10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Sagacious Rage]

I thought Sqyub was funny They reviewed some of my stuff and it just seemed harmless. I hope it's not the same person.

[Elysium-Fic]

klarabella wrote...

Mahkara wrote...

LupusYondergirl wrote...
I suspect that the person behind that account is the same one that's been trolling peopleofthedas and tentparty as of late.

You're probably right.  This might actually be a rather good way to figure out who's the POT troll, seeing as they're always anon. 

*will now ponder whether the POT troll  has a pattern, or just really hated the child molestation fic, which was what seemed to generate the most anon comments*

There was a child molestation fic?

I've seen the troll a few times. It's one thing having an opinion, another one stalking people anonymous just to tell them how much you hate what they do. Very unpleasant person.

Over at the DATP.  I stopped reading after it became apparent where it was going and it was subsequently screened, but the fic itself pinged my troll-radar.

I suspect that the troll, or an accomplice of the troll--since there appear to be at least two--posted the fic with the intention of stirring up drama.

[Elysium-Fic]

Mahkara wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

I was just getting started over there when the incident happened. One of my very few 'deal killers' is non-consensual, which underage sex is. If that means I'm riding a high horse, then fetch me a step ladder, I'm climbing on.

As for the 'I Hate Your Wardens' character I'm not so sure there's an agenda other than a desire for attention. If the person really wanted to see certain writing stopped, they'd probably try to get the fiction in question banned for being MA or something. Instead, this is more like casting a line and seeing what fish get hooked.

Yeah, I'm 100% with you on the non-con.  To a certain extent, I think that it ought to be allowed as it's fiction.  But I'm sure not going to defend it.

I do think you may be right about Hate.  After all, most of the stories in question do have explicit sexual content, which technically means that they violate ffnet TOS.  Then again, Hate may just be really stupid and not understand that reporting all of the stories in question would be a lot easier than harassing the writers.

That wouldn't get him the attention he craves.

The reason I didn't report him when he faved my story last week was because I don't want to draw administrative attention to my story.  I highly encourage folks to exercise caution if they have material up which might get yanked if the admins decide to get shirty about the TOS.

[LupusYondergirl]

Elysium-Fic wrote...
The reason I didn't report him when he faved my story last week was because I don't want to draw administrative attention to my story.  I highly encourage folks to exercise caution if they have material up which might get yanked if the admins decide to get shirty about the TOS.

Same, exactly.

[Elysium-Fic]

ILU.  You know this, right?

Miri1984 wrote...

 This is what the person is doing.

Seriously. I have a few things to say about this. No matter what originally annoyed this person, and I know that there were a few things that could well have legitimately done so, NOTHING excuses the behaviour that I've been seeing from them since.

1. There are channels they can follow if any fiction offends them. FF.net has a reporting system. There are moderators on the communities that have been affected. There are ways of contacting the authors privately. Publicly ridiculing people or listing them in "hate lists" is cyber-bullying, or even stalking, and it's disgusting.
2. It's pretty obvious that Tent Party, and to a lesser extent, POT are skewed towards the heavier, darker, kinkier side of this fandom. I love those two communities, but I absolutely know that they're not everyone's cup of tea. There's an easy way to not be offended by stuff that is written and posted there. DON'T GO THERE AT ALL.
3. Some authors write dark stuff. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY ENDORSE IT. If you don't like reading it, DON'T. If you think it contravenes the rules of a community REPORT IT. (In the case of the Tent Party fic - it was brought to the attention of a mod and THE RULES WERE CHANGED - proper channels were followed, and the problem, therefore, was over).
4. If you know an author has a penchant for writing fics you don't like, WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU READING THEM?

*rant mode off*

You've just listed the reasons why PoT is such a fabulous and dynamic community.

PoT is likely to welcome fluff as smut, het as slash, kink as vanilla.  Which makes it an ideal place for anyone whose mind is open and accepting of "different strokes for different folks" philosophy.

If someone is narrow minded or unable to accept that what doesn't work for you does work for some people, or that your faves may not be someone else's faves, then naturally it's not a good fit.  Which, again, is why the comm is so wonderful.  By it's very nature it filters out the less tolerant.

Anyone who is interested in seeing the mods, or the other members, jump on moral high-horses and wag their fingers at others left, right, and center would be in for a disappointment, of course.

Modifié par Elysium-Fic, 25 janvier 2011 - 08:44 .

[Elysium-Fic]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Elysium-Fic wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

So, I got a hate fave on ffnet by someone named I Hate Your Warden. On a story that doesn't have a Warden in it. You'd think if you were going to flame someone you'd make yourself out to be less of a moron.

Oh, I'm not alone then.  Yay!

Nope...  We should get matching hats!

We cn haz clubhouse, plz?

[Prisoner24601]

Miri1984 wrote...

