825 réponses à ce sujet

[AussieLokken]

If DA:O is anything to go by, just make a Space Alistair and you'll make them all happy

[Forwen]

Garrus romance was quite disturbing. He's always near the top or on top of my fav list, so I decided why not, but I didn't even fathom that BioWare would write something this physical for a fossilised raptor. I can only imagine what was going on in those Garrus Love threads back in ME1 days...

[drakkan1021]

ninjakittie wrote...

Playing a female Shepard is terrible in ME2, the love interest choice are terrible. Jacob is boring and too nice, Garrus has a half blown up face and too much of a friend, and Thane is awesome and cool but I'll pass on mating with a half fish, half lizard. Looks like hell raiser. Why couldnt I get Jack, Miranda, or Tali. I really wanted Tali. Come on Bioware seriously, with what you made possible in Dragon Age you are going to run away and be forced to be traditional and boring. For shame. 

Good thing Kelly exists to cheer you up with a dance

[BattleVisor]

I think the problem is that Bioware makes human male squad mates, This isnt even about looks, since girl are also very attracted to personality types as well as looks.

Kaiden and Jacob are both equally boring nice guys, despite their desirable physical features, Kaiden's pretty boy face, and Jacob's henchness, but female's are more attracted to the more daring/mysterious/charming personalities, which they both dont have.

The krogans, Garrus and even Thane (a very mystical quality about him) shows these personality traits. But none of the human male squad mates do.

This does make sense on Bioware's part, this alpha male personality belongs only to one human, that is Commander Shepard. It gives gravity to him, as the story revolves around him. So really there are no other attractive human squad mates with this character that would make a decent LI.

This also another why playing Female Shepard is so 'not right', for it devalues the game, (i dont mean to be sexist), but the alpha male personality s obviously not a natural personality for Female and is sometimes cringeworthy.

It can work to have a female protagonist, such as Captain Janeway from voyager en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Janeway But a whole new approach and formula is needed for effective leading females , the whole dialogue is very different from the male counterpart. which would mean changing the whole script, story etc.

Its true in vice versa
For example, try replacing Buffy with a man, and see the problems that surface.

Thats why I dont think Fem Shepard works to begin with in this game, there are too many problems and issues, which are not dealt with and devalue the game.

Conclusion: Male shepard = Great mass effect exp.

Female shepard = experimentation.  

Dont get me wrong I love female protagonists, perfect dark being a favourite, but its a whole different beast, and when it comes to choosing between having the more prevalent/canon male story line, being devalued for the interests of the female; I'll choose the latter.

Modifié par BattleVisor, 06 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[Llandaryn]

The romances for females in Mass Effect 2 are SO bad that I (hetero female) really feel offended.

I don't. My discussions with Jacob (even though I haven't romanced him) seem light-hearted and fun, and I don't feel like I'm under any pressure (other than the pressure to save the galaxy from the Collectors/Reapers yet again...).  Discussions with Garrus also fun and somewhat charming. Situation kinda reminds me of Shrek, with princess wossname eventually realising that what's inside counts more than what's outside (unless you're just after sex, in which case you should obviously going for what is visually appealing to you). Haven't grabbed Thane from Illium yet, so can't comment.

Sad fact is, the writers can't cater to everybody. Had they created three gorgous tall white humans with the face of Adonis and the body of Hercules, everyone would be up in arms about how the black/gay/alien minorities have not been catered to. Female gamers got their eye candy in the form of Alistair in DA:O (or Zevran, if you lean towards elves). We don't need it in every single game. I mean, Jesus Christ, I can't walk past a shop without seeing dozens of glossy magazines portraying people with "perfect" bodies and holding them up as models saying "HEY EVERYONE, THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE!"

I know I'm taking the above example to an extreme, but I feel like game devs are constantly being pressured to cater for the people who want to see the flawless, perfect people in their game, and consequently romance them. I think that Bioware has actually found a good balance between the sublime and the ridiculous. If you want to romance a human, you've got Jacob. No, he isn't modelled on Brad Pitt... thank gods.  If you want an alien, you've got Thane or Garrus. If you actually care about having a pretty face to look at, play Dragon Age; the whole game is full of pretty faces. They even manage to make the bloody Qunari attractive.

