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[thisisme8]

Just wrote a post about Vanguards. It's what works for me and I'd appreciate any thoughts, especially from the more seasoned Vanguard players.



http://social.biowar...8/index/1061080

[_Dannok1234]

RamsenC wrote...
You values are slightly off. You have to consider theres a shot at 0s and go from there. Also the shotguns do not do that much damage per shot unless you are adding the double damage bonus at close range. All the guns in the game outside of the sniper rifles get a double damage bonus at close range btw. 

Here are my (hopefully) correct values, not including the close range damage bonus. Earlier I was comparing the shotguns vs the Vindicator AR at close range to prove the Vindicator had shotgun power at close range. As you can see the Claymore completely outclasses the other shotguns at close range and the Vindicator is slightly better but has all the benefits of an AR on top of that. 

Vindicator 
111 in 0.2s
222 in 1.025s
333 in 1.85s
444 in 2.675s
555 in 3.5s

Claymore
200 in 0s
400 in 1.5s
600 in 3s 

Katana
110 in 0s
220 in 1s
330 in 2s
440 in 3s

Scimitar
81 in 0s
162 in 0.6s
243 in 1.2s
324 in 1.8s
405 in 2.4s
486 in 3s

Yup, I know the values were a bit off in that one, thats why I made another post below it.
(used melee range bonus, as thats where I like to be as a vanguard)
But I think your numbers are a bit off as well or maybe it's just my game. Because I can't for the life of me, get the Claymore to fire faster then every 2 seconds. I have a feeling that while the reloading action itself takes 1.5 seconds, the act of shooting gives it that animation of recoil that lasts for about 0.5 seconds. That or it's my framerate. I know I can't get a 3rd shot off before charge is back from cool down(3,9), nor can I get more then 12 shots off in 30 seconds. 

That said tho, the Claymore is really good fun, and way superior then the other shotguns against anything with armor. But 2,4 seconds from the Scimitar pretty much equal to 2 seconds of the Claymore, that was my point. That the other shotguns aren't useless in comparison to it. Since you have to give up the Vindicator which I personally like a lot for various scenarios, I tend not to go with the Claymore.

Could say that in general, I feel the Claymore clearly outperforms both Vindicator and Scimitar against synthetic enemies and armored organics. But against organics in general I prefer Scimitar/vindicator, as then I have less of a wait if I miss a shot. Also as I was telling you in another thread, I prefer the Scimitar to the Vindicator against more then one opponent and elite organics due to the flinch mechanic. Since they aren't shooting back it doesn't really matter if you have to take one more shot, and the lower damage of the scimitar is somewhat offset by the better shield damage then the Vindicator.

[Soruyao]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Here's another vid. Doing the first 1/3rd of the collector base on insanity, only using charge. Included my deaths so you can see I'm not that good a player.
Point of the vid is to show that anyone can do this, and charge works really really well on insanity. I don't think I'll be doing that part as fast when I get there with my sentinel. (if I don't get bored first).

Oh yeah, I can only capture 30 seconds at a time as I haven't bought fraps. I tried using the frame rate as a timer, but I wasn't always successful at it, so it gets a bit choppy in places, and the last fight I basically bypassed by charging an enemy close to the valve and just legging it.
So for whatever it's worth :

God, I love watching all these vanguard videos.   This has got to be the class that's the most fun to watch people play.  I'm always on the edge of my seat. "Oh my goodness, did he just do that there?  He can't possibly survive, or will he?!"

Major props for showing yourself actually dying.   We all know it happens to everyone on insanity, and it helps a lot to make your video look honest.

[sinosleep]

The reason I don't show myself dying is because if there's one thing I've learned on these forums it's that at the end of the day a skeptic is going to be a skeptic regardless. I've proven so many misconceptions about shotguns/ammo/charge to be just that, and now two of the idiots in the other thread are accusing me of cheating cause when before they were complaining the videos weren't good enough, now they are too good. It's just stupid and I'm not going to deal with it. I figure, I make these vids for the people who know I'm not BSing them, so I may as well keep em short, sweet, and entertaining, and that means no deaths.

