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[Sarah1281]

Sialater wrote...

How do you end a fic that doesn't seem to actually want to end?

The first fic I ended I just stopped writing and people are still bugging me for an epilogue resolving shipping issues.

Sorry I can't be more help...

[Sarah1281]

Sialater wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

What I want to know is why 'heroic' and 'good' so often translate to someone continuously angsting and on the verge of tears the whole story? Especially if the angsting is completly unnecessary and the Warden's getting herself all worked up over nothing! I'd much rather read about a stronger Warden than one that needs everyone in the party to hold her hand the whole Blight because she's just so sad.

Poor writing.

That's why I'm really wary of any fic that describes that describes the Warden as 'loveable.' It's hardly an indicator it will be this kind of 'good' character but I've yet to come across one of these stories that the reviews didn't declare her 'loveable.' Apparently being loveable and being someone who could believably hold it together long enough to stop the Blight are mutually exclusive for some people.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@Sia - You keep writing until it changes its mind? Or promise it you'll write a sequel.



@Sarah - I'm not sure that good/heroic ARE translated to angst/tears? I can't say I've read more than a small fraction of what's out there, but my guess would be that a lot of people play their good-aligned female Warden, cry over certain game elements, and then are inspired to write something that brims with tragedy and tears.

[okiness]

My apologies then SOLD- (which, I love that, I'm serious) I thought I'd messed up!



I took it upon myself to actually make a speech about it, so if you want to know how I feel in detail http://www.sendspace.com/file/ty stee then listen. But you don't have to! It's just in case anyone wants to know



Sia: I don't know, when your mind shuts up? MINE REFUSES TO LET THERE BE AN ENDING



Mind: You will write the next 30 years of Odelia's life!

Me: B-but there's that one decision I haven't decided for her yet!

Mind: Write both paths, WAHAHAHAHA!



Sarah: Yeah, this. Why so much angst? And on top of that, why no flaws?! WRYYYY I could read anything if they made the PC awesome- that's all I need. Cliches or no, what makes a story is an interesting and heartfelt lead you can tell had a lot of thought put into them

[Sialater]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

@Sia - You keep writing until it changes its mind? Or promise it you'll write a sequel.

@Sarah - I'm not sure that good/heroic ARE translated to angst/tears? I can't say I've read more than a small fraction of what's out there, but my guess would be that a lot of people play their good-aligned female Warden, cry over certain game elements, and then are inspired to write something that brims with tragedy and tears.

I've promised it!

I blame Zevran.



Sarah:  I'm not really sure how to answer you beyond that.  I've hit a nadir of my faith in my talent at the moment so I'm not even sure Moira avoids that particular terrible trope.  (I'm tired and I've had beer and I just revised the Normandy Memorial for one of my ME2 fics.  Angst + beer + fatigue = Sia should stop writing for the night, no matter what the muse wants.)

[Gilgamesh1138]

@Sia, well since mine is going on Chapter 90 and it is not near the end? I am not the one to ask, ROFL!



@Sarah well my character isn't the warm and fuzzy loveable Mary Sue. She has her good traits, and her flaws. She seems to be well received so I can't complain.

[Sarah1281]

I hope I'm not inadvertaetly insulting anyone and I'm certainly not picking out X fic as what's wrong with the DA fandom, I've just come across a lot of stories where the main character is a overly emotionally fragile the entire story and I just want to shake them to stop them from crying after their origin, at Ostargar, at Lothering, at Redcliffe, at the Urn, when Alistair tells them he's Maric's son, at Orzammar, at the Brecilian Forest...yes, bad things happen in the game. If they're not at all resilient and I'm convinced an unhardened Alistair would make a better leader no matter what he says, it's a problem for me.

[Raonar]

Holy smokes, my short post really started a long discussion didn't it?

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I admit, I very rarely read HNF/Alistair pairings. I don't know if it's because you can end up queen, but that match seems to be the most prone to Mary Sue-ism and princess fantasies. It's a bias on my part, I admit it, since there are a few I follow and those are very good, so I know not all of them are like that. I'm sure I'm missing out on other equally good stories as a result. I usually start when I see other writers I like add them to their favorites or I get a recommendation.

I have total mage bias, though.

Although I always find it odd so few people read the DN and DC fics since it seems like most of them are really well written. There are exceptions, but it seems like the dwarf origins attract better writers than most of the other origins.

