192 réponses à ce sujet

[blank1]

VampireCommando wrote...

The_Juggern0tt wrote...

You only get to grab a weapon/weapon training once unfortunately (I to, dreamed of being armed with a Widow and a Revenant). When you reach that point on your 2nd playthrough, it just gets skipped.

I was looking forward to this aswel my friend, i dreamed of my soldier having a revenant, widow and claymore, but alas it was not to be.
*shakes fist angerly up in the air* god damn you bioware for not letting it be ^ ^. However saying that the new DLC shotgun is rather powerful, even if it does a minor ammo issue and look like a fanny pack on your bacl lol

You can get the DLC shottie, which poops all over the Claymore :3

[Hoffburger]

I use Vindicator/Viper/M-22. All 3 of the bonus weapons suck for Soldiers IMO because of the way Adrenaline Rush works. M-22 for Husks and if you run out of ammo. Vindicator for anything with shields/barrier, viper for anything too far away or has armor.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 13 février 2010 - 12:34 .

[tonnactus]

RamsenC wrote...

The Widow is what makes the soldier a power house class, 

No.The widow make sense with the Infiltrators cloak,that nearly doubles weapon damage.Its a better pick for a infiltrator.

Modifié par tonnactus, 13 février 2010 - 10:11 .

[Homebound]

Im playing to get my Insanity achievement. And I must say, Revenant FTW. This is probably the first time Ive heard the "No bullets left" sound effect on the Revenant. Any other AR and I woulda died 5 minutes ago.

[JaegerBane]

Athenau wrote...
Wrong. Magazine size is intrinsic to the weapon. You can't fire without eventually stopping to reload. That is an iron rule. Your argument is a just a lame attempt at equivocation.

Athenau, it isn't particularly conducive to a civil discussion to keep blurting out 'wrong' like a broken dictaphone. Particularly when what you're effectively claiming is that weapons with larger magazine sizes are always superior DPS pieces irrespective of the actual damage they cause.

Obviously you can't fire without stopping to reload, no-one is disputing this, so stop using it as a smokescreen. The point is not that you have to stop to reload, the point is, as a rule, weapons with smaller magazines generally have heaver burst damage than weapons with larger magazines as compensation.

Ignoring this entire concept is little more than bias. Even back in ME1, which had no concept of magazines, it was not a point of argument that a sniper rifle with Master Assasination actually beat the pistol with MM despite the pistol having better constant DPS. The two issues can co-exist and are seperate points, and obstinately refusing to admit that doesn't do your entire argument any justice.

Wrong again. The Viper fires 4 rounds per second. The Vindicator fires 2 bursts per second, for an effective fire rate of 6 rounds/sec. The viper does more than twice the damage per round. You should be able to draw the obvious conclusion without my having to spoon feed you.

I would appreciate it if you adopted a little less petulant a tone, Althenau. Particularly when what you're saying is in direct conflict with the the data we have available. I'm open to the idea that the data in gamefaqs may be erroneus but I'm afraid I'd need a more insightful argument than your ego exploding onto the text field.

First of all, how can a viper fire four rounds a second when it's refire rate is is actually less than the Vindicator, and the vindicator bursts are 3 rounds each?? Secondly, how can you arbitrarily include magazine size in the first argument but then decide that recoil (which is over 5 times the Vindicator in zoom and undoubtedly has some effect on DPS, as it is the biggest obstacle to hitting) has no place in the argument? I'm going to assume you have a reason for not including it beyond the simple fact that it doesn't fit with your position.

I already explained why armor penetration is relevant on higher difficulties. I'm not going to waste my time doing it again.

And when did difficulty levels enter this equation? Is this just another detail you've decided to throw in?

[SashyNL]

i dont now wich one is better and am i the only one who uses the geth rifle

[JaegerBane]

SashyNL wrote...

i dont now wich one is better and am i the only one who uses the geth rifle

The geth rifle is just plain weird. It's an AR that wants to be a submachine gun.

Personally, my Soldier char prefers the Revenant. The Geth Rifle isn't that useful for any character that can carry it, as Soldiers have much better options, and non-soldiers that have taken ARs have submachine guns. It is, IIRC, the only AR that is underpowered against armour.