[RamsenC]

sinosleep wrote...

The reason I don't show myself dying is because if there's one thing I've learned on these forums it's that at the end of the day a skeptic is going to be a skeptic regardless. I've proven so many misconceptions about shotguns/ammo/charge to be just that, and now two of the idiots in the other thread are accusing me of cheating cause when before they were complaining the videos weren't good enough, now they are too good. It's just stupid and I'm not going to deal with it. I figure, I make these vids for the people who know I'm not BSing them, so I may as well keep em short, sweet, and entertaining, and that means no deaths.

I know how that is, I tried to get people to understand that 2h warriors could be power houses in Dragon Age with the right set up, but it wasn't worth trying  

Modifié par RamsenC, 08 février 2010 - 01:32 .

[sinosleep]

RamsenC wrote...

I know how that is, I tried to get people to understand that 2h warriors could be power houses in Dragon Age with the right set up, but it wasn't worth trying  

Holy crap, really? Dude, I was another one of the guys constantly defending the 2h warrior set up on the DA: O forums. This was one of the last posts I made on that board

sinosleep wrote...

Marso40 wrote...



If you use the 'no starting abilities' mod you can reconfigure any companion from the time you pick them up. Sten and Oghren both work a LOT better as two-weapon fighters with high Dex or even as sword and shield guys. The 2-H weapon deal is pretty useless unless you are constantly micro-managing it, and even then it's mostly an invitation to get carved up.

BS. The 2hander tree is fine. I've built a mess of them and bring Sten along on every playthrough. Go ahead and think that going in at lvl 22 and while being COMPLETELY IMMUNE to all stuns and knockdowns doing an auto attack for 100, chaining into sunder arms to cut off the animation resulting in another 100 damage on the first sunder arms swing then 140 crit on the 2nd. Mighty blow 140, crit blow 150, auto attack 140,  sunder armor 100, 140, and throw in an aoe 100 damage plus knock down sweep while stunning guys all along the way due to stunning blows making every attack a possible stun is an invitation to get carved up. I'll continue to cake walk through the game and actually have fun with a class that requires more interaction than hitting the same 2 tactics every fight.

The amount of misinformation spread about 2handers on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.

Seems like the burst damage class gets hated on in every game.

Modifié par sinosleep, 08 février 2010 - 10:45 .

[Kompaniet gibb]

Hehe might have to try a 2h warrior in DAO



An actual problem with Vanguard is the times you get stuck in walls or just plain get stuck facing in one direction while charging (especially if you pause and then charge).

This is bugging me, had some amazing fights end up with reloading because im stuck on some crate and the last crap enemy is plinking me down with his submachinegun..

Anyone got a no-clip cheat for a quick fix until bioware sorts this out?

[RiouHotaru]

I admit, I'm a pure Infiltrator (always loved the Sniper rifle), but seeing some of the Vanguard vids have made me VERY tempted to roll one for the hell of it, since the Charge can be used quite tactically, rather than the haphazard method I see otherwise.



I guess I'm just too in-love with the Widow and sniper slow-down for me to switch off. But I think Vanguard (also Engineer) are quite underrated.

[Blue Ninja]

Charge has proven to be very handy in several occasions on Insanity, when I happen to get cornered by one enemy with my shields down. I'll just bullrush them, while my team takes down whatever shields they may have left, and I'll usually come out victorious.



I did, however, re-train the skill, and decided not to evolve it. Used the four points I had left on Inferno Ammo once Shockwave turned out to suck.

[Murmillos]

It does take a bit to get a Vanguard up to speed. It takes a few levels to get Charge up - and then you'll want to do your ammo power and special class skill right after.



You can use Charge a lot in Insanity, BUT you do need to know where you should pull back to next - or you'll be seeing that death screen. If you don't know where you think your next choice of cover is when you go Charging, then you are playing the class wrong. Its as simple as that. Its not if most enemies are going to be flanking or rushing you often. Often its trading bullets while from behind cover.



