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#4451
JHByrne

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

JHB, I'm sorry, but...you don't read fan fiction, you don't write fan fiction, you're no longer talking about fan fiction. I'm all for raising debates on Wardens and darkspawn and whatnot, but this isn't the forum or thread to do it in. There's a big General Discussions with spoilers allowed thread for this kind of stuff. We won't have to worry about getting closed for going off-topic, and you can get a heated discussion on whatever subject you like.

So getting back to fan fiction...

Guys, out of all the DA:O and A characters you've tried to channel and write, who has been the hardest and why? Likewise, who has been your favourite or the one that came most easily?


Okay, this is too rich an opportunity to pass up.  First, I don't write FF?  Hunh.  Wanna free DLC code?  Anyway, when I'm not chumming the sharkets here, I have been working a bit on a module w/ Jackkel.  Writing dialogue isn't hard -- the hard part is actually making actions synchronize together, or allowing multiple responses.  In this case, you have to write on two or three different levels, plot and counterplot.

This isn't the forum for raising uh, 'debates'?  Hunh.  Check the thread title recently?  Seems to ME that I'm actually closer to being 'on point' than you are.

Back to FF:  you insist, I doff my scholar's cowl, and follow suit!

If you read through some of my past postings here, it's all about characterization.  I also deal extensively with broader social/psychological issues.  A braver writer might actually consider, f'rinstance, the psychological underpinnings of GWs, including their ability to form any sort of emotional bond on the level of 'pairing'.  It's actually a serious question -- I realize that most of you have not experienced personal danger, hardship, or profound psychological stresses, but there IS extensive research you can find online about it (ie, stress disorders and relationships in combat veterans). 
I also raised valid questions, for a writer, about the actual toxicity of GW blood -- the analogy to hepatitis, and by extension, AIDS, is painfully obvious.  It's easy to simply shrug and say 'oh, that just makes the romance more beautiful!'  Hunh.  How many people do you know who are dying of hepatitis or AIDS?  It's not a beautiful thing, trust me.  If you want to create romance subplots, I'd say it's a fair question to ask 'what does Leliana really say, when she wakes up some morning with a nasty rash?'
I further touched on GW psycology in my brief foray into 'the whys' of the Calling.  It's easy to say, well, I've been having a lot of bad dreams lately, guess I"ll just check out.  It's a harder, more uncomfortable issue to deal with the issue of favored heros like Duncan coming to the ends of their careers and realizing that they're really not very 'nice' people, despite the public perception of them.  That's what a conscience is all about -- questioning the validity of your own actions.  A self-assured Duncan is rather shallow.  A Duncan who realizes he is conniving, callous, and committed to a possibly pointless cause is another thing... especially since he then has to put on his 'I'm in control' face each morning, before going out recruiting to round up more suckers.
Furthermore, despite my tongue-in-cheek presentation, there is a real writer's issue in the question of DS intelligence.  This was the entire point of 'Awakening', after all.  Did you think the title of that add-on was just a fluke?  It refers to an 'awakening of consciousness'... in DS.  Clearly, the original writers of both DA:O and DA:A wrestled with the very same questions I presented to you. 

Okay, back to simpler fare -- characterizations of familiar characters.  I maintain that the "HOW" is easy, once you have gone through the "WHY" of their personalities.  Bear with me.

Leliana:  a pom-pom girl, all sticky sweet pretense.  If you read some poetry to her, she'll get all gooey.  Give her a puppy.  Tell her she's beautiful.  It's painfully easy.  According to none other than Morrigan, it's all pretense.  Lel is a liar, a bard, who quite literally strives to 'find out what sort of woman a man desires, and then become that woman'.  So, Lel is deeply shallow.  It's a contradiction in terms.  However, Lel has been such a manipulative personality for so long, she has no deep ethical center... ergo, borderline sociopath, but one who dresses it up with 'sweetness'.  If you want to understand Leliana, talk to a HS cheerleader, or a prostitute.  No, I'm not kidding.

