10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

maxernst wrote...

Just a quick comment:  there's no particular technological reason that block printing couldn't have been used. It's pretty laborious, but it was used in Europe in the medieval period (though more widely in the Arab World and china).  I can imagine the Chantry feeling it was a worthwhile endeavour to make faster reproductions of the chant of light.  Actually, even movable type arrived in China by the 11th century.  I don't think there's any particular technological (advances in inks, metallurgy or paper?) reason that the Gutenberg press couldn't have been invented earlier in Thedas.  It's not like having automobiles or a nuclear power plant in Denerim, which require a whole host of other technologies before they could appear.

It's funny you should mention the Chant of Light, because I don't think we see a book of verses anywhere in the game, we only hear it from NPCs. You'd think for the most prominent religion in Thedas there would be one book where the player can read a few uninterrupted verses, but we only get a few scattered sections of the Chant from actual books (mostly in the Mage Tower).

(Reminds me of the game Ultima VII, where a new religion called the Fellowship had taken off. Every other house in the civilised world had a Book of the Fellowship on the shelf--really drove the point home on how influencial the organisation had become.)

Anyway, I agree that there could be block printing somewhere in Thedas, but I'm unsure if Ferelden would have it, being the backwater bastard child of the world. Tevinter or Orlais would be more likely. But like language, the prolification of books doesn't seem to be a thing game designers really bother dealing with the logic of (how many gamers care?). For the most part, I'll just assume that the Fereldens have Tranquil scribing copies.

[sabreene]

All the books they are reading seem more game related, because we needed them to progress the game.

That said, it could be books - reading/writing are the things they hold on to so they don't feel like a backwards country. Maybe the more well off can send their children to the more elite chantry schools, while the poor have to make do with the local parish and whatever its limitations are (including getting kids that want to be running a farm or working instead of going to school)

I'd assumed the Tranquil were the countries scribes, too. They can probably use a lot of Tranquils in the daily workings to make things easier -- and no complaints from a Tranquil. Makes me wonder if the Chantry ever gets nervous if the number is dropping and they are getting their full expected number of Tranquils. What would they do? Deal with it? Make sure more are made tranquil? Bring in those obvious not suited so they would be made tranquil?

I'm writing a little bit about this now.

Modifié par sabreene, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:18 .

[Corker]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
 For the most part, I'll just assume that the Fereldens have Tranquil scribing copies.

...would Animate Dead work for that, do you think?  If you directly slaved the skeleton to a mage, sat them both in front of a blank quarto of parchment and the mage started writing... you could double your output! 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

"The Chant of Light"

(Transcription provided by Animated Corpse) XD

[Corker]

"Magic must serve man, not rule over him!"

"'E's passed on! This man is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet the Maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the chair 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-MAN!!"

Modifié par Corker, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:43 .

[sabreene]

Corker wrote...


"Magic must serve man, not rule over him!"

"'E's passed on! This man is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet the Maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the chair 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-MAN!!"

Just recently I tried to put a DAO character into Monty Python for a prompt (and the fun of it!) but found all I really wanted to do was repeat the lines.

We were in the nick of time. You were in great peril. 
I don't think I was.
Yes, you were. You were in terrible peril.
 Look, let me go back in there and face the peril.
No, it's too perilous.
Look, it's my duty as a knight to sample as much peril as I can.
No, we've got to find the Holy Grail. Come on.
Oh, let me have just a little bit of peril?
No. It's unhealthy.
I bet you're gay.
 Am not.

Modifié par sabreene, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Corker]

It's a side effect of RPGs - they spawn Python references. Even the devs were not immune! (The Axameter encounter.)

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Bravely bold Ser Jory
Marched forth from Highever.
He was not afraid to die,
O, Brave Ser Jory!
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Jory.

He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
Or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken;
To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away;
And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Sir Jory!

His head smashed in and his heart cut out
And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged
And his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off
And his pen--

Jory: *interrupting hastily* Well that's enough music for now, lads...

To those unfamiliar with Monty Python...The Tale of Brave Sir Robin.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 26 octobre 2010 - 12:19 .

[Sarah1281]

klarabella wrote...

Ok, let me play devil's advocate again. I think the reviewer does have a point.

One thing that annoyed me in Origins was the lack of consequences for the Warden's attitude or behaviour, beyond approval loss with your companions. As it was said before: The Warden is protected by the power of plot and it can be too obvious if there is no other convincing reason as to why the Warden can get away with decidedly insensible actions and even murder.

I believe Lenya has so far insulted many people and blatantly murdered two of them. This is explained with her being Dalish and a Grey Warden. But the Grey Wardens are outlawed and considered traitors, so Lenya can hardly rely on that when she's pissing people off or drawing her blade. With a price on her (and Alistair's) head she can't even be open about being a Warden.
Outside of the forest, far away from her clan, people would probably simply see another elf, unless she's wearing a sign saying: Beware! Terryfing Dalish! Of course, they could try to place her accent but I doubt many people have ever seen a Dalish, let alone heard one speak.

