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#6351
Shadow of Light Dragon

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Maria13 wrote...

Multihand convos, I tend to find that where there's more than three or four people they tend to divvy up into smaller subgroups anyway. It's just not possible to have a conversation with a person at the other end of the table unless you get up and walk over to them...


Good point. Unless it's a group pow-wow or Share Time rather than Dinner Time Madness.

Pow-wow = most people tend to wait their turn to speak unless it devolves into an argument.

Dinner Time Madness = you can't follow eleven people at once. The (human) brain simply can't multitask to that capacity. You can catch snatches, you can partake in one or two convos, but you won't hear everything, and like you said people will tend to regroup into subpockets of conversation. That's when the author can say X, Y and Z immediately started talking about last season's shoes, A and B went over an awesome fight from earlier in the day, leaving G, V and J to ask each other why their capital letters weren't sequential like the others in the party.

That left M, N and O, taking the total to eleven. They sat together, M rolling his eyes at some remark he'd overheard from A, and he to the other two, "If this group gets any larger, someone will need to put serious thought into expanding the alphabet..."

#6352
LupusYondergirl

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Merilsell wrote...

soignee wrote...
Aaaaaaaaand so on. It's hard to juggle so many voices and it not sound condescending to the reader, but at the same time not confuse them. I'm still not sure if I need that many people speaking, but it's how it is in my head and I write it so. What do you all think, when is too many people in a scene too many?

I'm still learning, I'm just a fanficcing hack. =/


Same here. I'm currently in the Deep Roads with seven people and I'm really glad when I'm able to focus on only three or four people doing...stuff. But then again I seize a lot of my dialogue for character/relationship development, which means it involves a lot of body language and so on. .I try to reduce the he/she said things to a needed minimum but mostly end up describing it in another way. Sigh. Wordy is my middle name, it seems. 


I really try and avoid having conversations that involve more than three or four people.  And if it's more than that I'll usually have one as a mostly-silent observer.  I just think it's rare for that many people to be involved in a single discussion unless it's, say, a meeting (in which case it isn't really  discussion, per se, it's more a series of short speeches.) 
I honestly can't think of any time I've had an actual conversation with half a dozen people at once- it seems like any group that large will naturally break into smaller subgroups where the conversations might overlap, but it isn't one unified discussion.  Especially since most of my conversations are set either while everyone is walking- and walking that clustered together would just end with someone on their ass, or around the fire- in which case you end up with some people too far away to hear other people, etc. 

Plus, if you have more than two or three you need to start using proper names instead of generic pronouns and it gets a bit clunky.  In something using all game characters you can get away with more since everyone has a clear idea of what they look like, and use physical clues.  IE instead of 'leliana said' to distinguish her from another woman, you can aways use 'she said, tucking a strand of red hair behind her ear,' or 'came the response, her golden eyes flashing in anger' or whatever.  Since we all know Leliana has red hair and Morrigan has gold eyes, that works.  But, the game itself is a visual medium.
I've got a ton of original characters in AOA, though, and probably more than a dozen who might get major time.  And while I know exactly what they all look and sound like and how old they are, I can't expect any reader to remember Tobias is a blonde because I made an oblique reference to it it once like thirty chapters ago.  So, that sort of thing wouldn't really work.

There's also the option of having one character call the other by name in conversation.  Maggie does that a lot.  But it's actually kind of a quirk with her, sort of an exaggerated reaction to how dehumanizing she found it when some of the templars would just call her "mage."  (Although now that I say that, I'm thinking I might have taken out the bit where that got explained...  Oh well.)

#6353
SurelyForth

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I've worked in a enough touchy-feely not for profit organizations (to say nothing of my time spent working in residential life at a university) to have spent a ton of time having actual large group conversations. I love character interaction at that level because it's an easy way to explore interpersonal dynamics with characters who don't get as much attention without getting too far away from the main focus.

But, like Lupus says, it is really hard to do and do it without coming across as clunky or too *words*. I have several groups scenes coming up (and three characters who, when they're on, sound quite similar) and I'm already worried that it's going to be a mess.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 20 octobre 2010 - 12:54 .