 This is what the person is doing.

Seriously. I have a few things to say about this. No matter what originally annoyed this person, and I know that there were a few things that could well have legitimately done so, NOTHING excuses the behaviour that I've been seeing from them since.

1. There are channels they can follow if any fiction offends them. FF.net has a reporting system. There are moderators on the communities that have been affected. There are ways of contacting the authors privately. Publicly ridiculing people or listing them in "hate lists" is cyber-bullying, or even stalking, and it's disgusting.
2. It's pretty obvious that Tent Party, and to a lesser extent, POT are skewed towards the heavier, darker, kinkier side of this fandom. I love those two communities, but I absolutely know that they're not everyone's cup of tea. There's an easy way to not be offended by stuff that is written and posted there. DON'T GO THERE AT ALL.
3. Some authors write dark stuff. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY ENDORSE IT. If you don't like reading it, DON'T. If you think it contravenes the rules of a community REPORT IT. (In the case of the Tent Party fic - it was brought to the attention of a mod and THE RULES WERE CHANGED - proper channels were followed, and the problem, therefore, was over).
4. If you know an author has a penchant for writing fics you don't like, WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU READING THEM?

*rant mode off*

I don't endorse what this obnoxious troll (or trolls or whatever) is doing and I certainly don't defend what this person is doing at all.  And I agree that if you find something offensive, there's better ways of handling it than by giving free publicity and attention to the people who you say you hate.  I mean, really, it's just dumb. 

But I have to disagree with you about PoT and a lot of the fics posted.  I get that just because someone writes something doesn't mean they endorse it.  But from the misogynistic comments I've seen over and over, the constant character bashing, and other tasteless stuff, I have to disagree that that's what's giong on here.  There are a lot of stories over there that are deeply disrespectful and flat out sexist against both men and women.  And hiding behind YKINMK or warnings or the idea of "don't like, don't read" does not make writing those things okay or give people a free pass to never be called on it when they write offensive things.

But like I've said, it's not the place for me.  And the place to call them on it is not there, as it's against the rules. It's their sandbox and I'll follow their rules, which I always have.  I enjoyed the sandbox for awhile, liked a lot of the things posted and loved the discussion, but that community is not for me. 

[mousestalker]

I like reading adult discussion about sensitive topics. This discussion has been gratifying in that regard. Keep up the good work!

[Elysium-Fic]

Sagacious Rage wrote...

I'd like to know how Sqyub ended up on that list. Talk about random.

Well, Sqyub at ff.net is bitter_underpants from DW, as evidenced by the fact that the story, also titled "Sqyub" was posted in both places, under different names.

And bitter_underpants is at least one of the anonymous trolls from my journal (quite possibly two, as two of the IP addresses of the anons came from the same area, but different ISPs, one of which was dial-up only.)  This is 100% certain because after I closed my journal to anon comments, bitter_underpants posted from its user name, using the exact same IP address as the anon troll who claimed it didn't have a DW account in response to my story "Initiative."

So, if I_Hate_Your_Warden is the PoT troll, it's possible the reason Sqyub is on there is so it can give itself a few more self-referential ego-wanks, or possibly to try to throw folks off the trail.

[Sagacious Rage]

Another weird one on that list is Milulu. I mean, everybody else updated in the last week, so it could just be the person scrolling through the first few pages and adding fics that bug them. But Milulu's story hasn't been updated since September, and as far as I know she never promoted it on LiveJournal or DreamWidth.

[Creature 1]

Elysium-Fic wrote...
You've just listed the reasons why PoT is such a fabulous and dynamic community.

PoT is likely to welcome fluff as smut, het as slash, kink as vanilla.  Which makes it an ideal place for anyone whose mind is open and accepting of "different strokes for different folks" philosophy.

If someone is narrow minded or unable to accept that what doesn't work for you does work for some people, or that your faves may not be someone else's faves, then naturally it's not a good fit.  Which, again, is why the comm is so wonderful.  By it's very nature it filters out the less tolerant.

That would be your way of expressing it.  Another way of expressing it is to say that PoT has no standards for posting.  Not only does PoT have no standards, they are actively hostile towards those who do have some standards, like, oh, disliking child pornography--strangely, most people are "intolerant" of that!  This means that PoT is filtering out the majority of the DA community (as you can tell from the last couple pages) to keep only the extremes, like, well, the pedophiles.  That's just not my idea of enjoyable company.  

[Elysium-Fic]

Creature 1 wrote...
Not only does PoT have no standards, they are actively hostile towards those who do have some standards, like, oh, disliking child pornography--strangely, most people are "intolerant" of that!

Hmm, strange.  At no point in that thread was ANYONE hostile toward the people expressing their discomfort with that fic.  Everyone agreed it should have been warned about and was peaceful about doing it.

