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[jackkel dragon]

Corker wrote...

@mousestalker, she identifies herself as "Ariane of Solan's clan." Makes me wonder if 'Mahariel' was the name of the daddy Keeper before Marethari, in the DE origin.

I don't know where I saw it, but apparently the clan names are based on Dalish/Arlathan noble houses (can't remember which.) If my hazy memory is correct, Solan was the keeper of Ariane's clan. So unless they were named after the clan name (Solan Solan?) I don't think that's the clan name.

[Corker]

I think you're right that Solan is the Keeper and that the Dalish descend from the noble houses of the Dales, but it never occurred to me that there were 'clan names' based on those houses. You'd *think* there would be, but... I can't recall Zathrian's clan being referred to as anything other than "Zathrian's clan" or "Zathrian's people" either.

[Glorfindel709]

"Dalish elves lead nomadic lives, wandering throughout Thedas. The clans date back to the ruling clans of the Dales and the Dalish are the descendants of the ruling houses of their destroyed homeland." <-- from the Wiki.

[mousestalker]

It could be both. Some families have names that recur. So the clan name could be Solan and the Keeper's name could be Solan as well.

[maxernst]

So the implication is that Dalish society split along class lines with the aristocracy becoming nomads and the commoners becoming servants, slaves and cheap labor for the humans. That doesn't sound like something that would organically happen by choice. Did Orlais figure that the peasant elves would be docile and submissive, so they banished the upper classes?

[Corker]

My going theory was that the upper class were the only ones with the resources to run away. I'd assume some of their household servants went with them, but mostly family... and maybe some of the lower classes who thought they could scrounge a living on the run went. But that mostly, the lower classes just didn't have the supplies and the gear to suddenly leave their homes - kind of like the city elves still don't.



We also don't know what the elven nation in the Dales was like. Maybe the humans were better than the old elven upper class... (I seem to recall that the Christians of North Africa were happy to see the conquering Muslims, because they gave them less crap over their divergent religious thinking than Rome did...)

[maxernst]

Corker wrote...

We also don't know what the elven nation in the Dales was like. Maybe the humans were better than the old elven upper class... (I seem to recall that the Christians of North Africa were happy to see the conquering Muslims, because they gave them less crap over their divergent religious thinking than Rome did...)

That's an interesting point that I hadn't considered.  I don't suppose the Casteless would necessarily be unhappy to see an Exalted March overrun Orzammar if you put Harrowmont on the throne.

[Sarah1281]

Have the Amell mage (who will also be a friend) take part in his escape and she gets conscripted into the Wardens by Duncan but doesn't survive either the Joining or the Battle

Jowan cannot escape without an Amell or Surana helping him. He always escapes no matter what origin you played. It stands to reason that if you had the Surana at Ostagar and the Amell helping Jowan that there's a good chance Duncan isn't there to recruit them and so they're locked up like Lily.

[Glorfindel709]

The Elf Mage (who is a Mahariel >.> <.<) isn't at Ostagar with the Grey Wardens (initially) he's been sent as part of the delegation of mages to assist the Kings' Army. Duncan was at the Mages Tower for the two reasons of A) Getting more mages for the army and looking for a potential recruit [at least according to dialogue as I read it in the Magi Origin] so there's no reason why he couldnt be there...



I just dont really have faith in myself to do a good job characterizing multiple Origin wardens like say Raonar does, Not to say that some companions may not go through the Joining (because really, I have trouble believing that none of them got tainted...)

[Raonar]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

The Elf Mage (who is a Mahariel >.> isn't at Ostagar with the Grey Wardens (initially) he's been sent as
part of the delegation of mages to assist the Kings' Army. Duncan was at
the Mages Tower for the two reasons of A) Getting more mages for the
army and looking for a potential recruit [at least according to
dialogue as I read it in the Magi Origin] so there's no reason why he
couldnt be there...

Not to say that some companions may not go through the Joining (because really, I have trouble believing that none of them got tainted...)

The mages sent to assist the army actually get there well before Duncan and his recruit does.

