10369 réponses à ce sujet

[LupusYondergirl]

I think the titles are tied to the specific holdings and you can just appoint someone to the existing title. I'd imagine Loghain got his, in part, because the family who did hold it died off before the occupation ended.

[nos_astra]

@DreGregoire
Thank you for the explanation. I really wondered how this kind of thing was supposed to work but what you say makes sense. It's looks more like traditional feudalism now.

Modifié par klarabella, 27 août 2010 - 05:55 .

[DreGregoire]

klarabella wrote...

@DreGregoire
Thank you for the explanation. I really wondered how this kind of thing was supposed to work but what you say makes sense. It's looks more like traditional feudalism now.

IMO Fereldens are not as civilized as some people believe them to be, there are still feuds over land, especially in the bannorn. Even outside nations are perplexed by the Ferelden way. Heh

[maxernst]

klarabella wrote...

@DreGregoire
Thank you for the explanation. I really wondered how this kind of thing was supposed to work but what you say makes sense. It's looks more like traditional feudalism now.

I'm viewing it as a traditional feudal system.  You can give land for military service and assign someone a title, but once the title is assigned it becomes inheritable, unlike the Duke titles in the Byzantine Empire which were strictly administrative appointments. 

[DreGregoire]

maxernst wrote...I'm viewing it as a traditional feudal system.

IMO, viewing it as such is fine if it works for you; however, in my mind viewing Ferelden in such a way only serves to limit perspective. I like to see Ferelden as an interesting mix of many different back grounds.
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klarabella wrote...  I really wondered how this kind of thing was supposed to work but what you say makes sense. It's looks more like traditional feudalism now.

Here's a nice little quote from the dragon age_playersGuide for the pen and paper game that helped me understand better how Ferelden is:


"It is a wide and barbarous nation, populated by a fiercely proud folk who’ve only just begun to "civilize" within the last few centuries. The Fereldens are a martial people who value loyalty and honor far more than mere material goods. They are the descendants of the Alamarri, a warlike culture of fractious barbarian tribes that lived for battle. The Alamarri followed powerful warlords known as "banns" into near constant struggle with their fellow tribes, as each bann sought to widen his territory and influence. The history of the Alamarri is written with the blood of great champions who rose to immense power and wide dominion, only to have their legacies and tribes torn apart with their deaths." (page 8, Chris Pramas, Dragon Age Players Guide)

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for posting this here but I found the whole guide very useful for writing fanfiction

Modifié par DreGregoire, 27 août 2010 - 07:31 .

[LupusYondergirl]

Also, their father died before the end of the occupation. Eamon would have inherited Redcliffe immediately. Maybe Rainsfaire was unoccupied and Maric granted it to Teagan so the Queen's brother would have his own living?

I don't think we can assume most of the nobles have held their land for generations at the game time, unless we're specifically told that (Howes, Couslands). A lot of the noble lines were wiped out by Orlais, and several families lost their land when Orlais was kicked out because they had become turncoats. (there were at least two families like that in the book) It seems likely there would be a lot of shuffling as a reward for service in the rebellion, or to fill vacant titles, once Ferelden was independent again.

[DreGregoire]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Also, their father died before the end of the occupation. Eamon would have inherited Redcliffe immediately. Maybe Rainsfaire was unoccupied and Maric granted it to Teagan so the Queen's brother would have his own living?
I don't think we can assume most of the nobles have held their land for generations at the game time, unless we're specifically told that (Howes, Couslands). A lot of the noble lines were wiped out by Orlais, and several families lost their land when Orlais was kicked out because they had become turncoats. (there were at least two families like that in the book) It seems likely there would be a lot of shuffling as a reward for service in the rebellion, or to fill vacant titles, once Ferelden was independent again.

And then there is the many loses due to blight. Ferelden is certainly messed up after all it has been through.

[DreGregoire]

Ugh just thinking about the clean up whoever is in charge is going to have to do makes me not want to be King or Queen. LOL. I'll just go over here and deal with the problems of Amarantine and let Alistair deal with all the rest. Wait better yet I'll just disappear one day, never to be found again. Dangit why did I survive the blight again? LOL

[Gilgamesh1138]

Sorry I havent' been on much to support you all...summer is crazy busy? I hope things slow down in the Fall. BLEH!

[Maria13]

Gilgamesh1138 wrote...

Sorry I havent' been on much to support you all...summer is crazy busy? I hope things slow down in the Fall. BLEH!

I missed you...

[Gilgamesh1138]

I have missed you all terribly too! UGH! I am hoping to be on more now. So silly the craziness in August. *HUGS Maria tight*

[Maria13]

Gilgamesh1138 wrote...

