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[maxernst]

I think it's natural, because the game just makes the Alistair romance have more impact on the play than any others--it intensifies the Landsmeet and Dark Ritual decisions so much. I guess the Morrigan romance might affect whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, but I would think that a PC that romances Morrigan would probably be more inclined to do it anyway. The Leliana/Zevran romances don't really impact the game in the same way.

[Sarah1281]

maxernst wrote...

I think it's natural, because the game just makes the Alistair romance have more impact on the play than any others--it intensifies the Landsmeet and Dark Ritual decisions so much. I guess the Morrigan romance might affect whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, but I would think that a PC that romances Morrigan would probably be more inclined to do it anyway. The Leliana/Zevran romances don't really impact the game in the same way.

That causes the problem of lack of variety in fanfics if, like, 90% of them revolve around the Alistair romance. I know I get sick of things I see over and over again (no matter what that may be or what fandom) and so I really love finding stories that have nothing to do with past/present/future Warden/Alistair. Nothing against the pairing or those that write it, I just get overwhelmed.

[okiness]

It's both a gift and a curse. It leaves room for good material and impacting stories but it's done so much it's hard to see anything original nowadays

[LupusYondergirl]

I admit, I very rarely read HNF/Alistair pairings. I don't know if it's because you can end up queen, but that match seems to be the most prone to Mary Sue-ism and princess fantasies. It's a bias on my part, I admit it, since there are a few I follow and those are very good, so I know not all of them are like that. I'm sure I'm missing out on other equally good stories as a result. I usually start when I see other writers I like add them to their favorites or I get a recommendation.



I have total mage bias, though.



Although I always find it odd so few people read the DN and DC fics since it seems like most of them are really well written. There are exceptions, but it seems like the dwarf origins attract better writers than most of the other origins.

[okiness]

I rarely read anything. The few HNF/Alistair things I've come across myself never came off very good. I guess I'm just looking for a HNF who is neither I'M A PRETTY PRINCESS PERFECT SUE or I WILL SUFFER FOR THE ONE I LOVE AND FOR FERELDEN!!! Granted the idea can be done well, it's just done too often. I rarely see HNFs who strike me as new or interesting and it's sad because my own HNF is so hard to relate to that I fear writing her. Really, she's a borderline sociopath. I love the idea of bending the tropes. HNF is innocent, noble - bend them into something distant and dystopian. Sarah parodies the idea well with Pollyana Brosca but at it's core, I love the idea of taking someone who's very nature defies the nurture.



On that note, I actually just enjoy stories about other origins more. I'm so used to seeing one thing the other origins let me recall the other things. I do admit though, the Leliana and Zevran paths don't have the same impact as Alistair but boy do they have their own kick when an author puts in the effort.



And aside from some fairy tale wish making on the DN and DC (it happens. I've read it), there are a few very very good gems there. It's easier to find what's worthwhile in an unloved medium, as they say.

[Maria13]

The reason my fics are all Alistair centred is that he is such a superficially simple but deeply complex personality (as well as being a good looking, big, but nerdy guy, but let's put that to one side, shall we?).

In a way, Alistair is also Ferelden. Humble, slightly backward but full of strength, freshness and future potential, teetering on the brink of either destruction, self-destruction or greatness.

Ferelden gave Thedas the Chantry and in its own way overthrew the might of the Trevinter empire. Arising from this, it is also my view that if it had fallen to the Blight so would have the rest of Thedas sooner or later.

Now where was I? That was an excellent white... ah yes, but I have no interest in writing Alistair as the past or in limiting him, in my fic he is the future and pretty promiscuous but forward looking... Well, if you were brought up by dogs, even if they were flying dogs, the only way is forward...

Modifié par Maria13, 07 août 2010 - 08:30 .

[Sarah1281]

And aside from some fairy tale wish making on the DN and DC (it happens. I've read it), there are a few very very good gems there. It's easier to find what's worthwhile in an unloved medium, as they say.

