10369 réponses à ce sujet

[LupusYondergirl]

I never thought of Oghren as stupid. His dialogue, especially while you're still in the deep roads, doesn't come across they way at all. He's crude, but not dumb.

[TanithAeyrs]

I think the arguement is educated vs less educated characters. Oghren is not dumb, but I wouldn't expect him to have the vocabulary of a mage who has spent years studying in the tower. That's the difficulty I'm having with Zevran - he is obviously very bright and definitely literate, but he would not speak in the same way as Wynne or Anders, or even an educated human noble.

[mousestalker]

Doesn't Zevran have the same problem Sten has? That is, they are not speaking their native tongues. I suspect Zevran was taught Ferelden early, probably by the Crows, as part of his training. He's not speaking in his primary language.

[Raonar]

Hmm. Yes, making people sound educate/uneducated sometimes is hard.



My DN is pretty much a genius anyway, so no problems there, and he sometimes goes into "Full formal mode" and starts using really solemn language. Still,normally, he talks like everyone else, only a lot more and sometimes uses weird constructions.



With Zevran is harder than with others, I think, because he doesn't have any speech quirk. Morrigan uses 'tis and 'twould, Shale uses ''it a lot, Oghren can be managed if you throw in some mentions about nugs and ale and the ****** of his ancestors, Leliana can be caught in character if you have her talk about her hair and tell stories. And Sten usually shuts up and doesn't give any explanations... and he sometimes uses quanri words.



Yes, Zevran is odd because you can't really emulate his accent in writing... I think.

[TanithAeyrs]

Yes. Zev's native tongue is Antivan, but he seems to have a very good command of Ferelden so other than the occasional word order slip or having to think to come up with an obscure word I don't think that is a huge issue for him. Not only do I assume he had early language instruction from the Crows (probably in multiple languages), but he has lived in Ferelden long enough by the time my story starts that the language should be easy for him.

[Maria13]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I'm apparently the odd one. I have no problem with dialogue, and I think mine usually reads as fairly natural (or so I'm told), but my description usually sucks.

And fight scenes. I agonize over them.

I'm like you.  I'm most comfortable with dialogue but poor on description.  I just hope all my characters don't sound the same although I guess there's such a thing as colloquial contamination, ie when one character starts to talk in a certain way others may begin to adopt that too...

[Maria13]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Yes. Zev's native tongue is Antivan, but he seems to have a very good command of Ferelden so other than the occasional word order slip or having to think to come up with an obscure word I don't think that is a huge issue for him. Not only do I assume he had early language instruction from the Crows (probably in multiple languages), but he has lived in Ferelden long enough by the time my story starts that the language should be easy for him.

I see Zev's phrasing of Fereldan as slightly more careful than that of speakers of it as a first language and his grammar as slightly more convoluted which I think is down to Antivan.

[Maria13]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I never thought of Oghren as stupid. His dialogue, especially while you're still in the deep roads, doesn't come across they way at all. He's crude, but not dumb.

No Oghren is not stupid, vulgar, extremely vulgar, but not stupid.  Think of all the creative terms he has for intercourse and masturbation.

[TanithAeyrs]

Maria13 wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Yes. Zev's native tongue is Antivan, but he seems to have a very good command of Ferelden so other than the occasional word order slip or having to think to come up with an obscure word I don't think that is a huge issue for him. Not only do I assume he had early language instruction from the Crows (probably in multiple languages), but he has lived in Ferelden long enough by the time my story starts that the language should be easy for him.

I see Zev's phrasing of Fereldan as slightly more careful than that of speakers of it as a first language and his grammar as slightly more convoluted which I think is down to Antivan.

Verb placement is often an indicator of a non-english speaker.  I'm equating Ferelden with English and Antivan with Spanish (or Italian).  English speakers place the verb near the beginning of the sentence, romance languages near the end.  Zevran's phrasing occasionally reflects this in subtle ways - his usage is correct, but he does tend to use passive voice more often when speaking.