I have missed you all terribly too! UGH! I am hoping to be on more now. So silly the craziness in August. *HUGS Maria tight*

Bless you Gilga, I know you do lots of good out there...

Modifié par Maria13, 27 août 2010 - 10:05 .

[Gilgamesh1138]

Aw, well I don't know about that. But I am glad to have had today and Monday off. I hope to be able to pop in and support and chat more! You are so good for my ego, sweet lady.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

*Waves at Gil* Hey tharrr!

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I don't think the Chantry has any views on human/elf relationships, I think it's entirely a societal prejudice.

All I can say on this note is that the elves need permits from the Chantry to marry each other, as well as someone to perform the ceremony. And in one CE ending where Soris marries a human it is considered a 'scandal'. (Although we don't know if she was highborn or common or if the elves or humans or both were scandalised )

[Sarah1281]

I'm sure both groups were. Notably, they didn't seem to have as many problems when they moved to Highever. I guess that's another indicator that life was better for the elves there.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

It might have just been that no one in Highever knew them, but you could well be right. I do remember someone in the CE origin saying life is supposed to be *worse* in Highever, but that's before the Blight and before Fergus becomes Teyrn of course. Plus, rumour and all.

[Tellervo]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

*Waves at Gil* Hey tharrr!

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I don't think the Chantry has any views on human/elf relationships, I think it's entirely a societal prejudice.

All I can say on this note is that the elves need permits from the Chantry to marry each other, as well as someone to perform the ceremony. And in one CE ending where Soris marries a human it is considered a 'scandal'. (Although we don't know if she was highborn or common or if the elves or humans or both were scandalised )

...!  I had completely forgotten this and it's terribly relevant to my fic!  I mean, the level of prejudice there and it being Chantry supported....

[Gilgamesh1138]

@Shadow hi! *waves* Um Iona implies that life is better at Highever, because Bryce Cousland is good to the elves. I think the elven family in the CE origin may have been going on a rumor designed to keep the CEs from leaving and moving to Highever. After all, if all the elves left Denerim, who would do the dirty work for the humans there?

[Sarah1281]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

It might have just been that no one in Highever knew them, but you could well be right. I do remember someone in the CE origin saying life is supposed to be *worse* in Highever, but that's before the Blight and before Fergus becomes Teyrn of course. Plus, rumour and all.

I doubt that it could really be worse. I mean, worst case scenario Bryce and Eleanor completely ignore the Alienage. Vaughan regularly kidnaps, rapes, and occasionally kills the elves in Denerim. Maybe post-Blight if Vaugahn is dead things could eventually get better but there's been a lot of damage done.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 28 août 2010 - 03:36 .

[Gilgamesh1138]

Yeah I caught that inconsistency when I played my CE origin. I have no idea if it was a mistake or a deliberate thing.



@Sarah, true, very true. And Iona in the Cousland origin, if you speak to her in the library mentions that Highever is better to the elves because of Bryce. And Iona is a CE.

[Sandtigress]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

It might have just been that no one in Highever knew them, but you could well be right. I do remember someone in the CE origin saying life is supposed to be *worse* in Highever, but that's before the Blight and before Fergus becomes Teyrn of course. Plus, rumour and all.

Actually, what they say is that the people you have to bribe to get into the alienage in Highever are worse.  I looked it up when I was writing the letters.

There's no word in the CE origin as to whether the alienage itself in Highever is any better or worse than the Denerim alienage.

[Gilgamesh1138]

That begs the question then...is it elves at the alienage you have to bribe to be allowed to move there? Or some human agency? Again, I say it isn't Bryce Cousland. Iona says the elves are treated better at Highever due to him. So, either the elves who are the ones who run the Highever Alienage are taking bribes because they know it is a better place and other elves would want to live there and figure why not get paid for the privilege of allowing others, or...some humans (other than Bryce Cousland) are skimming for the same reason. Hmmm, I wonder which it is? More inclined to say Shems, that Bryce is not aware are doing it. But history is filled with people who take advantage of their own ethnic groups.

[Sandtigress]

The lines in the CE origin are "Moving to a different alienage isn't easy. Travel and bribes cost money" and "Humans are a suspicious lot. I've heard the ones in Highever are worse than here" immediately following.



So I don't know, it sounds like it's more like the human guards who control entrance into the alienage, or people who keep track of who lives there and what not.

[Gilgamesh1138]

And then you have Iona saying it is nicer to live in Highever as the Couslands are good to elves. ROFL I think one group of writers didn't talk to the other group...

[Sandtigress]

No, I don't think there's a contradiction. The Couslands are nice to the elves, the humans in charge of the alienage are not so nice - in fact, they might be tougher precisely because the alienage is "nicer". The humans in charge aren't likely to be the teyrns themselves but some underling in charge of that task, at least I think so.