The fact that that is so obviously meant in general and not something to feel all warm and fuzzy about inside aside, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

okiness wrote...


Oh,
definitely. I've read every DN story on ff.net and you simply could not
do that if with the HN given the sheer magnitude of stories about them.
I tend to avoid Cousland stories anyway. And Alistair romances if
that's the selling point but if that's just one aspect of an otherwise
interesting story then it's okay. I know it has the potential for a lot
of angst with the non-HNF (or the non-interested-in-ruling or
non-bold-enough-to-name-herself-Queen HNF) but it tends to be the same
angst over and over again as there's only so many ways you can be
heartbroken about getting dumped in favor of Ferelden, with or without
Loghain living.

You read EVERY DN story? Even mine? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] What is your alias on FF.net anyway?

BTW,
I just got a "Raonar, you magnificent bastard!"as a review on Chapter 6
(The one where Raonar Aeducan fakes Trian's death and gets himself
framed on purpose to cover it up) and I laughed so hard. That's what
Jaheira tells you, word for word, in Baldur's gate 2 if you romance her
and go after her when she tries to break up with your because of duty
issues.

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I feel bad sometimes since I
write Amell fics and that's almost as overdone as Cousland, but I wanted
to do something with the anti-mage/Chantry issues.  I think adding
oppressed elf into the mix would just push it well into angst territory
and I'm allergic to writing angst and self-pity.
I have fun writing mages, though, since I like to see them as being completely beyond the bounds of normal society.  Creatures
who operate on almost pure id half the time and confusion the other
half since they have no idea how Ferelden customs and social norms work.
(edited since HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE!)

My
fic's main character is a DN and did a bit of reading and is quite
aware of customs and politics. The other wardens (all origins wardens
become Grey Wardens in the story, already did actually), especially Faren Broska,
have problems. Faren is especially troubled because he doesn't know
what forests are and thinks rivers are lava rivers at first, when Duncan
mentions one and he hadn't seen one in his life.

SurelyForth wrote...

I'm a total hypocrite (stares at 150k
+ Cousland/Alistair fic and cries), but I agree. There's a sameness
with Couslands that I don't encounter when persuing other origin fics.
Very, very few writers have done the pairing (in any permeatation) in a
way that feels like it's anything more than just a longer version of the
epilogue cards.

But, being someone incredibly new to fanfiction,
I'm just assuming that it exists in such quantities because it's easy.
Nobles are integral to the plot, there isn't a lot of complicated lore
or foreign words or concepts to worry about, and they don't have to
worry about fitting into society in any meaningful way. Hell, I chose a
HNF for my story because I needed a few very specific things to have
occurred and any other origin would have forced me  to explain a lot of
things that I just did not want to deal with.

I DO have
the HNF-Alistair romance and becoming monarchs in my tale, but it is
just information on the side. The DN is the main character and will have
to somehow make everything work, including their pairing. basically, he'll have to somehow balance out politics and everythin else in order to stop Thedas from gettting screwed up. So... the pairing is... just a means to an end? Lol, that sounds hilarious.

On another note, I thought of asking okiness to read and give an opinion on my nice little (actually HUGE) tale but I won't. You just read whatever really entrances you and I'll be here, sipping tea in the fade with the Spirit of honor and teasing my Alim Surana for hving thought about using his blood magic on attractive women. .

EDIT

Yes, there are typos. So sue me.

Modifié par Raonar, 07 août 2010 - 05:10 .

[Sarah1281]

Raonar wrote...

okiness wrote...


Oh,
definitely. I've read every DN story on ff.net and you simply could not
do that if with the HN given the sheer magnitude of stories about them.
I tend to avoid Cousland stories anyway. And Alistair romances if
that's the selling point but if that's just one aspect of an otherwise
interesting story then it's okay. I know it has the potential for a lot
of angst with the non-HNF (or the non-interested-in-ruling or
non-bold-enough-to-name-herself-Queen HNF) but it tends to be the same
angst over and over again as there's only so many ways you can be
heartbroken about getting dumped in favor of Ferelden, with or without
Loghain living.

You read EVERY DN story? Even mine? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png What is your alias on FF.net anyway?

BTW,
I just got a "Raonar, you magnificent bastard!"as a review on Chapter 6
(The one where Raonar Aeducan fakes Trian's death and gets himself
framed on purpose to cover it up) and I laughed so hard. That's what
Jaheira tells you, word for word, in Baldur's gate 2 if you romance her
and go after her when she tries to break up with your because of duty
issues.

