290 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

There wasn't enough build up to the human Reaper. Sure, the reveal was interesting.

The battle, not so much...

[dajackal07]

I think it would be funny if the LARVA would recognize you through having assimilating Kelly and other crew members.

Reaper LI ftw

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Yer i didn't love Terminator Kong.. Saren was such an awesome villain, terminator kong was... yer maybe it was just the fight idk.

I didn't think it looked like the Terminator until someone said it though

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 10 juin 2010 - 12:05 .

[BrutalWolfs]

I wonder if it would have the mind of a human? I mean, with all these people floating around in it, wouldent one of them see common sense?

[Mayson02]

I would have made the collector "General" be the end boss of the game.



I would have had Shepard and company walk into an enormous control room with a large window that overlooks a "dry dock". Through the window we would see a partially constructed Reaper similar in appearance to what we've already seen in the past. Shepard would give a speech about "blowing up this abomination".



Suddenly we'd hear a booming voice that seems to fill up the entire room; coming from everywhere at once. "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL".



Similar to the queen Alien in the movie Aliens, we see this enormous spider-like creature unfold itself and break its connection to the Collector base.



Shepard and Co battle the General (firing a "swarm cannon" would actually make sense for the General. Perhaps he births them). As he lies on the ground bleeding a broken,. Harbinger releases his grip on the General who has some parting apologetic words.



EDI breaks in saying she's getting a transmission from the partially constructed Reaper. It's like 1000 voices trying to talk at once. Suddenly, the voices coalesce into one. (if you let any of your crew get "juiced" it's them). The voice begs for you to kill them before the Reaper consciousness inside takes control of the humans and threatens you.



The game ends as it originally did with you deciding to keep the base/reaper or blow it.

[JaegerBane]

Revan312 wrote...
If the reapers are so past our
level of understanding then why do they need actual humans to make the
new reaper. Their level of technology is so far past our own that the entire plot revolving around the reapers is looking more and more ridiculous.  Their large, intricate and complex plans seem moot because 1.) their technology is so advanced one would assume they would be past needing actual organics for reproduction and 2.) there are so many of them. Why they haven't figured out a way to simply clone beings and create reapers out of said clones really doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not really sure whether you've grasped what's actually happening in the game.

Has it actually occurred to you that the Reapers may not want or even thought of reproducing in any other way? We don't even know *what* the Reapers are - whether they're a species, a rogue evolved AI, and experiment... we have no idea. When you ask Sovereign he responds with a dismissive retort that, taken literally, doesn't make any sense.

Add to the fact that you've made some flat out silly assumptions about why they can't 'clone' themselves (tell me, how precisely does a an artificial creature made out of a transmuted metal 'clone' itself?) and I can't help feel that you've decided that you don't like the concept and you're manufacturing an argument to support it, rather than the other way round.

Also it's hinted at that the collectors themselves were indoctrinated (they were protheans after all), I can't imagine why they couldn't do the same to the human colonists they abduct. Or, why not make them all husks, the collectors create better than average husks, husk monstrosities, exploding husks.. All of which seem to do a pretty good job of killing, so to assume that creating an army out of the humans, an army that is obviously a better investment of resources, is worse than a 50 foot tall skeleton with laser breath is just defending Bioware's story for the sake of it.

Again, it isn't clear whether you've grasped what's going on. In the first game a full-blooded Reaper and an army of Geth failed to open up the Citadel Relay. You're suggesting some husks would succeed where they did not?

And again... you're assuming that indoctrination is something the Collectors can somehow use. Here's an interesting idea... have you considered whether Indoctrination is something the Reapers themselves can totally control? You see people indoctrinated by static devices and dead reapers. Is it really so hard to consider whether Indoctrination is simply a built-in tool that whoever created the Reapers left active?

We simply don't know enough about the Reapers to decide whether this stuff is 'contrived'.

Also, to anyone saying that it's in an early stage of development and will most likely be encassed with a much larger shell, why make the thing have weapons at this point then? Last time I checked I didn't have a mouth that could shoot plasma so obviously that's not part of the "human" genes used...