[Athenau]

Athenau, it isn't particularly conducive to a civil discussion to
keep blurting out 'wrong' like a broken dictaphone. Particularly when
what you're effectively claiming is that weapons with larger magazine
sizes are always superior DPS pieces irrespective of the actual damage
they cause.

I'll call your arguments wrong as long as they're wrong, as they are in this instance, with this particularly egregious strawman.

"Weapons with larger magazine sizes are always superior dps pieces irrespective of the actual damage they cause."

Really?  I claimed this?  When I calculated those dps numbers from the actual weapon damage?  So I somehow completely disregarded weapon damage while at the same time I used it explicitly in my calculations.  That's a neat trick.

It seems to me that if you actually wanted a discussion you'd engage with actual facts and arguments rather than putting words in my mouth and waving your hands screaming that my posts are all a bunch of irrelevant details.

You get civility when you decide to be intellectually honest.  Not before.

Obviously you can't fire without stopping to reload,
no-one is disputing this, so stop using it as a smokescreen. The point
is not that you have to stop to reload, the point is, as a rule, weapons
with smaller magazines generally have heaver burst damage than weapons
with larger magazines as compensation.

Ignoring this entire
concept is little more than bias. Even back in ME1, which had no concept
of magazines, it was not a point of argument that a sniper rifle with
Master Assasination actually beat the pistol with MM despite the pistol
having better constant DPS. The two issues can co-exist and are seperate
points, and obstinately refusing to admit that doesn't do your entire
argument any justice.

I am not talking about burst damage.  I am talking about dps.   The whole concept of "burst dps" is a contradiction in terms.  Dps, by definition is an average over time.  Burst damage is a sum over some fixed (and very short) period of time. 

All other things equal, weapons with bigger magazines have higher damage over time.   Why you persist in trying to refute this is baffling.

And bringing up burst damage doesn't  do your argument any favors.   Weapons with bigger damage packets have better burst damage, so the viper is entirely superior to the vindicator in this department.

First of all, how can a viper fire four rounds a second when it's refire
rate is is actually less than the Vindicator, and the vindicator bursts
are 3 rounds each?? Secondly, how can you arbitrarily include magazine
size in the first argument but then decide that recoil (which is over 5
times the Vindicator in zoom and undoubtedly has some effect on DPS, as
it is the biggest obstacle to hitting) has no place in the argument? I'm
going to assume you have a reason for not including it beyond the
simple fact that it doesn't fit with your position.

At this point, I have to wonder if you've actually a.  used the viper, b.  actually tested any of the (wrong) assertions you make, or c.  looked at the data in the coalesced.ini file.

It's obvious to anyone who has tried out the viper that it fires faster than the 1.5 rounds/sec (1/.65s) number that the burst refire number taken from the gamefaqs chart would indicate.  That's because it's the ROF field that controls the rate of fire and that number is 240 (aka four rounds per second).

And recoil?  Seriously?  First of all, if you're using adrenaline rush (which you should be) the recoil is completely negligible.  And if you're firing outside of adrenaline rush, the recoil recovers fast enough so that the crosshairs return to where you were aiming in time for the next shot.

And when did difficulty levels enter this equation? Is this just
another detail you've decided to throw in?

Uh, from my  first post?   Really, I don't think it's too much to expect you to read what I write before replying.  It's not as if I'm speaking some strange moon language, right?  It looks very much like English to me.

I don't see the point of discussing weapon minutiae in the context of the lower difficulty levels, the game is easy enough there that anything will work well.

Modifié par Athenau, 13 février 2010 - 01:19 .

[grex4d]

Just_mike wrote...

Im playing to get my Insanity achievement. And I must say, Revenant FTW. This is probably the first time Ive heard the "No bullets left" sound effect on the Revenant. Any other AR and I woulda died 5 minutes ago.

Well since i took the widow on the first play through, was hoping i could pick up the rev on 2nd go through on insanity, as i've just found out, i cant -.-

And yeah, constantly running out of ammo with vindicator, at one point i only had shotgun ammo left, since everything has extra armor/shield/barrier over first playthrough on veteran.

