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[soignee]

Yeah the fandom is shrinking now, sadly. Be interested to see what DA2 will be like and how we all react, and if it'll be as vibrant and creative.  (I already think one of the featured companions is pure nutella anyway, so sue me...)

I've noticed also that this fandom can be very boxy and that people clump together in their boxes, more so then, you know, real life. I'll happily cross over into other genres and such and try new things, but fandom is more clique-y, weirdly. "Oh, that has _____ with [character A] and is primarily about ____, not interested." 

Or is that fandom in general? No clue.

With regarding my emo!post previously, despite my HURRAH WRITING words, my creativity has been vacuumed up, which might corallate with the interest shrinkage Mousestalker mentioned. I want to finish DDW though, considering I'm nearly at the last hurdle anyway. I put so much work into it, might as well finish!

[Raonar]

My story went over 230,000 words some time ago and it's only about a fifth finished, if even that much is really done. I am starting to get worried, but my fervor seems to be holding quite well.

[Sarah1281]

I've noticed also that this fandom can be very boxy and that people clump together in their boxes, more so then, you know, real life. I'll happily cross over into other genres and such and try new things, but fandom is more clique-y, weirdly. "Oh, that has _____ with [character A] and is primarily about ____, not interested."



Or is that fandom in general? No clue.

I have no idea. I've never gotten involved with a fandom before DA beyond just writing and reading stories for it. It can certainly be a trying experience sometimes. (I have NEVER managed to ****** people off online quite so much, often, and quickly before I started talking to the Alistair fans)

[mousestalker]

@Sarah, Raonar and Reika- Thanks for answering my earlier question.



People have characters they are attached to. Alistair, Zevran, Leliana and Morrigan all have their defenders.



I was shocked at how protective I am about my canonical Warden and her family. Fictional characters and I was actually getting quite worked up at one point.

[soignee]

I'm very protective of Dagna,oddly, and her enthusiasm for STUFF and THINGS.

[LupusYondergirl]

I like Dagna, I had to leave her out of my story since I couldn't bear to have Maggie just crush her dreams. "You want to go WHERE? You know it really sucks there. People die just trying to escape. I mean, why? Are you nuts??"



As for the cliquishness... I don't know. If there's a story with a character I like I'll usually go out of my way to read it. I read most of the Anders stories (but that isn't many). I generally don't AVOID anything because of the characters. Just... some parings and topics seem to have more than their fair share of < diplomatic >stories that I do not care for < /diplomatic >. HN/Alistair is a big one. Maybe because it's the most common. But... marriage/princess fantasy isn't really my bag and there's a lot of it when those two characters come to the party.

[mousestalker]

I'm not a huge fan of Cousland/Alistair either, but there are some very well done stories of that pairing. What kills any enthusiasm I might have for a story are over wrought histrionics over trivialities. If the PC Warden wants to have a bit of a breakdown over the Origin story or what happened at Ostagar, then that is fine. Not my favourite, but it makes sense. But if she pitches because Alistair didn't suck up enough to her then I'm off to read something else.



The other story killer is the pure Mary Sue Warden.

[Sarah1281]

mousestalker wrote...

The other story killer is the pure Mary Sue Warden.

*glances uncomfortably over Warden list* Yes. Absolutely.

[mousestalker]

Probably the worst way to begin a story (for me) would be "Mary Sue Aedbrosbrisana was that rarity, a half elf/half dwarf. Dwarven royalty as she was, she had learnt the skills of the finest dwarven warriors as well as the most closely guarded magical secrets of the Circle of Magi."

[Sarah1281]

mousestalker wrote...

Probably the worst way to begin a story (for me) would be "Mary Sue Aedbrosbrisana was that rarity, a half elf/half dwarf. Dwarven royalty as she was, she had learnt the skills of the finest dwarven warriors as well as the most closely guarded magical secrets of the Circle of Magi."

Or like this: "Angélique Amell, Circle Mage for all of six hours and Grey Warden for less than half a year, was not very happy and had no problem letting everyone around her know it. "This is such a drag," she complained, sweeping her long golden hair out of her bright violet eyes as she walked along the empty halls. She was very pretty and liked nothing more than to be reminded of it by the less-beautiful people of the world." 

[mousestalker]

Oh dear.

[jackkel dragon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

The other story killer is the pure Mary Sue Warden.

*glances uncomfortably over Warden list* Yes. Absolutely.

Part of why I'm writing about Tayte Cosuland, instead of "Varen Caron" (my Awakening run.) Varen had maxxed cunning and coersion, the best weapons and armor, the best Sword and board abilities, the works. He even convinced Sigrun to hug darkspawn.

And I'm still trying to keep Tayte realistic. She dreadfully wants to just blow everything up, no matter how well she hides it... (note: she's not a mage.)

[Raonar]

It's a bit odd with my own character because he's really really manipulative. And I don't mean that I just said "Protagonist is just so good at manipulation" I mean that what he does has earned him accolades as a magnificent bastard. (reviewers said so . Multiple times)



Granted, he IS an Orzammar noble so that kind of justifies it. I'll have to be careful not to make him look too awesome before the Orzammar part. That will be the really complicated stuff of his life.



The problem is that the game actually does make it possible for the Warden to become a Mary Sue / Gary Stu, or very close.

[soignee]

Raonar wrote...


