10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria13]

Tellervo wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

What do you guys do when you write something embarrassing but you don't realize its embarrassing until its already all over the internet? I think I'm just going to ride it like a mad bull and be all, "Deal with it."

I cringe.

I think you've seen the piece that's making me face palm... as has about half the kmeme, probably, so no takebacks.  It's just so... completely ridiculous.  And it seemed like such a good idea at the time.

Going to just hop on top with my cowboy hat in the air, all, "yee-haw!", I guess.

Can I have link?  Just joking.

Modifié par Maria13, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:20 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Tellervo wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

What do you guys do when you write something embarrassing but you don't realize its embarrassing until its already all over the internet? I think I'm just going to ride it like a mad bull and be all, "Deal with it."

I cringe.

I think you've seen the piece that's making me face palm... as has about half the kmeme, probably, so no takebacks.  It's just so... completely ridiculous.  And it seemed like such a good idea at the time.

Going to just hop on top with my cowboy hat in the air, all, "yee-haw!", I guess.

*laugh* It'll appeal to some people, I'm sure. Didn't the OP like it? Of course, having a piece liked doesn't make it any less ridiculous, but hey...some ideas have to be followed.

(And I enjoyed it for what it was, so I wonder what that makes me... *throws you the cowboy hat*)

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Oh NICE! Same map as on the wiki but the added info is nice. I wish I could find a larger copy of it, some of the city names are so blurry I can barely read them.

You can! Hang on, they provided a link for that too...

Link to High Res map!

Game Informer link (goes to both interactive map and has the high res map link).

Edit: Note that the High Res map has additional roads in Ferelden (West Road and North Road are clearly shown), so it's an updated version I'm guessing.

Edit #2: Although it isn't in the maps I'm going to add this info for interested parties as it was provided by one of the devs in the DA2 forum...

The Silent Plains in Nevarra are where one of the Blights ended, and it's not a desert so much as (permanently?) blighted ground.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:33 .

[Tellervo]

Derp.

Modifié par Tellervo, 21 juillet 2010 - 07:39 .

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, the Wardens wouldn't have any horses since any horses at Ostagar would have died there or run off and the only place you could really get horses until the Landsmeet would be Redcliffe which had just suffered a zombie apocalypse so perhaps that's what happened to Eamon's horses.

I'd rather imagine the player could get horses just like anyone else in Ferelden -- buying them from someone willing to sell for decent enough amount of money. If the horses aren't rare in Ferelden then it makes absolutely no sense to do without them until the Landsmeet when one is forced to travel all over the country and time is of essence. it's not like the Warden is perpetually broken after all and i seriously doubt whole country keeps their horses in stables in the capital. Supposedly the Bannorn is quite densely populated, so it should be possible to get some horses around there as soon as after leaving the Lothering.

It also feels rather silly to invent elaborate schemes to explain why there isn't horses in Ferelden when they most likely are there and are pretty common. Just because the game doesn't show them isn't exactly good reason -- i mean, the game only ever shows kids with single hairstyle and nothing beyond Ferelden too, but no one is going to include these technical limitations as part of their story too, no?

Modifié par tmp7704, 21 juillet 2010 - 12:08 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

tmp7704: But there are NPCs who imply through their dialogue that Ferelden either doesn't have horses, or that horses aren't used for riding, so the game itself seems to try and explain away their absence!



Besides, inventing schemes is fun.



As to the party itself not having horses...I can think of reasons. Good horses are expensive, you'd need to buy tackle and feed for them, you'd need to get EXTRA every time annother person joined the group, and then riding would have to be at a pace where Bodahn, Sandal and Dog could keep up (not to mention the army representatives). People would have to learn how to ride them and (maybe) not be scared of them. If they are susceptible to taint (as other animals are) there could be other problems.

