426 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

Lycidas:



Well, to be perfectly fair, "spamming" Singularity and then proceeding to "spam" Warp Explosion (using Pull and Warp, I suppose) already uses up 3 out of 5 Adept powers on a regular basis. And it's not like Throw isn't a hell of a useful power on its own, anyway.



Of all the classes, the Adept spams the same power the LEAST, I'd say.

[sinosleep]

Lycidas, you aren't reading either. I can use shockwave and pull to supplement charge FAR more often on normal than on insanity cause I have to strip defenses in order to use them. These are two powers adepts also have, therefore, you can't argue vanguards don't suffer from the same problem. You are forced to charge more often on insanity. Engineers run into this problem with cryoblast. It works great on normal, on insanity you have to change it up to make any use of it.

[Roxlimn]

sinosleep:



Arguably, this is more of an issue with those classes than on an Adept because Warp Explosion is just that excellent at applying damage over a wide radius. You can easily use it to strip pretty much any kind of defense en masse, allowing you to use any other power with impunity once it connects.

[Kronner]

I found Adept to be powerful, but boring to play. Just my opinion though.

(same goes for Sentinel and Infiltrator, I enjoyed Soldier and hate Engineer)

So I agree that playing as an Adept is not fun

[Lycidas]

sinosleep wrote...

I'm a pretty good vanguard player, and average gatsby beat any vanguard time I've seen on the collector platforms in this vid. He clears the second platform in less time than it would have taken me to charge and kill the first guy. And that's at low level.

I know you are. It is pretty much due to your videos that I changed from Adapt to Vanguard But that is not my point.

sinosleep wrote...

You can't try to argue this from 15 different angles. Either spamming bothers you, and that's moot cause every class spams. The damage bothers you and that's moot if you've watched many of average gatsby's videos. Or it's something else.

Spamming is pretty close to my point but not quite there yet. I talk about how the classes core gameplay changes on different difficulties.

sinosleep wrote...

And you missed the point any way, the point was shockwave isn't nearly as useful on insanity as it is on normal. Cryoblast isn't nearly as useful on insanity for engineers as it is on normal. The list goes on and on. Adepts aren't the only ones who have to deal with defenses for powers that worked fine on normal but need help on insanity. Concussive shot is also a FAR better ability for soldiers on normal than it is on insanity. 

You are right on shockwave, cryoblast and conclussive shot but that is not the point. The Vanguards core is not about shockwave it is about closing distances and shoot stuff with the shotgun. The Soldier is a expert in weapons and the Engeneers core is to actually deal with defenses. Now the Adepts core is CC.
On higher difficulties none of the classes cores change for the Engeneer it is actually getting better cause there finally are defenses to deal with. Only the Adept changes from CC everything and shoot a little to shoot everything and CC a little with that one skill that still works.
Is that so hard to see?

[Roxlimn]

Lycidas:



It's harder to see your point when people are playing Adept using pretty much all the skills except Shockwave. When you're "spamming" 4 out of your 5 powers provided, well to be honest it doesn't feel all that much of a spam. For Soldier, spam Adrenaline Rush. The problem isn't that the Adept is encouraged to use his guns more - it's that gameplay isn't materially different or all that harder for a Soldier or an Infiltrator on the harder difficulties.

[CubemonkeyNYC]

Lycidas:

The problem is that you're wrong about what adepts are all about. I've never played my adept as a crowd control class, whether on Normal or Insanity. I treat it as a burst damage + guns class.

This isn't DA:O. There's no CC.

[AliasGrey]

Lycidas wrote...

Ender1221 wrote...

I agree with sinosleep. As a Sentinel, I activated tech armor and spammed warp for everything but shields. For an infiltrator, I cloaked, zoomed, sniped. Soldiers spam Adrenaline Rush. Engineers spam drones. No matter what difficulty or class your playing at, you are going to be spamming abilities.

What the hell? Did you even read what I said?
For every class the game playes basically the same no matter what difficulty you play on it is only getting more complex to some degree. For the Adapt this is not true. The game changes from use the best skill at the best time to use Singularity all the time and finsh stuff that would be dead with one pistol shot to the head anyways with a whooping warp explosion.
The core of the class changes for the Adept at higher difficulties and that is not true to other classes.

Finished insanity last night on my adept and I didnt keep spamming singularity over and over like your saying.  Its situational, if theres a pinch point I lay it on the to stop mobs passing thru it, if harbinger is running loose I use it to keep him in check.  If mobs are grouped together I use it for the aoe warp when there shields are down, any other time Id be using pull throw and me allies abilties.

Just because you can spam one ability over and over doesnt mean its the only way to play it.

[Ender1221]

Before the game was released, the devs said that the Adept class was the "Biotic Warrior" class and was the best at killing enemies without firing a single shot. That is precisely what it does. That is the core of the class. Whether or not you find that "fun" is in the eye of the beholder, but, based on the devs comments, the adept feels more like a direct damage class, not a CC class.