Yes the first 8 levels suck, still some pain until you get to about 12. After that you should have done enough missions to upgrade your biotic powers and shotgun skills.



Even if you charge into an enemy that has full shields/armor/health, your shotgun should get them down in a couple of shots before they have a chance to react or fire at you more then once.



But as said before.. know where your next set of cover is at.

[RamsenC]

sinosleep wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

I know how that is, I tried to get people to understand that 2h warriors could be power houses in Dragon Age with the right set up, but it wasn't worth trying  

Holy crap, really? Dude, I was another one of the guys constantly defending the 2h warrior set up on the DA: O forums. This was one of the last posts I made on that board

sinosleep wrote...

Marso40 wrote...



If you use the 'no starting abilities' mod you can reconfigure any companion from the time you pick them up. Sten and Oghren both work a LOT better as two-weapon fighters with high Dex or even as sword and shield guys. The 2-H weapon deal is pretty useless unless you are constantly micro-managing it, and even then it's mostly an invitation to get carved up.

BS. The 2hander tree is fine. I've built a mess of them and bring Sten along on every playthrough. Go ahead and think that going in at lvl 22 and while being COMPLETELY IMMUNE to all stuns and knockdowns doing an auto attack for 100, chaining into sunder arms to cut off the animation resulting in another 100 damage on the first sunder arms swing then 140 crit on the 2nd. Mighty blow 140, crit blow 150, auto attack 140,  sunder armor 100, 140, and throw in an aoe 100 damage plus knock down sweep while stunning guys all along the way due to stunning blows making every attack a possible stun is an invitation to get carved up. I'll continue to cake walk through the game and actually have fun with a class that requires more interaction than hitting the same 2 tactics every fight.

The amount of misinformation spread about 2handers on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.

Seems like the burst damage class gets hated on in every game.

Not only that, but if you go Templar you can eventually be immune to spells on top of stuns/knockdowns. Plus if you add Champion on top of that you get a super crowd control tank that can also deal tons of damage and you don't have to waste a point on anything but strength.

One thing a lot of people didn't seem to know is you can stack haste to turn 2h into a dps machine. It adds up to 50% attack speed, plus you run insanely fast. I also had Oghren on the squad with 2h which allows you to cast earthquake in the middle of battle without knocking your melee down. You can just run around squashing enemies that can't stand up.

I should stop now though way off topic :l

[thisisme8]

RamsenC wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

I know how that is, I tried to get people to understand that 2h warriors could be power houses in Dragon Age with the right set up, but it wasn't worth trying  

Holy crap, really? Dude, I was another one of the guys constantly defending the 2h warrior set up on the DA: O forums. This was one of the last posts I made on that board

sinosleep wrote...

Marso40 wrote...



If you use the 'no starting abilities' mod you can reconfigure any companion from the time you pick them up. Sten and Oghren both work a LOT better as two-weapon fighters with high Dex or even as sword and shield guys. The 2-H weapon deal is pretty useless unless you are constantly micro-managing it, and even then it's mostly an invitation to get carved up.

BS. The 2hander tree is fine. I've built a mess of them and bring Sten along on every playthrough. Go ahead and think that going in at lvl 22 and while being COMPLETELY IMMUNE to all stuns and knockdowns doing an auto attack for 100, chaining into sunder arms to cut off the animation resulting in another 100 damage on the first sunder arms swing then 140 crit on the 2nd. Mighty blow 140, crit blow 150, auto attack 140,  sunder armor 100, 140, and throw in an aoe 100 damage plus knock down sweep while stunning guys all along the way due to stunning blows making every attack a possible stun is an invitation to get carved up. I'll continue to cake walk through the game and actually have fun with a class that requires more interaction than hitting the same 2 tactics every fight.

The amount of misinformation spread about 2handers on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.

Seems like the burst damage class gets hated on in every game.

Not only that, but if you go Templar you can eventually be immune to spells on top of stuns/knockdowns. Plus if you add Champion on top of that you get a super crowd control tank that can also deal tons of damage and you don't have to waste a point on anything but strength.

