10369 réponses à ce sujet

[LupusYondergirl]

In the case of art, though, they're only charging one person, and that person requests exactly what they want done, but after that it's free for anyone to view.
I don't really think there COULD be an equivalent in terms of fic instead of art. When I got a card from Aimo I sent her the pose I wanted, the colors of their robes, screencaps of my warden, everything.
I know someone mentioned charging to read new chapters, but it really isn't the same thing at all. After all, anyone can go to Aimo's gallery and see my card. And I can post it all over for people to see. I paid so she would make just the card I wanted, but it's free after that. Not everyone pays to view it.

How could someone do that to request a personalized story? Give a vague description of their character's personality? Detail the scene they want? At that point it doesn't seem far off from writing it themselves.  And even if such a thing could be managed, how much demand would there actually be?  And how many writers want to basically churn out prescripted stories?  Since that's the closest to the commission art market it could get.

But it remains that Bioware/EA are fully aware of the commissioned fanart market. They've worked with Aimo in the past, and linked her site from their official blog multiple times. Her site has a large visible link on the front page about commissioning work. That, in itself, is a form of tacit approval, IMO.

Modifié par LupusYondergirl, 04 décembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[Maria13]

Ah well, sometimes it could be Anais Nin always maintained that she was paid by the page by a conoisseur to write her erotic stories... Fay Weldon was recently paid by Bulgari (?) to write a book in which its products were mentioned... I believe the estates of various writers (Ian Fleming?) have commissioned other writers to write continuation stories...

[Rikudou Sennin]

how long has this been here whilst i've been playing Kotor (lol) ssorry i had to make a joke ^^

[Elysium-Fic]

Maria13 wrote...

Elysium, you could say the same of FF writers, sure we don't own all the characters or the setting but we invest time/labour...

It's true, you could.  But the market for on-commission fanfic doesn't seem to exist, while the market for on-commission fanart does.

[Rikudou Sennin]

Elysium-Fic wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Elysium, you could say the same of FF writers, sure we don't own all the characters or the setting but we invest time/labour...

It's true, you could.  But the market for on-commission fanfic doesn't seem to exist, while the market for on-commission fanart does.

i'm part of the fan-art department ^^ and proud of it!!!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

But it remains that Bioware/EA are fully aware of the commissioned fanart market. They've worked with Aimo in the past, and linked her site from their official blog multiple times. Her site has a large visible link on the front page about commissioning work. That, in itself, is a form of tacit approval, IMO.

Letting people know people (like Aimo) do commissions isn't the same as approving commissions based on their IP. It's not tacit approval of paid fanart, it's letting people know that if they like Aimo's work they can pay her to draw something for them. If the artist has contacted EA and has their explicit approval to use their characters for profit, that's another story. And one I can tell you now will never happen

Unpaid fan art/fiction is a copyright infringement all by itself, and one that some publishers aggressively pursue and others ignore. Getting *money* for copyright infringement? Just because it happens and nothing's being done about it doesn't mean it's legal, approved or ethical.

[Addai]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Unpaid fan art/fiction is a copyright infringement all by itself, and one that some publishers aggressively pursue and others ignore. Getting *money* for copyright infringement? Just because it happens and nothing's being done about it doesn't mean it's legal, approved or ethical.

So there's a community creations board on BSN for....?

I for one am glad for whatever means there's more Dragon Age art out there, and thankful that BioWare encourages fan work in both modding and art.  I imagine they see it as good business to create a loyal fan community and put more advertising about the game out in the wilds.

[Addai]

Maria13 wrote...

Ah well, sometimes it could be Anais Nin always maintained that she was paid by the page by a conoisseur to write her erotic stories... Fay Weldon was recently paid by Bulgari (?) to write a book in which its products were mentioned... I believe the estates of various writers (Ian Fleming?) have commissioned other writers to write continuation stories...

Publishers hiring ghost writers would be a bit of a different story, I think.

As I said upthread and others have pointed out, it's all in what people will pay for.  The fanfiction market is pretty flooded, for one thing.  It might be different if no one was writing any.  Or maybe it just seems that way to me because I never feel like I have time to keep up!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Addai67 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Unpaid fan art/fiction is a copyright infringement all by itself, and one that some publishers aggressively pursue and others ignore. Getting *money* for copyright infringement? Just because it happens and nothing's being done about it doesn't mean it's legal, approved or ethical.

So there's a community creations board on BSN for....?

So they know who they can sue! *diabolical laughter*

Seriously though, some publishers, like you said, encourage fan works to a certain extent. Look at FF.Net and the professional writers who do allow or don't allow fanfiction based on their works. JK Rowling is reportedly flattered by FF and loves to know it's out there. Anne Mccaffrey doesn't allow FF and the site stopped showing stuff based on her work ages ago at her insistence. Disney allows a lot of derivative work to exist because it looke better than grinding adoring fans into dust with the steel boots of copyright.