Andit was already said that Bioware did originally intend for companions to possibly get tainted and have to go through the Joining along with Loghain. I'll, of course, avoid most of the pitfalls about that by not having most of them come into the deep roads.

Modifié par Raonar, 12 février 2011 - 10:45 .

[Sarah1281]

The Elf Mage (who is a Mahariel >.> <.<) isn't at Ostagar with the Grey Wardens (initially) he's been sent as part of the delegation of mages to assist the Kings' Army. Duncan was at the Mages Tower for the two reasons of A) Getting more mages for the army and looking for a potential recruit [at least according to dialogue as I read it in the Magi Origin] so there's no reason why he couldnt be there...

Mahariel then. There's no reason why Duncan COULDN'T just happen to be there but what would be the point if the Amell weren't going to actually be a GW? Maybe Duncan was checking out the mirror as per the DE origin and since Tamlen is long gone and the DE wasn't there, he never found his recruit.



Of course, it's just a personal preference of mine that characters that can survive the Joining are ALWAYS able to survive the Joining and not in some stories randomly choke like Daveth.

[DreGregoire]

This may have been asked before but is it really realistic to be able to travel from redcliff to the circle tower (actually the dock at lake) in about a day? And is that a day or 24 hours or what? If so what kind of boat or ship? Do you think there are regular shipping routes on the lake going to different locals? Heh, I said I wasn't going to write today but I've been sitting here figuring out exactly how far and how long it will take Duncan and Aonghas to get to Ostagar with a stop at Lake Cal, a boat to redcliff (to have that convo between Eamon and Duncan) and then onwards to ostagar.

[Glorfindel709]

Maybe he had gone with the intention of recruiting the Mahariel mage but he had already been sent to Ostagar due to miscommunication (the messenger getting ambushed by bandits or some such nonsense.)



Urgh, I just kind of like the idea of the Mage getting sent to Ostagar to help the battle and using that to explore how the Chantry stopped the true effectiveness of the mages from being explored in battle due to their fear and belief that all mages are abominations waiting to happen. I dunno, it's not like something Im set on, I just thought it would be interesting and original *shrugs* I dont want people to read my story and go "Oh joy, two chapters of the exact same **** that I played through with changes in dialogue and drama. Goodie."

[Glorfindel709]

@DreGregoire - There are ships in the lake at Redcliffe, I assume that if the winds are right they could make it up the lake by boat in one or two days. On foot, I think it would take a bit longer.... especially as for some reason whenever I travel the map insists on going around the west side of Calenhad to get there >.<

[DreGregoire]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

@DreGregoire - There are ships in the lake at Redcliffe, I assume that if the winds are right they could make it up the lake by boat in one or two days. On foot, I think it would take a bit longer.... especially as for some reason whenever I travel the map insists on going around the west side of Calenhad to get there >.<

What?! I'm making Duncan row. hahah just kidding.

[Glorfindel709]

Something tells me I need to read your story... Duncan O.O

[DreGregoire]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Something tells me I need to read your story... Duncan O.O

so far it's;
Duncan 1 :  Aonghas 0

Edit: the first round ended in a tie haha, Duncan won the second round *winks*

Edit 2: Hmmm maybe Duncan won the first round too but Aonghas wouldn't admit to that. LOL

Modifié par DreGregoire, 12 février 2011 - 11:34 .

[Glorfindel709]

In which story will I find this record?

[DreGregoire]

If you click on the Aonghas Cousland, the Warrior Mage and read chapter 5 part one and chapter 6 part one you'll see those two and can make your own determination. LOL (link in my sig)

Modifié par DreGregoire, 12 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[inquartata02]

@Glor: it sounds interesting. Go with it.

[Sarah1281]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Maybe he had gone with the intention of recruiting the Mahariel mage but he had already been sent to Ostagar due to miscommunication (the messenger getting ambushed by bandits or some such nonsense.)

Urgh, I just kind of like the idea of the Mage getting sent to Ostagar to help the battle and using that to explore how the Chantry stopped the true effectiveness of the mages from being explored in battle due to their fear and belief that all mages are abominations waiting to happen. I dunno, it's not like something Im set on, I just thought it would be interesting and original *shrugs* I dont want people to read my story and go "Oh joy, two chapters of the exact same **** that I played through with changes in dialogue and drama. Goodie."

