the game for 360 so I can't really post a fraps vid, all I can offer is word advice, so I'm relying on people like Sino to carry weight behind their posts.

[mundus66]

Sapienti wrote...

When I first played ME1 I was a straight soldier for my 4 original playthroughs (Though I was interested, the other classes never sparked my interest I guess) then before ME2 came out I saw the Vangaurd video and was like "I really want to use charge!". So I played through ME1 on vanguard to get ready for this game and when it came out I was playing as reckless as I could just for the thrill of it. Though I was only on Veteran I admit. I'm halfway through on my second playthrough on Hardcore and I guess my "playstyle" is similar to Sino's though I wasn't as ballsy on the Horizon mission.

First playthrough I picked up the Claymore with the rationale "Well my class is supposed to be good with these so why not" second playthrough someone had told me I should have gotten the widow because its so much better and the other guns aren't that much better than their predecessors and stuff. At first I was convinced they were right then last night I busted that thing out on the Collector ship against Harbinger. The end.

You pretty much have to go into the Vanguard class with that kind of mentality. High risk high reward. First playthrough I ran through ignorant and relied on skill (and logic when deciding what skills to level up) to get me through it. It sort of helped me break/avoid this mental barrier that stops a lot of would be vanguards from reaching their potential.

My build revolved around heavy charge. Its enough to get the 1-3 guys hiding behind a crate and the slow down plus reflexes should make short work everything else. However, I have the game for 360 so I can't really post a fraps vid, all I can offer is word advice, so I'm relying on people like Sino to carry weight behind their posts.

Only Infiltrator and Soldier can get widow AFAIK.

[_Dannok1234]

Thanks Gibb

Since this has turned into sort of general vanguard discussion and advice thread.
Has anyone done any testing with AP ammo? My own limited tests has showed that the damage increase you get from AP vs Inferno is tiny and mostly irrelevant. At least when using the scimitar. I was trying it out against Geth hunters and the tech type ones. The only difference I could find was that I used one shot more on the hunter using inferno rounds, the basic ones died to 2 shots regardless.

Could be that the difference is bigger when using the krogan shotgun tho. I don't know. But considering how good Inferno is against organics it just didn't seem worthwhile to me.
I have a feeling that the inferno ammo actually gives a bonus to health damage as well, or there should be more difference.

About shotguns in general:
Scimitar 81.9x2=163,8 per shot at point blank. 5 shots takes 3 seconds. Damage done 819
Claymore 200.4x2=400,8 per shot at point blank, 2 shot takes 3 seconds. Damage done 801,6 .

As you see time wise it's not that big a difference in terms of killing speed. That and with the Scimitar your enemies won't be shooting back at you due to the flinching from the shotgun. So it's the safer choice, plus you get the Vindicator

Modifié par Dannok1234, 07 février 2010 - 10:55 .

[Kompaniet gibb]

Cool, how did you end up with those dmg numbers?

[_Dannok1234]

http://www.gamefaqs....le/944906/58941

That will give you the stats for each weapon. But the Claymore ROF in that list is way off.

Edit: Just noticed that the thing over was actually incorrect.

Getting off two shots with the Claymore takes 2 seconds, since first shot is instant. Making it ahead of the Scimitar by a fair margin.

So after 2 seconds it goes like this:
Claymore : 801,6
Scimitar : 655,2

Make it 2.4 seconds though and the Scimitar is back on top. (five shots)

Modifié par Dannok1234, 07 février 2010 - 11:57 .

[Sapienti]

mundus66 wrote...



Only Infiltrator and Soldier can get widow AFAIK.

Ah ok, well either way I was competely clueless most of my playthrough, until Mordin died at the very end sigh. I even lost all of my crew members because I didn't know there was a time/mission limit. But thats a topic for another thread lol. 

[Kronner]

Dannok1234 wrote...

http://www.gamefaqs....le/944906/58941

That will give you the stats for each weapon. But the Claymore ROF in that list is way off.

Edit: Just noticed that the thing over was actually incorrect.

Getting off two shots with the Claymore takes 2 seconds, since first shot is instant. Making it ahead of the Scimitar by a fair margin.

