10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Corker]

maxernst wrote...
Historical parallels are never perfect, but I still find them useful as a
hint.  Political organization can hint at the economic base and social
classes of a society, for example, even if it doesn't precisely parallel
(and why should it?) exactly any real society.

It makes me grumpy is all.  Rather than imagine what a decadent, art-loving, politically dangerous empire in Thedas might look like, they stole set dressings from pre-Revolutionary France because it conjures up a decadent, art-loving, politically dangerous empire.  (Okay, mostly I'm thinking of the wig with the birds in it.  But that's a huge tell to me.) 

A Langeudoc-flavored empire would have fit the Orlesian music/beauty themes to a T, would have sat temporally much more closely to Ferelden's feudal Englishy setting, and would have provided a better contrast between the chevalier-as-myth and the chevalier-in-practice, IMO.  Couldn't you see the Courts of Love actually existing and incorporated into the Game?  Take the whole heresy thing and turn it into something setting-appropriate, like a cabal that follows the Black Divine and works in secret to aid the Tevinter Imperium.  In  my fondest dreams, instead of going on about footwear fashions, Leliana compares the dowdy old epic styles the minstrels used to use (and they still use in Ferelden, pah) to the new lais and even more daring forms the bards use to sing of love and desire.

Instead, bird-wigs.  Boo.

[FutileSine]

Thank goodness for ebooks having a ctrl + f feature!

In TST when Rowan is pretending to be a villager or whatever in Gwaren (so near the end of the book), and the mage thinks she just looks oh so nice, there is one brief description about how the Orlesian chevaliers talked in their "foreign tongue." So from them I think one can say that Orlesian and the King's Tongue are two different languages.

This is the one darn description I could find in the entire book regarding a difference between those two languages. Dear lord. But there WAS a nice description about how some of the Dalish know the King's Tongue because of trade...which is what somebody said way up there (sorry whoever said it - major thumb's up in your direction!)

Modifié par FutileSine, 25 octobre 2010 - 04:49 .

[maxernst]

Corker wrote...

maxernst wrote...
Historical parallels are never perfect, but I still find them useful as a
hint.  Political organization can hint at the economic base and social
classes of a society, for example, even if it doesn't precisely parallel
(and why should it?) exactly any real society.

It makes me grumpy is all.  Rather than imagine what a decadent, art-loving, politically dangerous empire in Thedas might look like, they stole set dressings from pre-Revolutionary France because it conjures up a decadent, art-loving, politically dangerous empire.  (Okay, mostly I'm thinking of the wig with the birds in it.  But that's a huge tell to me.) 

A Langeudoc-flavored empire would have fit the Orlesian music/beauty themes to a T, would have sat temporally much more closely to Ferelden's feudal Englishy setting, and would have provided a better contrast between the chevalier-as-myth and the chevalier-in-practice, IMO.  Couldn't you see the Courts of Love actually existing and incorporated into the Game?  Take the whole heresy thing and turn it into something setting-appropriate, like a cabal that follows the Black Divine and works in secret to aid the Tevinter Imperium.  In  my fondest dreams, instead of going on about footwear fashions, Leliana compares the dowdy old epic styles the minstrels used to use (and they still use in Ferelden, pah) to the new lais and even more daring forms the bards use to sing of love and desire.

Instead, bird-wigs.  Boo.

Slightly off-topic, but Corker have you read Guy Gavriel Kay's ""A Song for Arbonne"?  It sounds like it would be right up your alley.

[Corker]

maxernst wrote...

Slightly off-topic, but Corker have you read Guy Gavriel Kay's ""A Song for Arbonne"?  It sounds like it would be right up your alley.

  I have, although it's been over 10 years now.  I read "Tigana" much more recently, and really want to go through the rest of his stuff.  The man does historically-inspired fantasy world-building really right, IMO.

[Maria13]

Oh, I am also of the school of thinking that Ferelden and Orlesian are different, look at the place names. Doesn't mean that by now given their joint history, there isn't a considerable overlap but I'm sticking with "vive la difference!"

Modifié par Maria13, 25 octobre 2010 - 05:18 .

[maxernst]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Literacy is something that's ignored in games, IMO, or taken for granted for the sake of ease-of-play. Books would have been luxury items for the most part, as it takes a long time to copy books without a printing press.

. >.>

Just a quick comment:  there's no particular technological reason that block printing couldn't have been used. It's pretty laborious, but it was used in Europe in the medieval period (though more widely in the Arab World and china).  I can imagine the Chantry feeling it was a worthwhile endeavour to make faster reproductions of the chant of light.  Actually, even movable type arrived in China by the 11th century.  I don't think there's any particular technological (advances in inks, metallurgy or paper?) reason that the Gutenberg press couldn't have been invented earlier in Thedas.  It's not like having automobiles or a nuclear power plant in Denerim, which require a whole host of other technologies before they could appear.

[DreGregoire]

I'm so horrible. I keep starting new playthroughs and at this rate I will never be done writing fan fiction or playing Dragon Age. LOL.