The only ones who got hostile were the finger-waggers, who were conveniently anonymous, of course.  Because they're SO VERY MORALLY UPRIGHT in their beliefs about what is and isn't acceptable in fiction... but they aren't firm enough in their convictions to put their names to those convictions.

Funny how that works.

Modifié par Elysium-Fic, 25 janvier 2011 - 08:51 .

[Scary Lady]

I don't often say anything on these boards, but  there are some things being said are perhaps a little misleading, and it worries me.  So here's my sixpenn'orth:

1.  No-one on DATP asked for childporn.  There was no childporn prompt.  That fic was posted in response to a fairly general prompt asking for dark stuff, which received multiple fills.  (Hell, I filled it myself, with a fic about Cailan wanking over an Alistair fantasy).  Therefore the fill that included child sex was purely the choice of the author and was unsolicited.

2. YKINMK is, in my opinion, intrinsic to the ethic of PoT and DATP.  It's what makes the comm inclusive and comfortable for a wide range of people.  Personally, I'm not at all comfortable with non-con, but I would never judge a writer for approaching it, for one simple reason - writing difficult topics stretches our abilities as writers.  Tent-party prompts are not always about what we find kinky.  They are ideas that occur to us that may offer the comm members an opportunity to attempt something new or difficult.  Certainly most of my prompts are like that.

3.  Some people were shocked that some of the regular DATP members didn't make this face  over the inclusion of a child sex fill.  Well, see no2 above.  We were ALL distressed that the fill didn't contain appropriate warnings, and I believe that was why the mods screened it.  But we don't judge writers for trying to write difficult topics.  It's part of our craft to attempt such things. 

I have always found both PoT and DATP to be supportive environments for developing DA writers and artists (and great fun to be a part of) but yes, you have to be fairly robust to cope with some of the fics.  Provided they are all appropriately marked with warnings, I don't see that to be a problem to anyone... unless ofc they like to read dark things purely so that they can be outraged by them and scream blue murder. It seems to me that someone of that type is making a series of concerted attempts to destroy the reputation of both communites.

[Creature 1]

Elysium-Fic wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...
Not only does PoT have no standards, they are actively hostile towards those who do have some standards, like, oh, disliking child pornography--strangely, most people are "intolerant" of that!

Hmm, strange.  At no point in that thread was ANYONE hostile toward the people expressing their discomfort with that fic.  Everyone agreed it should have been warned about and was peaceful about doing it.

Odd.  You remember writing your previous post I replied to?  It had hostility written all over it.  Of course it was the ****y passive-aggressive type girls tend to master in junior high, but that doesn't mean it's not hostile, just subtle.  The implication is that anyone objecting to posting graphic child rape as ****** material is just judgmental, code for "a backward, unimaginative type who probably thinks marriage should be between one man and one woman and sex should be missionary position only, no birth control".  Whatever, I don't post at PoT because, as I said, I don't consider myself part of that community.  And that's because the community standards seem frankly insane.  

The only ones who got hostile were the finger-waggers, who were conveniently anonymous, of course.  Because they're SO VERY MORALLY UPRIGHT in their beliefs about what is and isn't acceptable in fiction... but they aren't firm enough in their convictions to put their names to those convictions.

Funny how that works.

I never posted over there, but I'm here right now, with my name attached.  If you would like to loose the flying monkeys I'm Charnia over at LJ, FF.net, and AO3.  Go wild. 

[Elysium-Fic]

Creature 1 wrote...

Elysium-Fic wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...
Not only does PoT have no standards, they are actively hostile towards those who do have some standards, like, oh, disliking child pornography--strangely, most people are "intolerant" of that!

Hmm, strange.  At no point in that thread was ANYONE hostile toward the people expressing their discomfort with that fic.  Everyone agreed it should have been warned about and was peaceful about doing it.

Odd.  You remember writing your previous post I replied to?  It had hostility written all over it. 

I was simply stating the reasons I love the comm, no more and no less.  Which I think it important considering the amount of comm-dissing being done.  Perhaps readers might like to know its good points, yes?  In the interest of presenting the whole picture?  Or would you prefer a biased, one-sided portrait instead?

Once again, the one being hostile is, interestingly enough, the one accusing others of hostility.

I never posted
over there, but I'm here right now, with my name attached.  If you
would like to loose the flying monkeys I'm Charnia over at LJ, FF.net,
and AO3.  Go wild. 

I don't see why you think I have any reason to care who you are or where you post.  You made a patently false claim about who was being hostile to whom, and I corrected it.  That right there is pretty much the end of my interest in interacting with you.

Modifié par Elysium-Fic, 25 janvier 2011 - 09:32 .

[soignee]

Like creature above, I'll put my face/name to an opinion.