Morrigan:  surface nasty, spends a lot of time tormenting Alistair, because of what Alistair represents... a Templar, the hand of authority for a Chantry that really has no idea of its own doctrine contradictions.  Morrigan does not suffer from delusions -- if anything, she suffers from overdose of reality.  She has no ability to love anyone, so makes up for it by being in love with herself.  People are tools to her.  If you figure that out, dialogue choices with her are easy.  I say this not because I 'cheated' and looked at Wikia's dialogue lists, or at the source code... but because Morrigan too represents an archetype of person -- snotty, self-assured, painfully honest, without a shred of conscience. 

Sten:  a lot of people seem to think that Sten is just a one answer sort of guy.  Well, yes and no.  Sten is a soldier.  No time for trivialities, no patience for fools.  Like a combat soldier, the best way to get him to notice you is to either be a threat, or an ally.  If you're a threat, it's kill or be killed.  If you're an ally, you'd better have your sh*t together, so he can rely on you to do your duty as well as he does his.  That's it. 
Some people were mystified why Sten would collect artwork.  This aspect of the character was possibly developed from the original writers reading Miyamoto Musashi's 'Book of Five Rings'.  Those of you with writer's block for Sten can look it up online, breeze through a couple of chapters, and it may inform your channeling.

Zevran:  a psychologically well-adapted sociopath.  Enjoys killing -- says so.  Only later does it come out that the Zev character's addiction to killing and the 'good life' of being a Crow resulted in his first, and perhaps only ethical conflict.  Zev spends a lot of time distracting himself.  To understand him, read Oscar Wilde, or another recounting of narcissism.  To understand him better, talk to a young homosexual pretty-boy in your local coffeeshop.  Then read excerpts from Catcher in the Rye. 

Oghren:  just a drunk who is only good at killing things.  His mentality is strictly working class barfly.  Complex thoughts and philosophies baffle him.  He thought Branka left him because she wanted to take a walk on the wild side, and if she'd told him, 'he coulda made adjustments'.  He has no real idea that a character like Branka would ever have higher ambitions than getting drunk and in a fight each Saturday night.  Oghren feels things deeply, but not for long.  He isn't really a 'thinker', but a 'feeler'.  He's the kind who would be willing to kill you one minute, and your best pal for life a moment (and 3 beers) later.  The danger of Oghren is that because he is so intellectually shallow, his emotions rule, and emotions are slippery.  If you want to understand Oghren better, watch 'the Deadliest Catch', about Alaskan crab fishermen.  Or the series about the loggers, or other working class heroes.

#4452
Miri1984

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If anyone bothers to read that last post condense it for me SOMEWHERE ELSE and I'll ignore it just as I intend to ignore him from now on.

#4453
Sarah1281

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Seriously, if you refuse to believe anything short of someone in-game or in-book saying 'it's a good thing GW sperm isn't toxic' then you're never going to be convinced.



And I strongly disagree with your analysis on Oghren. He's not really convinced that Branka left because he had the wrong parts and he says that only after coming across Hespith. What else was he really supposed to say in that situation? If you get his approval high enough he'll have a conversation with you about how he always said he was the way he was because Branka left but he suspects that Branka left because of the way he was. Oghren sabotages his relationship with Felsi in Awakening because, as you find out if you raise his approval, he can't get over Branka. It's been easily three years at this point. He doesn't ever foresee being able to get over her and doubts he'll ever be able to settle down and have domestic bliss. Oghren is the one to figure out Shale's real feeling on Wilhelm (if you've ever seen the second, third, and fourth restored banter the pair have). Oghren is terrified of screwing up a good thing and being alone again after what happened with Branka that he goes off and sabotages it. Or did you honestly believe that Oghren took Felsi seriously when she suggested, while roleplaying, that he should be a GW because they were hot? Seriously, it's like you never took the time to get to know the character...

#4454
Addai

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@JHByrne:  As I said upthread, the darkspawn taint is not contagious in a Warden.  It's been covered here in the forums and the writers confirm it.  If it were, the Wardens would face more ostracism than just political exile.

