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[VioletTheirin]

I have the anon reviews blocked and yes, there is a better way of making a point. It all stemmed from a review from another reader...long story...my main point in all of this is while a lot of reviews can be great the more reviews you get the more likely it is that there is going to be a harsh one in there...not saying that people are not entitled to their opinion. Wasn't trying to start an argument, just making a statement.

[mousestalker]

There's harsh good and there's harsh bad. I read what I think is the nasty review you mentioned (Berkon somebody?). The good points to the review is that the reviewer was obviously hooked at some point. He cared enough to read a good portion of your story. He also gave some helpful criticism about what he thought could be improved. On the bad side, he wrote his review poorly. He rambled. He was mean.



On balance, you got to him enough that he navigated his way through fanfiction.net's registration process. That's a good thing, a very good thing.

[VioletTheirin]

I know it takes all kinds of reviews...either way it's a sock to the ego...but just gotta focus on the good, get what you can from the bad and move on.,

[Sarah1281]

VioletTheirin wrote...

I know it takes all kinds of reviews...either way it's a sock to the ego...but just gotta focus on the good, get what you can from the bad and move on.,

Oh, there are all kinds of reviews I can't stand. I even made a list.

Reviews saying 'I don't know anything about your current fandom so write something else', reviews saying 'I like your story a lot but it's not as good as X story', reviews that say 'this chapter isn't as good as previous ones' (for one story, different people said this for virtually every freaking chapter), reviews that ask questions but give no way to respond, reviews from people who don't like the story and review multiple chapters just to keep talking about it or who review several stories to make sure I really get that they don't like my writing style, reviews that say that they like my story but it was nothing great, reviews for one of the last chapters talking about how they hated the story (in which case, why did they read it that far?), and reviews telling me a story didn't work as a humor story when that was essentially the point of it and so it couldn't have worked for anything else but it was still a 'decent story.'

People are, of course, entitled to their opinion and entitled to letting me know their opinion, I suppose, but it's still annoying and I hate getting those kinds of reviews. A lot. It doesn't even matter if they have a point because other people being right when they're being rude or outright insulting doesn't make it any more pleasant to read.

[VioletTheirin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

VioletTheirin wrote...

I know it takes all kinds of reviews...either way it's a sock to the ego...but just gotta focus on the good, get what you can from the bad and move on.,

reviews from people who don't like the story and review multiple chapters just to keep talking about it  

Oh yes...I hate that too...it's like if you don't like it that's fine, to each his own...but why waste all of that time reading and reviewing something that you hate?  Send your review...say you don't like it and then move on...don't torture yourself! 

[mousestalker]

Sarah1281 wrote...

VioletTheirin wrote...

I know it takes all kinds of reviews...either way it's a sock to the ego...but just gotta focus on the good, get what you can from the bad and move on.,

Oh, there are all kinds of reviews I can't stand. I even made a list.

Reviews saying 'I don't know anything about your current fandom so write something else', reviews saying 'I like your story a lot but it's not as good as X story', reviews that say 'this chapter isn't as good as previous ones' (for one story, different people said this for virtually every freaking chapter), reviews that ask questions but give no way to respond, reviews from people who don't like the story and review multiple chapters just to keep talking about it or who review several stories to make sure I really get that they don't like my writing style, reviews that say that they like my story but it was nothing great, reviews for one of the last chapters talking about how they hated the story (in which case, why did they read it that far?), and reviews telling me a story didn't work as a humor story when that was essentially the point of it and so it couldn't have worked for anything else but it was still a 'decent story.'

People are, of course, entitled to their opinion and entitled to letting me know their opinion, I suppose, but it's still annoying and I hate getting those kinds of reviews. A lot. It doesn't even matter if they have a point because other people being right when they're being rude or outright insulting doesn't make it any more pleasant to read.

FWIW, I rather enjoy your style. I especially enjoy your characters. You take them in logical directions that I never would. Which makes them fun to read.

Part of the problem with the whole review process is that I'm not comfortable gushing. I feel like I ought to offer some critique. Which is odd as I like being gushed over. Anyone else feel rather gormless about all of this?

[SurelyForth]

I'm not comfortable gushing either, Mousetalker, nor am I that comfortable offering critiques. This is because I have trouble explaining why things appeal to me and why things feel off to me when I don't like something I feel like I should. So all my reviews end up being "I loved x, y and z for vague and/or simplistic reasons" and it feels like I'm not doing much more than upping a review count.

[Sandtigress]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with upping review counts, it makes people more likely to read something. :-P



Personally, I save my "things I liked" for reviews - I feel like reviews are for the purpose listed above, helping other people know why I'm reading the story and why they maybe should too. And those things are usually the things that an author is doing well.