So after 2 seconds it goes like this:
Claymore : 801,6
Scimitar : 655,2

Make it 2.4 seconds though and the Scimitar is back on top. (five shots)

2.4 seconds? What for? With the Krogan Shotgun any normal opponent is dead after the first shot. Boss enemies take 2 shots (plus melee attack if you do not hit their head). (on Insanity of course)

Modifié par Kronner, 07 février 2010 - 01:30 .

[BattleVisor]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Getting off two shots with the Claymore takes 2 seconds, since first shot is instant. Making it ahead of the Scimitar by a fair margin.

So after 2 seconds it goes like this:
Claymore : 801,6
Scimitar : 655,2

Make it 2.4 seconds though and the Scimitar is back on top. (five shots)

First point made by the above poster, and you're not going to able to shoot that long, whilst being exposed, especially on insanity.

THe vanguard I believe is a shock and awe class, you have to hit hard when you find an opening, and then quickly retreat get back into cover, barrier/fortification is a must and charge is useful here in most situations.
Thought there will be times, where you will bound to die with such high risk.

[_Dannok1234]

BattleVisor, pretty much none of that is accurate. My point was that the Scimitar is a perfectly viable alternative to the Claymore, and personally I find it safer/easier to use, as I tend to miss a shot every now and then. I'd rather have to wait 0.6 for the next shot rather then 2 seconds.



To take an example of a couple of things that take a fair amount of fire power. Geth hunters die in 4-5 shots from the scimitar and I guess 2 from the claymore. Another is the Eclips vanguards/biotics. The latter being far safer to tackle with the Scimitar as they won't fire back as long as you keep pumping rounds into them. So you'll actually take less damage using the Scimitar then you do with the Claymore.



Barrier/Fortification etc, doesn't add anything at all to a charging Vanguard, and believe me I've had more then enough success with my weapon choices on insanity

[stjasonl1]

 Sorry I haven't read this whole board but I found Insanity to be too hard for the quest to get mordin, but I treid again and got Zaeed Loyal before going to get Mordin and it made it WAY easier you need the Grenade to kill the vorcha easily also put points in inferno ammo and Insanity with Vangaurd starts feeling like veteran. 

[Kompaniet gibb]

Which extra power is everyones favourite for Vanguard?

I've used Reave now for a long time but I basically only enjoy it's benefits while I'm crouching behind cover softening up a particularily hard bunch of foes... which is not my preferred position to say the least.



Would one of the ammos (Warp or AP comes to mind) be a better option? Or perhaps Dominate?

Curious on what you guys use!



Regards from Sweden,

gibb

[Odd Hermit]

Kompaniet gibb wrote...

Which extra power is everyones favourite for Vanguard?
I've used Reave now for a long time but I basically only enjoy it's benefits while I'm crouching behind cover softening up a particularily hard bunch of foes... which is not my preferred position to say the least.

Would one of the ammos (Warp or AP comes to mind) be a better option? Or perhaps Dominate?
Curious on what you guys use!

Regards from Sweden,
gibb

I settled on reave with mine, otherwise you don't have any good ways of stripping defenses except shooting them off. Mainly for things like scions, praetorians, etc.

It's also good for controlling enemies with no shield/armor, and even for the health. It saved my Vanguard every once in awhile for the bonus health.

Reave is the most versatile ability in the game IMO, I bet you could take a character with only reave and the basic weapons through insanity.

Modifié par Odd Hermit, 07 février 2010 - 05:07 .

[monkeyisbest]

I dont know about most of you guys, but i hate Charge

I love the vangaurd class because it has shockwave and cryo/fire ammo.
I gave my vangaurd barrier.
I used charge like 2 times the whole game...... it's a complete waste of an ability.....

I play with the vangaurd abilities but i don't run and gun with the shotgun... i stay back and direct my squadmates and wittle away at the enemies with the sMG and Assault rifle......


The game is nasty.... but i hate charge... i wish you could skill swap... iNEVER use charge... it's almost completely useless on insane becuase everyone has shields and armour

[_Dannok1234]

Watch the vid's thats been posted in this thread Monkeyisbest and you'll pick up a thing or two, that might change your mind.