The problem is that the game actually does make it possible for the Warden to become a Mary Sue / Gary Stu, or very close.

tbh, I'd go as far and say they are.

*everyone wants to sleep with you
*everyone expects you to solve their problems
*even nobility, kings and queens bows to your whims

etc and so forth
<.<

[Miri1984]

Sarah1281 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Probably the worst way to begin a story (for me) would be "Mary Sue Aedbrosbrisana was that rarity, a half elf/half dwarf. Dwarven royalty as she was, she had learnt the skills of the finest dwarven warriors as well as the most closely guarded magical secrets of the Circle of Magi."

Or like this: "Angélique Amell, Circle Mage for all of six hours and Grey Warden for less than half a year, was not very happy and had no problem letting everyone around her know it. "This is such a drag," she complained, sweeping her long golden hair out of her bright violet eyes as she walked along the empty halls. She was very pretty and liked nothing more than to be reminded of it by the less-beautiful people of the world." 

Hah! Sarah this is quite obviously parody, and therefore fantastic . Mind you, I adore Angelique, so I could be biased. [Mugatu]She is so hot right now![Mugatu}

[Miri1984]

Ok, does anyone happen to know *offhand* (and yes I know it's a bit of an unreasonable request) what Irving's skill set is when you send him into the fade to rescue Connor? Fic related...

[Avilia]

@Miri

From memory this seems right.  But someone who's used him recently might have better info

[Miri1984]

Ta Avilia! I tried to find that on the wiki but obviously didn't do a very good search.

[Raonar]

A question to you all here. What do you feel about lady Isolde? Am I too harsh to see her as a selfish, annoying ****?

[Patchwork]

She's plenty selfish, personally I find her killing Connor to be the most cathartic ending to the Redcliffe quest as she admits to her own bad choices and ends the situation herself. But imo it's fear as much as selfishness that drives her. She fears losing her son to the Mages' Tower and never seeing him again, that Connor will become a power hungry mage like her father and the other males of her family, of losing Eamon because he blames her for the magic talent her blood carries.



Even sending Alistair away can be put down more to fear than selfishness.

[Maria13]

I don't like her. But as Ser says above, her motivations are understandable if not praiseworthy. She is extremely insecure and that probably is not entirely her fault.

[soignee]

Raonar wrote...

A question to you all here. What do you feel about lady Isolde? Am I too harsh to see her as a selfish, annoying ****?

I see it from a Mother's POV. When you have a kid, you turn selfish. The entire world is **** and your want to save your child. Basic human reaction to protect the young, really.

[Raonar]

Well, I got to post Chapter 23 of my fiction where the protagonist gets really pissed at Isolde and is really brutal and yells at her for a good while. Some people may start thinking that he's a jerk actually...



Of course, I did immediately add the scene of him going to comfort Connor (and the kid starts crying in his arms... Poor thing.)



I always liked how Connor was totally willing to assume responsibility for that whole mess, and for how he would accept dying to stop it.

[Sarah1281]

I don't really mind Isolde. She can't be the only person who has ever not wanted to send a mage away to a Circle. As it happens, Anders backstory seems to hint that he had this happen to him as well. Just ignoring the problem and hoping it would go away would be really inexcusably irresponsible but Isolde doesn't do that. She attempts to bring in a competent mage and have him tutor her child one-on-one. Other people must have done the same at other points in time and yet we really don't hear all about abominations running loose and killing other people left and right and so I'm inclined to believe that they don't have this problem.



The fact that Connor gets possessed mainly seems to be Jowan's fault. Yes, he wasn't allowed to take his Harrowing because he was suspected of being a blood mage but he turned to blood magic in the first place because he wasn't particularly talented and felt he wasn't up to Circle standards (which may be true). He wasn't a competent instructor to begin with and Isolde really would have been better off going to the mage's collective. Then there's the fact that Jowan left those 'bad books' around for Connor to see that may have played a part in the possession, that we don't even know if he could withstand a possession as he never underwent his Harrowing, and the poisoning. Jowan neglected to instruct Connor on demons at all and possessed Connor has no idea what's happening to him. Even if he didn't recognize the demon at the time he agreed to let it possess him, if he had been aware of demons then he probably would have realized what was happening at some point. The demon doesn't overpower Connor and force itself into him which could have happened even if he were at the Circle. The demon makes a deal with Connor. It would possess him in return for saving Eamon. Why does Eamon need to be saved? Jowan was poisoning him which was his primary reason for being there (and likely affected the quality of limited instruction he gave Connor).



Yes, Isolde ignored the law. Yes, the law is there for a reason. I just can't hold her solely - or even mostly - responsible for Connor getting possessed. The only way she really could have stopped the situation would have been murdering her son (when you go to the Circle and appeal to Irving for help, his initial thought is 'kill the abomination' and she doesn't know of another way and needs a mage to suggest it). I can't join in with the others going 'OMG, why didn't you murder your own son, you selfish ****?'

[Corker]

I think my problem with Isolde is less with her motivation and more with her continuing denial. After a certain point, it no longer matters who summoned the demon or how it took possession of Connor; it matters that it's slaughtering the entire palace staff, animating the corpses and slaughtering the village as well.

Her reluctance or inability to understand what was going on and what her responsibility to her people was is *understandable,* I think, but not *excusable.*