This is flagrantly stupid argument. The Reapers aren't actually growing a human, for god's sake, ergo claiming the existence of weapons on a Reaper embryo somehow shouldn't be is little more than an advertisment that you're desperate to poke holes in the argument.

I mean, has it even occurred to you that the massive blast might not actually be a bonafide weapon? 

Sovereign said, and I quote "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident." Also, "Before us, you are nothing.  Your extinction is inevitable." He goes on further about destruction and end times, and annihilation etc, seems he's not too keen on organic life... 

Plus he only really allows the geth to fight for him and makes sure that even his biggest fan, Saren, is almost completely turned into a synthetic himself.  I don't care what you say, Sovereign hates organics as he continually killed them en mass, brain washed them, implanted them to the point of them pretty much being robots and talked about organics as if he were a genocidal tyrant, he hates living beings...

And yet Harbinger decrees that the Reapers are our salvation through our destruction. Whether you choose to ignore it or not, there is never a real incidence where the Reapers advertise actual hate. Sovereign is being coldly logical, yes. Hell, the belief in inevitable extinction might even be the whole reason the Reapers are pursuing their cyclic rounds of destruction.

Again, we just don't know enough to be sure. You apparently, have it all figured out.

Heres where reading comprehension comes in, read my post, I said why don't they just use the collector army along with the thousands of potentialy indoctrinated humans/potential husks (look above for the explanation as I'm wondering if you don't simply skim) to attack the citadel, overwrite the keepers and send in the fleet of reapers...  Seems to me the collector's cruiser is pretty powerful, far more so than the geth ships so I can't see why they couldn't pull it off reasonably well.  At least it would be a better plan than liquefying thousands of potential soldiers just to try and make a retarded T-3000...

Right. So a Collector cruiser which is wtfpwned in seconds by an advanced human frigate is somehow going to break through the defences of a heavily defended Citadel.

It's all very well banging on about reading comprehensions, but you really need to have some grasp of logic before you start throwing such insults around.

Bottom line is your trying really hard to defend a ridiculously contrived plot that was put in place solely to have a larger than life boss fight at the end, one that most think was lame. There was a million ways to go about that ending that would have been both more meaningful and logical. Bioware dropped the ball big time on that ending and as such I felt it ruined any immersive experience I had up to that point. 

Actually, the bottom line is that you've pulled a string of assumptions out of your butt and seem to be rather upset that someone has had the audacity to assume they don't know everything, and made their argument from there. No more, no less. Ultimately, all this boils down to you deciding that you didn't like the idea - you're free to have your opinion whatever that may be, but please don't act like all that crap you've posted somehow proves that it's contrived. Hell, half your hysterics didn't even make sense.

[FourSixEight]

Vaenier wrote...

When flying through space, would it do the backstroke or a superman?

As it has been said, what you saw was not a finished Reaper. Nowhere even close.

If it was a finished Reaper you're fighting on foot, there'd be no battle, Shepard would have died. It's implied that what you fought is most likely the interior part, or the core, of the Reaper. When it's finished, the Human Reaper would probably look just like the standard space squid design on the outside.

[Mayson02]

FourSixEight wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

When flying through space, would it do the backstroke or a superman?

As it has been said, what you saw was not a finished Reaper. Nowhere even close.

If it was a finished Reaper you're fighting on foot, there'd be no battle, Shepard would have died. It's implied that what you fought is most likely the interior part, or the core, of the Reaper. When it's finished, the Human Reaper would probably look just like the standard space squid design on the outside.

I keep reading that explaination, but I don't think it makes the giant robot any less dumber.

It means that each reaper has this big giant robot "guy" sitting inside of it.  What does he do in there?  Is he the pilot?  Does he just sing I'M A REAPER, I'M A REAPER, LOOK AT MEEEEE, I'M A REAPER!

[calabain]

Mayson02 wrote...

FourSixEight wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

When flying through space, would it do the backstroke or a superman?

As it has been said, what you saw was not a finished Reaper. Nowhere even close.

If it was a finished Reaper you're fighting on foot, there'd be no battle, Shepard would have died. It's implied that what you fought is most likely the interior part, or the core, of the Reaper. When it's finished, the Human Reaper would probably look just like the standard space squid design on the outside.