[tmp7704]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

As to the party itself not having horses...I can think of reasons. Good horses are expensive, you'd need to buy tackle and feed for them, you'd need to get EXTRA every time annother person joined the group, and then riding would have to be at a pace where Bodahn, Sandal and Dog could keep up (not to mention the army representatives). People would have to learn how to ride them and (maybe) not be scared of them. If they are susceptible to taint (as other animals are) there could be other problems.

But does any of these reasons make enough sense to say "oh okay, let's dilly-dally on foot everywhere while the Blight out there is spreading, we can take 2-3-4 times as long to get our treaties done, the Archdemon will surely wait and we wouldn't be saving anyone from a needless death by doing it significantly faster"?

(and if dwarf scavengers or army representatives can't keep up that's their own problem. It's not like having them permanently stuck in your camp is crucial to the effort)

[Corker]

I heard somewhere, once, that the main advantage of horses is not speed, it's not having to walk yourself. Unless you're the pony express with fresh mounts ready for you, you don't ask them to jog or run as a matter of course. You walk them. And they *do* walk a bit faster than humans, but not remarkably so.

But I can't source that, so a grain of salt and all. It tallies with my (limited) experience riding but I'm open to being wrong on this.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Shale won't be able to ride either.

Speed is good, but there's the issue of practicality. If you can't afford horses and equipment or if the animals are simply unavailable then it makes more sense to not have them rather than for them to magically appear, complete with equipment. I don't know about you, but after the Ostagar massacre I wasn't exactly rolling in gold.

What we really needed was brontos from Orzammar. The entire party riding brontos. That would have freakin' rocked.

Edit: I agree with you, Corker. Fatigue prevention method, I guess?

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:07 .

[Maria13]

tmp7704 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

As to the party itself not having horses...I can think of reasons. Good horses are expensive, you'd need to buy tackle and feed for them, you'd need to get EXTRA every time annother person joined the group, and then riding would have to be at a pace where Bodahn, Sandal and Dog could keep up (not to mention the army representatives). People would have to learn how to ride them and (maybe) not be scared of them. If they are susceptible to taint (as other animals are) there could be other problems.

But does any of these reasons make enough sense to say "oh okay, let's dilly-dally on foot everywhere while the Blight out there is spreading, we can take 2-3-4 times as long to get our treaties done, the Archdemon will surely wait and we wouldn't be saving anyone from a needless death by doing it significantly faster"?

(and if dwarf scavengers or army representatives can't keep up that's their own problem. It's not like having them permanently stuck in your camp is crucial to the effort)

There have been horseless cultures, you know, and quite advanced ones, Aztecs, Incas spring to mind.  So yes, there have been civilizations where people have walked to get anywhere (and roads were pretty good as a result).

[soignee]

Corker wrote...

I heard somewhere, once, that the main advantage of horses is not speed, it's not having to walk yourself. Unless you're the pony express with fresh mounts ready for you, you don't ask them to jog or run as a matter of course. You walk them. And they *do* walk a bit faster than humans, but not remarkably so.
But I can't source that, so a grain of salt and all. It tallies with my (limited) experience riding but I'm open to being wrong on this.

To a point, yeah. You have to think of a horse's stamina, especially if you're in plate. But they do go slightly faster then a human, and you can pace a few gallops in here and there.

I am not writing DDW at the moment as I appear to be drawing a farcical comic instead, and my brain can't cope with writing.. It's a lot easier for me to do as I can switch my mind off Too much IRL drama and stuff dumped in my lap at the moment, it all sucks.

Front cover (which I may redo, as it's nothing like the pages.)
Page 1.
Page 2 is in progress.

Do comics count as fanfic? Hrrrm.

Modifié par soignee, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:14 .

[tmp7704]

Corker wrote...

I heard somewhere, once, that the main advantage of horses is not speed, it's not having to walk yourself. Unless you're the pony express with fresh mounts ready for you, you don't ask them to jog or run as a matter of course. You walk them. And they *do* walk a bit faster than humans, but not remarkably so.
But I can't source that, so a grain of salt and all. It tallies with my (limited) experience riding but I'm open to being wrong on this.

