426 réponses à ce sujet

[NICKjnp]

Warp and reave do damage shields... just not as much as they damage other defenses.

[The Spamming Troll]

Pacifien wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
What else to do?Wait,until teammates reduces the shields of the ymir and then spam warp?It wouldnt be overpowered when biotics work on a heavy mech.Just with a reduced duration and some penalties.

I'm amused more by the lament that the Cain won't take out a YMIR mech in one shot on Insanity.

Suggestions for how to improve the system in ME3 is admirable and desirable. Saying you didn't find the Adept particularly enjoyable in ME2 is understandable. That will not take away from the fact that other people have enjoyed the class across all difficulties.

"I had fun." "You just spammed warp all the time and you don't even have a way to take out shields." "Oh, you're right. I must not have had fun." You're not going to win any arguments over this.

If you really want to get a good discussion on how the system could be changed away from the "Adept: fun or not?" argument, you'd have better luck starting a new thread specifically about it.

i had fun watching 2 girls 1 cup. does that mean 2 girls 1 cup is good?

everything is subjective, ofcorse. im a very illogical thinker. probably the best illogical thinker youve ever met. but one thing that doesnt make sense to me is enemy defenses stoping most(all) abilities in this game. whats the point of having abilities if insanity is going to take them all away from you?

I LOVE BIOTICS! thats my problem. i friggin love biotics. and those limitations bioware put on biotics in ME2 basically sucks for me. i cant imagin playing a star wars game and not being able to use the force on every enemy i encountered. biotics are ****ing awesome right? and bioware comes out with this gameplay design and basically tells me to screw off with what i interpretted biotics to be. becasue your wearing a little peice of armor that give you +5% sheilds means i cant throw you into a wall? becasue you have 1 HP of shielding means i cant lift you into outer space?

i like comparing video games and video game characters. i used to think shepard was the best "video game soldier" out there when i played ME1. screw master chief. toodaloo snake. but then i play ME2 and shepard cant do half the things he did in ME1. its a shame. i feel like all i can do is meaninglessly complain about it.

[Pacifien]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
i had fun watching 2 girls 1 cup. does that mean 2 girls 1 cup is good?*snip*

In no way was I saying the system on Insanity was good. More like "I thought watching 2 girls 1 cup was fun. Does that mean watching 2 girls 1 cup is fun?" Uh... to you perhaps.

Throughout this thread, two concepts continually get confused with each other.

1) Can someone have fun playing as an Adept on Insanity? Yes. Even if you personally didn't have fun, plenty of people have said yes.

2) Do the developers need to change how their difficulty settings work and/or the Adept system in ME3? If your answer to the first question was "no," I can see how you'd be tempted to combine that concept with this one. But my answer to both questions is yes. Yes, I can have fun playing as an Adept on Insanity, and yes, I think the system needs to be changed.

Hence my saying you'd be better off separating question 2 from question 1 with its own thread. If you keep saying the Adept wasn't fun and this is why they need to do x, y, and z, then you're going to get everyone who thought the Adept was fun ignoring whatever suggestions you are making just to say they disagree about whether or not the Adept is fun. This is what you get when the title of the thread is "The Adept isn't fun."

[NICKjnp]

Pacifien wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
i had fun watching 2 girls 1 cup. does that mean 2 girls 1 cup is good?*snip*

In no way was I saying the system on Insanity was good. More like "I thought watching 2 girls 1 cup was fun. Does that mean watching 2 girls 1 cup is fun?" Uh... to you perhaps.

Throughout this thread, two concepts continually get confused with each other.

1) Can someone have fun playing as an Adept on Insanity? Yes. Even if you personally didn't have fun, plenty of people have said yes.

2) Do the developers need to change how their difficulty settings work and/or the Adept system in ME3? If your answer to the first question was "no," I can see how you'd be tempted to combine that concept with this one. But my answer to both questions is yes. Yes, I can have fun playing as an Adept on Insanity, and yes, I think the system needs to be changed.

Hence my saying you'd be better off separating question 2 from question 1 with its own thread. If you keep saying the Adept wasn't fun and this is why they need to do x, y, and z, then you're going to get everyone who thought the Adept was fun ignoring whatever suggestions you are making just to say they disagree about whether or not the Adept is fun. This is what you get when the title of the thread is "The Adept isn't fun."