I get that, I just don't understand what the narrative purpose of bringing Amell along to die is. Would Amell get a chance to tell Mahariel about Jowan? I thought Mahariel was finding out at Redcliffe.

[Glorfindel709]

Oh I didnt want to bring Amell, but I dont know how Jowan would have managed the escape without the help of a Harrowed mage. I guess I could just have one of their developed friends from the early chapters who got harrowed shortly after Mahariel do it and get sent to Aeonar with Lily or runs out with Jowan to try and live as an apostate....

[DreGregoire]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Oh I didnt want to bring Amell, but I dont know how Jowan would have managed the escape without the help of a Harrowed mage. I guess I could just have one of their developed friends from the early chapters who got harrowed shortly after Mahariel do it and get sent to Aeonar with Lily or runs out with Jowan to try and live as an apostate....

I figure there are two options depending on how you played it. If you played it as being ordered by Irving to go along with Jowan then you were more likely just reprimanded. If you played it as helping on your own I figure without Duncan there to recruit you, you could end up locked up or even executed, but I'm not sure Irving wouldn't have tried to stop an execution because the mage is suppose to be exceptional. Might be a huge fight between mages and chantry over it.

Edit : In my Aonghas story there was no Duncan, but because Irving forced Aonghas to help Jowan and Lily, he wasn't in as much trouble (I guess) and he had been promised to the couslands already by Irving and the Chantry.

Edit 2: So this Amell could have escaped with Jowan I suppose; although, with his phylactery still being held by the chantry he could be a death sentence to Jowan.  *shrugs*

Modifié par DreGregoire, 13 février 2011 - 12:19 .

[Sarah1281]

Or Amell could have helped Jowan escape and all of that played out the same way it did in the mage origin but Duncan wasn't there. That's how it seems to have played out in all non-mage origins anyway.

[Glorfindel709]

Here's a possibility for events to be planned out.

A) After his Harrowing, Mahariel begins to plan his escape.
During one of the times they Mages are allowed outside to get some fresh air and sunlight, he makes a break for it but that crazy Mage apprentice who hates her magic (cant remember her name, think it starts with a K) puts a particularly powerful paralyze on him as he manages to start getting away on Kesters' boat.[I kind of like the irony that someone who so hates their magic could be rather gifted in it if they tried]
C) Retrieved and thoroughly scolded, especially since (as you discover in the preceding chapters) Mahariel has been doing the absolute best to be trusted by the Templars, even spending a few years helping the training of Templar recruits in dealing with Mage powers and practicing their magic dispelling powers in exchange for more physical fitness time/training and being taught some more sword work to augment what he learned in the Circles' Weapon class (mentioned in one of the notes you find in the Broken Circle quest, I figure it would serve as an interesting way for him to start learning the Sword/Staff fighting style). As punishment, Irving is forced to put him in the lock up confinement for a few months. (There he meets Anders which sets the stage for some Awakening stuff)
D)After a month or two, Irving and Greagoir come down to Confinement arguing and Greagoir reluctantly informs Mahariel that he's been selected to go with a contingent of mages to aid the King against a Darkspawn incursion. He is also warned that the Templars will have the contingents phylacteries and if they try to escape, they'll be hunted down and killed.
E) He is allowed to pack his things and say his goodbyes, in which Jowan hints that he's nervous about something and he's scared. Also finds out that another one of his friends went through his Harrowing successfully (perhaps Amell, perhaps someone else).
F) When he gets to Redcliffe and talks to Jowan, he finds out that they were going to try and force him through the Rite of Tranquility because they had seen him practicing Blood Magic and the as of yet unnamed friend tried to help him and Lily escape, and was considering running himself and taking his chances as an apostate. They got caught, Lily  and unnamed mage, probably Amell(horrified as well by the use of Blood Magic), are taken to Aeonar and Jowan got away.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 13 février 2011 - 12:27 .