There's some info on the horse speed in that distances discussion linked a bit earlier. The walk speed is similar to one of a human but i'd imagine the extra advantage is actually having option to move faster when necessary -- yes, a horse isn't going able to run for very long with the higher speed but it can cover the walk distance in less time, leaving both some time for the rider to do something other than walking and some time for itself to rest afterwards.

As far as availability and costs go... it's not like stealing them or taking by force at sword point isn't also a possibility. When a player can be a thief to begin with and/or takes seriously the "by all means necessary" motto.

[tmp7704]

Maria13 wrote...

There have been horseless cultures, you know, and quite advanced ones, Aztecs, Incas spring to mind.  So yes, there have been civilizations where people have walked to get anywhere (and roads were pretty good as a result).

Sure, but isn't that because they didn't have access to horses to begin with? Which is quite different from having one and choosing not to utilize it.

[nos_astra]

I prefer to think there are horses in Ferelden. They may be expensive and not affordable for a group of 8 people without a regular income, so no surprise you're walking in the game - most of the time. Like tmp said, for some oscassions it would be possible to borrow or steal a horse.  And who's carrying the tons of equipment anyway?

There is other game mechanical nonsense I would ignore in my story. We had long discussions about those things in the campaign forum and the combat thread, so I decided to ignore them: no miracle literacy, no magical healing for everyone, no full plate armour, no 24-h-armour, horses sometimes available, no one is near immortal (as in not all companions survived the Blight and people are aware that injuries may be beyond what a poultice, potion or mage could heal).

To be honest, some stuff kills immersion in a story even if it's simply adopted from the game. Every time Alistair, Sten and Oghren are forced to travel in full plate I don't want to imagine how they answer to nature's call. (Maybe like knights in full plate did in reality? I read that plate armour needed to be cleaned after the battle ... and not only from the outside. ^^)

Edit: Corrected the gibberish my mobile produced.

Modifié par klarabella, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:46 .

[maxernst]

The biggest advantage of horses is that you can bring a lot more stuff with you (even drag a cart along behind if you're travelling on a road) and still move at a fair clip. As far as cultures without them...like tmp7704, I'm not aware of any that simply chose not to use them...although I don't suppose they'd have been much use in Polynesia. Generally speaking, if people had access to large beasts of burden, they made use of them...llamas in South America, camels in some parts of Eurasia and North Africa. The only exception I can think of is sub-saharan Africa, but I've seen it argued that zebras and the large animals of the African savannahs do not have a personality suitable for domestication.



It's also argued that the reason that the Aztecs never made use of the wheel was their lack of horses.

[SurelyForth]

Maria13 wrote...

There have been horseless cultures, you know, and quite advanced ones, Aztecs, Incas spring to mind.  So yes, there have been civilizations where people have walked to get anywhere (and roads were pretty good as a result).

Right, but we know from the books and Codices* that Ferelden isn't a horseless culture. Even Loghain could ride before he joined the rebellion, and he was hardly a nobleman.

I chalked it up to game limitations only and any comments made a nod to that.

*Bann Alfstanna's family gifts a horse to every new king of Ferelden, and has done so for several generations, possibly since Calenhad.

[Sarah1281]

I know Zevran's romance dialogue contains a reference to you wanting a horse and I think someone said something about Leliana talking about the lack of horses as well. For whatever reason, you don't have a horse. I think the nobleman would have them but when do you see nobleman? Ostagar? The horses died or fled. Redcliffe? If they're kept up anywhere near the castle then Connor's little army got to them. That's really not inventing elaborate excuses, I don't think. The Circle wouldn't have horses, the Dalish have halla instead they wouldn't be willing to sell you, Orzammar has bronto. Unless you think that you, a fugitive, manage to get on good enough terms with a member of the nobility in order to buy a horse from then and yet have this never come up again even when trying to find allies for the Landsmeet and are going to assume that you met this myseterious nobleman after you get dialogue noting your lack of a horse, you simply don't have one and some sort of reason for this would be nice.