One thing a lot of people didn't seem to know is you can stack haste to turn 2h into a dps machine. It adds up to 50% attack speed, plus you run insanely fast. I also had Oghren on the squad with 2h which allows you to cast earthquake in the middle of battle without knocking your melee down. You can just run around squashing enemies that can't stand up.

I should stop now though way off topic :l

Must admit.  I'm another 2H Warrior player.  Favorite class.  Went Berzerker/Reaver with mine.  As you can see, I'm all about the High Risk, High Reward.  Hell, I even wore Med Armor.

My theory on playing as a 2H Reaver is the same as my "Not in the red, not having fun" reason for going Vanguard.

[SupidSeep]

Hi, I'm into my second game playing my femVanguard on Insanity. At low levels, it was sheer torture.



I remember getting stuck on a planet side mission with respawning robots that took me 2 nights to grind through. It was bad enough being a Vanguard on that mission, but I had to contend with the "floating" bug that ruined about 1/3 of the reloads attempts.



I just got past the 2nd last major mission where you get the "secret" squadmate and the end battle basically boils down to femShepard running/sprinting around the place with a dozen ARMOURED husks hot on her heels. I was so glad I took Reave as my bonus power cos it allowed me to Reave away a couple of husks' armour, run til my powers recharge then Shockwave the gathered huskes, destroying the unarmoured husks and stunning the armoured husks for Shepard to run and repeat.

Shepard died twice there (dragged down by massed Husks) before I cleared it but at least it beats 2 nights of grinding. My squad Miranda & Thane got dragged down pretty fast so 90% of the time it was just femShepard vs Armoured Husks.



Just want to ask for advise on how to handle this matter befitting an offensive Vanguard instead of a scared kitty. Meanwhile, I am thinking whether I can finish off the last bit and finally get the Insanity Achievement (I should have tried it with Infiltrator).

[Christina Norman]

kaff33nd wrote...

What I'd like to know is his: Has anyone managed to use charge to escape? In the Christina Norman vid she says it can get you out of trouble. No matter how many times I try to do that it never works.

Some people were confused by that point in the video. You must have a valid target to charge, so you can only use charge to escape if there is a valid target to piggyback onto.

Tactical movement with charge requires that you know where enemies are on the battlefield, and you kill them in the right order. If you play vanguard long enough you start to just do this automatically, which makes it easier to do escape moves like the one in the video.

[WillieStyle]

Christina Norman wrote...

kaff33nd wrote...

What I'd like to know is his: Has anyone managed to use charge to escape? In the Christina Norman vid she says it can get you out of trouble. No matter how many times I try to do that it never works.

Some people were confused by that point in the video. You must have a valid target to charge, so you can only use charge to escape if there is a valid target to piggyback onto.

Tactical movement with charge requires that you know where enemies are on the battlefield, and you kill them in the right order. If you play vanguard long enough you start to just do this automatically, which makes it easier to do escape moves like the one in the video.

There are a few fights in ME2 where waves of tough enemies charge at your squad (Krogen, Heavy Mechs, Geth Hunters/Destroyers, Harbinger etc) while lone snipers shoot at your party from elevated positions.  One cool technique to avoid getting overwhelmed, is to charge at the sniper just as the tough enemies reach your squad.  It not only gets you out of danger and takes out an annoying sniper, it also saves your squadmate if you happen to have "aggro" from the tough enemies at the time.

[Kurupt87]

WillieStyle wrote...

Christina Norman wrote...

kaff33nd wrote...

What I'd like to know is his: Has anyone managed to use charge to escape? In the Christina Norman vid she says it can get you out of trouble. No matter how many times I try to do that it never works.

Some people were confused by that point in the video. You must have a valid target to charge, so you can only use charge to escape if there is a valid target to piggyback onto.

Tactical movement with charge requires that you know where enemies are on the battlefield, and you kill them in the right order. If you play vanguard long enough you start to just do this automatically, which makes it easier to do escape moves like the one in the video.

