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[Sarah1281]

Maria13 wrote...

In my FF Alistair knows his dad killed Katriel (and despises him for it) so I guess in my universe it was "she was a traitor so we executed her..."

So the book doesn't specify? 

[LupusYondergirl]

@Sarah: that's assuming anyone asked. Did anyone outside their immediate circle know she provided the info? (I can't remember, been a while since I read the books.)



If not, the rest of the army who saw her may have assumed she was a... um, let's say a "camp girl" of some sort. No one is going to ask the king what happened to that prostitute who used to follow him around.

[Sarah1281]

@Maria13: So why would Alistair hate his father for killing Katriel anyway? The only mention of her in your story seems to indicate that he thinks Maric decided to up and kill her one day to impress Loghain. Does he not realize that Katriel was responsible for wiping out half of Maric's army and he just realized that she had gotten close to him so she could get him kidnapped (if not outright killed)? Yes, she changed her mind but Loghain withheld that information from him until Katriel was dead so if you wanted to blame anyone for that (which I don't since I feel her death was necessary and she was hardly an innocent victim) it would be Loghain.

[jackkel dragon]

Everyone who knew Katriel fed Maric info either died or had a hand in killing her. I think her secret's safe.

[Sandtigress]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So, question: People have to know that Katriel existed as she was hanging around Maric for quite some time and gave them the bad information that led to a massacre. Do we know what Loghain and Maric told people about why she was suddenly out of the picture? Do we just assume that they said that she died somewhere?

I'm going with the details about Katriel and what happened to her being very scarce.  For my story, Eamon is actually going to use her existence to try and push Alistair and Kara towards "proper duty" - i.e. Maric married Rowan, not Katriel, even though he professed to love the elven woman.  He'll say he didn't really know what happened to her, but it doesn't matter, Maric knew his duty and it wasn't to what he thought his heart wanted.  He'll say Rowan told him some vague details...maybe in her cups one night and Eamon overhears it, or maybe he just says Rowan told him for impact and he really heard it as a rumor from someone else.  Either way... *wants to hit Eamon*

[jackkel dragon]

Sandtigress wrote...
*wants to hit Eamon*

Who doesn't? He might be worse than Bhelen. (And the game takes his "unpleasant but necessary" to the extreme, forcing you to save him.)

[Sarah1281]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...
*wants to hit Eamon*

Who doesn't? He might be worse than Bhelen. (And the game takes his "unpleasant but necessary" to the extreme, forcing you to save him.)

I like Bhelen.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

In my FF Alistair knows his dad killed Katriel (and despises him for it) so I guess in my universe it was "she was a traitor so we executed her..."

So the book doesn't specify? 

No, the book doesn't specify, but I doubt people wondered too much about what happened to her.  So many people had died between West Hill and Gwaren and she disappeared during the Gwaren attack so most would probably have presumed she died at the usurpers' hands.  I imagine none of the three- Loghain, Rowan or Maric- would have wanted to publicize otherwise.

Though Maric always felt guilty about killing her, I don't see her death as shameful.  Even though she was trying to atone, in the end it was wartime and she was a spy.  A lot of people died because of her.  If he had known the full story, Maric would probably have just sent her away, but as it is, it was still justice.

[LupusYondergirl]

Agreed. I don't think it was Loghain being a bastard or 'tricking' Maric into killing her, it was Loghain knowing there was no way Maric would do the right thing and doing what he could to try and make sure justice was done. Maric would see the woman in front of him apologizing, and not the hundreds dead because of her actions. Given how Ferelden society seems to operate there's really no suitable punishment for what she did other than death.

[Sarah1281]

Or becoming a Grey Warden. Too bad they were still exiled, huh?

[LupusYondergirl]

Indeed!
Hm... I wonder if that's part of why Maric brought them back! 

Modifié par LupusYondergirl, 12 octobre 2010 - 12:20 .