Whatever the stance of authors/publishers, they CAN take legal action if they WANT to, because FF and other derivative works is copyright infringement. Like Bioware/EA CAN take legal action if they WANT to.

[Sarah1281]

I don't think anyone claimed that there wasn't anything Bioware/EA could do about it.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't think anyone claimed that there wasn't anything Bioware/EA could do about it.

Yeah...I know. Attitudes of 'Doing this must be perfectly acceptable if no one's directly said not to' irk me, unfortunately. I'll turn off the rant taps.

[Addai]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Whatever the stance of authors/publishers, they CAN take legal action if they WANT to, because FF and other derivative works is copyright infringement. Like Bioware/EA CAN take legal action if they WANT to.

Oh yeah, I realize that.  Personally I would never go against a writer's expressed wishes in that regard.  Say, George R. R. Martin who also is anti-fanfiction.  It's their right and perfectly understandable.  As it is, even with writers like David Gaider who says he's flattered by it, I feel like I'm rummaging through their unders drawers by using their characters and world setting.  Still do it, I guess. 

Anyway, I think we all realize that we're lucky to have a lore world where the creative teams are willing to share and even give thumbs up to fan work.  It makes it a lot more fun.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Agreed, Addai

[Mahkara]

<i>Swooping in and bearing pompoms to say HURRAY UNRELIABLE NARRATORS!</i>



Hah, I love them!



That said, I think that it would be really hard to write more than a short fic with one who was severely mentally ill. Just his or her perception of reality would be so of as to make for a kind of bizarre fic.



...and I'm always a bit fan of hand waving and "but it's fantasy!" That said, I think that it still works better when authors look up actual symptoms of drug withdrawl/abuse/mental illness and try to copy them, rather than just go "this is what I want insanity to be". Although, of course, one can always tweak to the plot. (God only knows, I tweak <i>everything</i> to work with my plots. Then again, most of the signs of "insanity" in <i>Paved with Good Intentions</i> were either from waking nightmares, depression, drug additction, or eating disorders...yeah, let's not go into any of them...)

[Mahkara]

I'm always sort of puzzled by the anti-fanworks authors. It seems very strange to me, but it makes sense to respect their decisions.



...that said, accepting money is always a risk. Then again, I think that it's pretty unlikely that anyone is going to be sued over accepting $10 for a fan art commission...

[Addai]

I read GRRM's reasoning and it's basically a mixture of slippery slope- at what point does he sue?- and also feeling like his characters are his children and you don't let someone mess with them. Perfectly understandable. I don't think they even need to justify it really. If they said "just don't do it," that would be enough for me.

[Esbatty]

Or we could move to japan and then just make published fan works for profit, as is there way over there with doujinshi and what not using licensed characters and other peoples IPs.



Yes, the Ecchi Adventures of Loghain, I can see it now!

[jackkel dragon]

Not related to fanfic selling, but I thought I'd share something wierd.



A while ago, I finished my first non-school related story after 2-3 weeks of work because I had a solid outline. There *were* revisions, and the version up on FF.net is even more revised, but it had an outline and that stuck with me as "do this if you want to finish anything."



So I wrote a very vauge outline of Legend of Tayte when I began, and it has gone through some revisions and such. But I just finished the introduction of a character that needs to do something while in a sane frame of mind, but the introduction presents them as a raving lunatic. I'm all for character growth, but this is going to be challenging.



I guess I came to ask a question: does anyone else plan for a character to be one way but write them in a way they didn't originally intend? (By the way, this is easier than it sounds for predefined but well-developed characters like the DAO companions.) I'm not talking about side-trips, rather something like the character being very pushy rather than passive-aggressive.

[Sagacious Rage]

jackkel dragon wrote...

I guess I came to ask a question: does anyone else plan for a character to be one way but write them in a way they didn't originally intend? (By the way, this is easier than it sounds for predefined but well-developed characters like the DAO companions.) I'm not talking about side-trips, rather something like the character being very pushy rather than passive-aggressive.

Absolutely. When I started my main longfic I had planned for Maebh, the Warden, to be super cool and calculating, totally together and aloof. Instead she has turned into a barely-contained whirlwind of emotions and neuroses. She's a ton of fun to write but nothing at all like I planned her to be like.

The really funny thing is I stared an original project and one of the female characters in that has turned out to be a lot like what I originally intended Maebh to be like. So that character was still in me somewhere, she just didn't fit in DA: O. 

[Esbatty]

jackkel dragon wrote...

I guess I came to ask a question: does anyone else plan for a character to be one way but write them in a way they didn't originally intend? (By the way, this is easier than it sounds for predefined but well-developed characters like the DAO companions.) I'm not talking about side-trips, rather something like the character being very pushy rather than passive-aggressive.