Only vorcha really get 1 shotted by widow on insanity

[Gaidren]

I preferred Vindicator + Widow to Revenant + Viper.....but to be fair, at the very end of the game I wish I had the Rev. Ammo gets tight on the very last fight (to be honest, I don't find ammo that scarce otherwise with the Vind) and the Rev would have been amazing vs. Husk swarms (honestly, Husk swarms aren't that bad *EXCEPT* during the insect swarm stage where you have like no room to run).



To be fair, I never tried the Rev with the accuracy upgrade. Maybe I'd have liked it more if I had...it was just waaaaay too sloppy compared to the Vind for my tastes when I tried it.



For people running out of ammo like crazy with the Vind....honestly, I hardly ever fire a shot with the Vind that isn't 1.) a headshot and 2.) with the Adren Rush damage boost. I make every shot realllly count, and therefore almost never run out of ammo. I'll also let my squad finish something off if I know I safely can, and save the bullets.

[Tryst]

Jaegerbane, when Athenau says the Viper can shoot 4 rounds per second, he is correct. The refire rate only applies if you hold the trigger button down. If instead you press repeatedly, you will fire at the ROF rate, which for the Viper is about 0.25 seconds per shot. This more than doubles the dps of the Viper, at the cost of increased exposure and having to put 4.5 rounds into the head versus the Widow's one.

[Gaidren]

I actually find it harder to chain headshots with the Viper during an Adren Rush than with the Vindicator. I don't know why. I also find it easier with the Vind to switch between targets mid-Rush, so I sometimes can kill multiples during a single AR (if they are already weakened). This is on Insanity.

[SonsofNorthWind]

So we can compare weapons by:



1. Burst Damage - where widow is king.

2. DPS - where, from the numbers in the Gamefaqs file, Incisor is king. (Don't have, can't check). It's also worth noting that sniper weapons DPS correlates more to player skill and/or playing Soldier or Infiltrator (which softens the need for skill via time dilation).

3. Stamina - a mix of damage per full clip / full ammo capacity / damage per reload. Damage per full loadout is a reasonable starting point for "stamina" of a weapon, but some weapons only reload a single shot per heat clip while others reload multiple clips worth (such as the Avenger and, I would assume, Revenant). Revenant is the clear winner here as weapon capable of outputting the most damage off a fully stocked ammo supply.

[Darkstar87uk]

I'm playing a soldier on insanity and hated the Vindicator. Even with all the upgrades it just sucks, to do the real damage you need to get up close so you might aswell be using a shotgun..

[RighteousRage]

I use the vindicator, but that's mostly because I've utterly failed to ever try the revenant

Also as to the above post, I'm on insanity and I can kill many enemies in 2-3 sprays of the vindicator. That's not very poor damage.

Modifié par RighteousRage, 16 février 2010 - 04:57 .

[Roxlimn]

Jaegerbane:

The Geth Pulse Rifle isn't actually bad - it's just weird. Until you get a Revenant option, the Geth Rifle, I find, is the best weapon to take against Geth because they have relatively larger increments of their HP in Shields than in Health, and GPR strips Shields and Barriers the best of the standard ARs.

Also, if you're planning to use power combos by asking your mates to stand somewhere safe and just use their powers, you can strip Shields and Barriers best with GPR, then kill with Warp Explosion or something similar. Even against Blue Suns, it may be best to take a GPR along, then finish off undefended enemies with a sniper rifle or a pistol. It's all about specialization and specs.

For instance, you can arm your GPR with Disruptor ammo - this allows you to strip Shields ridiculously fast. Strip consecutive enemies with your AR, then Concussive Blast them down, then pull out your Shotgun with AP Ammo (or even Shredder!) and close in for the kill. You can even use a Predator with AP or Shredder Ammo for finishing off organics.

I found Shredder to be not so bad, actually. It's true that it only works on organics. However, it's also true that you will almost never be shifting out of Disruptor Ammo against synthetics anyways. It's a slightly different focus and you'll be slightly weaker against LOKI Mechs, but it's not like they're hard to take out anyway.