...and reave is a good power.

[Pacifien]

NICKjnp wrote...
...and reave is a good power.

Okay, would it make you feel better that I put Reave on my Adept so I could do an even speedier Casual run when I needed to get through a section quickly for my various suicide mission testings? 'Cause I'll run through the whole mission using nothing but Reave. Not even a Singularity. I don't even stop to see where my squadmates are. Reave. Reave! REAVE! REAVE!REAVE!REAVE!

[NICKjnp]

Pacifien wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...
...and reave is a good power.

Okay, would it make you feel better that I put Reave on my Adept so I could do an even speedier Casual run when I needed to get through a section quickly for my various suicide mission testings? 'Cause I'll run through the whole mission using nothing but Reave. Not even a Singularity. I don't even stop to see where my squadmates are. Reave. Reave! REAVE! REAVE!REAVE!REAVE!

The only thing I would change about reave is the life draining aspect as well as the dancing aspect.  Warp in the first game was a damaged based power that damaged enemies over time.  That is what reave is supposed to do (but for some reason it does one instant hit on armor and shields).  I think reave does now what warp originaly did in the first game (especially area reave).  I like that it does double damage to armor and barriers.  It is a good power but they should remove the life draining aspect of it.

Reave on an adept is overkill.  On a vanguard it is beneficial... but like I said it shouldn't allow the life draining aspect.  Usually after I remove barrier or armor I hit the enemy with heavy shockwave (when enviroment will take care of them for me) or pull field and use Miranda or Thane to detonate a warp.  I don't spam it until everyone is dead.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:18 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Pacifien wrote...

Okay, would it make you feel better that I put Reave on my Adept so I could do an even speedier Casual run when I needed to get through a section quickly for my various suicide mission testings? 'Cause I'll run through the whole mission using nothing but Reave. Not even a Singularity. I don't even stop to see where my squadmates are. Reave. Reave! REAVE! REAVE!REAVE!REAVE!

reaveaholic!

[Bozorgmehr]

NICKjnp wrote...

Reave on an adept is overkill.  On a vanguard it is beneficial... but like I said it shouldn't allow the life draining aspect.

Reave on an Adept a waste. It's like taking AP Ammo playing Vanguard or Soldier. Warp is superior in (almost) every way - Warp explosions! These are the cream and butter for any Adept (and (to a lesser extent) Sentinel). The only real advantage of Reave is its instant effect (though squad Warps are instantly too) and the option to take Area Reave to strip multiple enemies' armor or barriers. This last 'advantage' isn't really an advantage since Warp bombs will strip all surrounding enemies' defenses (including shields) with a much wider radius (3-7 m).

The draining effect is pretty useless too (things would be different if it would recharge Shep's shield/barrier like Energy Drain). The extra health (and regen) will keep Shep alive for like 0.2 s (maybe less) when under fire (insanity). Energy Drain will get your shield back = thats what keeps you alive. Not the shields though (they're gone fast), but the moment your shield fails you're temporarily indestrutible. Thats what keeps Shep going and that's why Vanguards are so powerful. It doesn't matter how much health and/or shield you've got, it does matter to get some shield up just for the 'lost shields' moments.

I also can't see why Adepts are considered weak against shielded enemies. Only Engineers and Sentinals have Overload to take down shields. The only other power against shields is ED (every class can use this bonus power). Soldiers and Infiltrators have access to Disruper Ammo, but so does any Adept bringing Zaeed (same with Overload bring Miranda and/or Garrus). The most effective anti-shield device is the Arc Projector.

[Pacifien]

I've never been a fan of Reave, and the fact I can go through entire missions using nothing but Reave is a demonstration as to why.

[The Spamming Troll]

you can also go through entire missions without doing anything other then hiding in cover. atleast i think you can.......i wonder if anyones done a "cover only" playthrough yet??? thatd be a good demonstration of squadmate usage.

but more importantly i wonder where lebron is going.....

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 juillet 2010 - 02:46 .