This isn't necessarily a rant at the person I'm quoting, just at the complainers. I feel so sorry for the devs and writers, getting flak for this. If it was me, I'd be tempted to say "screw you all", and avoid implementing any romances at all.

That, or I'd stick Alistair's face on a Hanar body and laugh my ass off at the ensuing chaos.

[TheShady]

I think ALL romances in ME2 are horrible. Mostly because they are not really romances, but feel like flings. Exception is Thane, but he just sees his dead wife in you.



My problem with the ME2 romances is that they all feel very superficial and brutally cheesy. It's about sex, in most cases, not actual love or romance, as it was in ME1 and Dragon Age.

Proof to me is that, with a female Shepard, you can have very intimate talks with ALL characters, even with the LIs for males. It's just that one extra (sex) that you get if your Shepard is the correct gender. Miranda and I felt to come very close to each other and Tali just adored me. I pretty much broke through to Jack. The disturbing thing is, though, that you can't get very close to those that are potential love interests. I brushed off Garrus by not jumping on the "relax together in bed" stuff but meant actual sparring and since then I couldn't get a proper conclusion to the conversations. The Thane romance caught me completely off guard, I was just very nice to him cause I felt sorry for him and liked his story, and all of a sudden I'm his siha-thingy. I told him "no way" and lost loyalty, essentially earning him a shot in the head. Same with Jacob, told him "no" early on and couldn't get that much closer to him. So... I got closer to the LIs for males than to the ones for females simply because I didn't want to have woohoo with them.

There is just something evidently lacking in all conversations due to screwed up romances. So the result is that the ME1 romances feel like the true romances and the ME2 romances serve as a physical distraction, even Garrus' and Tali's. My main Shepard stays loyal to Liara and that is, come to think of it, a very good solution. I just hope so deeply that that pays off a great deal in ME3.



About the same-sex relationships: At the very least add 2 homosexual/bisexual characters (one male, one female) simply to please everyone. First because I'm sure there's at least 2 homosexual players out there who might want to reflect their interests onto their Shepards and second because you're building a character, your own Shepard, through roleplaying and with the savegame continuity that is even strengthened. My paragon female Shepard (the one true Shepard) is a closeted lesbian who has a thing for asari and, when it comes to romances and other deeply personal issues, is very shy. My renegade female Shepard likes muscles and my male paragon Shepard thinks men and aliens are kinda gross. I was not properly allowed to carry that over for ME2, except for Samara, perhaps.

[Mooner911]

I think plot support for all pertinent femShep LI's is all there, they're just in a state of development. The only thing BW ignored was titillating and inappropriate cut scenes for flings. IMO, BW did a tactful and true-to-character job.
Miranda/Jack - some women are straight. Get over it. Both would be fling-worthy but neither suitable for long-term romance. Miranda is a hardcore Cerb cheerleader, Shep ain't. Jack's going to split when the killing's done. So get over it and move on.
Garrus - Quick fling. What are friends for? A cut scene would be gratuitous and likely a little too kinky for my tastes. Falls under the category of "why ain't there a cutscene of my femShep peeing?"
Thane/Samara/Jacob/Kelly - Flings. Cut scenes tactfully omitted.
Liara/Kaidan - Romance in development, especially Liara. Got to wait for ME3. ME2 set the stage (including Ash for Shepdudes) for an ME3 romance LI continuation.
Shep is a potential philanderer and understandably so. She's a little too busy mowing down bad guys and saving the universe to be side-tracked by an ME2 romance. What was developed in ME1 is supported in ME2, just put on the back burner while greater things consume her time. So she daly's in flings to get warmth and comfort where she can. Wouldn't you?
Complaints about lack of cutscenes is just gamer voyeurism and hardly fits with the well written intense plot. I expect romance LI's will return in ME3 with suitable plot development and appropriate cutscene support.