I'll admit I left the dreamwidth communities over the child porn issue. I did not leave anon comments, nor did I slam doors as I left as, well- LOL to that.



There has to be a line in the sand, especially in a community designed around fapbait and kinkmeme fills. Child porn surely is one of those so clearly etched in "how about no," surely?

[Elysium-Fic]

soignee wrote...

There has to be a line in the sand, especially in a community designed around fapbait and kinkmeme fills. Child porn surely is one of those so clearly etched in "how about no," surely?

That line was subsequently drawn by the moderators, in fact.  The complaint being made seems to be that it wasn't drawn with sufficient finger-wagging.

[Sialater]

soignee wrote...

Like creature above, I'll put my face/name to an opinion.

I'll admit I left the dreamwidth communities over the child porn issue. I did not leave anon comments, nor did I slam doors as I left as, well- LOL to that.

There has to be a line in the sand, especially in a community designed around fapbait and kinkmeme fills. Child porn surely is one of those so clearly etched in "how about no," surely?

This.  And no... there's no reason to "stretch your abilities" as a writer to write that. 

[Mahkara]

Elysium-Fic wrote...

That line was subsequently drawn by the moderators, in fact.  The complaint being made seems to be that it wasn't drawn with sufficient finger-wagging.

I think that some of the concern as well was about how some of the comm members who frequently post defended the child porn, or said that the only thing *wrong* with it was that there wasn't a warning.

[Creature 1]

Elysium-Fic wrote...

soignee wrote...

There has to be a line in the sand, especially in a community designed around fapbait and kinkmeme fills. Child porn surely is one of those so clearly etched in "how about no," surely?

That line was subsequently drawn by the moderators, in fact.  The complaint being made seems to be that it wasn't drawn with sufficient finger-wagging.

The line was drawn because the mods seemed to realize, "Hmm, we could face legal trouble over this", not because the mods and the community are actually opposed to the sexual exploitation of children.  It was drawn in a way that made it clear that the mods thought people complaining over posting child pornography were annoying busy-bodies, and inconveniencing everyone with their irrational complaints.  And it was drawn in such a way that it really makes little difference--now instead of writing stories in which pre-pubescent children are raped, the pedophiles can write stories in which barely-pubescent children are raped! 

[Scary Lady]

Creature 1 wrote...

PoT is filtering out the majority of the DA community (as you can tell from the last couple pages) to keep only the extremes, like, well, the pedophiles.  That's just not my idea of enjoyable company.  

I've counted three people (including yourself) in this discussion who have expressed any discomfort with the content of PoT.  If that represents 'the majority of the DA community' then the community is far smaller than I would have thought possible.

Not every environment suits everyone, and that's to be expected.  But to suggest that those who do enjoy the community are all such social outcasts... really, is that truly what you wish to say?  Because it's really very impolite to those of us who are members.

[Creature 1]

Elysium-Fic wrote...

I don't see why you think I have any reason to care who you are or where you post.  You made a patently false claim about who was being hostile to whom, and I corrected it.  That right there is pretty much the end of my interest in interacting with you.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]  You complained people weren't saying their names.  You basically asked. 

[Creature 1]

Scary Lady wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

PoT is filtering out the majority of the DA community (as you can tell from the last couple pages) to keep only the extremes, like, well, the pedophiles.  That's just not my idea of enjoyable company.  

I've counted three people (including yourself) in this discussion who have expressed any discomfort with the content of PoT.  If that represents 'the majority of the DA community' then the community is far smaller than I would have thought possible.

There were a few more than that, plus others I've talked to.  And no one who isn't a PoT regular has leaped to their defense by saying, "Hey, people should post child porn, what's wrong with that?"  Everyone who has commented on it at all has been .

Not every environment suits everyone, and that's to be expected.  But to suggest that those who do enjoy the community are all such social outcasts... really, is that truly what you wish to say?  Because it's really very impolite to those of us who are members.

I know a couple people who are part of the community, are not really pleased by the recent kerfuffle, but I think are still part of the community.  That baffles me, but whatever.  If they had been part of the contingent supporting the anon who started all of this, I'm afraid they would no longer be considered among my friends.  You were part of that contingent.  You may consider me "impolite" for saying you were most definitely absolutely in the wrong if you wish. 

[mousestalker]

I try to live by the motto WWJAD? I'm pretty sure Jane Austen would not write certain sorts of fiction. (I feel confident she'd be all over slash, though).



On a related note, if you could write like someone, who would you like to emulate?

[Daigowedd]

Quick someone cite the First Ammendment* as to why it's not only okay to write child porn snuff fic but is your god-given rights or whatever! How dare people take offence to child rape omg opression!

(*Cos, the internet is totally Amerikka, y'know?)

Modifié par Daigowedd, 25 janvier 2011 - 10:00 .