[Whole Particle]

I've just finished up an Adept insanity playthrough and never spent a single point in Warp. I preferred to max out and use primarily Heavy Singularity and Heavy Shockwave.

Warp is OK, but it wasn't necessary for my latest Adept.

[Pacifien]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
you can also go through entire missions without doing anything other then hiding in cover. atleast i think you can.......i wonder if anyones done a "cover only" playthrough yet??? thatd be a good demonstration of squadmate usage.

Would probably require better squadmate management than I ever had the patience to maintain. There are a few battles where I let my squadmates rest a bit where they fell while I clear out the bad guys for them.

I took Reave especially for the speed it gave me in moving forward. Even on Insanity. I think I'm done with the speed plays for now, though. Back to Warp Ammo.

[Weiser_Cain]

Nope it's not, some might argue that it's doable, and it is I played mostly Adept games, but it wasn't fun for me.

[Spornicus]

I never bothered with Reave. I preferred warp ammo much more because that did such a number on barriers and armor anyway, and I wouldn't be recharging right when an opponent's protection drops.

[Bozorgmehr]

Pacifien wrote...

I've never been a fan of Reave, and the fact I can go through entire missions using nothing but Reave is a demonstration as to why.

Really? Try a solo run with an Adept (insanity) and try again. Reave is nothing - Warp is everything. Please give me an example when Reave would be (more) useful during my solo run (check my sig).

Whole Particle wrote...

I've just finished up an Adept insanity playthrough and never spent a single point in Warp. I preferred to max out and use primarily Heavy Singularity and Heavy Shockwave.

You start with one point in Warp, so only after Horizon you can dump Warp.

Warp is OK, but it wasn't necessary for my latest Adept.

Warp Explosions are the same for any Adept like Cloak and AR are for Infiltrators and Soldiers. An Adept without Warp is at best a lousy Adept.

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Nope it's not, some might argue that it's doable, and it is I played mostly Adept games, but it wasn't fun for me.

Adept is by far the most fun class to play. On Veteran and below it ain't coz everything is death before they even know you're there. On inanity it's great fun. Nothing beats the sight of helpless enemies flying around the battlefield. It takes a bit of practice (it's not as easy as playing a Soldier who just have to shoot their guns). Adepts have to use all their (and squadmates) abilities to set up devasting combos. But as soon as you figure this out, Adepts are pretty much unstoppable, even on their own.

Spornicus wrote...

I never bothered with Reave. I preferred warp ammo much more because that did such a number on barriers and armor anyway, and I wouldn't be recharging right when an opponent's protection drops.

Finally someone wise. Warp Ammo is the best bonus power for an Adept (exept during shield only/synthetic enemy missions - take Enery Drain and/or bring Zaeed).

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 02 juillet 2010 - 10:27 .

[Pacifien]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
I've never been a fan of Reave, and the fact I can go through entire missions using nothing but Reave is a demonstration as to why.

Really? Try a solo run with an Adept (insanity) and try again. Reave is nothing - Warp is everything. Please give me an example when Reave would be (more) useful during my solo run (check my sig).

Wait, do you want me to say Reave is a perfectly fine power then? Or that instead of me thinking Reave is overpowered, I should be saying Warp is overpowered?

[NICKjnp]

Spornicus wrote...

I never bothered with Reave. I preferred warp ammo much more because that did such a number on barriers and armor anyway, and I wouldn't be recharging right when an opponent's protection drops.

I never bothered with warp ammo (except for one time where I used the gibbed save editor to give my vanguard an extra bonus power).  The vanguard already has two ammo powers and if you really want warp ammo then just bring Jack and set it to squad.  Wait... we were talking about reave on a vanguard right?  On an adept reave is pointless... but not a vanguard.  It gives you a damage based biotic power (something that the vanguard is lacking on hardcore/insanity).  The way I view reave for a vanguard is that it is there to strip barriers and armor so that you can use pull to set up a warp detonation with Miranda or Thane.  As I stated previously thouh... reave is pointless for an adept because warp is much more suited for the class.  You can set up warp detonations and it curves around corners so you can stay out of the line of sight.