So, while as interesting as that aspect of GW romance might sound to you, it's a non-starter.  More relevant is the presence of nightmares, infertility and an early death.

Though, it does put me in mind of a song...  :D

#4455
Firky

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TanithAeyrs wrote...

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I'm really struggling with Shayle right now, she'll be in the next chapter and I haven't tried to write her before. The right balance of sarcasm is easier to do when she is talking to Zevran, but I have a hard time when she addresses anyone else.


I'm guessing you might have done this, but if not, I find looking up dialogue on the wiki useful. http://dragonage.wik.../Shale/Dialogue

Like if I wanted to write Shale talking to Morrigan, there are lots of examples from the game to read first eg.

  • Shale: Would the swamp witch consider explaining the nature of magic to me? I am most curious.
  • Morrigan: Surely there is another who would not be so bothered by your tiresome questions. Perhaps Alistair?
  • Shale: I fear the second Warden has not the knowledge to answer my question.
  • Morrigan: You might ask him anyhow. Certainly whatever he happened to come up with would serve as amusement.
  • Shale: I do not understand. I seek enlightenment, and not amusement.
  • Morrigan: You're apt to get much further seeking amusement, I assure you.
  • Shale: The swamp witch is a most confusing creature. I do not understand it.
  • Morrigan: You're not the first one to say so. The first golem, perhaps.
  • Shale: I will ask the swamp witch later when it is less inclined to make bizarre responses to my queries.
  • Morrigan: You will be waiting for some time, then, I fear.


#4456
DreGregoire

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Guys, out of all the DA:O and A characters you've tried to channel and write, who has been the hardest and why? Likewise, who has been your favourite or the one that came most easily?


I haven't done too much writing of the companions. So far in what little I've written; I've found it not so much difficult as time consuming to try to 'channel' the various companions. That consumption of time is why I'm leaning more towards using unknown characters. However, I've started one about Alistair and his queen and I hope that I don't fail miserably at keeping Alistair true to himself while making him transition from Alistair in game time frame to Alistair of the future. I think Zevran is fun which is why I have him as one of my main characters and again I hope I don't royally screw him up. I like having some of the companions come in on little short visits, It seems much easier to keep them on track if they are only there for a bit.

Of course like I said I haven't written much so maybe at a later date I'll jump in here and say, "omg I just can't seem to channel so and so companion" *winks*

#4457
Miri1984

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Firky, I often load up the utube shorts of the character banters when I'm at a loss with a character - I find hearing their voices really helps sometimes!

#4458
TanithAeyrs

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Firky wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I'm really struggling with Shayle right now, she'll be in the next chapter and I haven't tried to write her before. The right balance of sarcasm is easier to do when she is talking to Zevran, but I have a hard time when she addresses anyone else.


I'm guessing you might have done this, but if not, I find looking up dialogue on the wiki useful. http://dragonage.wik.../Shale/Dialogue

Like if I wanted to write Shale talking to Morrigan, there are lots of examples from the game to read first eg.

  • Shale: Would the swamp witch consider explaining the nature of magic to me? I am most curious.
  • Morrigan: Surely there is another who would not be so bothered by your tiresome questions. Perhaps Alistair?
  • Shale: I fear the second Warden has not the knowledge to answer my question.
  • Morrigan: You might ask him anyhow. Certainly whatever he happened to come up with would serve as amusement.
  • Shale: I do not understand. I seek enlightenment, and not amusement.
  • Morrigan: You're apt to get much further seeking amusement, I assure you.
  • Shale: The swamp witch is a most confusing creature. I do not understand it.
  • Morrigan: You're not the first one to say so. The first golem, perhaps.
  • Shale: I will ask the swamp witch later when it is less inclined to make bizarre responses to my queries.
  • Morrigan: You will be waiting for some time, then, I fear.