Actually, I was the one who wrote that, not Okiness and, as I think you're aware, I have read your story.

They're really aren't all that many. It currently says there are 59 on ff.net but there are some that don't show up if you do an Aeducan character search (like yours), many that are mine, and some that don't actually list the character.

[okiness]

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THAT but like I said, I'll read anything. Also Sarah said she read all those fics, not me. I have read like....40 DA fics if you count completed reading them, but I've read a ton if we're counting "read 2000 words and shrugged as I exed out" XD

[TanithAeyrs]

@Sia - write the story that wants to be written (I know I'll read it). I love your stories (DAO and ME). I guess I do have a defined end point for mine in my head - some of it will have to go into an epilogue because the story ends before the time that I have in mind for the ending for my characters. I am planning on summing the last little bit up into a short epilogue but leave the years between the ending and the epilogue as a bit of a blank slate (so I can write my sequel without spoiling it).



@ Sarah - I guess I haven't spent the time to read any of the stories where the PC cries all the time - just not my thing. I don't mind the angst (my story seems to have more of it than I really want) but not crying, oh why me angst. Adult, this sucks but I'll get over it angst is okay if it is in character. I think some of it stems from authors spending too much time in their characters head and not enough time showing what the character is doing - I made that mistake my first two chapters and I had to go back and try to fix them. They still aren't right but they are better (I also ruthelessly slashed the adverbs which also helped a lot). FF seems to be a good place to improve writing style and I suspect that many authors have had an experience similar to mine.

[Raonar]

okiness wrote...

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THAT but like I said, I'll read anything. Also Sarah said she read all those fics, not me. I have read like....40 DA fics if you count completed reading them, but I've read a ton if we're counting "read 2000 words and shrugged as I exed out" XD

Sorry, my eyes were blurry and useless it seems.

But if you read 40 , I don't think you actually skipped many. In fact, I'm not sure there ARE many more DN/DC fics than that.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I hope I'm not inadvertaetly insulting anyone and I'm certainly not picking out X fic as what's wrong with the DA fandom, I've just come across a lot of stories where the main character is a overly emotionally fragile the entire story and I just want to shake them to stop them from crying after their origin, at Ostargar, at Lothering, at Redcliffe, at the Urn, when Alistair tells them he's Maric's son, at Orzammar, at the Brecilian Forest...yes, bad things happen in the game. If they're not at all resilient and I'm convinced an unhardened Alistair would make a better leader no matter what he says, it's a problem for me.

There are stories like that? ...ok, yeah, I can believe there are stories like that. It does seem unlikely that a character who cries at the drop of a hat has the mental strength to save the world, or rule a small part of it. Extreme emotional fragility isn't a good survival trait.

Maybe Awakenings counters this with Mhairi telling the PC that she's seen how awesome Wardens are in a fight, but that you are "something else". The PC is just awesome, no matter what.

I've toyed with writing a Blight story from my PC's perspective because, due to the plot of The Hunt, there is a fair amount of angsting and, yes, my girl cries at certain points, but not at *everything*. You don't get an idea of what she was like before the crap hit the fan (Landsmeet). And in her Origin she threw a *massive* temper tantrum when Duncan conscripted her and dragged her away from Highever, but she pretty much got it out of her system before they reached Ostagar. Except for some places where you'd expect an average person with a kind heart to feel moved, she wasn't soggy from one side of Ferelden to the other...a perspective that isn't seen in the fic but is noted in the first chapter. Maybe one day...but I have a hard time thinking of writing a story that's just 'the game' as the main plot. Drabbles, perhaps.

When Zevran isn't using me to write other things, anyway... (Sia knows what I mean >.<).

@okiness - I will check out your link now! Glad to see you back and no apologies necessary, it's all good.

[Sarah1281]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

@ Sarah - I guess I haven't spent the time to read any of the stories where the PC cries all the time - just not my thing. I don't mind the angst (my story seems to have more of it than I really want) but not crying, oh why me angst. Adult, this sucks but I'll get over it angst is okay if it is in character. I think some of it stems from authors spending too much time in their characters head and not enough time showing what the character is doing - I made that mistake my first two chapters and I had to go back and try to fix them. They still aren't right but they are better (I also ruthelessly slashed the adverbs which also helped a lot). FF seems to be a good place to improve writing style and I suspect that many authors have had an experience similar to mine.