[Corker]

You know... I think someone said it above, but taint sensitivity makes a nice reason for the Warden's horselessness. Particularly since horses are often portrayed as magically sensitive in fantasy fiction (ears pricking, snorting, stomping, even shieing when magic is nearby) and this is often an advantage for the hero, it tickles my fancy to turn this quality into a disadvantage. Horses bolt and run at the first whiff of taint, perhaps, and will keep running until they're clear of it or they're dead.

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think the nobleman would have them but when do you see nobleman? Ostagar? The horses died or fled. Redcliffe? If they're kept up anywhere near the castle then Connor's little army got to them. That's really not inventing elaborate excuses, I don't think.

As mentioned before, the Bannorn is just north of Lothering and spreads across half of the country; it's a jumble of minor lords, banns and freeholders, and the "backbone of Ferelden in terms of both agriculture and population". I'd imagine it's not too hard to find some horses there. Unless they're exceedingly rare but i don't think it's the case -- exceedinly rare animals tend to get used as symbol of status rather than for mundane tasks like pulling carts (something any ox can do and we do get to see these)

[tmp7704]

Corker wrote...

You know... I think someone said it above, but taint sensitivity makes a nice reason for the Warden's horselessness. Particularly since horses are often portrayed as magically sensitive in fantasy fiction (ears pricking, snorting, stomping, even shieing when magic is nearby) and this is often an advantage for the hero, it tickles my fancy to turn this quality into a disadvantage. Horses bolt and run at the first whiff of taint, perhaps, and will keep running until they're clear of it or they're dead.

Since Wardens are also supposed to be sensitive to the taint, wouldn't they be able to sense it as early as the horses (or earlier) and dismount/secure the animals?

[ladyames]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Now we just need blighted horses so the darkspawn can form their own cavalry.

I've got a vision of the horses from .. what was it, Sleepy Hollow?  (starring Johnny Depp as Ichabod Crane)  All undead, ghostly like and just plain creeeeepy!

[ladyames]

On the other hand, why worry about having horses? It they had them in game, we wouldn't get to play as long ...?!



[crawling off to corner to drown self in caffeine ... sorry!]

[DragonRacer13]

tmp7704 wrote...

Since Wardens are also supposed to be sensitive to the taint, wouldn't they be able to sense it as early as the horses (or earlier) and dismount/secure the animals?

But since the Wardens have taint inside themselves, the horses would freak out in the presence of Wardens, too... I think that's the theory corker was going for (one I think I shall be stealing for my own nefarious purposes). Annnnd explains the whole Wardens riding griffons thing from back in the day (well, other than the fact that something that flies will cover more distance than something that gallops).

[tmp7704]

DragonRacer13 wrote...

But since the Wardens have taint inside themselves, the horses would freak out in the presence of Wardens, too... I think that's the theory corker was going for (one I think I shall be stealing for my own nefarious purposes). Annnnd explains the whole Wardens riding griffons thing from back in the day (well, other than the fact that something that flies will cover more distance than something that gallops).

On the other hand and on second thought, the fact Ferelden army was supposed to charge the darkspawn on horses (if it wasn't for technological shortcomings) more than suggests horses don't care about the taint much...

[Sarah1281]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think the nobleman would have them but when do you see nobleman? Ostagar? The horses died or fled. Redcliffe? If they're kept up anywhere near the castle then Connor's little army got to them. That's really not inventing elaborate excuses, I don't think.

As mentioned before, the Bannorn is just north of Lothering and spreads across half of the country; it's a jumble of minor lords, banns and freeholders, and the "backbone of Ferelden in terms of both agriculture and population". I'd imagine it's not too hard to find some horses there. Unless they're exceedingly rare but i don't think it's the case -- exceedinly rare animals tend to get used as symbol of status rather than for mundane tasks like pulling carts (something any ox can do and we do get to see these)

And if you'll notice the horses aren't performing mundane tasks. In fact, that bit about Alfstanna's family always giving a horse to the Ferelden monarch makes it sound quite a bit like a status symbol.