Great example.  I've even gone through some of the restored banters and just for kicks I took Shale with me to the Guardian this playthrough - some interesting insights.  I think my problem comes from trying to write Shayle the dwarf instead of Shale the golem.   My fic takes place some years after the blight and I have allowed Shale to become a dwarf again (through magical means of course).  I'm still trying to decide how her interactions will have changed, also she has spent the last several years in Wynne's company so I think that would have influenced her as well.  Shale and Zevran have some of the best banters in the game in my opinion so I'm building on some of the things they talked about.

#4459
JHByrne

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Firky wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I'm really struggling with Shayle right now, she'll be in the next chapter and I haven't tried to write her before. The right balance of sarcasm is easier to do when she is talking to Zevran, but I have a hard time when she addresses anyone else.


I'm guessing you might have done this, but if not, I find looking up dialogue on the wiki useful. http://dragonage.wik.../Shale/Dialogue

Like if I wanted to write Shale talking to Morrigan, there are lots of examples from the game to read first eg.

  • Shale: Would the swamp witch consider explaining the nature of magic to me? I am most curious.
  • Morrigan: Surely there is another who would not be so bothered by your tiresome questions. Perhaps Alistair?
  • Shale: I fear the second Warden has not the knowledge to answer my question.
  • Morrigan: You might ask him anyhow. Certainly whatever he happened to come up with would serve as amusement.
  • Shale: I do not understand. I seek enlightenment, and not amusement.
  • Morrigan: You're apt to get much further seeking amusement, I assure you.
  • Shale: The swamp witch is a most confusing creature. I do not understand it.
  • Morrigan: You're not the first one to say so. The first golem, perhaps.
  • Shale: I will ask the swamp witch later when it is less inclined to make bizarre responses to my queries.
  • Morrigan: You will be waiting for some time, then, I fear.

[*]how is this useful to you?  It is the Shale character trying to pump Morrigan for information, and Morrigan fending it off, eg, I'm not interested in you, or your questions.  Morr considers people 'tools'.  Shale is useless to her, so why bother trading tales with it?
[*]Seems to me that a better representation would be the Morr/Shale interplay re:  Shale's claim to know people b/c it spent 30+ years watching them.  Morr's response was that being in the muddy square of some forgotten little village doesn't qualify one as an expert.  Shale is put in it's place, and admits it.
[*]I personally never downloaded the Shale DLC (Stone Prisoner).  The character archetype bored me.  It even bored the designers... the most interesting thing they could come up with for a 'post victory' story was a joke, about sending Shale on a pigeon killing spree.  It's deliberate absurdity.
[*]Without an ability to die, without an ability to age, feel hunger, feel anything more than frustration at being crapped on by pigeons, the character of Shale is stunted.  Shale can't even remember being a human, so basically, it's just a talking rock.  Without an ability to interact on more than a squishing basis, the character of Shale can never develop.  So... personally, I would avoid the character altogether. 

#4460
JHByrne

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Addai67 wrote...

@JHByrne:  As I said upthread, the darkspawn taint is not contagious in a Warden.  It's been covered here in the forums and the writers confirm it.  If it were, the Wardens would face more ostracism than just political exile.

So, while as interesting as that aspect of GW romance might sound to you, it's a non-starter.  More relevant is the presence of nightmares, infertility and an early death.

Though, it does put me in mind of a song...  :D


Well, THAT was entertaining!  How about a bit of Morrisey next?  Boy George?  Queen?  Oh wait... never mind about Queen.  Tainted love and all that.

#4461
Sarah1281

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I personally never downloaded the Shale DLC (Stone Prisoner). The character archetype bored me. It even bored the designers... the most interesting thing they could come up with for a 'post victory' story was a joke, about sending Shale on a pigeon killing spree. It's deliberate absurdity.

[*]Without an ability to die, without an ability to age, feel hunger, feel anything more than frustration at being crapped on by pigeons, the character of Shale is stunted. Shale can't even remember being a human, so basically, it's just a talking rock. Without an ability to interact on more than a squishing basis, the character of Shale can never develop. So... personally, I would avoid the character altogether.