As for bonus power, I suppose you could go with an ammo power. Ap ammo is probably a small boost somewhere, anything else is basically something you'll use from behind cover, drone, reave, dominate they all work. Even not using anything is fine hehe

[thisisme8]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Thanks Gibb

Since this has turned into sort of general vanguard discussion and advice thread.
Has anyone done any testing with AP ammo? My own limited tests has showed that the damage increase you get from AP vs Inferno is tiny and mostly irrelevant. At least when using the scimitar. I was trying it out against Geth hunters and the tech type ones. The only difference I could find was that I used one shot more on the hunter using inferno rounds, the basic ones died to 2 shots regardless.

Could be that the difference is bigger when using the krogan shotgun tho. I don't know. But considering how good Inferno is against organics it just didn't seem worthwhile to me.
I have a feeling that the inferno ammo actually gives a bonus to health damage as well, or there should be more difference.

About shotguns in general:
Scimitar 81.9x2=163,8 per shot at point blank. 5 shots takes 3 seconds. Damage done 819
Claymore 200.4x2=400,8 per shot at point blank, 2 shot takes 3 seconds. Damage done 801,6 .

As you see time wise it's not that big a difference in terms of killing speed. That and with the Scimitar your enemies won't be shooting back at you due to the flinching from the shotgun. So it's the safer choice, plus you get the Vindicator

The big difference I noticed with the weapons and ammo types is that with Inferno Rounds the damage is over 3 or 4 seconds.  With AP Rounds, the damage is immediate.  AP Rounds + Claymore = Very high burst damage, and the AP/Claymore combination gives the Vanguard the one thing he really doesn't have:  strength vs. armor.

I actually go so far as to say that the Vanguard on Veteran and below doesn't even need a bonus talent.  On Hardcore+, the AP ammo wins out.  I won't argue over which Shotgun is better though since I think they are balanced enough to accomodate different tastes.  I.E. Rapid fire Assault shotgun, Heavy damage Claymore, and the Katana which is more in between.  I just prefer the Claymore.

Another interesting note:  If you turn on Squad Cryo ammo, you can actually switch back to Inferno/AP ammo and your Squad will stay on Cryo.  It's what I do (especially since Miranda/Mordin don't have an ammo ability) and you'd be surprised on how many enemies end up being frozen on Hardcore/Insanity...  ripe for shattering.

[thisisme8]

monkeyisbest wrote...

I dont know about most of you guys, but i hate Charge

I love the vangaurd class because it has shockwave and cryo/fire ammo.
I gave my vangaurd barrier.
I used charge like 2 times the whole game...... it's a complete waste of an ability.....

I play with the vangaurd abilities but i don't run and gun with the shotgun... i stay back and direct my squadmates and wittle away at the enemies with the sMG and Assault rifle......


The game is nasty.... but i hate charge... i wish you could skill swap... iNEVER use charge... it's almost completely useless on insane becuase everyone has shields and armour

You should play an Adept if you don't like Charge.  Singularity is a great power too, and with the Tempest you've got all your bases covered.

[kaff33nd]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I'm not picking on kaff33nd, I'm just...

Don't stress mate, it's your thread. If I were so soft that I couldn't handle a little positive crit, then I wouldn't bother being so outspoken.

EDIT: @sinosleep - glad you got FRAPS. How are you finding the framerate? Have you found out a decent solution for adding commentary?

Modifié par kaff33nd, 07 février 2010 - 08:29 .

[sandwormcack]

On insanity, I used charge both for finishing isolated enemies without shields or armor and to control certain positions, but charge is also a great way to position yourself on the battlefield, especially to flank enemies. Given that the recharge time is about 5 secs, you charge full frontal against a protected enemy, shotgun him while strafing and then charge again. Now you control that spot. Try to do this on the second blood pack mission or Mordin's quest. In Mordin's quest when you blow up the Weyrloc speaker you can wait on cover while the Krogan get to the first floor and then charge a vorcha to the second.
Those are just some examples.
On a related note, I played on insanity prior to hardcore and the difference is inmense. I really strutted to the sound of cool jazz on hardcore, might have died once on the collector ship, while insanity is really challenging. I remember some really intense firefights. 