If believe it's this lack of consequences the reviewer is feeling uncormfortable with, he thinks more people should stand up against this rude, violent elf. I don't think this is stupid at all.

I think you sometimes have too much faith in the average WTF reviewer. The review was written for the 'first getting to Ostagar' chapter which means that any concerns about keeping a low profile because you're a Warden don't apply at the time and, while I've yet to read much of the story, I can't imagine that Duncan would allow her to blatantly murder people once she's been recruited and he's standing right next to her on the way to Ostagar. They thought Cailan was OOC for his in-game refusing to get offended by the 'spirited' GW and the dialogue that Lenya has with Cailan isn't really that much ruder than what the game gives you and I don't see how expecting humans (some of them not even armed) to punch a heavily armed elf who is part of an order with a reputation for only recruiting skilled fighters in the face because they are so racist that they can't tolerate a little rudeness makes any sense at all. People without weapons who go around assaulting people with weapons are just too stupid to live and there aren't many of those people in origins. Some, such as the desperate refugees, but not many.

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I think you sometimes have too much faith in the average WTF reviewer.

You're probably right.

Modifié par klarabella, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:43 .

[Reika]

So what do you do when you have a constant reviewer and you go to check out their story, but it just leaves you cold? Technically the writing was excellent, but the way they wrote up the characters you don't recognize the NPCs and the main character is beyond obnoxious?



I'm trying to think of something polite to say.

[inquartata02]

One thing that annoyed me in Origins was the lack of consequences for the Warden's attitude or behaviour, beyond approval loss with your companions.

Especially when talking to Duncan or Cailan. On a whim, I once went through every Origin being as rude as possible to both of them to see if they could be pissed off. They really... don't. I was disappointed.

[FutileSine]

Reika wrote...

So what do you do when you have a constant reviewer and you go to check out their story, but it just leaves you cold? Technically the writing was excellent, but the way they wrote up the characters you don't recognize the NPCs and the main character is beyond obnoxious?

I'm trying to think of something polite to say.

Did they have a particular phrase that you liked - or was it an interesting perspective?   An author can't expect a story to appeal to everyone - and just the fact that you took the time out to read and review should make them feel awesome (and good for you for doing so....or trying to do so at least:lol:)  

Or, you can just go by that old standby and use a really generic "Great chapter" or "Interesting Idea" and maybe reference a particular event in the story to give some indication that you read a chapter or two...  

[DreGregoire]

inquartata02 wrote...

One thing that annoyed me in Origins was the lack of consequences for the Warden's attitude or behaviour, beyond approval loss with your companions.

Especially when talking to Duncan or Cailan. On a whim, I once went through every Origin being as rude as possible to both of them to see if they could be pissed off. They really... don't. I was disappointed.

Oh I don't know about that. Duncan can be very short in the Mage origins. Duncan has to be diplomatic. That aside don't you think that Duncan getting pissed off at a person whose world had just been turned upside down, just because that person is being rude would be out of character for him? Also remember that Cailan has had to deal with Loghain all of his life so why would he get pissed because somebody under stress disrespected him?

I'm not sure saying there is a lack of consequences for the warden's attitude or behavior is accurate. I've seen it in game with npc's. I've done a few playthroughs and I'm always amazed at how something I did impacts the world. One time I sucked at pickpocket but did it anyways and nobody in Lothering would give me the time of day. I think if you ask anybody who plays a not so talented thief that there are consequences later. I don't like to go into alot of details because I feel that people should explore these avenue's themselves.

All this aside. I like to write conflict with a not so nice resolution into my stories. I just imagine it all slightly different for my stories.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:43 .

[mousestalker]

One thing to consider with Duncan and possibly with Cailan is that Duncan is well aware that the new recruit may die in the Joining. Up until you show up at the altar there is also the chance you could back out. He very much wants as many living Wardens as possible. He might be willing to tolerate more attitude from a recruit than from a junior Warden. If Cailan is aware of the chnace of mortality, he may be cutting the mouthy recruit a break. No reason to lose your temper with someone who might be dead in a day or so.



Or he could just be a nice guy. Most of my characters typically view him as a well meaning fool.

[inquartata02]

Oh I don't know about that. Duncan can be very short in the Mage origins. Duncan has to be diplomatic. That aside don't you think that Duncan getting pissed off at a person whose world had just been turned upside down, just because that person is being rude would be out of character for him?

Oh, I do understand why Duncan is so patient, character-wise and gameplay-wise (at least, I believe I do). I think the disappointment was more in the inability to break him of said patience from an RP perspective of an annoyed or angry PC. Though now I might try the mage origin again to see if I didn't choose the right dialogue options to get him annoyed. Because of the whole 'having to go into the Fade' bit about the mage origin, it's the one I've played the least. I hate the Fade with the passion of a thousand fiery suns.



