10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Raonar]

She'll get better, don't worry.



Still, there will be some serious high octane nightmare fuel before then.

[Corker]

@Sialater, if Bioware was of a mind to get fan artists to stop drawing commissions, I assume that they'd have the legal standing to do so.

[Addai]

soignee wrote...

Yus indeed, that is how it works. I can draw Missa/Zevran for freeeeee as it's for my own lulz and amusement, but if someone wants me to draw Morrigan having a serious conversation with an owl and their character, I get paid.

...I now want to draw Morrigan talking to an owl. IDK why either.

Do it!

[inquartata02]

Raonar wrote...

She'll get better, don't worry.

Still, there will be some serious high octane nightmare fuel before then.

I hope so. Being on either end of a psychotic break sucks. Very emotionally charged and frightening.

[Addai]

Sialater wrote...

Yeah, but if someone wanted me to write them the story of how their Warden fell for Zevran... I couldn't charge for it.

I just don't get it.

You could if someone was willing to pay you for it.  Why not?  I mean, copyright issues aside, it's all about what people are willing to pony up for.

[Miri1984]

@Sialater I actually don't think there would be a problem if you wanted to write fanfic by commission - I just doubt there'd be a demand for it. Also, as long as you don't claim that YOU made up Zevran there's less of a legal problem.



There are authors out there who don't allow fanfiction of their works (Ann Rice comes to mind) at least not in any public forum. Bioware is nice to us and even lets us post it on their forums. I figure anything that gets the brand out there for them without them having to put any money into it is just like free advertising for them.



And yes, I'm sure legally they would have grounds for disallowing commissions. But I hope they don't.

[inquartata02]

Addai67 wrote...
Why not?  I mean, copyright issues aside, it's all about what people are willing to pony up for.

Right, but that copyright issue means you have no right to accept money for your story that makes use of someone else's intellectual property unless you've got permission. Playing in someone else's universe is one thing, but making money off it is another, I would think.

I could be wrong.

[Sialater]

Even if there was a demand for it, I'd prefer not to be sued.

[Sarah1281]

Sialater wrote...

Even if there was a demand for it, I'd prefer not to be sued.

I find it highly unlikely that they'd sue amateurs only making a little money on it since it wouldn't be worth it and they're not obsessively anti-fanwork like some creators.

[mousestalker]

Seeing as how they are very much aware of the fan art market (David Gaider is a fan of Aimo's (Aren't we all, though)), I rather doubt any litigation is incoming. If they do decide to ban fan art for pay, the first step would be announcing it, followed by sending cease and desist letters. If you cease and desist, you do not get sued.

[Raonar]

inquartata02 wrote...

Raonar wrote...

She'll get better, don't worry.

Still, there will be some serious high octane nightmare fuel before then.

I hope so. Being on either end of a psychotic break sucks. Very emotionally charged and frightening.

Well, to be fair, most of the problems are Urthemiel's fault...

And yeah, David Gaider even worked with Aimo on a comic about a Morrigan-Alistair confrontation before the Dark Ritual.

Modifié par Raonar, 30 novembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Addai]

inquartata02 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Why not?  I mean, copyright issues aside, it's all about what people are willing to pony up for.

Right, but that copyright issue means you have no right to accept money for your story that makes use of someone else's intellectual property unless you've got permission. Playing in someone else's universe is one thing, but making money off it is another, I would think.

I could be wrong.

Yeah, I don't know the issues either, but I imagine it would be different if it's a nominal charge and only for personal use versus something commercially published.

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Even if there was a demand for it, I'd prefer not to be sued.

I find it highly unlikely that they'd sue amateurs only making a little money on it since it wouldn't be worth it and they're not obsessively anti-fanwork like some creators.

Bioware is owned by EA. EA would totally sue you, I'm afraid.

Modifié par klarabella, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[Sialater]

klarabella wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Even if there was a demand for it, I'd prefer not to be sued.

I find it highly unlikely that they'd sue amateurs only making a little money on it since it wouldn't be worth it and they're not obsessively anti-fanwork like some creators.

Bioware is owned by EA. EA would totally sue you, I'm afraid.

Exactly.

"Donations," are an entirely different animal, though.  

[Mahkara]

"Did you ever try to write about insanity... from the insane person's point of view? I mean specifically putting insanity into words form the perspective of said person Say, someone is losing his/her mind and getting her memories and emotions mixed up. Add to that chronological incoherence and you've got a horrible paste of ideas that you have to put on paper, or in this case in a doc."