Modifié par Mooner911, 06 février 2010 - 04:29 .

[josiahjacob]

my shepherd is a woman, and i think i made the right choice. after playing both games as her, i have trouble picturing shepherd as a guy.

john's voice (while acted very well) kinda put me off. donno why

jennifer hale, though, was fantastic.



however, playing through, i was dissapointed by the LIs availible.

i LIKE garrus. he's awesome. and i can even see how a taurian could be considered attractive. Thane was sweet, and obviously interesting as a LI

but jacob just kinda stood there. i found him very boring as a character.



my issues with the LIs are:

Thane is dying

Garrus acts more like he sees it as a fling

and i think jacob is boring.



now, look at the male choices:

Miranda is made to be the "perfect woman"

i'm surprised that doesn't include being bisexual.

let's face it. if a guy made "the perfect" woman, he'd make her bi.



jack admits to having been with women, so being unable to pursue her is a dissapointment



but it's tali that breaks my heart. i don't know what it is. maybe its how she carries herself, or curiosity about what's behind her mask, her cute voice, or her implied loyalty to shepherd and how much she's thought about [her]

whatever it is, i, and through me, my fem shepherd, really liked her. ok, sure, i understand. not everyone is bi in the future, but still, i REALLY wanted to romance her.



maybe she's just shy about being with jane? and bu ME3 she'll do what she was still to nervous to do in ME2?



ah well. in the end, i stayed loyal to liara. but.... i just don't like the person she's become over two years. i UNDERSTAND what brought about the change, but i don't like it.

[ODST 3]

The majority of females WANT to be screwed. You prefer other forms of stimulation that are not offered in ME 2. Basically another "I want gay romance!!!!!!1!1!" thread in disguise.

[SimonTheFrog]

josiahjacob wrote...

my shepherd is a woman, and i think i made the right choice. after playing both games as her, i have trouble picturing shepherd as a guy.
john's voice (while acted very well) kinda put me off. donno why
jennifer hale, though, was fantastic.

however, playing through, i was dissapointed by the LIs availible.
i LIKE garrus. he's awesome. and i can even see how a taurian could be considered attractive. Thane was sweet, and obviously interesting as a LI
but jacob just kinda stood there. i found him very boring as a character.

my issues with the LIs are:
Thane is dying
Garrus acts more like he sees it as a fling
and i think jacob is boring.

now, look at the male choices:
Miranda is made to be the "perfect woman"
i'm surprised that doesn't include being bisexual.
let's face it. if a guy made "the perfect" woman, he'd make her bi.

jack admits to having been with women, so being unable to pursue her is a dissapointment

but it's tali that breaks my heart. i don't know what it is. maybe its how she carries herself, or curiosity about what's behind her mask, her cute voice, or her implied loyalty to shepherd and how much she's thought about [her]
whatever it is, i, and through me, my fem shepherd, really liked her. ok, sure, i understand. not everyone is bi in the future, but still, i REALLY wanted to romance her.

maybe she's just shy about being with jane? and bu ME3 she'll do what she was still to nervous to do in ME2?

ah well. in the end, i stayed loyal to liara. but.... i just don't like the person she's become over two years. i UNDERSTAND what brought about the change, but i don't like it.

Couldn't have said it better. Perfect summary of my feelings 

[ODST 3]

ShadyKat wrote...

Dark Space is too dark!

and too spacey!

[BattleVisor]

I hate the idea of people perceiving Shepard, as if he was female instead.



The more deterrents to play fem-shep the better

[ODST 3]

TheShady wrote...

The Thane romance caught me completely off guard, I was just very nice to him cause I felt sorry for him and liked his story, and all of a sudden I'm his siha-thingy. I told him "no way" and lost loyalty, essentially earning him a shot in the head.

He would have been shot in the head, loyal or not, if you sent him through the ducts.

[Nautica773]

BattleVisor wrote...

I think the problem is that Bioware makes human male squad mates, This isnt even about looks, since girl are also very attracted to personality types as well as looks.