You can hardly judge her if you've never had her in a game. I mean, you didn't even know that she was a dwarf and not a human which should be obvious once you meet Caridin. And what does not aging or being hungry have to do with anything? Of course she can develop as a character. As it happens, she - if her approval is high enough - goes from looking down on all squishy things as being utterly beneath her to realizing that they might be more worthwhile than she thought and even going off with Wynne to become a dwarf again. Given her US epilogue slide, it's safe to say she eventually succeeds.



Why do you keep speaking authoritatively on things you admit you know very little about?

#4462
Shadow of Light Dragon

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@Firky and Miri - Nice ones! :) Referring to the banter and youtube clips is something I do frequently when writing for DA:O (if only because it's easier than loading up the game and finding bits you need...). Voices are also good to hear as it conveys a lot more personality than just the text.



I've heard the Toolset is very useful for the voice-over notes that don't appear in the game, but haven't gotten around to downloading it myself.



By the way, has no one mentioned Dog yet? He's got to be the easiest to write... ;)

#4463
Firky

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TanithAeyrs wrote...
I think my problem comes from trying to write Shayle the dwarf instead of Shale the golem. 


Ah. That sounds pretty cool. That was one of the endings, right? That Shale went with Wynne to find a "cure"?

Also - yeah, listening to voices is a great idea!

And SoL, I have the toolset, but to be honest, I've been trying to avoid messing too much with the real game. I'm strictly loading up mod module only. :) I'd probably toolset a hole in my game otherwise.

#4464
Shadow of Light Dragon

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Firky - Isn't there a way to, say, load up a dialogue and just read through it without saving or anything? I don't mean using it to alter the game, just to access scripts and stuff. :) You could do this with the NWN toolset I think (and Lazarus had a dialogue engine too), so I've just been assuming DA:O's does something similar.



And yes, if Shale's approval is high enough she goes off with Wynne to find a cure. :) I'm now wondering what happens if Wynne isn't in the party though. Anyone know?

#4465
Sarah1281

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I've heard the Toolset is very useful for the voice-over notes that don't appear in the game, but haven't gotten around to downloading it myself.



By the way, has no one mentioned Dog yet? He's got to be the easiest to write... ;)

Yeah, it's really easy to just read the dialogue (and to hear it by clicking 'preview line') without needing to change anything.



I usually end up forgetting about Dog...

#4466
Firky

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Ha ha. Yeah I know you can see the dialogue - and there are little boxes for scripting notes and such. (I'm just making a joke at my expense about how my modding related escapades generally end up....)

Modifié par Firky, 22 août 2010 - 08:10 .


#4467
Shadow of Light Dragon

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@Firky - Yeah, I wouldn't trust me around that thing either. ;D



@Sarah - You can listen to it too? Hm. That I didn't know. Very useful...

#4468
Maria13

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

JHB, I'm sorry, but...you don't read fan fiction, you don't write fan fiction, you're no longer talking about fan fiction. I'm all for raising debates on Wardens and darkspawn and whatnot, but this isn't the forum or thread to do it in. There's a big General Discussions with spoilers allowed thread for this kind of stuff. We won't have to worry about getting closed for going off-topic, and you can get a heated discussion on whatever subject you like.

So getting back to fan fiction...

Guys, out of all the DA:O and A characters you've tried to channel and write, who has been the hardest and why? Likewise, who has been your favourite or the one that came most easily?


Easiest Alistair, Morrigan (surprisingly...)

Most difficult: Zev, Wynn, Teagan (only briefly).

#4469
Maria13

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

@Firky and Miri - Nice ones! :) Referring to the banter and youtube clips is something I do frequently when writing for DA:O (if only because it's easier than loading up the game and finding bits you need...). Voices are also good to hear as it conveys a lot more personality than just the text.

I've heard the Toolset is very useful for the voice-over notes that don't appear in the game, but haven't gotten around to downloading it myself.