Yes. And differently from the way a lot of people do it.



Most people seem to write insanity as...I'm not sure. It's pretty damned obvious to me, though, that most don't research mental illnesses very well (which kind of upsets me), and so go "OMG, they're seeing stuff, insane!"



In general, people who are insane have an inkling that they are, at least after the first psychotic episode. I mean, you see stuff that *shouldn't* be there, yeah, you probably know that something's up.



Also, visual hallucinations are *incredibly* rare. Auditory are more common. Delusions still more common. Honestly, though, mental illness (of some sort) affects about 20-25% of the population (at some point in their life). Psychosis is more like 1%, and tends to only be found (in any real high percentage) in those who are bipolar or schizophrenic. (And psychosis tends to be different in both diseases). Admittedly, there are some personality disorder types who experience it, and a few depressives, but the real numbers are on schizophrenia/bipolar.



Again, you're in a fantasy world. You can do what you want.



...but, I'd imagine that the story reads a lot better if you use actual examples from people who've experienced genuine psychosis, rather than just make them "crazy". Same for PTSD/phobias/depression/anxiety, etc. Doing a bit of research on them isn't hard...



(In case anyone is curious, I used a combination of PTSD, depression, and alcoholism for my "insanity".)

[Raonar]

Mahkara wrote...

"Did you ever try to write about insanity... from the insane person's point of view? I mean specifically putting insanity into words form the perspective of said person Say, someone is losing his/her mind and getting her memories and emotions mixed up. Add to that chronological incoherence and you've got a horrible paste of ideas that you have to put on paper, or in this case in a doc."

Yes. And differently from the way a lot of people do it.

Most people seem to write insanity as...I'm not sure. It's pretty damned obvious to me, though, that most don't research mental illnesses very well (which kind of upsets me), and so go "OMG, they're seeing stuff, insane!"

In general, people who are insane have an inkling that they are, at least after the first psychotic episode. I mean, you see stuff that *shouldn't* be there, yeah, you probably know that something's up.

Also, visual hallucinations are *incredibly* rare. Auditory are more common. Delusions still more common. Honestly, though, mental illness (of some sort) affects about 20-25% of the population (at some point in their life). Psychosis is more like 1%, and tends to only be found (in any real high percentage) in those who are bipolar or schizophrenic. (And psychosis tends to be different in both diseases). Admittedly, there are some personality disorder types who experience it, and a few depressives, but the real numbers are on schizophrenia/bipolar.

Again, you're in a fantasy world. You can do what you want.

...but, I'd imagine that the story reads a lot better if you use actual examples from people who've experienced genuine psychosis, rather than just make them "crazy". Same for PTSD/phobias/depression/anxiety, etc. Doing a bit of research on them isn't hard...

(In case anyone is curious, I used a combination of PTSD, depression, and alcoholism for my "insanity".)

Hmm, very insightful. Thanks! I guess this means that my character didn't go insane ALL the way after all. She did start to have some visual halucinations, but that was just in the so-called 'later'phase and it happened because the Calling was strong enough that she was starting to have waking nightmares (think the spell's effect, only spontaenous).

Then she almost died... and got better.

[Mahkara]

Hmm, very insightful. Thanks! I guess this means that my character didn't go insane ALL the way after all. She did start to have some visual halucinations, but that was just in the so-called 'later'phase and it happened because the Calling was strong enough that she was starting to have waking nightmares (think the spell's effect, only spontaenous).

Then she almost died... and got better. 

Oh, thanks!

I think that a lot for me depends on how insanity is done. I see a lot of "they're crazy!!!!" which doesn't really make much sense in a real world context...and I'd love to see more work done where the writer obviously had opened up a DSM and went "huh, these are the actual symptoms of X, Y, and Z". There a lot of writing out there on mental illness, too, so it's not too hard to get a perspective for what it would be like to actually start seeing things, and how real people have reacted.

Waking nightmares are fairly common, and a side effect of a lot of drugs (in addition to real mental illnesses).  They are really, really frightening (I've had them), and may be one of the best ways to show "insanity", as they're common, you snap out of them fairly quickly (usually), and they're really freaky.

[inquartata02]

Mahkara wrote...

I think that a lot for me depends on how insanity is done. I see a lot of "they're crazy!!!!" which doesn't really make much sense in a real world context...and I'd love to see more work done where the writer obviously had opened up a DSM and went "huh, these are the actual symptoms of X, Y, and Z". There a lot of writing out there on mental illness, too, so it's not too hard to get a perspective for what it would be like to actually start seeing things, and how real people have reacted.