Kaiden and Jacob are both equally boring nice guys, despite their desirable physical features, Kaiden's pretty boy face, and Jacob's henchness, but female's are more attracted to the more daring/mysterious/charming personalities, which they both dont have.

The krogans, Garrus and even Thane (a very mystical quality about him) shows these personality traits. But none of the human male squad mates do.

This does make sense on Bioware's part, this alpha male personality belongs only to one human, that is Commander Shepard. It gives gravity to him, as the story revolves around him. So really there are no other attractive human squad mates with this character that would make a decent LI.

This also another why playing Female Shepard is so 'not right', for it devalues the game, (i dont mean to be sexist), but the alpha male personality s obviously not a natural personality for Female and is sometimes cringeworthy.

It can work to have a female protagonist, such as Captain Janeway from voyager en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Janeway But a whole new approach and formula is needed for effective leading females , the whole dialogue is very different from the male counterpart. which would mean changing the whole script, story etc.

Its true in vice versa
For example, try replacing Buffy with a man, and see the problems that surface.

Thats why I dont think Fem Shepard works to begin with in this game, there are too many problems and issues, which are not dealt with and devalue the game.

Conclusion: Male shepard = Great mass effect exp.

Female shepard = experimentation.  

Dont get me wrong I love female protagonists, perfect dark being a favourite, but its a whole different beast, and when it comes to choosing between having the more prevalent/canon male story line, being devalued for the interests of the female; I'll choose the latter.

This is probably the silliest thing I have ever read on the forums.

Male Shepard is about as canon as saving the Citadel Council at the end of Mass Effect. There is no reason to try and belittle the female Shepard, especially considering the voice work and dialogue is genuinely better than the male. I hate to say this, but this post is bordering on the patronizing.

[Llandaryn]

To me, it bordered on the "worthy of a brief scan but then completely ignored."

[BattleVisor]

Nautica773 wrote...
but this post is bordering on the patronizing.

Patronizing who?

And I never said the voice acting for the FemShep was bad.

I was making points on why the male human squad mates are created, so they dont overshadow the protagonist Male Shepard.

This conflicts with the interests of the Fem Shepard player's (well the ones who agree with this thread) to have a more interesting human love interest.


I admit my oppinion on Fem Shep being pointless, is just my personal oppinion and I might have made my post seem fuelled by a little bias... but meh

Modifié par BattleVisor, 06 février 2010 - 05:11 .

[Neria Rose]

I wanted Garrus in ME1 and now that I have him in ME2, I can only say, I LOVE the LIs for FemShep. Garrus is the one my FemShep will always love and Thane is just.. soooo beyond sexy.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 06 février 2010 - 05:04 .

[Naltair]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The problem on my part is that they are all essentially the same personality. They're all soldiers/killers and for my female Shepards I don't want her to have that in her life. She is surrounded by that all day, she wouldn't want to bring it home with her. Male Shepard at least has Tali for variety.

The other problem is that BioWare seem want you to change your character's sexual orientation in ME2.  In ME1 they gave you the option of having your female Shepard be attracted to females.  In ME2 this seems to be thrown out the window as female Shepard flirts with Jacob the instant she talks to him on the Normandy which a) makes your character a cheat and changes their sexual orientation without you even being given a choice about it.

That you can't have a F/F Shepard romance actually makes her quite a tragic character in ME2.  You ask express your feelings to Samara but she turns your down, and you and Tali can say you would like to be intimate wih each other but it is never realised.

How is this any more tragic than a male Shepard that wants a male romance and has 0 options.  Seriously some people just focus on their narrow wants and then try and make it a bigger deal than it really is.

[Nautica773]

BattleVisor wrote...

Nautica773 wrote...
but this post is bordering on the patronizing.

Patronizing who?

And I never said the voice acting for the FemShep was bad.

The generalization of what women find attractive. The notion that female Shepard is not an effective character because she's a woman. The idea that there's only a specific way that a woman can lead and that the female option detracts from the game.