Oh, hear you. I joined ff.net mid-September of 2004 which was the beginning of my eighth grade year. I was so excited to post a story that I was my own first reviewer saying something like 'OMG, I CAN'T BELIEVE I ACTUALLY POSTED A STORY!'  

I went through my stories a few years later when I was a lot better at writing and removed all but four of them from before 2007. I'm actually not sure about leaving two of those up, even.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote... 

There are stories like that? ...ok, yeah, I can believe there are stories like that. It does seem unlikely that a character who cries at the drop of a hat has the mental strength to save the world, or rule a small part of it. Extreme emotional fragility isn't a good survival trait.

People keep getting really surprised to hear stories like this exist and I stumble into them all the time. Do I just have the worst luck choosing what to read or something?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 07 août 2010 - 05:27 .

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 People keep getting really surprised to hear stories like this exist and I stumble into them all the time. Do I just have the worst luck choosing what to read or something?

I think it's mroe because you just probably read more stories than the rest of us.

[TanithAeyrs]

Sarah1281 wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...

@ Sarah - I guess I haven't spent the time to read any of the stories where the PC cries all the time - just not my thing. I don't mind the angst (my story seems to have more of it than I really want) but not crying, oh why me angst. Adult, this sucks but I'll get over it angst is okay if it is in character. I think some of it stems from authors spending too much time in their characters head and not enough time showing what the character is doing - I made that mistake my first two chapters and I had to go back and try to fix them. They still aren't right but they are better (I also ruthelessly slashed the adverbs which also helped a lot). FF seems to be a good place to improve writing style and I suspect that many authors have had an experience similar to mine.

Oh, hear you. I joined ff.net mid-September of 2004 which was the beginning of my eighth grade year. I was so excited to post a story that I was my own first reviewer saying something like 'OMG, I CAN'T BELIEVE I ACTUALLY POSTED A STORY!'  

I went through my stories a few years later when I was a lot better at writing and removed all but four of them from before 2007. I'm actually not sure about leaving two of those up, even.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote... 

There are stories like that? ...ok, yeah, I can believe there are stories like that. It does seem unlikely that a character who cries at the drop of a hat has the mental strength to save the world, or rule a small part of it. Extreme emotional fragility isn't a good survival trait.

People keep getting really surprised to hear stories like this exist and I stumble into them all the time. Do I just have the worst luck choosing what to read or something?

I will give you credit for at least posting your stories.  The stuff I wrote in 8th grade is truly cringe-worthy.   I am playing on FF.net partly because THE STORY WON'T GET OUT OF MY HEAD.  And partly to improve my writing so my original stuff will be readable (trying to build a world and story for my characters has occupied me intermittantly for 20+ years.) 

[Raonar]

okiness wrote...

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THAT but like I said, I'll read anything. Also Sarah said she read all those fics, not me. I have read like....40 DA fics if you count completed reading them, but I've read a ton if we're counting "read 2000 words and shrugged as I exed out" XD

I did not imply anything bad. I just think it's unfair, and presumptuous of me, to ASK people to do ANYTHING just for me.

Oh yeah, and that deal about having Tea with the Spirit of Honor is actually what happened to Raonar Aeducan and Alim Surana in the Fade, in my Chapter 11 (NOT a parody mind you, I used that as a leverage to make up for the really sad tale the dwarf was relating).

Yes, Raonar is definitely a sucker for dramatic effect.

In other news, I hope you all got around to seeing THIS.

Modifié par Raonar, 07 août 2010 - 05:38 .

[Sarah1281]

Raonar wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 People keep getting really surprised to hear stories like this exist and I stumble into them all the time. Do I just have the worst luck choosing what to read or something?

I think it's mroe because you just probably read more stories than the rest of us.

That might be true. I read a ton of fanfiction from a ton of different fandoms (example, about twenty minutes ago I just finished reading the 115 chapters posted of the most hilarious and epic Power Rangers fic I've ever encountered called 'Of Love And Bunnies' ) and so I often get sick of clichés other people have never heard of.

TanithAeyrs wrote...

I will give you credit for at least posting your stories.  The stuff I wrote in 8th grade is truly cringe-worthy.   I am playing on FF.net partly because THE STORY WON'T GET OUT OF MY HEAD.  And partly to improve my writing so my original stuff will be readable (trying to build a world and story for my characters has occupied me intermittantly for 20+ years.)  