I keep reading that explaination, but I don't think it makes the giant robot any less dumber.

It means that each reaper has this big giant robot "guy" sitting inside of it.  What does he do in there?  Is he the pilot?  Does he just sing I'M A REAPER, I'M A REAPER, LOOK AT MEEEEE, I'M A REAPER!

Actually probably a mix of both lol

I think if the design didn't look so terminator-ish and if the fight was a bit better it wouldn't be that bad of a closer, and I understand what they were trying to do (make the threat of a reaper as direct as in ME1).  I actually have the artbook and there seems to be a piece of concept art where the embryo is much bigger and a lot cooler looking, but wouldn't have probably wouldn't have worked in a fight because of the way its form was so twisted

[jgordon11]

What you face is probably just the larva stage and just like normal animals (we all look like fish) Thats right early babies look like fish due to what we evolved from. So using the same logic backwards since that reaper would be from humans its early form is in the shape of a human, but would probably later be added to resulting in looking like a squid like other reapers. This would explain the slightly differenet, but not completely differenet shapes of the reapers.



It isalso most likely the core processes and perhaps they are even designed after the organics themselves. The chest is where the power source is and the head is where the main processer is. Also look how small it is in comparison to sovereign, its clearly just part of it and will turn into a gaint squid later.



We all know its kind of stupid that is so closely resembles a human, but bioware made this omst likely to show that this wasn't just any reaper, but a reaper made from humans.

[Dean_the_Young]

FourSixEight wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

When flying through space, would it do the backstroke or a superman?

As it has been said, what you saw was not a finished Reaper. Nowhere even close.

If it was a finished Reaper you're fighting on foot, there'd be no battle, Shepard would have died. It's implied that what you fought is most likely the interior part, or the core, of the Reaper. When it's finished, the Human Reaper would probably look just like the standard space squid design on the outside.

Why would it look like a squid? The other species of Reapers we saw didn't all look like Sovereign: the implication is that the Reapers look like the species they take, with the head-cone added in. What we would see is a 'fleshed out' form, not a basic skeleton.

Why should a giant space human be any less ridiculous than a giant space squid? It's not like Sovereign was the epitomy of efficiency of design.

Simple answer is that the Reapers aren't too particular about pure mechanical design efficiency: their designs are a matter of whatever their motive is, and they just let technology cover the gap.

[sumof all fear]

When I look at the scale of the human reaper torso that we saw, it is clearly not 8 Km long like sovrign, or even close to 1 Km long.



This leads me to think its more of a ground based reaper that will be a component of a reaper system that includes a squid like spaceship thing that it goes into... which still dosn't make much sense... and i'm just rambling now...

[Dean_the_Young]

Of course it wasn't 8 km. It was only barely started, and the Collectors hadn't even attacked Earth yet. Do you start out at 5 feet in your mother's womb? Does a mile long track start out at a mile long as it's being created?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 11 juin 2010 - 12:30 .

[JaegerBane]

jgordon11 wrote...

What you face is probably just the larva stage and just like normal animals (we all look like fish) Thats right early babies look like fish due to what we evolved from. So using the same logic backwards since that reaper would be from humans its early form is in the shape of a human, but would probably later be added to resulting in looking like a squid like other reapers. This would explain the slightly differenet, but not completely differenet shapes of the reapers.

This sounds like something George Bush would say, no offence

As far as we know, it looks like a human because it was made out humans. Whether it morphs into a more stereotypically Reaper shape is unknown... but occam's razor would probably say once fully grown it would have simply looked like a human.

And wtf is all this about how we evolved from fish and therefore look like fish as embryos? Whether we look like fish at the embryonic stage is a matter of opinion... and I've yet to come across anything at all to suggest humans specifically evolved from fish...

[JaegerBane]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Why should a giant space human be any less ridiculous than a giant space squid? It's not like Sovereign was the epitomy of efficiency of design.

Simple answer is that the Reapers aren't too particular about pure mechanical design efficiency: their designs are a matter of whatever their motive is, and they just let technology cover the gap.

Exactly. I think people are getting a bit arbitrary with the whole human skeleton issue. They've decided they don't like it, and that is all there is to it - there isn't any 'logical' or 'objective' reasoning why it was a bad idea.