#6354
Sialater

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Ew, large group conversations.... Not sure I've ever even attempted one. I usually have a character find something better to do.

#6355
Sarah1281

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Ugh, I just accidentally updated while the stats are down. *facepalm*

#6356
Raonar

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Someone should really clarify exactly what "stats are down" means. Is it that hits aren't going up? or what?


#6357
Sarah1281

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The hits aren't being counted so you have no way of knowing how many people are reading.

#6358
maxernst

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Sialater wrote...

Ew, large group conversations.... Not sure I've ever even attempted one. I usually have a character find something better to do.


You know I thought about doing one in a recent chapter--the protagonist was at a big dinner party with about twenty people.  But I decided that he was mostly bored by the conversation anyway, so I just summarized his reactions to it for the most part, and only wrote a few short sections of the actual dialogue that only involved three or four guests.

#6359
Raonar

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I'm wondering, do any of you lords and ladies know of DA fanfictions that actually explore other types of relationships besides romance? You know, rivalry, family, 'blood brothers', that sort of thing? And I mean in detail, not just hints.

Modifié par Raonar, 20 octobre 2010 - 08:32 .


#6360
Maria13

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Raonar wrote...

I'm wondering, do any of you lords and ladies know of DA fanfictions that actually explore other types of relationships besides romance? You know, rivalry, family, 'blood brothers', that sort of thing? And I mean in detail, not just hints.


I wrote clariana.dreamwidth.org/311.html this this weekend about Alfstanna and Irminric for the kink-meme but it has no sex at the poster's request.

#6361
LupusYondergirl

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It's more common in one-shots, definitely. As for longer fics, off the top of my head I know Prodigal and its sequel Restoration are both fairly long and focus on a father daughter relationship. Miri's The Ties That Bind focuses on the parent/child relationship.



You'll probably find quite a few fics that have a romance still have other sorts of relationships as well. I probably spend just as much time on developing the close friendship between Maggie and Alistair in Blue Skies as I do the relationship with Zevran. (More, really, since Zevran didn't show up until almost 20 chapters in, and I know that seven years down the road she and Alistair will still be like brother and sister while Zevran is out of the picture)

I'm sure mine isn't the only one like that.

#6362
FutileSine

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Hmmm....."30 Dragon" comes to mind - Alistair is given over to the Couslands to raise alongside their son. Haven't read more than the comment though, so I couldn't tell you how well its done, but people seem to like it judging from the reviews.



And the absolute most touching scene I've read regarding friendships was in Decantate's "Blood Poison" between Alistair and Surana. Nearly brought tears to my eyes it was so sweet.



I haven't read any dwarf ones though (or at least not all the way through), which seems to be the origins that would be best for that sort of thing...very interesting family dynamics in both of them. :)

#6363
Raonar

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Hmm, so I really am a sort of minority then.



I'm starting to feel sorry for my protagonist. He's going to have so many issues to deal with, and they'll all belong to other people.



sigh

#6364
soignee

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Missa and Alistair have a bromance. They are bros, and not even the merest hint of sexual tension. I also write about the Brosca dynamic a lot (Rica and Kallah) as that's important to me to tell.

And DDW is not about romance, I would say. Yeah the Zevran relationship is important, but it's not the main plot. 

Modifié par soignee, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:13 .


#6365
FutileSine

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Maria13 wrote...

I wrote clariana.dreamwidth.org/311.html this this weekend about Alfstanna and Irminric for the kink-meme but it has no sex at the poster's request.


:o

I wanted to ask for a link to the story you had said you wrote....but I didn't know if you wanted to share it, so I decided to be polite and not ask....but I'm so happy you posted it!

And can I just say that you did a great (as you always do!!!)  job!  I've always wondered what happened between those two siblings...now I finally get a story to fill in that void!  And the ending - wow.  Beautiful. Slightly...hmmm...disturbing (?) but beautiful nonetheless.    