[JamesDBacon]

I played through ME1 as a Vanguard, and so my imported class was the same. I really liked it, and as long as you're aware of your surroundings and don't do something stupid, Charge is a neat ability.



I just started a second play-through and went with the Adept, and I'm loving it. I'm not too far into the game, but I can see this class favoring area-of-effect evolutions for their powers, Singularity (increased field) + Area Throw/Area Slam. Area Pull + Area Reap. It's an extremely powerful class, but it takes a bit of strategy and set-up to take advantage of. I don't foresee Husk rushes standing a chance. The power refresh rate is exceptionally rapid, and my typical play style sees me use a power right out of the box, squeeze off a round or two at a completely different target, and then go back to abusing my first target with more Biotics.



I really, really like the class.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

CubemonkeyNYC wrote...

Lycidas:

The problem is that you're wrong about what adepts are all about. I've never played my adept as a crowd control class, whether on Normal or Insanity. I treat it as a burst damage + guns class.

 

Guns and ammo own biotics.

The soldier classes are the most powerful in the game. An adept should not be a gimped soldier. Adepts are supposdly the biotic masters. Yeah, you can play an adept using just guns and ammo powers, but then you are not really playing as the "biotic master" that the class is supposed to be.

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard:

Eh. For some encounters, yes, others, no. Having the more powerful guns is definitely an advantage, but that's no reason to make the higher difficulty levels even easier than they already are.

The class that's losing out is the Soldiers, not the Adept - because ultimately, the Soldiers and the Infiltrators are less interesting classes.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 17 février 2010 - 08:12 .

[GCreature]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

CubemonkeyNYC wrote...

Lycidas:

The problem is that you're wrong about what adepts are all about. I've never played my adept as a crowd control class, whether on Normal or Insanity. I treat it as a burst damage + guns class.

 

Guns and ammo own biotics.

The soldier classes are the most powerful in the game. An adept should not be a gimped soldier. Adepts are supposdly the biotic masters. Yeah, you can play an adept using just guns and ammo powers, but then you are not really playing as the "biotic master" that the class is supposed to be.

An Adept is a biotic soldier, you use firearms to supplement your biotics and biotics to supplement your firearms. 

[SwiftSweeper]

Once I got over initial learning curve. I found Adept a lot of fun. I am playing on Hardcore right now.

I do not feel like I am spamming either. I usually use Singularity to lock the biggest threats/groups or create choke point for charging enemies, Then, I use Warp, ally abilities, and guns (I use Warp ammo as bonus) to strip enemy defenses while I refresh Singularity if it is needed. Once enemy defenses are down, Pull and Throw for weaker enemies(I only have one point in Throw right now), or Pull and Warp for tougher enemies like Krogans or enemy groups. If Singularity picks someone up, I would use Throw and Warp with it as well. It feels very fluid and varied to me.



My first playthrough was as Soldier on Veteran, When I played as Soldier, I was constantly spamming Adrenaline Rush. I also had area Concussive Shot maxed out, but I found that it was only useful against husks and Barriers. Granted, Soldier has a lot of guns and ammos to choose form, so It was far from boring, but it felt like I was just spamming one ability most of the time. With Adept, I do not feel like I am spamming at all.

[mundus66]

Adept, Engineer and Sentinel all play very much alike imo. Chances are that if you do not like adept you wont like them either. They have a more useful skill set though.

[Your Synthetic Superior]

sinosleep wrote...

If this is your idea of skillful or fun gameplay I'm extremely glad you had nothing to do with the development of ME 2. Shared cool downs make sense and work fine IMO. As does the adept. ME 1 style biotics were horrendously broken.

To be fair, the point of that was to show that it could be done... that that it would be fun. That is all Insanity is in ME1: Enemies with to much health that take too long to kill. Insanity (in ME1), as a whole, is not fun and I never understood why be played it.

[GCreature]

Most of the ME1 enemies didn't take that long on insanity imo, it was just the organic enemies that could spam immunity, but toxic damage canceled that and stopped health regen', it just meant chemical rounds were pretty much a must in those fights.

Now Fallout3 Very Hard mode was ridiculous. When an unarmoured normal human can take several magazines worth of assault rifle rounds to the FACE I draw the line.

Modifié par GCreature, 17 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[sinosleep]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...
To be fair, the point of that was to show that it could be done... that that it would be fun. That is all Insanity is in ME1: Enemies with to much health that take too long to kill. Insanity (in ME1), as a whole, is not fun and I never understood why be played it.

How long it takes to kill enemies wasn't my intention with the vid though. It was the fact that an adept could single handedly stunlock like 10 guys for several minutes all by his lonesome due to a horrendous cool down system that allowed you to infinitely spam abilities at high levels. Gameplay like what was in that vid is why a hard cool down system makes sense. Adepts are still plenty powerful, without being able to just waltz into a room and not worry about having to try.

Not that I disagree though, insanity in ME 1 was nothing more than a badge of honor. I have a hard time believing anyone found that junk fun, and this is coming from a guy notorious for playing everything on the hardest difficulty setting right out of the box.