[JKoopman]

JaegerBane wrote...

Actually, the bottom line is that you've pulled a string of assumptions out of your butt and seem to be rather upset that someone has had the audacity to assume they don't know everything, and made their argument from there. No more, no less. Ultimately, all this boils down to you deciding that you didn't like the idea - you're free to have your opinion whatever that may be, but please don't act like all that crap you've posted somehow proves that it's contrived. Hell, half your hysterics didn't even make sense.

Pot, meet Kettle. How is what you and others who defend the humanoid reaper concept are doing any different? You lambast people for "pulling half-cocked justifications out of their asses" to discount the ending of ME2, but isn't that exactly what many of your own theories are? Last time I checked, there was no evidence whatsoever that the humanoid reaper was somehow designed to be encased in a squid reaper shell, nor was there evidence for any of the other wild theories in support of it. That's just an idea that someone pulled out of their ass to try to make the human reaper seem slightly more plausible and less retarded, and everyone else just ran with it.

The fact that a few people before you have suggested something doesn't make it "accepted fact". Frankly, I find the concept of a humanoid mini-reaper inside the shell of a larger squid reaper just as idiotic as the concept of the humanoid reaper itself. What does he do in there? Does he have a little wheel that he turns to steer the ship? Maybe a captain's cap? That's like saying, "I'm going to build a giant computer by first building a tiny humanoid robot and then encasing him in a giant ATX tower frame where he can pull levers and push buttons to make it work." And for that matter, if all reapers had little alien skeleton robots inside them, why didn't we see one come tumbling out when Sovereign was destroyed?

No matter what explanations you can come up with to justify it, when it comes right down to it, what BioWare did with the ending of ME2 is take something that was cool and turn it into something that's ridiculous.

[Mayson02]

The "larva stage" argument is kind of funny too.



You know, I was building my new computer and it didn't start out with an LCD monitor and mouse.



First, I started with an abacus. Because all computers originally looked like an abacus. Next I added vacuum tubes and it just sort of went from there.

[JamesGray33]

I think the human reaper was awesome. BioWare hasn't made any mistakes, they just haven't told us wtf was up with that. Maybe it's not a Reaper at all. Maybe it's just a new weapon the Reapers want to build. Maybe it's just a tool to understand how humans work before they decide to turn them into the equivalent of collectors...no one knows except BioWare

I think they meant to have their fans feeling conflicted over the ending, because in every great trilogy there's that wtf moment in the second one where we need the third one to clarify

[JaegerBane]

JKoopman wrote...
Pot, meet Kettle. How is what you and others who defend the humanoid reaper concept are doing any different? You lambast people for "pulling half-cocked justifications out of their asses" to discount the ending of ME2, but isn't that exactly what many of your own theories are?
<blah blah blah>
No matter what explanations you can come up with to justify it, when it comes right down to it, what BioWare did with the ending of ME2 is take something that was cool and turn it into something that's ridiculous.

Koopman, I'm not really sure why you're replying to me when discussing the whole 'humanoid in a squid concept'. I neither came up with it, nor do I support it - as my previous posts should make clear.

The issue I have is that people are just arbitrarily deciding that skeletal-looking alien is 'ridiculous'. There's no real sensible reasoning in here - just a lot of people who seem to think anything that looks like a skeleton is wrong. I'm not really interested in the reasoning for such a bull-headed position, all I was saying to the previous guy was that he was dressing up said position as something that he'd arrived to through careful thought, rather than knee jerk 'wah wah wah they copied the terminator' cliche.

As I said, everyone is free to decide what they think of it. It's just a lot more conducive to discussion if people don't try to claim they're arbitrary knee-jerk thinking is anything more than it is. As has been said before, on paper, it doesn't make sense to claim that a giant skeletal alien is any more daft than a giant squid alien.

[Ooga600]

The gray goo makes the reaper's brain, so each one is a collective species, like the geth. The reapers are built like the species for shock and awe purposes, and the human reaper would've been built a squid-like shell to use for space travel. Maybe if they land and rape a planet, they exit the shell and just start ****ing **** up looking like their donor species. We've never seen a reaper LAND, just sort of hover in the atmosphere.