Waking nightmares are fairly common, and a side effect of a lot of drugs (in addition to real mental illnesses).  They are really, really frightening (I've had them), and may be one of the best ways to show "insanity", as they're common, you snap out of them fairly quickly (usually), and they're really freaky.

And one would think writing from the perspective of the one suffering through the "Insanity" (used for lack of a better all-encompassing word) would be especially difficult for someone who has not gone through it, as it were.

Perhaps one of the most frightening aspects is that vague sensation that something is not right when you believe you are hearing things, and then you see in the reactions and eyes and faces of others that they don't believe you and they don't hear what you do. 

[Mahkara]

Yeah, I agree that it's really hard to write someone who's very mentally ill if someone hasn't had similar issues. That said, there are a lot of resources that should be helpful. (Blogs, books, memoirs, etc.)



And the "something is not right" has always been (for me) the really disturbing part about waking nightmares. You sort of know that this has to be a dream, and yet it's NOT, and it takes a bit to come out of it (not to mention, it's really embarrassing to explain to other people who see you panic-ing for no reason). I dealt (briefly) with someone who had auditory hallucinations, and it was definitely really hard for him, as he knew that what he was hearing *wasn't* real, but he could hear it all the same. I'm not sure how well he could distinguish between the hallucinations and what he was actually hearing, but I had the impression that he could to some extent, as apparently listening to lots of noises (esp. people talking) seemed to help a lot.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sialater wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Even if there was a demand for it, I'd prefer not to be sued.

I find it highly unlikely that they'd sue amateurs only making a little money on it since it wouldn't be worth it and they're not obsessively anti-fanwork like some creators.

Bioware is owned by EA. EA would totally sue you, I'm afraid.

Exactly.

"Donations," are an entirely different animal, though.  

I'm not so sure about that. It's a *very* slippery slope when money becomes involved and donations are no exception.

A mod I worked on some years ago used (and acknowledged) EA material, and there was no way in hell the team was willing to risk accepting donations either before or after the project completed, even though many people offered. Our project lead pointed people towards a charity if they wanted to give up coin in thanks for mod goodness, and that was it.

How fanart gets away with it I don't know. I'm sure some fanfiction writers could manage...just one method off the top of my head would be asking readers for a $1 donation to access subsequent chapters of a story. Whether or not earning money for art based on someone else's IP is ethical, let alone legal...

*shrug*

[Elysium-Fic]

I do have a question, though... how can an artist charge for fanart? .

They're not charging for the image.  They're charging for the labor.  They don't own the images of the characters, but they do own their own time.  That is what the commission compensates them for; using their own time to create something for us.

[Sagacious Rage]

Mahkara wrote...

"Did you ever try to write about insanity... from the insane person's point of view?

Swooping in and bearing pompoms to say HURRAY UNRELIABLE NARRATORS!

It can be really challenging, but when it's done well it's so amazing. I tried in "Prodigal" when Maebh was grieving over Cailan and ended up lyrium addled and then going through withdrawal. I think Crisium did a much better job in "What We Become" when Cullen was also dealing with lyrium withdrawal. 

As for accuracy, I know I took advantage of the "Lyrium isn't a real thing, we have no idea how it would really affect a person!" handwaving technique. I tried to base a lot of Maebh's behavior on what we see of Irminric. The whole detox procedure I just made up. 

I think my favorite unreliable narrators have been when I can make out just enough of what's really going on to know just how badly the narrator is screwing up.

[Raonar]

Ah, I'm toying with the idea of unreliable narrators in my tale. Said unreliable narrator is Wynne, oddly enough. I've started to condense the less important segments of events in her journal entries, complete with her personal opinions on the seven Grey Wardens (read: personal bias).

[Sagacious Rage]

Well, there's a difference between a third person limited/first person narrative style and an unreliable narrator. They can be like the examples I posted above, where there's some chemical/physical reason that the person is incapable of perceiving reality. Or they can be so disturbed by their own actions/behavior that they are incapable of even approaching reality in what they're saying. A really good example of the latter is Humbert Humbert, the narrator of "Lolita".



When you're writing a person who's in full control of their faculties and is trying to report accurately, that's not exactly an unreliable narrator. Naturally, some bias is going to enter the narrative any time you're not using something like third person omniscient but you're not necessarily into unreliable narrator territory until the narrator is in some way incapable of even close to accurate descriptions of events.

[Maria13]

Elysium, you could say the same of FF writers, sure we don't own all the characters or the setting but we invest time/labour...