By the way, has no one mentioned Dog yet? He's got to be the easiest to write... ;)


I use the wiki a lot and copy paste the dialogue between most of the characters into a file I call FF source and read that sometimes before writing.

I don't forget dog or dogs but they are not speaking characters.

Modifié par Maria13, 22 août 2010 - 08:38 .


#4470
MireliA

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I find the easiest to be Alistair and Teagan, Anders and Leliana (simper and giggle lots and put 'no?' at the end of sentences...).



The worst for me to be Zevran (though once I get into his innuendo mind I can carry on for hours, it just takes time to get there), Morrigan (I make her too evil).



Everyone else falls in betweeen - Shale was one I've just written (the original character not the new and after the blight improved dwarf version) and I really had to look the dialogue up for her. I disagree with a certain someone on her - she has a hell of a lot of depth especially after Caridin dies and he's told her what he knows about her being a dwarf.



As for the dog, well, just get them to woof in agreement or whine and you've got a doggy dialogue.

#4471
FutileSine

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JHByrne wrote...


Okay, this is too rich an opportunity to pass up.; First, I don't write FF?; Hunh.; Wanna free DLC code?; Anyway, when I'm not chumming the sharkets here, I have been working a bit on a module w/ Jackkel; Writing dialogue isn't hard -- the hard part is actually making actions synchronize together, or allowing multiple responses; In this case, you have to write on two or three different levels, plot and counterplot.


Didn't want to include the whole quote, but I'll play along a little with you JH (or as some here may consider, feed the troll ;)). Do you read a lot of fantasy/sci fi in general? It is *really* hard to find a book that really address combat stress or PTSD in its main character, which they should get because just about every book revolves around massive amounts of killing. So if you want us to explain for the entire fantasy community why ptsd isn't addressed, well...go ask more professional writers, hmm?

Regarding that though, getting through combat situations can be made a bit easier if one doesn't see who they are fighting as human. Better yet if they have the belief that what they are doing is good and right. Even more so if they have people supporting them. Throughout most of Dragon age you are fighting things other than human that usually always attack you first, you believe you are saving the world AND you have the support and thanks of many people.

Who are you killing in each of the main areas:
Redcliffe: Undead
Mage Tower: Abominations and Demons
Orzammar: Darkspawn
Brecilian Forest: Werewolves and bears.

Throughout most of the DLC content the creatures you are fighting aren't human either. This would help a lot with the combat stress, I would imagine. When what one is killing is a mindless beast bent on your destruction and the destruction of all you value...that might help a little bit in the killing.

Have you ever read the books, "On Killing" or "On Combat"? In it the author describes how basically 1-2 percent of the population are sociopathic in that they are killing machines, thus they make the best soldiers (think special forces quality) These are the guys the government WANTS fighting on their side. How Duncan recruits most of the origin characters reflect this sociopathic side- they either get recruited after winning a fighting tournament, or they were about to be killed for doing something society disapproves of. Being a GW requires enough strength to kill who needs to be killed, just like being SF or SEAL requires the same. Don't consider GW to be just the average army joe - these guys are an elite force. Consider the Joining to be a ritual which separates those who would be able to hack it from those who don't. It just takes place in one evening, instead of what, the 3 months of SF school? Do you consider the SF community to be a scourge of society like you consider the GW, apparently, to be?

I, for one, do enjoy the points you bring up. However, might I add that sometimes you are too abrasive? Do you believe you know all and consider us all silly people indulging in mindless things, or are you willing to actually listen to what we have to say? Right now you are coming off as the former, which is putting a lot of us writers off...

Lastly - I do remember seeing that at least one member here actually did psychological profiles for their characters in their stories to ensure they get them close to accurate.

For sure lastly - why don't you go over and read some FF? Offer some critiques to the author and all that. Just do it nicely. Don't pull a Morrigan and tell people they are retarded to their face - most people don't like it. :)

Edit: Like I said, I for one don't mind having this conversation, but you may want to consider it creating a new topic...you could prob still post it here, because it revolves around FF generalities, but there are also a lot of people in the other forums (especially those forums which allow spoilers) who might be able to chime in too...but they don't because they don't concern themselves with this lovely forum.