If I have real critiques, I tend to save them for personal messages and more conversation type venues, like a forum board or PM or something. And I always preface with things that I liked because I want my critiques to come off as helpful suggestions, not me grilling someone for something. Starting with "you need to change this and this and this" just sets you off on the wrong foot. Then again, I only have time to read things by people I know right now, so I can afford to do that.



lol I guess I've been lucky so far, my harshest review was that I put commas in weird places, but it's mostly places where my mental reading inserts pauses in sentence flow. *knocks on wood* Then again, none of my stories are really that long or progressive, so I'm not pushing any borders with my stories...yet.

[Sarah1281]

mousestalker wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

VioletTheirin wrote...

I know it takes all kinds of reviews...either way it's a sock to the ego...but just gotta focus on the good, get what you can from the bad and move on.,

Oh, there are all kinds of reviews I can't stand. I even made a list.

Reviews saying 'I don't know anything about your current fandom so write something else', reviews saying 'I like your story a lot but it's not as good as X story', reviews that say 'this chapter isn't as good as previous ones' (for one story, different people said this for virtually every freaking chapter), reviews that ask questions but give no way to respond, reviews from people who don't like the story and review multiple chapters just to keep talking about it or who review several stories to make sure I really get that they don't like my writing style, reviews that say that they like my story but it was nothing great, reviews for one of the last chapters talking about how they hated the story (in which case, why did they read it that far?), and reviews telling me a story didn't work as a humor story when that was essentially the point of it and so it couldn't have worked for anything else but it was still a 'decent story.'

People are, of course, entitled to their opinion and entitled to letting me know their opinion, I suppose, but it's still annoying and I hate getting those kinds of reviews. A lot. It doesn't even matter if they have a point because other people being right when they're being rude or outright insulting doesn't make it any more pleasant to read.

FWIW, I rather enjoy your style. I especially enjoy your characters. You take them in logical directions that I never would. Which makes them fun to read.

Part of the problem with the whole review process is that I'm not comfortable gushing. I feel like I ought to offer some critique. Which is odd as I like being gushed over. Anyone else feel rather gormless about all of this?

I'm glad you think so.

I do get mostly positive reviews but negative ones tend to stick with me longer.

When I review things, my tactic is to pretty much given my initial impression of something and what jumped out at me so it can get long and/or rambly but people seem to like it (it's more specific than 'great chapter, update soon' at least).

Modifié par Sarah1281, 31 août 2010 - 02:42 .

[TanithAeyrs]

Sandtigress wrote...

Hey, there's nothing wrong with upping review counts, it makes people more likely to read something. :-P

Personally, I save my "things I liked" for reviews - I feel like reviews are for the purpose listed above, helping other people know why I'm reading the story and why they maybe should too. And those things are usually the things that an author is doing well.
If I have real critiques, I tend to save them for personal messages and more conversation type venues, like a forum board or PM or something. And I always preface with things that I liked because I want my critiques to come off as helpful suggestions, not me grilling someone for something. Starting with "you need to change this and this and this" just sets you off on the wrong foot. Then again, I only have time to read things by people I know right now, so I can afford to do that.

lol I guess I've been lucky so far, my harshest review was that I put commas in weird places, but it's mostly places where my mental reading inserts pauses in sentence flow. *knocks on wood* Then again, none of my stories are really that long or progressive, so I'm not pushing any borders with my stories...yet.

You summarized my take on reviewing - if I see something I really like or if a chapter is truly exceptional I review (if I have time to put coherent thoughts together).  If it is a story I am enjoying but nothing particular pops in the chapter then I don't review.   I do like to review when I can - I know how reviews make me feel and I like to let other writers know  they are doing a good job.

If I have a criticism I usually PM the person - I don't like to criticize characters or story line because everyone has their own ideas.  But, chronic misspellings, grammar mistakes (I make a lot myself), and gentle suggestions on decreasing repetative wording I will comment on - but in a PM format.  I make these mistakes myself and I like to know about them so I can fix them.


On that note, a question for discussion.
What writing demons do you struggle with?

My personal writing demons come in the forms of wordiness (I often cut 500-1000 words off my rough draft before I send stuff to my betas), the oft overused words "that" and "had" - more recently I am having trouble with "as" although no one has mentioned it,  -ing verbs (I have to do a specific edit to get rid of them), and the dreaded run on sentences with abused commas.  I also have to work hard not to switch POV too often - I usually write 3rd person omnicient with a slant toward one characters perspective, but sometimes it's hard to stay out of the other characters heads.  Early on I also had a battle with adverbs, but I think I have slain most of them now.