Modifié par sinosleep, 17 février 2010 - 10:05 .

[Catlana]

The Adept and Vanguard were pretty badly hammered from ME1 to ME2. At higher difficulty levels charge is a simple way to a quick death. Adepts become warp spammers. Finally, most of the time the two classes are just better off shooting things.

[sinosleep]

Catlana wrote...

The Adept and Vanguard were pretty badly hammered from ME1 to ME2. At higher difficulty levels charge is a simple way to a quick death. Adepts become warp spammers. Finally, most of the time the two classes are just better off shooting things.

Read my sig, then click my sig charge works just fine, thank you very much.

[Kronner]

Catlana wrote...

The Adept and Vanguard were pretty badly hammered from ME1 to ME2. At higher difficulty levels charge is a simple way to a quick death. Adepts become warp spammers. Finally, most of the time the two classes are just better off shooting things.

heh, check out this thread for proof that Vanguards actually rock on Insanity and Charge is awesome:
http://social.biowar...8/index/1061080

Anyone who says Charge is useless clearly does not know how to play and blames the game for it.

[thisisme8]

sinosleep wrote...

Catlana wrote...

The Adept and Vanguard were pretty badly hammered from ME1 to ME2. At higher difficulty levels charge is a simple way to a quick death. Adepts become warp spammers. Finally, most of the time the two classes are just better off shooting things.

Read my sig, then click my sig charge works just fine, thank you very much.

Still?  After a 26 page, 600 post (almost) Vanguard thread and Sinosleep's videos promoted by the Devs in a sticky?  Still?  Wow.  Some people just won't believe.

Edit:  Haha!  Kronner beat me to it.  Where's RamsenC and the rest of the gang?

Modifié par thisisme8, 17 février 2010 - 10:19 .

[sinosleep]

thisisme8 wrote...
Still?  After a 26 page, 600 post (almost) Vanguard thread and Sinosleep's videos promoted by the Devs in a sticky?  Still?  Wow.  Some people just won't believe.

Edit:  Haha!  Kronner beat me to it.  Where's RamsenC and the rest of the gang?

I don't get it man, I guess it's the opposite of the vanguarditis we all have. 

[RamsenC]

sinosleep wrote...

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...
To be fair, the point of that was to show that it could be done... that that it would be fun. That is all Insanity is in ME1: Enemies with to much health that take too long to kill. Insanity (in ME1), as a whole, is not fun and I never understood why be played it.

How long it takes to kill enemies wasn't my intention with the vid though. It was the fact that an adept could single handedly stunlock like 10 guys for several minutes all by his lonesome due to a horrendous cool down system that allowed you to infinitely spam abilities at high levels. Gameplay like what was in that vid is why a hard cool down system makes sense. Adepts are still plenty powerful, without being able to just waltz into a room and not worry about having to try.

Not that I disagree though, insanity in ME 1 was nothing more than a badge of honor. I have a hard time believing anyone found that junk fun, and this is coming from a guy notorious for playing everything on the hardest difficulty setting right out of the box.

One problem with the global cooldown is the class specific skills are so much better than the other skills. This causes players to dedicate the vast majority of their cooldowns to the class ability. If everything BUT the class specific ability had a shared cooldown It wouldn't be overpowered and it would encourage the use of more skills.

Also I'm pretty sure I beat those platforms faster than Gatsby in my Claymore trick video, although he didn't shoot 

thisisme8 wrote...

Edit:  Haha!  Kronner beat me to it.  Where's RamsenC and the rest of the gang?

I'm here 

Modifié par RamsenC, 17 février 2010 - 10:31 .

[Graunt]

sinosleep wrote...

blank1 wrote...

So much crying in this thread.

My Insanity Adept was fun as hell. First off, Warp detonations get old a lot slower than "Adrenaline Rush + hold left mouse button," or "Incinerate, Cloak, Snipe," or combat drone spam and incinerate spam.

That right there is the most irritating thing about these threads. People complain and complain and complain about spamming as if the adept is the only class with this issue. EVERY LAST class IN THIS GAME is a spam machine, it's the way it friggen works, PERIOD. And here they are acting as if this is an adept specific issue. 

It probably has to do with the fact that crouching and hitting a button that auto casts on to whatever you have a lock on is pretty damn dull and almost entirely risk free.  Now if you could use more than Warp and Singularity while crouching it's at least some kind of variety.  Wow, instead of using Warp then Singularity I can use Warp and then pull!

Even if an Infiltrator can't be seen when cloaked they still have to manually aim for a head shot and Soldiers do risk dying even with AR up.  Adepts are strong on Insanity, but they are insanely boring.  Both Adepts and Sentinels require a lot more active use (or specific setups) from your squad than a Soldier, Infiltrator and Vanguard.  Can't really say anything about the Engineer.  So it feels more like I'm playing my squad and the Adept is actually the guy hanging around for extra powers.

Modifié par Graunt, 17 février 2010 - 10:33 .