There are a few fights in ME2 where waves of tough enemies charge at your squad (Krogen, Heavy Mechs, Geth Hunters/Destroyers, Harbinger etc) while lone snipers shoot at your party from elevated positions.  One cool technique to avoid getting overwhelmed, is to charge at the sniper just as the tough enemies reach your squad.  It not only gets you out of danger and takes out an annoying sniper, it also saves your squadmate if you happen to have "aggro" from the tough enemies at the time.

yes this, the only trouble being when said snipers are in an area you can't get to/charge(ie a sniper tower/perch), and that wtfpwns default VG.

[FFTARoxorz05]

I had problems with Vanguard in Normal; not with the difficulty, but in the early game I literally had no reason to use charge. Doing so would get me killed in every situation that popped up. I think the first time I used it was going through the krogan to get to Grunt's pod because they tended to come one at a time, and it definitely isn't as cool as the video made it out to be.



For anyone who hasn't played a vanguard, you will die if you charge and there's more targets (unlike what the video let on). This isn't DAO, the random grunts can kill you quite easily.

[thisisme8]

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

I had problems with Vanguard in Normal; not with the difficulty, but in the early game I literally had no reason to use charge. Doing so would get me killed in every situation that popped up. I think the first time I used it was going through the krogan to get to Grunt's pod because they tended to come one at a time, and it definitely isn't as cool as the video made it out to be.

For anyone who hasn't played a vanguard, you will die if you charge and there's more targets (unlike what the video let on). This isn't DAO, the random grunts can kill you quite easily.

You should read the whole post (yeah, all nine pages still makes a good read).  Or head over here:
http://social.biowar...8/index/1061080
There's some hints and tips for you.

[Christina Norman]

Great videos sinosleep. Your charge playstyle is quite similar to my own, but you die less! You've definitely shown that charge can be viable on insanity, and can help you clear content quickly.



When I play my Vanguard on insanity I use my secondary skills fairly often (pull shockwave) as well as all the ammo types. Charge is a key vanguard skill but not the only one.



One advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master, definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the claymore.



Vanguard on insanity is definitely not for everyone, but that's why we have 6 classes.

[Average Gatsby]

Christina Norman wrote...

Great videos sinosleep. Your charge playstyle is quite similar to my own, but you die less! You've definitely shown that charge can be viable on insanity, and can help you clear content quickly.

When I play my Vanguard on insanity I use my secondary skills fairly often (pull shockwave) as well as all the ammo types. Charge is a key vanguard skill but not the only one.

One advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master, definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the claymore.

Vanguard on insanity is definitely not for everyone, but that's why we have 6 classes.

Can you cancel reload on any weapon with any class or just the shotgun/vanguard?

[konfeta]

Hm, I have to say, Vanguard gets shot at lot less than I expected after Charge.

[Christina Norman]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Can you cancel reload on any weapon with any class or just the shotgun/vanguard?

You can do it with any class and any weapon. In addition to melee, any power works to cancel out of a reload.  For example, on my adept I often use pull or warp to cancel out of a reload.

[thisisme8]

Christina Norman wrote...

Great videos sinosleep. Your
charge playstyle is quite similar to my own, but you die less! You've
definitely shown that charge can be viable on insanity, and can help
you clear content quickly.

When I play my Vanguard on insanity I
use my secondary skills fairly often (pull shockwave) as well as all
the ammo types. Charge is a key vanguard skill but not the only one.

One
advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of
a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long
as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master,
definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the
claymore.

Vanguard on insanity is definitely not for everyone, but that's why we have 6 classes.

Christina Norman wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

Can you cancel reload on any weapon with any class or just the shotgun/vanguard?

You can do it with any class and any weapon. In addition to melee, any power works to cancel out of a reload.  For example, on my adept I often use pull or warp to cancel out of a reload.

Awesome.  Good bit of info to know and great to see that Christina loves her Vanguards as much as we do.

[XOGHunter246]

Vanguard I tried to use on insanity but it was too hard, my solider killed things much easier on insanity.