#6366
Maria13

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Raonar wrote...

Hmm, so I really am a sort of minority then.

I'm starting to feel sorry for my protagonist. He's going to have so many issues to deal with, and they'll all belong to other people.

sigh


Nil desperandum!  Minorities are good but I think most of us have dabbled in non-rom so...

#6367
Raonar

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I am not all that concerned. Since my fiction will be a horribly long monster once I'm finished with it, I'm pretty sure I'll have done pretty much every non-romance relationship thing by the end.



And thanks for your answers BTW. :P

#6368
Sarah1281

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Raonar wrote...

I'm wondering, do any of you lords and ladies know of DA fanfictions that actually explore other types of relationships besides romance? You know, rivalry, family, 'blood brothers', that sort of thing? And I mean in detail, not just hints.

I deal with it of course but not nearly to the extent that I'm sure you're planning on doing. Then again, your story is as long as mine after having done one freaking quest so that's probably to be expected.

#6369
Raonar

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Well, if I hadn't brought in ALL origins, it would not have dragged on so long. But I REGRET NOTHING!!!




#6370
Maria13

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It's impossible and unrealistic to sustain a long narrative solely on the basis of a romantic relationship. Human bonds are much more complex than that, and, in the end, even a romantic relationship is not something that is just between the lovers, but also includes all the other emotional entanglements they bring along with them...

#6371
Merilsell

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

BTW there is one thing I'm relative uncreative right now and this concerns the travel food. What does one eat down there in the Deep Roads, except for beefy sticks? Anyone knows/ ideas? Bleargh.


Dried fruit, hardtack (essentially trail bread/hard biscuits), salted meat, grains (oats and rice - can be boiled/steamed easily), some hard cheeses can keep for a while, as can some root vegetables like potatos, bacon also travels well. Storing food in well-sealed oilcloth is wise, since if any of it gets wet it will rot or start growing.


Thank you so much. That is exactly what I have been looking for. I'm too dependent on the refrigerator and the cans in modern days to still know such stuff. Yeah, I'm sad xD

Maria13 wrote...

It's impossible and unrealistic to sustain a long narrative solely on the basis of a romantic relationship. Human bonds are much more complex than that, and, in the end, even a romantic relationship is not something that is just between the lovers, but also includes all the other emotional entanglements they bring along with them...


Oh this. So much.

Given the romance takes in a huge part within my story, but main plot is rather how a Dalish Warden manages her life within a foreign world and culture with an uncertain future. I actually want to explore friendships with the same depth and slow but steady pace like the romance, because they are at least as important as the main romance. Period.

#6372
Sarah1281

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Good news: Stats are back! 
Bad news: It's convinced I've had a whopping 376 hits today. Posted Image

#6373
FutileSine

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Sarah1281 wrote...

Good news: Stats are back! 
Bad news: It's convinced I've had a whopping 376 hits today. Posted Image


Hahaha....ha...:?

Well, its all about perspective, I suppose.  See....I would be absolutely estatic to have that many hits in one day.
 :lol:

#6374
Sarah1281

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FutileSine wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Good news: Stats are back! 
Bad news: It's convinced I've had a whopping 376 hits today. Posted Image


Hahaha....ha...:?

Well, its all about perspective, I suppose.  See....I would be absolutely estatic to have that many hits in one day.
 :lol:


Well, you have four stories compared to my 185. For you that would be an average of 94 hits per story. For me, it's an average of 2.03.

It's now at 555 which isn't much better.

#6375
Merilsell

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FutileSine wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Good news: Stats are back! 
Bad news: It's convinced I've had a whopping 376 hits today. Posted Image


Hahaha....ha...:?

Well, its all about perspective, I suppose.  See....I would be absolutely estatic to have that many hits in one day.
 :lol:


Me too, lol. Highest I get is 300 on a chapter publishing day of my DA-FF. Then again OEAH is the only active story of mine (but for that very loooong) and makes 98% of my hits in total. The other anime series I have written several stories for are old/abandoned and have only a small fandom, anyway.

So yeah... :?