[Miri1984]

You know, I kind of like Bhelen as well. Sure, he sets up his brother and sister (or brother) and claims the throne through illegitimate means, but from what I understand of Orzammar and dwarves in general, that's just par for the course. He's willing to do what has to be done.



I always liked that in the dwarf noble origin you can choose to get all uppity and offended when you realise Bhelen outplayed you, or you can just shrug and acknowledge that truly, he's pretty darn awesome actually.

[LupusYondergirl]

Bhelen is my cannon Warden's pick. Actually, almost all of them. I think anyone pragmatic enough to look past the dark rumors about him would see that the whole 'tradition' thing hasn't been working too well for Orzammar. Even a warden who might not care about what happens to the dwarves should at least realize they're the front lines against darkspawn outside the blight, and keeping them strong is in their best interest as well.

[Miri1984]

Harrowmont is just so WHINY! Whenever I pick him (and I've only done it twice, because I wanted to do the provings) I feel guilty because I'm basically dooming the dusters. And dusters are cool. Sigrun is my best buddy.

[Sarah1281]

Miri1984 wrote...

Harrowmont is just so WHINY! Whenever I pick him (and I've only done it twice, because I wanted to do the provings) I feel guilty because I'm basically dooming the dusters. And dusters are cool. Sigrun is my best buddy.

You know, if you do Bhelen's quest and meet with him, you can still go down to the Provings pre-Jarvia and enter independently. You face a few different opponents and at the end you can devote your win to either yourself or Bhelen.

[LupusYondergirl]

And there's the informal provings. The money sucks but you get a ring that's one of the few "improves blood magic" items in the game.

[Sarah1281]

So I'm practically at Decision Time in my story. My Warden pretty much has to make a certain decision although I'm not really on board with it and am anticipating negative feedback on it already.

[jackkel dragon]

Miri1984 wrote...

I always liked that in the dwarf noble origin you can choose to get all uppity and offended when you realise Bhelen outplayed you, or you can just shrug and acknowledge that truly, he's pretty darn awesome actually.

Best line in the DN origin.

"You have to admit he knows how to play the game."

Bhelen is like evil Machiavelli. Which is cool, as opposed to Harromont:
"Choose me 'cause I don't like Bhelen."

[jackkel dragon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So I'm practically at Decision Time in my story. My Warden pretty much has to make a certain decision although I'm not really on board with it and am anticipating negative feedback on it already.

Hm... no hints? Must be pretty polarizing...

[LupusYondergirl]

Oooh,l I know the decision. I've been curious about how you might deal with that one.

[Merilsell]

My Dalish has chosen Harrowmont, because she disliked Gavorns false play with the forged papers. She couldn't care less which butt lands on the throne in the end but she is growing more and more sick with Harrowmont's attitude ...especially what concerns the duster.

She cannot grasp why the dwarves oppress their own people, just because they are born in the wrong way. They are all dwarves for her after all . It also reminds her way too much on the contemptuous treatment/behavior of humans towards elves, which is never a good thing.

Modifié par Merilsell, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:48 .

[Sarah1281]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Oooh,l I know the decision. I've been curious about how you might deal with that one.

There's just no right answer, is there? I've spent way too much time on that. I picked one, changed my mind, went back to my first idea but for a completely different reason and I probably still won't like how it turns out.

[mousestalker]

WWAD?

Modifié par mousestalker, 12 octobre 2010 - 02:09 .

[LupusYondergirl]

The DN would have the absolute hardest time making a decision, that's for sure. My mage had a very easy time but to her it was very similar to something else she was horrified by in her origin story. A DC, depending on attitude, might have an easier time, since they can perhaps look at the negative impact one decision would have on the casteless in specific. For everyone else I think it's probably dependent on how pragmatic vs. 'good' they are.

[Reika]

I could see a DC choosing Bhelen if only because of the DC's sister being his consort and getting the family raised to noble status due to having a baby boy.

Modifié par Reika, 12 octobre 2010 - 02:15 .