I say it's bordering on the patronizing because I suspect that isn't your intentions and is just poorly communicated.

As for the concern of creating a male follower that... somehow overshadows the main protagonist... I really don't see that as an issue. Thane is more "mysterious", Zaeed is certainly more daring and male Shepard is not the most charming individual to grace the galactic stage. Dragon Age Origins had Alistair which a lot of female players absolutely adored and he did not detract from the main player in any way.

Modifié par Nautica773, 06 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[Naltair]

Nautica773 wrote...
The generalization of what women find attractive. The notion that female Shepard is not an effective character because she's a woman. The idea that there's only a specific way that a woman can lead and that the female option detracts from the game.

I say it's bordering on the patronizing because I suspect that isn't your intentions and is just poorly communicated.

I agree that is ridiculous either Shepard is perfectly equal and capable.

[BattleVisor]

Nautica773 wrote...

The generalization of what women find attractive. The notion that female Shepard is not an effective character because she's a woman. The idea that there's only a specific way that a woman can lead and that the female option detracts from the game.

I say it's bordering on the patronizing because I suspect that isn't your intentions and is just poorly communicated.

Hmm well the OP was the one who said, they found the human romance choice too nice and boring, my post was trying to address the OP.

And yeh it wasnt my intention to generalise what women find attractive, but generalisations exist everywhere, we cannot escape them. My comments would be the same as saying men find women with wide hips and perky breasts attractive.

The notion that female Shepard is not an effective character because she's a woman.

Again this is not what i said at all.

my issue is not that she's a woman, its that I believe that because Shepard was desingned primarily to be Male, the cross over to a female, would cause a lot of issues, that werent addressed, because they would mean a lot of work and atlerations to make it work better.

Modifié par BattleVisor, 06 février 2010 - 05:21 .

[Naltair]

Well to the OP's credit the whole thread title is misleading it really has nothing to do with the actual choices and more so the lack of same sex choices for that Shepard. It's more of a bit and switch, all these choices suck but if I had blank then it would be awesome.



It really has nothing to do with her being female at all and more so that she does not get the choice she wants because her character is female.

[Kolaris8472]

BattleVisor wrote...

I think the problem is that Bioware makes human male squad mates, This isnt even about looks, since girl are also very attracted to personality types as well as looks.

Kaiden and Jacob are both equally boring nice guys, despite their desirable physical features, Kaiden's pretty boy face, and Jacob's henchness, but female's are more attracted to the more daring/mysterious/charming personalities, which they both dont have.

The krogans, Garrus and even Thane (a very mystical quality about him) shows these personality traits. But none of the human male squad mates do.

This does make sense on Bioware's part, this alpha male personality belongs only to one human, that is Commander Shepard. It gives gravity to him, as the story revolves around him. So really there are no other attractive human squad mates with this character that would make a decent LI.

This also another why playing Female Shepard is so 'not right', for it devalues the game, (i dont mean to be sexist), but the alpha male personality s obviously not a natural personality for Female and is sometimes cringeworthy.

It can work to have a female protagonist, such as Captain Janeway from voyager en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Janeway But a whole new approach and formula is needed for effective leading females , the whole dialogue is very different from the male counterpart. which would mean changing the whole script, story etc.

Its true in vice versa
For example, try replacing Buffy with a man, and see the problems that surface.

Thats why I dont think Fem Shepard works to begin with in this game, there are too many problems and issues, which are not dealt with and devalue the game.

Conclusion: Male shepard = Great mass effect exp.

Female shepard = experimentation.  

Dont get me wrong I love female protagonists, perfect dark being a favourite, but its a whole different beast, and when it comes to choosing between having the more prevalent/canon male story line, being devalued for the interests of the female; I'll choose the latter.

I had to laugh, you say Commander Shephard doesn't work as a female lead then posit Janewary from Voyager, a hypocritical captain who is basically riding a tide of emotional issues across the delta quadrant. 

So I take it when you mean they have to be different, they have to be pms'ing the whole time, with lines and dialog showing that?