[mousestalker]

TanithAeyrs wrote...



On that note, a question for discussion.
What writing demons do you struggle with?

My personal writing demons come in the forms of wordiness (I often cut 500-1000 words off my rough draft before I send stuff to my betas), the oft overused words "that" and "had" - more recently I am having trouble with "as" although no one has mentioned it,  -ing verbs (I have to do a specific edit to get rid of them), and the dreaded run on sentences with abused commas.  I also have to work hard not to switch POV too often - I usually write 3rd person omnicient with a slant toward one characters perspective, but sometimes it's hard to stay out of the other characters heads.  Early on I also had a battle with adverbs, but I think I have slain most of them now.

Dialog. Definitely dialog. I have great difficulty writing dialog that doesn't feel wooden. Throw in the whole "Then he said" "Then she replied" framing required and it all seems too unrealistic.

[Sarah1281]

Action scenes and description. And romance.

[Corker]

mousestalker wrote...
Part of the problem with the whole review process is that I'm not comfortable gushing. I feel like I ought to offer some critique. Which is odd as I like being gushed over. Anyone else feel rather gormless about all of this?

I'll gush but it takes a lot to get me to do it.  I've gotten the sense that critiques aren't really wanted, so unless they're specifically requested, I try not to leave those, either.  I *am* trying to get into the habit of leaving some sort of "hey, I read your thing and it was fun" comment, because it *is* disheartening to toss something out and watch it disappear into the ether with nary a ripple. 

I admit that I like "love your stuff" comments, but I would so much prefer to geek out with a commenter about narrative structure, stylistic choices, characterization and the like.  Not to argue and get defensive over it, but to explain why I did what I did and what ends I was trying to achieve, then maybe get ideas on different ways to achieve those ends, then maybe ask questions back and... talk craft.  Process really intrigues me.

[Raonar]

Well, to avoid repetitions, I always have thesaurus.com open when I write something.



To avoid switching POVs too often, I try to keep each chapter stuck to one of the characters' POV. For instance, Storm of the Century was from the DC's perspective, while Chapter 15: Rage was from the HNF's.



Of course, I don't use this as a rule. I sometimes take the time to explain multiple POVs, but usually make a point of not expressing the protagonist's POV unless absolutely necessary or if the chapter I'm writing is supposed to be from his own perspective.



I don't think I have issues with descriptions, though I've been told I could do better (yay for polite constructive criticism in reviews) and I haven't been chastised for my dialogues yet. If anything, my writing demon is that I keep thinking of the future,'important' chapters and they sometimes give me writer's block for the ones I'm supposed to write NOW.



sigh

[TanithAeyrs]

Corker wrote...


I admit that I like "love your stuff" comments, but I would so much prefer to geek out with a commenter about narrative structure, stylistic choices, characterization and the like.  Not to argue and get defensive over it, but to explain why I did what I did and what ends I was trying to achieve, then maybe get ideas on different ways to achieve those ends, then maybe ask questions back and... talk craft.  Process really intrigues me.

This, exactly.  Review that just say "good stuff" are great, but specifics - what they like (and don't like) and why - the best.  I would love to talk about style, content, plot mechanics, ect. - I do this with my betas but outside discussion would be so welcome.

[Sandtigress]

mousestalker wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...



On that note, a question for discussion.
What writing demons do you struggle with?

My personal writing demons come in the forms of wordiness (I often cut 500-1000 words off my rough draft before I send stuff to my betas), the oft overused words "that" and "had" - more recently I am having trouble with "as" although no one has mentioned it,  -ing verbs (I have to do a specific edit to get rid of them), and the dreaded run on sentences with abused commas.  I also have to work hard not to switch POV too often - I usually write 3rd person omnicient with a slant toward one characters perspective, but sometimes it's hard to stay out of the other characters heads.  Early on I also had a battle with adverbs, but I think I have slain most of them now.

Dialog. Definitely dialog. I have great difficulty writing dialog that doesn't feel wooden. Throw in the whole "Then he said" "Then she replied" framing required and it all seems too unrealistic.

Me too.  My dialogue always feels so awkward, and I hate it!  I could do exposition all day and inner thought processes and emotion, I love that.  But I can stall for hours/days/months on dialogue bits.  <_<

[TanithAeyrs]

Raonar wrote...

Well, to avoid repetitions, I always have thesaurus.com open when I write something.

To avoid switching POVs too often, I try to keep each chapter stuck to one of the characters' POV. For instance, Storm of the Century was from the DC's perspective, while Chapter 15: Rage was from the HNF's.