Modifié par FutileSine, 22 août 2010 - 12:06 .


#4472
Sandtigress

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Firky and SoLD, the toolset is awesome for dialogue purposes, and really pretty easy to use for dialogue examination after the intiail "Um...what do I do with this?"

It's an absolutely invaluable tool to me as I'm writing stuff where I need to draw from in-game dialogue, and I also used it to help me figure out Fergus' voice for something. Saves me umpteen hours of gameplay for research purposes, that's for sure! If you guys want a quick run through of how, feel free to PM me or something.

#4473
jenncgf

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For characters that I want to get a handle on, I try to go through whatever information I can on them - dialogue, their expressions, how they interact with other party members, their histories ... basically all the hints/background I can find on them that has been provided to us by the BW writers.



Once I get all that I try to get "inside their head" and try to figure out what is it that makes that character that way - one obvious example is Alistair making jokes every time he feels uncomfortable. Sure he does it, but the more important question is "why?" If I think I have a handle on who the person is inside, then I try to use that perspective to write my characters.



I agree with Sarah that Oghren is not all surface drunk - there's a TON of insecurity there and knowing that his parents both drank a lot speaks a lot to him always thinking he's not good enough. When you've never been good enough and you've learned from an early age that you don't deal with things, you drink to avoid your problems, you'll drive other people away and then drink because you're lonely. So when I've written Oghren's dialogue in my stories, I've tried to use that perspective. Sometimes he'll be serious in my stories because my particular warden is someone who he views as a 'sticks by me even though I'm not good enough - her acceptance gives me worth.' With nearly everybody else, though, he's all inappropriateness and obnoxiousness because he doesn't trust himself and doesn't think he's good enough on his own and he figures he'll just be rejected anyway, so why not push people away in the first place? He may appear to be a drunken buffoon, but if that's all we use it's hard not to make him a caricature.



Anyway, if I feel like I can get inside the person's head then I feel like I can write something that makes sense for that person. I have issues with some characters (Leliana, for example, since I mentioned her before) because I've only ever written or thought about her from an outside perspective, so while I think I understand some parts of who "Leliana" is, I certainly don't have the full picture. If I wrote some dialogue for her right now, then I would most likely only write a caricature.

#4474
maxernst

maxernst
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jenncgf wrote...

Anyway, if I feel like I can get inside the person's head then I feel like I can write something that makes sense for that person. I have issues with some characters (Leliana, for example, since I mentioned her before) because I've only ever written or thought about her from an outside perspective, so while I think I understand some parts of who "Leliana" is, I certainly don't have the full picture. If I wrote some dialogue for her right now, then I would most likely only write a caricature.


I also have trouble writing Leliana (although ironically, she's getting a lot of airtime in my story!)...it's partly not having a firm feel for the way she uses language, but also because I feel like much of what she says and does is an act and I'm not sure what's behind it.  So there's a character in my story called Leliana who has some superficial similarities to the game character, but I don't think I've really captured her. 

#4475
jenncgf

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maxernst wrote...

jenncgf wrote...

Anyway, if I feel like I can get inside the person's head then I feel like I can write something that makes sense for that person. I have issues with some characters (Leliana, for example, since I mentioned her before) because I've only ever written or thought about her from an outside perspective, so while I think I understand some parts of who "Leliana" is, I certainly don't have the full picture. If I wrote some dialogue for her right now, then I would most likely only write a caricature.


I also have trouble writing Leliana (although ironically, she's getting a lot of airtime in my story!)...it's partly not having a firm feel for the way she uses language, but also because I feel like much of what she says and does is an act and I'm not sure what's behind it.  So there's a character in my story called Leliana who has some superficial similarities to the game character, but I don't think I've really captured her. 


Exactly!  That's the problem I've been having!