Also, all classes eventually can acquire access to the GPR.  It is a compelling acquisition for the Adept especially, as the class has a built-in lack of options against Shields.  It's a little redundant with Tempest, but it is a better gun than the Tempest at longer ranges, and you can switch out between them for ammo switches.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 16 février 2010 - 05:26 .

[Thompson family]

I despised the Revenant's lack of accuracy so much I went back — and then died repeatedly on Insanity level. So I went back again and made a more determined effort to fire short bursts unless I was too close to miss. Learning how to use a sniper rifle even at ranges that are into medium distances didn't hurt either. Revenant all the way.

[JaegerBane]

Trystz wrote...

Jaegerbane, when Athenau says the Viper can shoot 4 rounds per second, he is correct. The refire rate only applies if you hold the trigger button down. If instead you press repeatedly, you will fire at the ROF rate, which for the Viper is about 0.25 seconds per shot. This more than doubles the dps of the Viper, at the cost of increased exposure and having to put 4.5 rounds into the head versus the Widow's one.

That certainly clears up a lot of confusion, Trystz. I'm giving the Viper a whirl full-time on my current Vanguard playthrough, since I've decided that I prefer the Tempest to any of the auto assault rifles

[Catfish42]

Vindicator with AP bullets and Adrenaline rush. You'll be able to put 6 bullets right into an enemy's head. Also gives you the chance to pick up the Widow sniper rifle, which (again while using adrenaline) beats out just about every other heavy weapon in the game.



Revenant is just too inaccurate; you'll be dealing more damage per shot, but less damage overall because of misses/firing in small bursts. Also requires you you get pretty close to the action to be effective, exposing you to enemy fire.



*Note this only applies to Veteran/Hardcore; i haven't tested out insanity yet. May not be applicable.

[blank1]

The Revenant, particularly with the accuracy upgrade, is the inaccurate. You just can't aim or control the recoil correctly.



Also, someone mentioned that the Widow and Vindicator benefits more from Adrenaline Rush than the Revenant... I don't find your logic sound. The Revenant can fire all day long in Adrenaline Rush, with its 100% damage increase, whereas the Vindicator needs to take a .625 second break between bursts. The Widow is an even worse choice for Adrenaline Rush... you can really only line up one shot, then its reload time. The Viper works very well with Adrenaline Rush, though.

[RamsenC]

tonnactus wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

The Widow is what makes the soldier a power house class, 

No.The widow make sense with the Infiltrators cloak,that nearly doubles weapon damage.Its a better pick for a infiltrator.

You know adrenaline rush gives a 100% damage boost which is more than the cloak damage boost. Either way I've since changed my mind. Revenant is just too fun and Viper handles ranged combat fine.

If your class does not have a sniper rifle Vindicator is better.

Modifié par RamsenC, 17 février 2010 - 03:30 .

[mybudgee]

hey guys, remember, it's a GAME!! do not take it TOO seriously. just have fun.

[JaegerBane]

mybudgee wrote...

hey guys, remember, it's a GAME!! do not take it TOO seriously. just have fun.

You resurrected the thread to say this?

[newcomplex]

JaegerBane wrote...

I would appreciate it if you adopted a little less petulant a tone, Althenau. Particularly when what you're saying is in direct conflict with the the data we have available. I'm open to the idea that the data in gamefaqs may be erroneus but I'm afraid I'd need a more insightful argument than your ego exploding onto the text field.

First of all, how can a viper fire four rounds a second when it's refire rate is is actually less than the Vindicator, and the vindicator bursts are 3 rounds each?? Secondly, how can you arbitrarily include magazine size in the first argument but then decide that recoil (which is over 5 times the Vindicator in zoom and undoubtedly has some effect on DPS, as it is the biggest obstacle to hitting) has no place in the argument? I'm going to assume you have a reason for not including it beyond the simple fact that it doesn't fit with your position.

uh....
Viper has a RPM of 240, it is a semiautomattic weapon though.    If you hold down mouse, it does 80 dps, if you spam click it does 240.     Very simple.

And uh, vindicator doesn't have zoom.    Which I'm sure is an even bigger detriment to accuracy.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 19 février 2010 - 01:25 .

[padaE]

Vindicator Battle Rifle is the best Assault Rifle in Mass Effect 2

.

This is the 4th Mass Effect 2 law.