Of course, I don't use this as a rule. I sometimes take the time to explain multiple POVs, but usually make a point of not expressing the protagonist's POV unless absolutely necessary or if the chapter I'm writing is supposed to be from his own perspective.

I don't think I have issues with descriptions, though I've been told I could do better (yay for polite constructive criticism in reviews) and I haven't been chastised for my dialogues yet. If anything, my writing demon is that I keep thinking of the future,'important' chapters and they sometimes give me writer's block for the ones I'm supposed to write NOW.

sigh

LOL - yeah, my computer desk contains 2 dictionaries (including a Webster's Unabriged), a 1000 plus page thesaurus, the book "comma sense", and Orson Scott Card's book on characters and viewpoint.  And I use them -all the time.  And I still mess stuff up.

I tend to be a little spare on my descriptions, but it seems to work.  I like to set a scene and then let the dialog fill in the details (although it takes work to create dialog that doesn't sound wooden when using it in this fashion).

And, trust me, the future chapters thing happens to all of us.  I have a couple of chapters much later in my fic that are stuck in my head, I just wish my current chapter was as well defined.

[FutileSine]

 @Dean - Very true words!  I really gotta take that to heart and just enjoy the writing process as a hobby- something I do for myself.  But acknowledgement just. feels. so. good!!!!

@Tanith - My husband has to constantly delete all the "apparently"'s I use in my stories.  Its my favorite word of choice and I use it  ad nauseum...apparently.  

As for writing scenes...angst!!!  Gaaaaah...I got some great ideas for plot twists (I personally think, LoL), and I really want to get to them, but I've realized that what keeps people reading is bonding with characters....so I find myself really challenged with developing my characters in a realistic manner that makes sense to readers (reading the thread on "Undertow" really highlighted to me the importance of this.....)  In fact my next chapter is chock full of character development which is why I haven't posted it yet as I can only write a few paragraphs at a time before writer's block takes over.  ugh.

@Corker - Agreed!!  But that is what I like this thread for- lots of interesting discussions take place on here.  

So glad I found this board as it definitely makes me feel not alone while I try to stay afloat in the crazy seas of the FF universe....:happy:

Modifié par FutileSine, 31 août 2010 - 03:37 .

[TanithAeyrs]

FutileSine wrote...


@Tanith - My husband has to constantly delete all the "apparently"'s I use in my stories.  Its my favorite word of choice and I use it  ad nauseum...apparently.  


So glad I found this board as it definitely makes me feel not alone while I try to stay afloat in the crazy seas of the FF universe....:happy:

ROFL - I over use "apparently" too, I usually catch that one in my edit to remove -ly endings (adverb dump) but "perhaps" tends to slip through.

Agreed about this board -  where else can you discuss the pitfalls of FF writing (or even just writing in general)?

[jenncgf]

My biggest problem is using big words in dialogue.  Because how many people in real life use formal language when speaking?

I end up rewriting my dialogues several times to make sure that, for example, Oghren doesn't suddenly sound like an Oxford scholar. 

[VioletTheirin]

jenncgf wrote...

My biggest problem is using big words in dialogue.  Because how many people in real life use formal language when speaking?

I end up rewriting my dialogues several times to make sure that, for example, Oghren doesn't suddenly sound like an Oxford scholar. 

I don't know, that might be quite entertaining...maybe have Oghren reciting Shakespeare??

[LupusYondergirl]

I'm apparently the odd one. I have no problem with dialogue, and I think mine usually reads as fairly natural (or so I'm told), but my description usually sucks.



And fight scenes. I agonize over them.

[Sarah1281]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I'm apparently the odd one. I have no problem with dialogue, and I think mine usually reads as fairly natural (or so I'm told), but my description usually sucks.

And fight scenes. I agonize over them.

I'm pretty much the same way. Although sometimes I have problems with people telling me that a character sounds like they're too smart (like if Goldanna used the word 'sycophant', for example). I never look words up or use a thesaurus when doing dialogue, it generally is something that I would say and I suppose some of the less bright character probably wouldn't know some of the 'big' words I think fit best.

[jenncgf]

VioletTheirin wrote...

jenncgf wrote...

My biggest problem is using big words in dialogue.  Because how many people in real life use formal language when speaking?

I end up rewriting my dialogues several times to make sure that, for example, Oghren doesn't suddenly sound like an Oxford scholar. 

I don't know, that might be quite entertaining...maybe have Oghren reciting Shakespeare??

Ahahahahah!  "Alas, poor Yorick... I knew him, Horatio.  He was a mean nughumper!":devil:

[TanithAeyrs]

Dialog is tough, tuning word use and sentence structure to a particular character is not something I'm good at. I am much more comfortable writing well educated characters (for example a mage).