Omen from In The Land Of Ever, is a total 180 from what I original envisioned. In the outline I had her staying true to her Desire Demon nature and basically attempt to seduce the Warden and steal the Old God Child from Morrigan. Kind of a "Hand That Rocks The Cradle" thing with her wanting a real physical version of what she had with the Templar from The Broken Circle quest. Instead her character became the "lie" she was going to tell. She is way more sympathetic and emotive than what I had in the character breakdowns, and from all the responses people really seem to like her as is. So it turned out to be a good thing, the change.

[Maria13]

Addai67 wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Ah well, sometimes it could be Anais Nin always maintained that she was paid by the page by a conoisseur to write her erotic stories... Fay Weldon was recently paid by Bulgari (?) to write a book in which its products were mentioned... I believe the estates of various writers (Ian Fleming?) have commissioned other writers to write continuation stories...

Publishers hiring ghost writers would be a bit of a different story, I think.

As I said upthread and others have pointed out, it's all in what people will pay for.  The fanfiction market is pretty flooded, for one thing.  It might be different if no one was writing any.  Or maybe it just seems that way to me because I never feel like I have time to keep up!

No I was keeping away from ghostwriting which is another kettle of fish.  A rather celebrated British novelist called Sebastian Faulkes was commissioned by Ian Fleming's estate to write a new James Bond novel...  The estate of Douglas Adams also commisioned an Irish writer whose surname escapes me but his first name is Eoin to write a continuation of "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (I bought it for hubby who is a HHGttG fan and he said it was very good) I guess it's a new trend in estates realising that authorised FF can actually increase their income once the original rain maker has passed on to Elysium...

Also as re Lupus' objection you know what to paint but not what to write, sometimes writers have created a need in their patrons that these didn't know existed, I'm thinking about Shakespeare's sonnets, for example.  Sometimes people commissioning graphic works have no idea what they want either, dad worked as a textile designer and often the only brief he got was "something with flowers..." he'd work like a dog only to be told, "no, not those flowers..."

I think what I was responding to was initially the presumption that graphic artists need to be rewarded more than writers for time and effort when actually I see both as the same but graphic artists just happen to be more fortunate in current market conditions so I did not understand why my suggestion writing for pictures was phooh-phoohed...

Anyway, I guess we could take a leaf from Anais Nin and charge for kink-meme fills (joking!)

Addai, as for keeping up, I so understand...

[Sarah1281]

Maria13 wrote...



I think what I was responding to was initially the presumption that graphic artists need to be rewarded more than writers for time and effort when actually I see both as the same but graphic artists just happen to be more fortunate in current market conditions so I did not understand why my suggestion writing for pictures was phooh-phoohed...

People do art trades all the time although I don't think I've encountered anyone trading art for a story. It would be a trade, though, that some people are open to and others aren't and not really a commission.

[Maria13]

Well, if anyone reading this is open to trading illustration for writing... Contact me. As I said I have previously paid for commissions but am not currently in a position to do so because I am unemployed.

Modifié par Maria13, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:54 .

[Elysium-Fic]

I guess I came to ask a question: does anyone else plan for a character to be one way but write them in a way they didn't originally intend? (By the way, this is easier than it sounds for predefined but well-developed characters like the DAO companions.) I'm not talking about side-trips, rather something like the character being very pushy rather than passive-aggressive.

Welcome to character-driven writing.

I am sure we can rationalize it all as the characters being more fully actualized in our sub-conscious minds in ways that haven't yet really reached our conscious minds, but what it basically boils down to is the characters seize control of the writing and the author is pretty much just along for the ride.

I've had characters completely throw my outline out the window.  "Nope, doesn't work, get rid of it."  Gone.

I've had characters take a story that was meant to be one thing and completely transform it into something else.

I've had characters discover something about themselves that require me to go back and do rewrites on earlier chapters because suddenly it just doesn't work.

Usually if I hit a writers block, it's because a character is sulking over the fact that I want them to do something they know they shouldn't be doing, or aren't ready to do yet.  Getting past the writers block seems to involve some form of compromise.

But on the whole, it seems these sorts of characters, the ones who take control and tell their own story, are the best, and the story is usually better because of them.  And yes, it happens with the NPCs as much as the PCs/OCs.

Fun times, fun times...

[Merilsell]

As for characters....well they mostly do what THEY want..not what I want, lol.I always have a certain plan what to do and what should contain a chapter I write, but that is mostly for naught because my characters have totally other plans.

For example the OC elf mage I created to heal Lenya in one chapter...it was never planned that he should appear after the healing deed ever again. Well... now several chapters later he is with the group in the Deep Roads, got his own background story and is best friend with both of the Wardens...and one of my most favorite/important characters down there.

Also I certainly have not planned to have Oghren and Alistair talk about sex...lol Those things just happen and I'm amazed every time to witness that, For me THIS is the most fun part on writing.

Modifié par Merilsell, 05 décembre 2010 - 07:51 .