Heh, I made a mage that is kinda duncan looking. What? He's not related to Duncan or anything. Shesh. Okay actually that's the goal but they'll never know, suspect maybe but not know. LOL. hahaha Duncan Duncan. mmmm Duncan the highlander even better. LOL silly me now I wanna pull out those highlander dvd's

Modifié par DreGregoire, 25 octobre 2010 - 10:31 .

[Merilsell]

*blinks slowly*

Okay I remember we talked about WTF- reviews a few days ago. It seems like I can join the club now, lol.

In the latest review of mine one is complaining that the persons acting too submissive toward my elf's big-mouth at Ostagar. Because humans feeling superior to elves and whatnot. Alistair being too nice, she doesn't get hit for acting like that (?) And Cailan's reaction toward her is unbelievable. Excuse me, I only have frikkin worked with what the game presented to me O__O Not to mention that my Dalish is not a random servant elf but a GW recruit/GW and therefore somewhat respected from humans at the point. Never mind the racial slurs or weird glances from them, I have yet weaved in there. I really don't know what's that person expectation was ? Letting her get hit right in the face several times by humans because they feel superior and tell her to STFU because she direct with her opinion? I'm not writing an elf abusing story, you know? *is disturbed*

I actually don't get the persons point, I just don't get it... [/rant]

*backs away slowly now*

[Sarah1281]

I just looked up that review and WOW is it stupid. In the game when you're rude to Cailan he loves that you're 'spirited' and not acting like a stodgy old priest like Duncan. Even when you say or do something to lower approval with Alistair, he tends to not fly off the handle and especially not when in his element at Ostagar. As for being punched? The Ash Warriors may be a bit condescending, the priestess may call you a heathen if you don't want a prayer, and the quarter master might try to order you around but once he finds out you're a GW he's afraid you'll kill him for what he said. I guess the reviewer was expecting soldiers scared of the darkspawn to try to commit suicide by attacking a GW?

[DreGregoire]

Merilsell wrote...

*blinks slowly*
Okay I remember we talked about WTF- reviews a few days ago. It seems like I can join the club now, lol.
In the latest review of mine one is complaining that the persons acting too submissive toward my elf's big-mouth at Ostagar. Because humans feeling superior to elves and whatnot. Alistair being too nice, she doesn't get hit for acting like that (?) And Cailan's reaction toward her is unbelievable. Excuse me, I only have frikkin worked with what the game presented to me O__O Not to mention that my Dalish is not a random servant elf but a GW recruit/GW and therefore somewhat respected from humans at the point. Never mind the racial slurs or weird glances from them, I have yet weaved in there. I really don't know what's that person expectation was ? Letting her get hit right in the face several times by humans because they feel superior and tell her to STFU because she direct with her opinion? I'm not writing an elf abusing story, you know? *is disturbed*
I actually don't get the persons point, I just don't get it... [/rant]
*backs away slowly now*

I wouldn't worry about it even the merchant at Ostagar get's all nervous when he realizes the elf he was just disrespecting is a grey warden recruit. And Cailan is in awe of the wardens and has respect for the dalish too. pffft probably somebody who played an elf all of once or not at all

[LupusYondergirl]

Maybe they never actually played the game? That's really the only thing I can think of...

[inquartata02]

I just went and read that review, too. Apparently that reviewer missed out on the part where people in Thedas tend to think the GWs are legendary, badass warriors, human, dwarf, or elf. As for Cailan's reaction, you're right, you were working with what the game gave you. It's a rock and a hard place with that sort of thing because if you deviate too much, then you have an NPC acting out of character, and people will complain about that.

[Merilsell]

First of all thanks for all the opinions to that, because it seriously weirded me out. Glad to know I'm not the only one. People are funny like that, it seems.

Sarah1281 wrote...

I just looked up that review and WOW is it stupid. In the game when you're rude to Cailan he loves that you're 'spirited' and not acting like a stodgy old priest like Duncan. Even when you say or do something to lower approval with Alistair, he tends to not fly off the handle and especially not when in his element at Ostagar.

Exactly. I mean that is what the game presented to me and I only took that to work with it. It's a blight story after all, not an weird ass AU-story where everyone is allowed to play punch-o-elf So naturally I take the elements of it to weave them within my story.

It's not that my Dalish is inviolable within there, quite far from it. But to judge it like this, because I based the actions on what the game delivered is..I don't know the word stupid hits it well, I guess.

Sarah, that reminds me on that one reviewer who said you were against the Angelique/Alistair relationship, lol. I mean EVEN ALISTAIR himself is against it, so much imade his clawing to Anora obvious.xD

As for being punched? The Ash Warriors may be a bit condescending, the priestess may call you a heathen if you don't want a prayer, and the quarter master might try to order you around but once he finds out you're a GW he's afraid you'll kill him for what he said. I guess the reviewer was expecting soldiers scared of the darkspawn to try to commit suicide by attacking a GW?