[numotsbane]

I've had plenty of fun playing Adept. In the end, it doesn't matter whether you use warp or reave or warp ammo, singularity + anything will generally get the job done.



There are some missions that an adept will dominate. there are some that they won't, but that goes for any class.



The only frustrating times I have as an adept is on maps where you have to relocate in order to avoid getting flanked. in particular, the middle segment of jack's recruitment mission (long segment with the YMIR), and the end of miranda's loyalty mission (killing enyala part). but the challenge is rewarding in the end.



I'm not sure what the OP or anyone who says adept isn't fun wants us to tell them. I've had fun, you may not have.

so what?

play another class then. or try finding a way that makes it enjoyable. the game is just the way it is, and unless you're real keen on modding it, its going to stay that way.

[Pacifien]

I can understand the complaints in trying to address certain issues with the Adept that could use improvement in the next game. Maybe instead of telling them to start their own thread specifically about it, I should give it a go. I had fun playing the Adept, but I do have issues with all the classes and some of the difficulty settings that I think the developers could do with improving the next time around.

But that's what developers do with sequels, yeah? Try to improve what didn't quite work perfectly before.

[numotsbane]

Fair point.

inevitably you will find people who like the parts you want fixed, or who dislike the parts that you love. but many of the complaints seem to be:

• about the global cooldown system
  
• about the protection system on higher difficulties
  
• about not being the biotic god an ME1 adept was.

which are probably all related actually.

the only part of that I feel is perhaps warranted is the protection system. I actually like it, much more than ME1 combat, but it is a bit.... shallow? is that the word? one dimensional? it breaks the immersion a bit with its giant coloured bars and its too-obvious scissors-paper-rock mechanic which only actually effects how much damage you do, not whether powers are effective.

But if you're going to rage on these things, you should probably say what and why they're bad, and how to improve them. general negativity doesn't achieve anything.

[The Spamming Troll]

numotsbane wrote...

Fair point.
inevitably you will find people who like the parts you want fixed, or who dislike the parts that you love. but many of the complaints seem to be:

• about the global cooldown system
• about the protection system on higher difficulties
• about not being the biotic god an ME1 adept was.

which are probably all related actually.
the only part of that I feel is perhaps warranted is the protection system. I actually like it, much more than ME1 combat, but it is a bit.... shallow? is that the word? one dimensional? it breaks the immersion a bit with its giant coloured bars and its too-obvious scissors-paper-rock mechanic which only actually effects how much damage you do, not whether powers are effective.
But if you're going to rage on these things, you should probably say what and why they're bad, and how to improve them. general negativity doesn't achieve anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          whose the "you" you speak of? we are at 17 pages here with ideas all around. your list is correct tho. those are 3 things that need to be changed for ME3.

[Bozorgmehr]

Pacifien wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
I've never been a fan of Reave, and the fact I can go through entire missions using nothing but Reave is a demonstration as to why.

Really? Try a solo run with an Adept (insanity) and try again. Reave is nothing - Warp is everything. Please give me an example when Reave would be (more) useful during my solo run (check my sig).

Wait, do you want me to say Reave is a perfectly fine power then? Or that instead of me thinking Reave is overpowered, I should be saying Warp is overpowered?

All I'm saying is that Reave is worthless for an Adept and yes Warp is a much more versatile and more powerful ability. Reave is only useful for Soldiers, Infiltrators, Engineers and Vanguards who don't have abilities to strip barriers (fast).

Btw their are no OP powers.

[numotsbane]

the spamming troll wrote...

whose the "you" you speak of? we are at 17 pages here with ideas all around. your list is correct tho. those are 3 things that need to be changed for ME3.

yeah I only read the first and last few pages. sorry if I came accross as accusatory, I wasn't trying to point out specific people. but for all the posts with good ideas, there seem to be others which are just plain old 'its bad'... no wait, you'll probably just ask me to point them out.

As a matter of opinion, I don't actually agree with point 1 and 3. 1, because in ME1 i hated waiting 60+ seconds to use a power twice, and 3 because, well, i really like the ME2 adept anyway.

[SteelerWayne]

Played as an Adept on Veteran and had tons of fun.



Female Shep Adept + Miranda + Samara = Enemies are OWNED