And Cailan is... Cailan. As mousestalker mentioned, he really just seemed like a nice guy.

[DreGregoire]

inquartata02 wrote...

Oh I don't know about that. Duncan can be very short in the Mage origins. Duncan has to be diplomatic. That aside don't you think that Duncan getting pissed off at a person whose world had just been turned upside down, just because that person is being rude would be out of character for him?

Oh, I do understand why Duncan is so patient, character-wise and gameplay-wise (at least, I believe I do). I think the disappointment was more in the inability to break him of said patience from an RP perspective of an annoyed or angry PC. Though now I might try the mage origin again to see if I didn't choose the right dialogue options to get him annoyed. Because of the whole 'having to go into the Fade' bit about the mage origin, it's the one I've played the least. I hate the Fade with the passion of a thousand fiery suns.

And Cailan is... Cailan. As mousestalker mentioned, he really just seemed like a nice guy.

Heh, I can understand that. For my roleplay I assume much has been worked out on the way to Ostagar. So maybe you could just imagine having pushed his buttons then and watched the world explode haha. *PC hides from Duncan in Ostagar* "Come on Alistair lets do everything else before having to face the beard again." hahaha I love how Duncan sighs when you choose certain conversation options when you and Alistair talk to him after the joining and before the battle.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 26 octobre 2010 - 05:26 .

[LupusYondergirl]

Reika wrote...

So what do you do when you have a constant reviewer and you go to check out their story, but it just leaves you cold? Technically the writing was excellent, but the way they wrote up the characters you don't recognize the NPCs and the main character is beyond obnoxious?

I'm trying to think of something polite to say.

Did they ask you for your opinion or request that you read it?  If not, I honestly wouldn't say anything.

I think I'm the lone jerk who doesn't read all their reviewers stories, though. I know it's kind of expected, and I really wish I could, but I just don't have the time.

[DreGregoire]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I know it's kind of expected, and I really wish I could, but I just don't have the time.

I don't think that a person reviews with the expectation that you will review their stories and I'm sure that people understand that people have other things in their lives other than just fanfiction. Unless a person is leaving a nasty gram 'your story sucked and you suck too,' then they are reviewing to help and encourage you.

I would love to review peoples work but I suck at it because after I'm done reading I go into lala land about the story and can't think of anything constructive to say because it was like so awesome that it made my mind go into overdrive. Usually all I can manage is a 'I love it keep it coming!'

Modifié par DreGregoire, 26 octobre 2010 - 05:44 .

[Maria13]

Personally, I think Duncan has to be uber diplomatic with everyone because he knows his order's future depends on his being so... Hence his comment to Alistair, "Did you have to sass the mage?"

[DreGregoire]

Maria13 wrote...

Personally, I think Duncan has to be uber diplomatic with everyone because he knows his order's future depends on his being so... Hence his comment to Alistair, "Did you have to sass the mage?"

hehe "I apoligize."

[mousestalker]

DreGregoire wrote...

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I know it's kind of expected, and I really wish I could, but I just don't have the time.

I don't think that a person reviews with the expectation that you will review their stories and I'm sure that people understand that people have other things in their lives other than just fanfiction. Unless a person is leaving a nasty gram 'your story sucked and you suck too,' then they are reviewing to help and encourage you.

I don't review in the expectation of reciprocity. I do try to say something when I read a story and enjoy it, even if it's a 'good story!' review. An author may not learn much from reading a review like that, but from the other end, it's nice to know when you've struck a spark in a reader. I see it as payment, much like applauding after a play. If I don't like a story, I don't say anything, unless I can think of a particular reason that blocked my enjoyment (consistent mis-spelling of 'lose' is a bete noire). 

[LupusYondergirl]

Hm... No, I think I said that badly. (so so tired today. I was up with insomnia until five, hence the chapter I posted at four... and had a ten am class)
I don't mean that people review expecting reviews themselves. I just feel like, if someone took the time to read my longwinded stuff, and actually comment on it, the polite thing would be to do the same. Not that it's expected in a "review mine and I'll review yours" way, just that to me it feels like I should take the time to read other people's stuff more. Not that I assume others expect it of me, it's just an expectation I've set for myself that I fail in.
If that makes any sense...

I'll probably spend a good two weeks solid doing nothing but reading fanfic as soon as my thesis is done and semester complete, just to catch up on everything I don't have time for now.

(only finding the time to post now since I finished my paper comparing Raskolnikov and Svidirgailov in Crime and Punishment took less time than I expected. And if I try and nap in the library now I'll miss my 2:30 class.  I'm actually the kind of tired where my EYES hurt.  How does that even happen?  Ugh.)

Modifié par LupusYondergirl, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:06 .

[DreGregoire]

??? How can you spell Lose wrong? LOL

Modifié par DreGregoire, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:06 .

[DreGregoire]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

And if I try and nap in the library now I'll miss my 2:30 class.)

*keeps pinching you to keep you awake*