Yeah, lol something to that account. Completely missed the point...again. It's not that everyone is fawning upon my Dalish whatsoever, she has it in fact harder to get some respect due to her race and tiny/weak appearence. The GW-status plays a huge role to get said respect but even that doesn't happen instantly.

That being said, I pay a great deal of heed to develop ALL characters within in a sensible way because that is the standard I have for myself when writing a story. I hate HATE OOC-ness and don't tolerate that to happen in my story. Of course I have my own POV of the characters, as everyone here has, I suppose ...but said view is not so far strayed, that it can be labeled as OOC in any way.

And as it has been said here, I think that person hasn't played an elf so far as well. (Bah always such racists, those shems xD)

And slept during the whole Ostagar scene, no less. 

[Merilsell]

Additionally to that: I want officially announce that Nefand ( Malymin) just has won the internet with her response to that review. So many billion times over.

Frikkin epic and more eloquent than I could ever do this. *hugs her beta* Now I can rest assure, lol.

[mousestalker]

Not to mention the random peasants at the beginning of the Dalish origin are terrified. The Dalish have a nasty reputation. It makes sense that once you are recognized for what you are, a Dalish Grey Warden/ Grey Warden recruit, the general populace would want to stay on your good side.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Nefand/Malymin does awesome reviews/review responses. I was dragging my feet near the end of The Hunt and starting to worry because of some of the reviews were going along the lines of "If the story doesn't end with X paired with Y I'm going to be <insert unhappy emotion>". Malymin not only expressed surprise at said reviews, but pretty much summed up the entire point of the story in 2 or 3 sentences.

It was...awesome (so thank you for that!).

Edit:

On Dalish, it's a pity the game isn't more dynamic for elves and dwarves in general. Another reason why DA2 is going straight human? :/

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:51 .

[maxernst]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Maybe they never actually played the game? That's really the only thing I can think of...

Probably never played as an elf.  I must say when my elf mage met Cailan, I was surprised how much respect he greeted me with, especially after being mistaken for a servant by someone on the way in.  So I wasn't rude to him, though I guess the "human lord" response would pe IC for a lot of Dalish elves. 

[jackkel dragon]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
On Dalish, it's a pity the game isn't more dynamic for elves and dwarves in general. Another reason why DA2 is going straight human? :/

Just you wait. One of these days, a main Dragon Age game is going to be focused on an elf or dwarf only main character. And people will **** and moan more than they did when Hawke was revealed to be human only.

[nefand]

Anything I can do to brighten your day, my dear FF writers, is an honor.  Thank you kindly.

[inquartata02]

Yeah, that smackdown was pretty epic.

[maxernst]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
On Dalish, it's a pity the game isn't more dynamic for elves and dwarves in general. Another reason why DA2 is going straight human? :/

Just you wait. One of these days, a main Dragon Age game is going to be focused on an elf or dwarf only main character. And people will **** and moan more than they did when Hawke was revealed to be human only.

there was somebody who was outraged by mass effect because they had been told they could play it as human and eventually they're forced to have a non-human on their squad for the last few missions.  I thought it was weird, since I don't think of myself as playing Garrus or Wrex.  And it seemed to be that they actually found playing with any non-humans inherently objectionable...I could sort of understand it if they had decided on a Shepard so xenophobic he couldn't trust any non-humans to work with them.

[Merilsell]

inquartata02 wrote...

Yeah, that smackdown was pretty epic.

Indeed. Believe me I'm still sitting here and snickering like mad.
Oh teh joy it brings. (yes I'm easy to amuse, it seems)

*nefand interwebs hug*

[Raonar]

Wow, I went over and read Nefand/Malymin's review and was left in awe.



*wishes he got (more) reviews like that*



The one it responded too was... odd though. I will avoid declaring anything that could possibly considered insulting (although this sentence could easily be taken as such).



Oh who am I kidding, that review more or less fails.

[nos_astra]

Ok, let me play devil's advocate again. I think the reviewer does have a point.

One thing that annoyed me in Origins was the lack of consequences for the Warden's attitude or behaviour, beyond approval loss with your companions. As it was said before: The Warden is protected by the power of plot and it can be too obvious if there is no other convincing reason as to why the Warden can get away with decidedly insensible actions and even murder.

I believe Lenya has so far insulted many people and blatantly murdered two of them. This is explained with her being Dalish and a Grey Warden. But the Grey Wardens are outlawed and considered traitors, so Lenya can hardly rely on that when she's pissing people off or drawing her blade. With a price on her (and Alistair's) head she can't even be open about being a Warden.
Outside of the forest, far away from her clan, people would probably simply see another elf, unless she's wearing a sign saying: Beware! Terryfing Dalish! Of course, they could try to place her accent but I doubt many people have ever seen a Dalish, let alone heard one speak.

If believe it's this lack of consequences the reviewer is feeling uncormfortable with, he thinks more people should stand up against this rude, violent elf. I don't think this is stupid at all.

Modifié par klarabella, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Raonar]

People recognize Dalish because of their facial tattoos. Yes, pretty much everyone knows about their really elaborate tattoos.



Well, more or less.