Oh, definitely. I've read every DN story on ff.net and you simply could not do that if with the HN given the sheer magnitude of stories about them. I tend to avoid Cousland stories anyway. And Alistair romances if that's the selling point but if that's just one aspect of an otherwise interesting story then it's okay. I know it has the potential for a lot of angst with the non-HNF (or the non-interested-in-ruling or non-bold-enough-to-name-herself-Queen HNF) but it tends to be the same angst over and over again as there's only so many ways you can be heartbroken about getting dumped in favor of Ferelden, with or without Loghain living.

Lack of originality is something any fandom worth anything faces sooner or later, though.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 06 août 2010 - 09:09 .

[okiness]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And aside from some fairy tale wish making on the DN and DC (it happens. I've read it), there are a few very very good gems there. It's easier to find what's worthwhile in an unloved medium, as they say.

Oh, definitely. I've read every DN story on ff.net and you simply could not do that if with the HN given the sheer magnitude of stories about them. I tend to avoid Cousland stories anyway. And Alistair romances if that's the selling point but if that's just one aspect of an otherwise interesting story then it's okay. I know it has the potential for a lot of angst with the non-HNF (or the non-interested-in-ruling or non-bold-enough-to-name-herself-Queen HNF) but it tends to be the same angst over and over again as there's only so many ways you can be heartbroken about getting dumped in favor of Ferelden, with or without Loghain living.

Lack of originality is something any fandom worth anything faces sooner or later, though.

  Certainly it's a problem in ongoing fandoms, can't tell you how many UlquiHime fans adapted a friend of mine's over used body snatcher theory, or how many ichiruki fanfictions I've read that sound exactly the same. It's a dilemma, for sure. You know though, I like my angst to be atypical. I like the crisis to typically be about ones mind, body, and soul- and then the love interest can be important or maybe they'll help them...but what happened to deep inner crisis that was not solely limited to in game story telling? Was there never an embarassing event at the castle you couldn't live down like Arl Howe embarrassing you and now you remember it like some ferocious annoyance just became a thorn in your side? People let things that are small bother them all the time, but fanfiction seems to forget that. I'm not saying forget the blight, forget morality, forget your family died- by all means make your tragedy focus on this...but always try to observe and do new things. All people are different and feel differently, and I like to obsess over small details so .... Basically I want to read something that I can't read by refreshing the page under the same fanfiction categories. 

   But you know, romance has forever plagued every medium. Bleach is mostly swords and action and people fight over it, sure, but not as hard as the shippers do. Romance is desirable, relatable, and an eventual goal of the majority of human species. We focus on it and...sometimes a little too much. I would just like to see a romance that played out purely by accident as the real adventure unfolded. I'll shut up now. xD

[LupusYondergirl]

okiness wrote...

I rarely read anything. The few HNF/Alistair things I've come across myself never came off very good. I guess I'm just looking for a HNF who is neither I'M A PRETTY PRINCESS PERFECT SUE or I WILL SUFFER FOR THE ONE I LOVE AND FOR FERELDEN!!! Granted the idea can be done well, it's just done too often. I rarely see HNFs who strike me as new or interesting and it's sad because my own HNF is so hard to relate to that I fear writing her. Really, she's a borderline sociopath. I love the idea of bending the tropes. HNF is innocent, noble - bend them into something distant and dystopian. Sarah parodies the idea well with Pollyana Brosca but at it's core, I love the idea of taking someone who's very nature defies the nurture.

I am in 1000000% agreement with you there.

I feel bad sometimes since I write Amell fics and that's almost as overdone as Cousland, but I wanted to do something with the anti-mage/Chantry issues.  I think adding oppressed elf into the mix would just push it well into angst territory and I'm allergic to writing angst and self-pity.
I have fun writing mages, though, since I like to see them as being completely beyond the bounds of normal society.  Creatures who operate on almost pure id half the time and confusion the other half since they have no idea how Ferelden customs and social norms work.
(edited since HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE!)

Modifié par LupusYondergirl, 06 août 2010 - 09:37 .

[SurelyForth]

okiness wrote...