[Addai]

TanithAeyrs wrote...
On that note, a question for discussion.
What writing demons do you struggle with?

I'm not sure.  I guess I like the challenge of variety, so dialogue or action or romance, I like to mix it up.  Probably what bothers me the most is the fact that I'm using borrowed characters.  The first time I take a Gaider character and put words into his or her mouth, I cringe, dither and second-guess everything.  With Alistair and Morrigan I felt like I settled in, and Maric felt pretty natural, but this one reason might keep me from writing the Nathaniel story I'd like to.

I really shouldn't be writing fanfiction at all, I think. 

[jenncgf]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I never thought of Oghren as stupid. His dialogue, especially while you're still in the deep roads, doesn't come across they way at all. He's crude, but not dumb.

Agreed, actually.  Oghren's a lot smarter and more perceptive than his surface brashness lets on.  That being said, he's also not coming from a background that would indicate he uses 3 and 4 syllable words on a regular basis.  Hence my "Oxford scholar" comment, although that was an exaggeration to make my point.  :happy:

[jenncgf]

double post, my bad.

Modifié par jenncgf, 31 août 2010 - 06:47 .

[mousestalker]

My poor tired brain is having spasms right now. This whole Oghren does Shakespeare thing is making my neurons fire spasmodically. Given how horribly he butchers that one joke in Origins, the idea of him attempting Hamlet's soliloquy or Portia's plea from Merchant of Venice is frying my cortex from the inside.



All of you are responsible for this.

[Maria13]

mousestalker wrote...

My poor tired brain is having spasms right now. This whole Oghren does Shakespeare thing is making my neurons fire spasmodically. Given how horribly he butchers that one joke in Origins, the idea of him attempting Hamlet's soliloquy or Portia's plea from Merchant of Venice is frying my cortex from the inside.

All of you are responsible for this.

Yes but he could probably play Falstaff well enough...

[TanithAeyrs]

Maria13 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

My poor tired brain is having spasms right now. This whole Oghren does Shakespeare thing is making my neurons fire spasmodically. Given how horribly he butchers that one joke in Origins, the idea of him attempting Hamlet's soliloquy or Portia's plea from Merchant of Venice is frying my cortex from the inside.

All of you are responsible for this.

Yes but he could probably play Falstaff well enough...

[TanithAeyrs]

Addai67 wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...
On that note, a question for discussion.
What writing demons do you struggle with?

I'm not sure.  I guess I like the challenge of variety, so dialogue or action or romance, I like to mix it up.  Probably what bothers me the most is the fact that I'm using borrowed characters.  The first time I take a Gaider character and put words into his or her mouth, I cringe, dither and second-guess everything.  With Alistair and Morrigan I felt like I settled in, and Maric felt pretty natural, but this one reason might keep me from writing the Nathaniel story I'd like to.

I really shouldn't be writing fanfiction at all, I think. 

Know how you feel.  I've kind of settled in with Zev, but my last chapter had a big chunk on exposition dialog given in a multiple person converstion between my Warden (Aithne), Zev, Wynne, Shale, and Morrigan with interjections by Leliana and Anders.  It was terrible to write.  I am not really comfortable with Wynne, Shale or Morrigan and I'm just starting to get a handle on Leliana and Anders.  Gaider and the other writers would likely cringe if they saw what I've done to them.

Guess I'll keep writing FF though - I can't get the story out of my head and its good practice for my original fic.

[Sarah1281]

Do all of the different nations have different languages? If so, why do dwarves happen to speak Ferelden? Do those in Kal-Sharok also speak Ferelden? It seems a bit...strange. Does Zevran actually mention that he speaks a different language normally like Sten does or is this just an assumption?

[Raonar]

I'm pretty sure all nations have their own language. That Dwarves speak Fereldan is probably a side-effect from having had relations with the nation for so long. After all, dwarves DO have their own tongue (though only a few sayings are actually used in-game).