I'd never even heard of fanfiction until I joined the Computer Club in 8th grade but I'd already thought of fanfic premises but figured I'd just have to keep them in my head forever until a friend of mine showed me the site. I naturally started a rash of stories but I couldn't get computer time very often and it took me nearly two years to finish one 10,000 word story.

I lost interest until high school where I was trapped in the world's dullest math class with some truly stupid people so I just ignored everyone, wrote KotOR one-shots, and got an A. Then nearly two years ago I decided to actually try writing a multi-chapter fic and knew I'd never finish if I didn't have a schedule for myself (a 3K chapter every week) and the rest is history.

[okiness]

Rao: Well then link me!



I deleted all of my 8th grade stuff. Hell my TENTH grade stuff is embarrassing ...Twilight fanfiction /washes away shame

[Raonar]

okiness wrote...

Rao: Well then link me!

I deleted all of my 8th grade stuff. Hell my TENTH grade stuff is embarrassing ...Twilight fanfiction /washes away shame

My sig has the links

But here is the forum topic. Take a look at the Origins Wardens pictures first, just to get some visuals. And I hope my story doesn't end up boring you (It's IS supsense however, so there are a drove of cliffhangers, as Sarah pointed out repeatedly in her reviews).

http://social.biowar...index/2924672/1

EDIT

Make sure you read it on FF.net, I only have a couple of bits on the forums here (yes, this suggestion was totally unnecessary, such is life).


EDIT 2

I just deigned to make a browse search on FF.net and it's TRUE!!! My fanfic doesn't show up when I choose Aeducan as character, even though it is so OBVIOUSLY set up as Aeducan & Brosca. why? WHY???

The horror....

Ah well (eats cookies while Sten isn't looking)


EDIT 3

Modified for singular, since I only have ONE fanfic on FF.net, silly me.

Modifié par Raonar, 07 août 2010 - 06:03 .

[Sarah1281]

Raonar wrote...
I just deigned to make a browse search on FF.net and it's TRUE!!! My fanfics don't show up when I choose Aeducan as character, even though it is so OBVIOUSLY set up as Aeducan & Brosca. why? WHY???

The horror....

Ah well (eats cookies while Sten isn't looking)

I really don't know. It used to, then somewhere around Chapter Six it disappeared. Soignee's DDW is the same way (or was the last time i checked) though none of my stories have ever had that problem. What causes it? I have no idea.

[okiness]

Thanks Rao, I'll check it out tomorrow lol



FF.net is fail. :\\

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Raonar wrote...
I just deigned to make a browse search on FF.net and it's TRUE!!! My fanfics don't show up when I choose Aeducan as character, even though it is so OBVIOUSLY set up as Aeducan & Brosca. why? WHY???

The horror....

Ah well (eats cookies while Sten isn't looking)

I really don't know. It used to, then somewhere around Chapter Six it disappeared. Soignee's DDW is the same way (or was the last time i checked) though none of my stories have ever had that problem. What causes it? I have no idea.

Hmm.... maybe it has something to do with the fact that I changed the rating to M.

EDIT

Greak Oki, take your time. It's long (really long) and some chapers are also long, so don't start on it unless you're sure you have the time and disposition.

Modifié par Raonar, 07 août 2010 - 06:05 .

[TanithAeyrs]

Raonar, thanks for the link to Jenncgf's stuff - it was really enjoyable. I confess I have been avoiding new FF lately due to lack of time, but that was worth the read.



@ Sarah - I was completely unaware of FF until I started to run across some in the old forums before DA:O was released. I didn't pay much attention to it until the Community Creations forum was created on the social network, so I guess I was kind of late to the party. I'm glad I found it though, I'm having a lot of fun writing again and I had almost given it up entirely after my first child was born.

[Raonar]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Raonar, thanks for the link to Jenncgf's stuff - it was really enjoyable. I confess I have been avoiding new FF lately due to lack of time, but that was worth the read.

@ Sarah - I was completely unaware of FF until I started to run across some in the old forums before DA:O was released. I didn't pay much attention to it until the Community Creations forum was created on the social network, so I guess I was kind of late to the party. I'm glad I found it though, I'm having a lot of fun writing again and I had almost given it up entirely after my first child was born.

She has more here.
I do, however, admit that that one is the only story I read by her, and I did it on being prompted to do so by intuition.