I rarely read anything. The few HNF/Alistair things I've come across myself never came off very good. I guess I'm just looking for a HNF who is neither I'M A PRETTY PRINCESS PERFECT SUE or I WILL SUFFER FOR THE ONE I LOVE AND FOR FERELDEN!!! Granted the idea can be done well, it's just done too often. I rarely see HNFs who strike me as new or interesting and it's sad because my own HNF is so hard to relate to that I fear writing her. Really, she's a borderline sociopath. I love the idea of bending the tropes. HNF is innocent, noble - bend them into something distant and dystopian. Sarah parodies the idea well with Pollyana Brosca but at it's core, I love the idea of taking someone who's very nature defies the nurture.

I'm a total hypocrite (stares at 150k + Cousland/Alistair fic and cries), but I agree. There's a sameness with Couslands that I don't encounter when persuing other origin fics. Very, very few writers have done the pairing (in any permeatation) in a way that feels like it's anything more than just a longer version of the epilogue cards.

But, being someone incredibly new to fanfiction, I'm just assuming that it exists in such quantities because it's easy. Nobles are integral to the plot, there isn't a lot of complicated lore or foreign words or concepts to worry about, and they don't have to worry about fitting into society in any meaningful way. Hell, I chose a HNF for my story because I needed a few very specific things to have occurred and any other origin would have forced me  to explain a lot of things that I just did not want to deal with.

[okiness]

It's good to see people agree, and don't feel bad about falling into convention actually..I think that people who can own up to easier, convention, or etc have really recognized their writing and their ability. It takes a good artist to see their flaws, same for those who write and see the tropes and cliches. Trust me, had I not lost 70,000 words of the fanfic I was writing it would be very cliche and stupid as it was a rough draft and essentially the same Cousland everyone else wrote. It took months to finally made Odelia someone individual in her own right, while still invoking the traits of the other HNF fics- aka, Alistair romance. Then again, I just liked the idea of writing a romance with inherit flaws and things to work on. In fact, the entire fanfiction is a work dedicated to a character who needs WORK man, she has so many issues. And that's what I LIKE, self discovery is so much more important to me than discovery through love or FINDING ONES OTHER HALF or blaah. Oki is a sucker for good OCs, basically.

[Sarah1281]

But, being someone incredibly new to fanfiction, I'm just assuming that it exists in such quantities because it's easy. Nobles are integral to the plot, there isn't a lot of complicated lore or foreign words or concepts to worry about, and they don't have to worry about fitting into society in any meaningful way. Hell, I chose a HNF for my story because I needed a few very specific things to have occurred and any other origin would have forced me  to explain a lot of things that I just did not want to deal with.

That may have something to do with it. I haven't written much about a DE but I know Sandtigress and Addai have had to do quite a bit of research on the subject and I've had to do the same for my DN. If you're writing about a HN all you have to do is master Ferelden which, as the culture you spend most of the game immersed in, is far simpler and leaves you free to drop the cultural displacement and focus on whatever you wrote the story to be about in the first place.

Edit: Damn, whenever I avoid quoting something I someone else posts and I have to go back and get the quote so it makes sense. One of these days I'll just start quoting from the start and save myself the trouble...

Modifié par Sarah1281, 06 août 2010 - 10:18 .

[okiness]

Really? I love the immersion and learning new things...I spend hours on the dragon age wiki making sure every name is correct, every bann is referenced, every power struggle is true- I'd love to write a DE or a DN fic.

[Sarah1281]

okiness wrote...

Really? I love the immersion and learning new things...I spend hours on the dragon age wiki making sure every name is correct, every bann is referenced, every power struggle is true- I'd love to write a DE or a DN fic.

So do I but if someone was intending to write a story about, say, looking for Morrigan post-Blight or falling in love with Alistair and wasn't looking to get all the Ferelden names right in addition to whatever his/her culture was it'd be easier to stick with a HN.

And aren't you already writing a DN one? 

[okiness]

True, you got me there. I guess I'm the biggest buff for small details. There's a reason why I've for 25,000 words for a stinkin ORIGIN....



I thought that right as I pressed submit! And was like- I should edit it. Then I realized you'd mention something and figured I'd just respond, lol!

[Sarah1281]

okiness wrote...

True, you got me there. I guess I'm the biggest buff for small details. There's a reason why I've for 25,000 words for a stinkin ORIGIN....

I thought that right as I pressed submit! And was like- I should edit it. Then I realized you'd mention something and figured I'd just respond, lol!