Modifié par sandwormcack, 07 février 2010 - 09:28 .

[RamsenC]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Thanks Gibb

Since this has turned into sort of general vanguard discussion and advice thread.
Has anyone done any testing with AP ammo? My own limited tests has showed that the damage increase you get from AP vs Inferno is tiny and mostly irrelevant. At least when using the scimitar. I was trying it out against Geth hunters and the tech type ones. The only difference I could find was that I used one shot more on the hunter using inferno rounds, the basic ones died to 2 shots regardless.

Could be that the difference is bigger when using the krogan shotgun tho. I don't know. But considering how good Inferno is against organics it just didn't seem worthwhile to me.
I have a feeling that the inferno ammo actually gives a bonus to health damage as well, or there should be more difference.

About shotguns in general:
Scimitar 81.9x2=163,8 per shot at point blank. 5 shots takes 3 seconds. Damage done 819
Claymore 200.4x2=400,8 per shot at point blank, 2 shot takes 3 seconds. Damage done 801,6 .

As you see time wise it's not that big a difference in terms of killing speed. That and with the Scimitar your enemies won't be shooting back at you due to the flinching from the shotgun. So it's the safer choice, plus you get the Vindicator

You values are slightly off. You have to consider theres a shot at 0s and go from there. Also the shotguns do not do that much damage per shot unless you are adding the double damage bonus at close range. All the guns in the game outside of the sniper rifles get a double damage bonus at close range btw. 

Here are my (hopefully) correct values, not including the close range damage bonus. Earlier I was comparing the shotguns vs the Vindicator AR at close range to prove the Vindicator had shotgun power at close range. As you can see the Claymore completely outclasses the other shotguns at close range and the Vindicator is slightly better but has all the benefits of an AR on top of that. 

Vindicator 
111 in 0.2s
222 in 1.025s
333 in 1.85s
444 in 2.675s
555 in 3.5s

Claymore
200 in 0s
400 in 1.5s
600 in 3s 

Katana
110 in 0s
220 in 1s
330 in 2s
440 in 3s

Scimitar
81 in 0s
162 in 0.6s
243 in 1.2s
324 in 1.8s
405 in 2.4s
486 in 3s

Modifié par RamsenC, 08 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[Average Gatsby]

kaff33nd wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

I'm not picking on kaff33nd, I'm just...

Don't stress mate, it's your thread. If I were so soft that I couldn't handle a little positive crit, then I wouldn't bother being so outspoken.

EDIT: @sinosleep - glad you got FRAPS. How are you finding the framerate? Have you found out a decent solution for adding commentary?

If you check out some of my vids on the other threads, I'm using Audacity 1.3. Its OpenSource.

[sinosleep]

kaff33nd wrote...

Don't stress mate, it's your thread. If I were so soft that I couldn't handle a little positive crit, then I wouldn't bother being so outspoken.

EDIT: @sinosleep - glad you got FRAPS. How are you finding the framerate? Have you found out a decent solution for adding commentary?

I haven't really run into any frame rate issues running it. I guess my pc is current enough to handle ME 2 and fraps going at the same time.

[EverteMax]

Charge also has an unintended side effect...which is u will lose your team mates. As in literally make them lose their way. You will be at god knows where and your team mates will take like 10 years to get to you. That said, I love my team mates, although they are pretty dumb in getting into cover PROPERLY, losing support is not healthy for me.

[Seblun]

So what do you guys think is good build?

I just beat the game with my Vanguard on Vet, after seeing some of the videos I plan on taking him into Insanity.

I assume, max Change as soon as possible into Heavy Charge.
Then get max out Assault Mastery to Champion.

Oh and get Reave as Bonus Talent. Heavy Reave?

Modifié par Seblun, 08 février 2010 - 07:04 .

[Breakdown Boy]

The best way to use charge is an situations where powerfull foes (missile troops) are behind the rest of their allies, use charge to surge past the front line, quickly kill the last line and then use their cover to take out the remaining troops, now cought in a cross fire between you and your squad! My extra power I use (second round on ME2 using a old ME1 character) is the Geth Shield, I use it after charge when I am low on health to buy me extra few seconds to get back to cover.