Tevinter has its own language for sure ('Written in Tevinter' is a line taken straight from the game). So I tend to assume nations do have their own languages.

[TanithAeyrs]

Thedas Languages Thread : no definite answers except for elves and dwarves.  Ladybright has an interesting link to the old forums.  I seem to remember at least one other thread in the old forums on languages in Thedas (there were probably more that that), but the search function in the old forums doesn't seem to be working properly.

There is a reference in the game to a manuscript you find that is "probably written in Antivan" if I remember the phrasing correctly - will try to find it in an old save.

Found it: Manuscript copy:  the title is Antivan or maybe Nevarran. 

This doesn't really give us an answer, does it?

Modifié par TanithAeyrs, 31 août 2010 - 08:40 .

[Maria13]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Thedas Languages Thread : no definite answers except for elves and dwarves.  Ladybright has an interesting link to the old forums.  I seem to remember at least one other thread in the old forums on languages in Thedas (there were probably more that that), but the search function in the old forums doesn't seem to be working properly.

There is a reference in the game to a manuscript you find that is "probably written in Antivan" if I remember the phrasing correctly - will try to find it in an old save.

Found it: Manuscript copy:  the title is Antivan or maybe Nevarran. 

This doesn't really give us an answer, does it?

Res ipsa loquitur... I say. Trevinter is Latin...

[TanithAeyrs]

Quick theory: The Tevinter Imperium once covered all of Thedas (which is a tevinter word according to the collector's edition Prima Guide), consider they spoke Latin. Ferelden is derived from the Alamarri word for "fertile valley" (same source). Elvish and Dwarvish are distinct languages (presumptively Alamarri was too). Perhaps language in the rest of Thedas is gradually evolving from its roots (romance languages from latin) not enough to be unintelligible to non-native speakers, but still with distinct regional differences.



I would think the break-up of the Tevinter Imperium and the Blights would be sufficient cause for a once uniform language to start to diversify.

[Maria13]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Quick theory: The Tevinter Imperium once covered all of Thedas (which is a tevinter word according to the collector's edition Prima Guide), consider they spoke Latin. Ferelden is derived from the Alamarri word for "fertile valley" (same source). Elvish and Dwarvish are distinct languages (presumptively Alamarri was too). Perhaps language in the rest of Thedas is gradually evolving from its roots (romance languages from latin) not enough to be unintelligible to non-native speakers, but still with distinct regional differences.

I would think the break-up of the Tevinter Imperium and the Blights would be sufficient cause for a once uniform language to start to diversify.

With you on this.  Orlesian is French, Antivan Spanish/Italian, there are quite possibly a few other romance like languages/dialects out there.  But even in modern days Spaniards can understand Italians, Portuguese and Catalans, if they speak slowly...

[Sandtigress]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Do all of the different nations have different languages? If so, why do dwarves happen to speak Ferelden? Do those in Kal-Sharok also speak Ferelden? It seems a bit...strange. Does Zevran actually mention that he speaks a different language normally like Sten does or is this just an assumption?

In at least one of his lines, post-coronation, Zev tells you "Bonne niviati, as they say back home...drink well, and be merry. Life is good."  So it does seem like Antiva has it's own language, at least as much as the elves and dwarves do.

[Maria13]

Salut i forca al canut... As they say we're I'm from [partly...].

[TanithAeyrs]

Sandtigress wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Do all of the different nations have different languages? If so, why do dwarves happen to speak Ferelden? Do those in Kal-Sharok also speak Ferelden? It seems a bit...strange. Does Zevran actually mention that he speaks a different language normally like Sten does or is this just an assumption?

In at least one of his lines, post-coronation, Zev tells you "Bonne niviati, as they say back home...drink well, and be merry. Life is good."  So it does seem like Antiva has it's own language, at least as much as the elves and dwarves do.

This could fit with the diverging languages theory - Ferelden would be most distinct because of it's barbarian roots.   Zevran could indeed use Antivan phrases that wouldn't be easily understood even though the languages might be close.