I managed 25K for my origin, too, but given yours can be done in fifteen minutes while mine takes about an hour I'm really looking forward to seeing exactly how you've managed to expand on it that much.

[okiness]

Yours is a killer long one, you wrote a paragraph for me on how long it was. Mine is like..whimpy. But I refuse to make the fanfiction a simple retelling of on screen events, so I started it earlier in the day and I just explain everything in detail, especially thoughts and history. VIVA LA DETAILS! And then if there aren't enough details I go back and put more in. I ramble in fanfiction like I do on forums, only about the story.

[soignee]

this thread makes me feel guilty about my writer's block. Now weeks have passed since I've updated and... urgh. *rocks quietly in guilt*



Mine is that I know what I want to write, but I can't. Why is that, internets?

[Corker]

okiness wrote...

On that note, I actually just enjoy stories about other origins more. I'm so used to seeing one thing the other origins let me recall the other things. I do admit though, the Leliana and Zevran paths don't have the same impact as Alistair but boy do they have their own kick when an author puts in the effort.
.

On a hunch... because it's hard to break away from the Landsmeet at the climax of the story.

I was beta'ing a chapter of "Dead Duster Walking" (soignee's DC fic) and mentioned that really, the Deep Roads and return to Orzammar was the climax for that character.  soignee agreed, saying that in some ways, credits could roll as the team emerges into the Frostbacks and heads to the Landsmeet.  (Except that everyone wants to know how the thing with the dragon turns out, obvs.)  For that character, the emotional center of the story is in the Deep Roads.  There's also a strong theme about getting pulled back into bad situations, and the main and her LI (Zevran) suit it perfectly.  Are they going to keep pulling each other back into the life they're comfortable with, or are they going to help each other escape? 

Leiliana lends herself to Urn of Sacred Ashes being the heart of the story, but that's just the most obvious answer.

But it's very hard to break from the arc that the game provides.

[okiness]

Corker, you genius, you're right! For the Dalish Elf I created it was hard to do anything for her after Tamlen appeared. She'll never get to go back to her clan and why does she care about the blight other than the doom of people, she only cares for her clan and the other dalish, not the blight. In HN stories, if Alistair is your love interest then the DR or US provide for even MORE drama, suspense, and heart breaking moments because really...Alistair is a very vital character and his role in the last pieces of the game are quite entrancing.

[LupusYondergirl]

That's true. The Circle can easily be the same thing for the mages, the slavery in the alienage for the city elf, but the dalish elf doesn't really get the same kind of personalized quest. Why they didn't have you meet your own clan I'll never understand. It would add a lot more closure for that origin.

[Drake_2009]

Is doing original pieces dead? I'm worried because my fan fic is completely original and just uses the world as a setting and has nothing to do with Alistair, The Warden or anything. The Blight features but only as a back drop for one of the scenes.

[okiness]

How fail is that, by the way? All you can ask is that the Dalish elves get land again, and how many Dalish elves would believe in that? Ashalle even shows up but even then you can't choose to go back. Dwarves can be paragons, nobles can help fergus, but the Dalish get shafted. Thanks guys >:|

[Gilgamesh1138]

Okay I had a **** kitty of a day at work, and I come on to a lovely and lively debate. But that debate makes me wonder if any of you would even try my epic for a little because it has HN and Ali (though he is dead, not dead,yeah you have to read it to understand that part) and Zev, the others and a pack of OCs. Ah well, I have to get my main character back to Orzammar (something is rotten in the state of it) and the Deep Roads which she hates. For the record, I agree with a lot of what you all said. Will bookmark this page, to read and remind me while I continue to write my epic. ROFL! I love the community here, smart, witty, and such good support and help in staying on task. *HUGS*

[jenncgf]

soignee wrote...

this thread makes me feel guilty about my writer's block. Now weeks have passed since I've updated and... urgh. *rocks quietly in guilt*

Mine is that I know what I want to write, but I can't. Why is that, internets?

I've been having that problem.  I toughed out the last chap on my multi-chap fic and then took a break and wrote for your contest. 

Now I'll either go back to my multi-chap or write just one more one-shot and hopefully all will be well.