That's my theory anyway...

Modifié par Ooga600, 13 juin 2010 - 04:49 .

[Vaenier]

Ooga600 wrote...

The gray goo makes the reaper's brain, so each one is a collective species, like the geth. The reapers are built like the species for shock and awe purposes, and the human reaper would've been built a squid-like shell to use for space travel. Maybe if they land and rape a planet, they exit the shell and just start ****ing **** up looking like their donor species. We've never seen a reaper LAND, just sort of hover in the atmosphere.

That's my theory anyway...

It would have popped out of Soverign when he split open. Besides the main core of the derelect reaper is not in a mini reaper guy either. it is just the ship.

[Vaenier]

JaegerBane wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
Pot, meet Kettle. How is what you and others who defend the humanoid reaper concept are doing any different? You lambast people for "pulling half-cocked justifications out of their asses" to discount the ending of ME2, but isn't that exactly what many of your own theories are?

No matter what explanations you can come up with to justify it, when it comes right down to it, what BioWare did with the ending of ME2 is take something that was cool and turn it into something that's ridiculous.

Koopman, I'm not really sure why you're replying to me when discussing the whole 'humanoid in a squid concept'. I neither came up with it, nor do I support it - as my previous posts should make clear.

The issue I have is that people are just arbitrarily deciding that skeletal-looking alien is 'ridiculous'. There's no real sensible reasoning in here - just a lot of people who seem to think anything that looks like a skeleton is wrong. I'm not really interested in the reasoning for such a bull-headed position, all I was saying to the previous guy was that he was dressing up said position as something that he'd arrived to through careful thought, rather than knee jerk 'wah wah wah they copied the terminator' cliche.

As I said, everyone is free to decide what they think of it. It's just a lot more conducive to discussion if people don't try to claim they're arbitrary knee-jerk thinking is anything more than it is. As has been said before, on paper, it doesn't make sense to claim that a giant skeletal alien is any more daft than a giant squid alien.

It is wrong for a space ship. Animals are just bad designs for ships. they waste space, create unneccesary weak points, and just overall waste resources. limbs are useless on a ship. they were bad enough on soverign, a human would be even worse.

[Ooga600]

Vaenier wrote...

Ooga600 wrote...

The gray goo makes the reaper's brain, so each one is a collective species, like the geth. The reapers are built like the species for shock and awe purposes, and the human reaper would've been built a squid-like shell to use for space travel. Maybe if they land and rape a planet, they exit the shell and just start ****ing **** up looking like their donor species. We've never seen a reaper LAND, just sort of hover in the atmosphere.

That's my theory anyway...

It would have popped out of Soverign when he split open. Besides the main core of the derelect reaper is not in a mini reaper guy either. it is just the ship.

probably. maybe the human reaper isn't even a traditional reaper. Maybe it has the same collective consciousness thing but it's more of a land weapon. i.e. the collectors would drop it on the Citadel to rape everyone.

[Vaenier]

Ooga600 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Ooga600 wrote...

The gray goo makes the reaper's brain, so each one is a collective species, like the geth. The reapers are built like the species for shock and awe purposes, and the human reaper would've been built a squid-like shell to use for space travel. Maybe if they land and rape a planet, they exit the shell and just start ****ing **** up looking like their donor species. We've never seen a reaper LAND, just sort of hover in the atmosphere.

That's my theory anyway...

It would have popped out of Soverign when he split open. Besides the main core of the derelect reaper is not in a mini reaper guy either. it is just the ship.

probably. maybe the human reaper isn't even a traditional reaper. Maybe it has the same collective consciousness thing but it's more of a land weapon. i.e. the collectors would drop it on the Citadel to rape everyone.

Orbital bombardment is so much easier, more reliable, and they have to do it anyway to destroy the ruins of the colony.

[Veritasinpersonam]

A) The human reaper was awesome and

We don't really know anything technical about the procedure of how the Reapers reproduce themselves. They're hyper advanced so all claims to the 'illogic' of the human skeleton bit are dismissed.

They're smarter than you with motivations and tech you can't understand.